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411 Fact or Fiction MMA: Is Brock Lesnar a Top Ten Heavyweight?

July 13, 2016 | Posted by Lorenzo Vasquez

Welcome back to another edition of 411 Fact or Fiction MMA! I’m your host, Lorenzo Vasquez III, and thank you for your comments and votes last week. It is always appreciated and it is my pleasure to bring you the fact and the fiction of the wild and whacky sport that is mixed martial arts. Speaking of wild and whacky, what week we had last week! We had several titles change hands, Jose Aldo made sure to remind us how great of a fighter he is, Brock Lesnar was awarded big dividends for his big gamble, and Jon Jones did what he does best, disappoint everyone. An unbelievable week in my book, and oh yea, the UFC has officially been sold! Is it for the betterment of the sport? We’ll touch base with that subject next week, but now it’s time to move on to what you’re really here for.

Last week, due to some technical glitches, I stepped in for Robert Winfree to lock horns with Dino Zucconi. We tussled over subjects like number one contenders not getting title shots, Brock Lesnar at UFC 205, and Jon Jones deciding Heavyweight was no longer an option, in addition to other subjects. Dino immediately took a big lead and never turned back. It seems dening Dan Frye a piece of his greatness was my downfall. As they say, it is what it is. Dino takes home a 23-to-14 victory. Thank you Dino for your exceptional work.

This week, the host of the 411 Ground and Pound Radio Show, Robert Winfree, takes on the returning Robert Practor in what should be great showing. They will tackle Jon Jones’ UFC 200 screw-up, Joanna Champion slicing through Claudia Gadelha, Brock Lesnar’s return to the top ten, and much more! So grab some grub, strap in, and get ready because it’s time for another round of, 411 Fact or Fiction MMA! Let’s get going…

TALE OF THE TAPE
RED CORNER
Robert “The Last Rider” Winfree
Contributor/Live Coverage Guru/Host, 411 MMA Zone/411 Ground and Pound Radio Show
1-0-0

VS

BLUE CORNER
Robert Practor
Contributor, 411 Wrestling Zone
0-0-0


Jon Jones career — already the biggest tragedy in MMA — will forever be tarnished regardless of whether or not he took a tainted supplement and returns after a suspension to continue his legendary run, due to the fact the USADA managed program has been in play for sometime and he should have been wise enough to double check what supplements he was ingesting.

Robert Winfree: FACT There are real issues with supplement industry that are going to start building as it pertains to MMA, but that really isn’t the only issue here because for a lot of people this is just the last straw for Jon Jones. Anything short of a total exoneration for Jones will cement the flaws with his legacy, and really even that won’t be enough for a lot of people. With Jones, it’s just been so many issues, one after the other after the other, with him that at this point he will never be able to escape the most terrible and tragic reminiscence in sports, “What if?”. We still talk about BJ Penn’s career in terms of unfulfilled potential or under achieving, Jones will surpass him in that respect in the future if he hasn’t already.

Robert Practor: FICTION Let me start by saying that, yes, Jon Jones has been a colossal screw up for a long time now, from multiple instances of driving while intoxicated, hit and run, his laughable one-day rehab stint, and now this drug test failure. I envision him using some sort of “tainted supplement” defense here and having the team and resources behind him to somewhat succeed in it, and ending up with a 6 month or 1 year suspension (similar to Yoel Romero). That being said, I chose FICTION in regards to his career being “forever tarnished” because fans and media have a tendency to forget or forgive these things. Look no further than Anderson Silva. Perhaps the greatest of all time, many thought it was all over for Silva and his legacy when he popped for multiple substances last year but all of that seems to have been mostly gone by now, even looking like a hero for stepping up at UFC 200 on two days’ notice to fight the Light Heavyweight champion of the world, surviving, and even giving us a glimmer of hope with his strikes to the champ late in the fight. Jon Jones can continue to screw up and that side of the narrative of perhaps the best Pound for Pound fighter in the world may continue, but I do not see this drug test failure as a permanent, forever-tarnishing cloud that will hang above his head for the rest of his career.


Although scored for strawweight champion Joanna Jedrzejczyk, the third round in the champion’s battle with Claudia Gadelha at The Ultimate Fighter Finale could have easily gone to Gadelha, and it wouldn’t have been surprising to see the Brazilian’s hand raised at the end of their five-round war.

Robert Winfree: FICTION Because Joanna got a universal 10-8 fourth round from the judges and won the fifth as well, the best case for Gadelha even if the third went to her was a draw in which case the title remains with the champion. The second and third rounds were close, three much more so than two, but even if the third had gone her way she couldn’t have taken the title away from Joanna based purely on how that fight went. That said, Gadelha made a very good account of herself and is still the second best strawweight in the world, she did better over the first three rounds in this fight than she did in their first fight and could wind up winning enough fights to force a third meeting with the champion.

Robert Practor: FICTION I completely disagree here and I’m not sure how this is even up for debate. All one has to do is look at the official judge’s scorecards for the fight and they will see that Joanna received 10-8 scores from all three judges in round 4 as well as a 10-8 score from one judge in round 5. Even if Gadelha won the third round 10-9 like she did the first two, we would have had scorecards of 46 (Claudia) – 47 (Joanna), 47-47, and 47-47. To answer the question, if Gadelha somehow got 10-9 scores from all three judges in round 3, we would have ended up not with Gadelha’s hand raised, rather we would have had a… Majority Draw. The rarest judgment in MMA. How crazy would that have been?


Taking into consideration Will Brooks’ performance at The Ultimate Fighter Finale and Eddie Alvarez’s stunning win at UFC Fight Night 90, it’s a safe bet that Brooks is not ready for a top five opponent in the UFC lightweight division, let alone a title shot against Alvarez.

Robert Winfree: FICTION The lightweight division is so insanely stacked with talent that I’m not convinced anyone ranked from say 10 to 20 or so wouldn’t be competitive with the top five of the division. Will Brooks took a fight on short notice against a tough and durable veteran of the sport, got a win against him, and got the first UFC win out of the way. Eddie Alvarez had a full training camp for his UFC debut and comprehensively lost to Donald Cerrone, he bounced back well and is now the champion but after his debut loss there were some questions about how he’d do against the bigger names on the big show. Brooks won his debut on short notice, and really the division is so full of talent that he could fight the top five and do well, or fight the top five and lose with a near equal chance of either outcome. I don’t think Brooks deserves a title shot right now, he beat an unranked fighter and at a minimum Khabib Nurmagomedov and Tony Ferguson are ahead of him in line, but given the stacked nature of the division I don’t think we can make too many conclusions right now about Brooks’ immediate future in the UFC.

Robert Practor: FACT Good on Will Brooks for beating a game Ross Pearson in his short-notice UFC debut, where the lights shine brightest. Many touted fighters have faltered in their UFC debut after heavy hype coming in, including Hector Lombard and the aforementioned Eddie Alvarez. But yeah, while it’s good for Brooks that he picked up the win, I agree that he is not ready for a top 5 UFC Lightweight yet. The top 5 fighters in the UFC Lightweight division would include fighters like Rafael dos Anjos, Khabib Nurmagomedov, and Tony Ferguson, and I think Brooks would be better served fighting someone in the 8-10 range of the rankings like Michael Chiesa, Beneil Dariush, or perhaps the best choice at this time, Michael Johnson.


SWITCH!

Sage Northcutt showed us in his win over Enrique Marin at UFC 200 that he is perhaps not yet ready for a top fifteen opponent and needs to develop wrestling and submission defense before continuing his climb up the ladder in the division notoriously filled with strong wrestlers at the top.

Robert Practor: FACT Sage Northcutt would get eaten alive by any of the top 15 fighters in his division. That’s not necessarily a knock against him, as the kid is only 20 years old. The UFC loves him and his clean-cut look, and after his loss to Bryan Barbarena back in January, I think they realize they need to take it slow with him to give him time to work on the aforementioned wrestling and submission defense.

Robert Winfree: FACT This is a conversation I’m surprised keeps coming up. Sage Northcutt is a young person, a young fighter, and is understandably green in many ways. He gave up spiderweb control twice in the second round to Marin, and really Marin should have finished that armbar in the second, but that’s a position he’s probably not terribly familiar with based purely on the time he’s been in the sport. There’s a lot of growth still to come for any fighter in his position. A lot has been made about him because of the UFC’s penchant for hyperbole and fans ascribing a lot of intentions from the UFC brass as it pertains to Northcutt. Northcutt is a very developing fighter, yes he needs to work on his wrestling and his jiu-jitsu defense but so do a lot of fighters. No one is seriously talking about Northcutt jumping into a top fifteen spot, or if they are they’re basically whistling Dixie as fans while the UFC is content to match him up with appropriate opponents.


Amanda Nunes’s dominating and quick win over Miesha Tate for the title spoiled the UFC’s plans for a potential Ronda Rousey return in 2016 or early 2017 to be a title fight against either Miesha Tate or Holly Holm. Indeed, Nunes’ title victory many have nailed the coffin on Rousey’s return.

Robert Practor: FICTION I do not think Amanda Nunes’ destruction of Miesha Tate has anything to do with when or whether Ronda Rousey returns to the UFC. If anything, it adds a new credible top name for us to envision her battling in the future. Rousey’s mindset and her future aspirations in regards to her Hollywood career and desire to rewrite the narrative of her MMA career is what will determine if she makes her return to the cage, not whether Amanda Nunes or Miesha Tate is the current champion.

Robert Winfree: FICTION I don’t think Miesha Tate plays much into Ronda Rousey’s plans at this point. Dana White has confirmed that when Rousey returns she’s getting a title shot, now Rousey matches up extremely well with Tate but as long as the champion isn’t Holly Holm I don’t think their identity plays a big part into Rousey’s decision making here. Plus if Rousey wants to fight Tate she’ll fight Tate, the UFC will go out of their way to accommodate her wishes. Now does Nunes vs. Rousey make less money than Rousey vs. either Tate or Holm? Yeah I’ll buy that, but it’ll still do gangbusters given Rousey’s star power and unless Rousey herself talks about her thought process on a possible return I’m just assuming the identity of a possible opponent won’t play too much into that decision.


Despite his underwhelming win over the No. 8 UFC heavyweight Mark Hunt, Brock Lesnar showed us that he is still a top ten — maybe top five — heavyweight in the UFC after a 5-year absence from the sport.

Robert Practore: FACT First off, I disagree with anyone claiming that Brock Lesnar’s win over Mark Hunt was “underwhelming”. He only had 8 fights in his entire career prior to UFC 200, had been out of the cage for 5 years, and hadn’t picked up a win in 6 years. He came in on practically one month’s notice and fought Mark Hunt, who had recently challenged for the (Interim) Heavyweight Title, and had earned impressive victories over fighters like Frank Mir, Ben Rothwell, Mirko Cro Cop, and others, including being one of the only men to have ever KO’d Roy Nelson and his indestructible chin. Brock, who was regarded as the underdog by most, went in there and avoided Hunt’s power punches and controlled the majority of the fight en route to the unanimous decision win. It took the current UFC Heavyweight Champion Stipe Miocic 4 and a half rounds to finally finish Mark Hunt off. There’s nothing underwhelming about Lesnar’s victory here. Moving on from that discussion, I would not rank Brock Lesnar in the top 5 but I chose FACT because I do feel he is worthy of a top 10 ranking. He just beat #8 Mark Hunt, after all. I currently have Lesnar ranked #7, behind the consensus top 6 of Miocic, Werdum, Overeem, Velasquez, dos Santos, and Rothwell.

Robert Winfree: FACT He beat the number eight guy, by definition he’s at least number eight then. I know rankings don’t always work that way but heavyweight is an ironically thin division and I can easily see Lesnar fitting into the top ten somewhere. The fact that he was able to do that after a five year absence from the sport is incredible, the man is truly a freak athlete, and while his skillset is relatively one dimensional and not exactly the most diverse if he were to return to full time fighting a top ten spot is hardly unwarranted at this point in time.


So who won? Did Robert Practor make a splash with his return? Or, was Robert Winfree able to take advantage of Practor’s ring rust? You’ve got until midnight eastern on Saturday to vote, so make sure you make your voice heard!


And that’s it for today, but as always, we’ll be back next week with another contest! And please, be sure to vote!

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