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411 Fact or Fiction MMA: Will the UFC Co-Promote With McGregor?

January 27, 2016 | Posted by Wyatt Beougher

Welcome back to another edition of 411 Fact or Fiction MMA, and I’m your host, Wyatt Beougher! Last week, I valiantly (foolishly?) decided to take on Dino Zee when his originally scheduled opponent, Larry Csonka, was unable to participate. Unsurprisingly, when the voting closed, Dino had picked up another win, taking nearly 57% of the total vote. Honestly, I’m thrilled that I was able to manage just under 35% of the total, as Dino was, as always, on-point with his responses. This week, Robert Winfree and Evan Zivin are going to lock horns, and they’ll be discussing the UFC’s heavyweight division in the wake of injuries to both Fabricio Werdum and Cain Velasquez and also whether or not Conor McGregor could ever co-promote with the UFC, as suggested by Bas Rutten.

TALE OF THE TAPE
RED CORNER
Evan “White Tiger” Zivin
Contributor, 411 MMA Zone
1-4-1

VS

BLUE CORNER
Robert “The Last Rider” Winfree
Contributor/Live Coverage Guru/Host, 411 MMA Zone/411 Ground and Pound Radio Show
2-4-0


1.) With both Fabricio Werdum and Cain Velasquez out of the main event of UFC 196, the UFC should forego having a heavyweight fight at the event and just re-schedule Werdum/Stipe Miocic or Werdum/Velasquez whenever two of the three are healthy.

Evan Zivin: FACT You mean, aside from the heavyweight fight that is still scheduled for the show? It’s all right, Wyatt. I forgot that Roy Nelson vs. Jared Rosholt was a thing too. Obviously, there’s little point in scheduling another heavyweight fight just for the sake of having a second one for the pay-per-view, especially when the show is less than two weeks away. It’s possible they could do some re-shuffling and book Miocic vs. Josh Barnett or something, as Josh has already said he’d do it if it was for a *groan* interim championship, but there’s little point. The event is two weeks away and a Miocic vs. Barnett main event will probably not generate any more buys than Johny Hendricks vs. Stephen Thompson would. It’s not like Werdum vs. Velasquez 2 was going to be a big moneymaker either but that’s besides the point. UFC 196 will just have to press on as it is and we’ll hopefully get a heavyweight title fight in a few months. For now, though, let’s just be thankful that Ben Rothwell is fighting on Saturday. Oh yeah. You show ’em, Big Ben. You are…FOX Sports.

Robert Winfree: FACT The only way to get a title fight on that card would be to create yet another meaningless interim heavyweight title, and at this point I think we’re all just a little sick of that. Interim belts are necessary only when there isn’t a time table for the return of the champion or there are too many unknowns around the champion; neither is the case here. Werdum has disclosed his injury, it’s not career threatening so we just have to wait. It sucks waiting, but I’d rather wait than deal with yet another interim title, let’s not forget that Werdum was the interim champion going into his first fight with Velasquez and we really don’t need another one.


2.) Considering Velasquez’ injury history, he should not receive another title opportunity until he wins another fight and proves that he can stay healthy.

Evan Zivin: FICTION This is more for the wording of the statement, as I do agree that he should win another fight before getting a title shot, mainly because I don’t think he deserved an immediate rematch anyway. Mexico City altitude notwithstanding, Werdum kicked Cain’s ass. Right now, there’s little reason to believe a rematch would go any differently, so it’s on Cain to get back in the cage, make a statement, and convince us we will not see the same Cain Velasquez in the rematch that we saw at UFC 188. Until he does that, I won’t be convinced he can beat Fabricio. Of course, if the immediate rematch is still the next fight that’s booked, you know I’ll watch.

Anyway, while I agree with the first part of the statement, I don’t with the second. It’s not fair to say that Cain can’t get a title shot unless he “proves he can stay healthy.” What does that even mean? How does he prove something like that? Does it mean he takes a fight and, if he comes out unscathed, he’s okay to fight for the title, even though he can still get hurt before the title fight? Does he just have to survive a training camp without hurting himself, which means very little unless he’s training for a title fight? There’s no practical way to go about proving he can stay healthy long enough to fight for the belt. Well, unless UFC offered both him and Miocic (or any other top contender) the fight and, whoever makes it to Fight Night at 100%, or close enough to still compete, gets locked in the cage with Werdum. Actually, that’s not a terrible idea. I see reality show potential for this…Dana White: Looking For a Fighter Who Can Go Six Weeks Without Hurting Himself, coming soon to Fight Pass!

Robert Winfree: FACT I wasn’t a big fan of the immediate rematch anyway, Velasquez got finished without controversy and the rematch seemed more like the UFC desperately trying to get the belt back on him because they want him to continue breaking into the Mexican market place. Now add yet another injury and the fact that Velasquez is 33, I say give Stipe the title shot and let Velasquez win a fight in the interim to rebuild some interest.


3.) Conor McGregor already selling a fight with Frankie Edgar by saying Edgar “stink[s] of desperation” and questioning the frequency of Edgar’s title shots belies the notion that McGregor is going to leave the featherweight division permanently.

Evan Zivin: FICTION Not necessarily. I mean, is Conor going to leave the featherweight division permanently? More than likely, in part because the weight cut is getting to be too much for him but also in part because there aren’t any compelling fights left for him there. He beat Aldo. He beat Mendes. He even beat Holloway, who could be a future champion. Sure, there are still guys like Ricardo Lamas and Cub Swanson but there’s little reason to think Conor wouldn’t smoke them and do so in record time. The only fight left for him at the weight (other than Urijah Faber going up to 145 again) is Frankie, a fight that, as far as we know, is something that still interests Conor. His schedule for the year, as laid out by both Conor and his coach, John Kavanagh, is fighting for the lightweight belt, which is happening at UFC 197, and then defending the featherweight belt against Frankie, possibly at UFC 200. Of course, that’s a bold plan and there are a million things that could happen between now and then to derail it but, if that’s what Conor wants to do, which it seems to be, as he wouldn’t even be acknowledging Frankie in interviews if he didn’t foresee a fight happening between them sooner than later, then I expect to see it happen. Only then, after Conor has defeated Frankie, which will prove that he is, without question, the best featherweight fighter in the world, will he leave the division to attempt to assert the same level of dominance at 155.

And then, in a year from now, we will be having this same discussion again as Conor plans to take Robbie Lawler’s gold at UFC 210, or at least that’s how life is playing out inside the Irishman’s head. What a wonderful place that must be to visit…

Robert Winfree: FICTION I think McGregor wants to try and be a dual champion, not just for a moment when he holds both belts but will actually try to defend them both at least once. I’m not sure how successful he’ll be, I’m not completely sold on him beating Rafael dos Anjos, but I think he’ll try and he’s trying to set up for his first featherweight title defense. While I don’t think McGregor sticks around at featherweight very long, I do think he genuinely will attempt to defend the featherweight title at least once. Plus if he beats Edgar, not a given, then he has a legitimate claim to having cleaned out the division and a permanent move to lightweight will make more sense.


SWITCH!

4.) As impressive as Bibiano Fernandes has been in both DREAM and ONE Championship, the fact that he hasn’t been fighting the best bantamweights in the world, in spite of nearly signing with the UFC, detracts from his overall legacy.

Robert Winfree: FACT I really wanted to go with FICTION here seeing as the UFC doesn’t have all of the best bantamweights by a long shot, but at the end of the day there is a huge contingent of the fan base that isn’t aware of MMA outside of the UFC and have never even heard of Bibiano Fernandes. There are several very talented bantamweights outside of the UFC like Fernandes, also Joe Warren, Marcos Galvao, Marlon Moraes, and Eduardo Dantas to name a few, who would easily occupy top rankings in the UFC but since this question is in regards to legacy the answer is sadly fact. We live in a world where truly great fighters who never fought in the UFC, or entered that promotion past their prime, are looked down on because to so many fans the UFC is all they know of MMA.

Evan Zivin: FACT I was originally going to say FICTION because, if all you fight are cans and no name fighters in East Asia, almost all of whom would get wrecked by the majority of the UFC roster, then you have no legacy to even speak of, but I get what you mean, Wyatt. Sure, it’s impressive to win gold in two different promotions and in two different weight classes, but it really doesn’t mean much when no one knows the fighters you are beating. He has wins over guys like Joachim Hansen and Masakatsu Ueda, but it’s hard to compare names like that to names like Urijah Faber and Dominick Cruz and TJ Dillashaw. Actually, Bibiano did fight Urijah early in his career. He lost.

Bibiano has, for years, been considered one of the best bantamweight fighters in the world by hardcore MMA fans and media but, when you consider that so were guys like Shinya Aoki and Hatsu Hioki, it really means nothing, at least not until he’s fought top guys in a major promotion known for actually having the best fighters in the world, such as the UFC. If Bibiano wants his legacy to be nothing more than beating the best cans that Rich Franklin and Matt Hume can find for him, then great. Best of luck to him. However, if he wants to be remembered as anything more, he might want to actually sign the deal that Dana and Lorenzo send him this time.


5.) As beneficial as it could potentially be for MMA fighters if Conor McGregor were to co-promote with the UFC, Bas Rutten even suggesting that such a situation is a possibility is laughable at this point.

Robert Winfree: FICTION I nearly went FACT as a matter of automatic response, but then I had to consider the reality of the situation. The UFC has never had a fighter like Conor McGregor. They’ve had big draws before, they’ve had bombastic personalities, but they’ve never had someone with the drawing power and fighting success combined with fundamentally grasping the fight game quite like they do with McGregor. McGregor understands what it means to be an independent contractor as opposed to an employee, he also understands his value to the UFC and is demanding to be treated according to that value. The UFC has never had to deal with this before – their previous big draws have all been happy to go along with the company line while McGregor is more than happy to have friction with them when their goals aren’t in harmony. If McGregor sets up his own promotion and demands the UFC co-promote with him right now they might not go along with it, but if he’s the first-ever dual champion in UFC history and UFC 197 does huge business on PPV they might cave on that point just because of how valuable he is to them.

Evan Zivin: FACT No fighter is above the UFC. That’s a point UFC has been parroting since it became the top MMA promotion in the world after PRIDE’s demise. It’s why fighter pay is still as paltry as it is and why everyone has to wear uniforms and why the company tries to control its product and talent to the point that it’s had to fend off antitrust allegations on multiple occasions (and is in the process of doing so as we speak). The UFC is the be-all, end-all, best MMA promotion in the world and that’s a title it will not share with anyone. If the company wasn’t willing to co-promote with M-1 to get Fedor into the UFC, back when booking the Russian had the potential to do monster buyrates, they won’t do it for Conor, assuming the Irishman does actually create his own company to sell his brand. I don’t think it’s a situation that would play out, anyway. Conor is very loyal to the company, since he wouldn’t be where he is without it, and Dana and Lorenzo know the value Conor brings them, so both sides are willing to do whatever it takes the make the other happy. I do hope, though, that Conor uses the position he’s in to help the rest of the roster. He’ll obviously battle with the UFC to get more money for himself but if he’s able to help get a little more in the pockets of the other fighters, then it’d be great news for everyone.

And Bas Rutten says lots of things that are laughable, but that’s why we love him.


6.) Contrary to his claims, there is no chance that Phil “CM Punk” Brooks will fight eight times in the UFC, even if he enjoys early success.

Robert Winfree: FACT I get the feeling Wyatt keeps giving me questions about Punk because I’m so dismissive of him in terms of MMA. I don’t think he’ll fight eight times, he’s got decades of injuries because of the abuse his body has taken as a professional wrestler and already has his first training injury under his belt, and even assuming a normal injury schedule for him to fight eight times would take at a minimum three years. Punk is also 37 and he’ll be either competing at welterweight or middleweight, neither of those are divisions like heavyweight where you can use technique and experience to compensate for losing athleticism as you age. At this point I’m not entirely convinced he’ll even make it to the cage once, because another knee or shoulder injury in training that sidelines him for a year likely ends this whole conversation.

Evan Zivin: FICTION There’s a chance. There’s always a chance. Will it happen, though? Well, let’s see. He’s 37 right now. If he doesn’t fight until later this year, around June or July, that means he might fight twice this year. If he can then get three fights a year over the next two years, that means he’ll complete the contract by the time he’s 40. That’s very doable, especially if he’s fighting guys with little pro MMA experience. I mean, it’s not like there’s a need for UFC to push him up the rankings if he starts winning fights. He’s a known commodity but he’s also new to the sport and he needs to build himself up and gain experience just like everyone else who may or may not be a former WWE Champion (Brock Lesnar not included). Fans will tune in to watch him fight no matter who against, whether it’s Mickey Gall or Michael Jakson (that would sure be a thriller…) or the Green Power Ranger or the ghost of Cathal Pendred or anyone else. So, as long as Punk can get a win or two among those eight, I see UFC honoring the contract. They wouldn’t have signed him to that many fights if they didn’t think he either wants to stick around that long or that he’s physically capable of sticking around that long. If he truly is the “Best in the World,” it may take at least that many fights to prove it, but, as long as his walkout theme is “Cult of Personality” then it’s all good as far as I’m concerned.


So who won? Did Robert return to action with a win, or was Evan able to start the year off with a win? You’ve got until midnight eastern on Saturday to vote, so make sure you make your voice heard!


And that’s it for today, but we’ll be back next week with another contest! As always, if there’s anything you’d like to see featured in a future edition, leave your statement in the comments and I’ll add it in. Let me know what you thought in the comments or on Twitter. And please, be sure to vote!

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