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411 Fact or Fiction MMA: Is BJ Penn The Biggest Underachiever in MMA?

August 3, 2016 | Posted by Lorenzo Vasquez

Welcome back to another edition of 411 Fact or Fiction MMA! I’m your host, Lorenzo Vasquez III, and it’s my pleasure to bring you the 411 on the fact and the fiction in this sport we call mixed martial arts. Thank you for your votes and comments last week. It is very much appreciated. And what a year we’ve had so far. Seven title changes in seven months! The latest victim is none other than, Robbie Lawler, who lost his welterweight title to Tyron Woodley over the weekend. We’ll have more that later. Let’s get back on track. Last week, Scott Kuczhowski locked horns with Jon Butterfield, and what a back-and-forth battle that turned out to be. Both men held the lead several times while discussing subjects like Conor McGregor’s legacy and UFC 202, Zach Light’s claims against Bellator, and Mark Hunt spearheading the moment for a fighter’s union in addition to other subjects. When the dust settled, it was Jon who was left standing with the 15-to-13 victory. Congratulations Jon and thank you both for the great effort.

This week, Jeffery Harris and Robert Practor will try to topple one another as they dive into subjects like Nate Diaz bulking up ahead of his rematch with Conor McGregor, whether or not Tyron Woodley ended the most exciting welterweight title run, Kevin Ferguson Jr. signing with Bellator MMA, and much more! So, push everything aside and strap in because it’s time for another round of, 411 Fact or Fiction MMA! Let get the ball rolling…

TALE OF THE TAPE
RED CORNER
Jeffrey “The Vile One” Harris
Contributor, Various 411 Zones
0-0-1

VS

BLUE CORNER
Robert Practor
Contributor, 411 Wrestling Zone
1-0-0


By all appearances, Nate Diaz is bulking up for his rematch with Conor McGregor at UFC 202; and, it is somewhat concerning considering fighters who bulk-up usually experience diminished cardio and endurance.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION I’m not at all concerned about Nate Diaz bulking up. I’m more concerned about what Conor McGregor is going to do if he loses again. This fight happening at welterweight makes absolutely no sense to me; especially, when McGregor is still holding the featherweight title, when it looks like he can’t safely make that weight anymore. Cardio has never really been one of Diaz’s problem areas. Not to mention, it looks like McGregor is also bulking up and packing on muscle for this fight camp. Considering how his first fight went, I’m not sure if that’s the best idea for him either. I’m predicting another win for Diaz, regardless of bulk.

Robert Practor: FICTION I’ll say Fiction because I don’t think Nate Diaz’ cardio will be what decides whether he wins or not. If Conor McGregor is able to avoid Diaz’ power and dangerous jiu-jitsu for several rounds, he is likely to win by outpointing the younger Diaz brother. If Diaz is going to win, I see it playing out similarly to his victory in the first fight, catching him with a power blow or submission in the first two rounds. So with that being said, I see these being the two possible scenarios, regardless of whether Diaz’ cardio and endurance is at his optimal level.


Dana White is correct; BJ Penn is, to this date, the biggest underachiever in mixed martial arts; and, had he been motivated, he would likely have been on par with fighters like George St-Pierre, Anderson Silva, and Jon Jones.

Jeffrey Harris: FACT I think the mistake BJ Penn made was trying to become a welterweight again after he lost the lightweight title to Frankie Edgar. He did lose the title in a questionable decision, but after that, you are always hearing concerning things about his training camp and how hard he’s training. BJ Penn would have hardcore legions of fans who would convince themselves that Penn has finally turned over a new leaf and is training the right way. However, it appears the only time he was really doing that was when he was lightweight champion and looked nearly unbeatable. Now credit to Penn, from 2003 to around 2010, he was probably the best lightweight fighter on the planet. However, considering how dominant he was when he became champion, and how untouchable he looked, had he not gotten rid of the Marinovich brothers, I wonder if he ever would’ve actually lost the belt in 2010. But considering how much Penn accomplished when he wasn’t motivated and really trying through a lot of chunks of his career, it makes you wonder what he could’ve done if he avoided those later welterweight runs or that awful display at featherweight.

Robert Practor: FICTION I do not buy the narrative that BJ Penn is the biggest underachiever in Mixed Martial Arts. Penn is one of only two men in the history of the UFC to hold championships in two divisions, those being Lightweight and Welterweight. How can someone be an underachiever while doing something only one other man has ever done in the UFC? Yes, some people like to dream about Penn going on an Anderson Silva/GSP type run of dominance, but just because he didn’t rattle off 9 title defenses in a row it doesn’t mean he’s an underachiever. I think BJ Penn had a top 10 all-time UFC career with some highlight reel finishes, wins over several top names, and the aforementioned two-divisional champion achievement, so that is why I have to go Fiction here.


Six months of training in mixed martial arts would be an insufficient amount of time for Amir Khan to be able to defeat Conor McGregor in a professional MMA bout.

Jeffrey Harris: FACT It’s very simple. In an MMA fight, a veteran MMA fighter will beat the veteran boxer under MMA rules. In a boxing match, the experienced boxer will beat the MMA fighter. I don’t think Amir Khan training for six months in MMA would get him ready for a professional MMA debut against the likes of Conor McGregor. We can talk a lot about Holly Holm being a championship boxer and becoming UFC champion, knocking off Ronda Rousey. However, Holm didn’t walk into the sport yesterday. She had already been training MMA for years and had MMA fights. Not only that, she had gone beyond boxing already and fought in amateur and professional kickboxing as well. She was already training in multiple disciplines outside boxing, which is important to make the transition to MMA.

Robert Practor: FACT 100% correct. I’m sorry, but Conor McGregor is (at the least) a top 5 Mixed Martial Arts Featherweight. Give Amir Khan (or any boxer for that matter) six months of MMA training and I’m not so sure I’d even consider him likely to be able to defeat someone like Jeremy Stephens or Dennis Bermudez. Let’s let boxers be boxers and mixed martial artists be mixed martial artists.


SWITCH!

“Baby Slice” Kevin Ferguson Jr., would have done himself a favor to stay in the smaller leagues and build-up himself, and his experience and record, before signing with a promotion like Bellator MMA.

Robert Practor: FACT I say Fact, but I suppose it depends on what his end game is, if he even has one (maybe he is just doing this for a one-off payday and some sort of closure in his own way). This feels like such a publicity stunt by Bellator (go figure) and I don’t see it working out well for anyone. I agree that “Baby Slice” could have benefited from taking part in at least a couple official MMA fights, earning some experience, and building some momentum behind his name and journey before being under the “bright” lights of Bellator on Spike TV. Who knows, he could end up being an enigma but my personal feeling is that there’s not much in the way of realistic opportunities to go up from here with this being his starting point.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION I thought about putting FACT here, but then I remembered, it’s Bellator MMA we are talking about here. Let’s face it. Ever since Scott Coker became president of the company, Bellator has pretty much abandoned any pretense of being a legitimate MMA promotion. In February 2015 after he joined the company, Coker said to Bloody Elbow, “We’re like the fun league. We do fun fights.” Meaning sideshow freak show fights. Let’s be honest here. Kimbo Slice was never a serious MMA fighter. With Kevin Ferguson Jr., Bellator wants to capitalize off on the Kimbo Slice brand with his son. Obviously, they are going to give him strategic, careful matchup. Look who Kimbo Slice was matched up against in Bellator. And then after he failed a drug test for PEDs, look at how Bellator MMA almost immediately slotted him in for a fight three months later. I doubt Bellator MMA is going to throw Kevin Ferguson Jr. into the deep waters. They will be careful with him. And if he sinks or swims with whatever softball fights he gets, that’s on Kevin Ferguson Jr.


Karolina Kowalkiewicz has the striking technique and clinch game to give strawweight champion, Joanna Jedrzejczyk, her toughest fight on her feet.

Robert Practor: FACT I agree that Karolina Kowalkiewicz may be the most skilled striker of those we have seen UFC Strawweight Champion Joanna Jedrzejczyk face, so I say fact. I will go on to say, however, that I don’t feel she doesn’t have much of a chance against Joanna “Champion”.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION I won’t say toughest fight on the feet. Karolina Kowalkiewicz showed great cardio in her fight and win against Rose Namajunas. However, what really made the difference in the fight was the clinch work and the dirty boxing. Namajunas actually dominated most of the pure striking and stand-up in her fight with Kowalkiewicz. It was in the clinch game where she was able to make up the difference and slow Namajunas down. In terms of how they match up with pure stand-up and striking skills, I would rate Joanna Champion a lot higher. Jedrzejczyk is much faster, has much better combinations, and she’s great at fighting at distance. I see Kowalkiewicz as a very tough fight for Jedrzejczyk, but I wouldn’t say she’s the champ’s toughest fight on the feet to date.


Tyron Woodley ended, perhaps, the—although short—most exciting title run in UFC welterweight history when he stopped, via knockout, Robbie Lawler at UFC 201.

Robert Practor: FACT I’m not sure if there’s ever been a man who can stake claim to (arguably) three years in a row of Fight of the Year contenders, like Robbie Lawler had in his wars against Johny Hendricks, Rory MacDonald, and Carlos Condit. I feel we will look back with fondness on this journey Robbie Lawler went on 15 years into his career. While, the UFC Welterweight title runs by Matt Hughes and Georges St-Pierre may end up just as (or even more) memorable for various reasons, I won’t debate the idea that Robbie Lawler’s Welterweight title run (albeit short) was the most exciting in the division’s history.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION I would maybe put that honor toward the likes of BJ Penn, or Georges St. Pierre, when they beat Matt Hughes to win the UFC welterweight title. Lawler was a great champion, and he had some great title match-ups, but it was hardly the most exciting UFC welterweight title run in history. It was many years ago, but I think many people have already forgotten that Matt Hughes was one of the best fighters and champions on the planet when he was on top, and he produced some amazing performances as well. I would say he’s right behind GSP as the second greatest UFC welterweight champion of all time. He’s arguably one of the greatest fighters to ever step foot inside the Octagon.


So who won? Did Jeffrey knock Robert out of his boots? Or, did Robert run over Jeffrey with ease? You’ve got until midnight eastern on Saturday to vote, so make sure you make your voice heard!


And that’s it for today, but as always, we’ll be back next week with another contest! And please, be sure to vote!

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