411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Are You Excited For Goldberg vs. Lesnar?

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Kevin Pantoja and Jack Stevenson!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

1. You are excited for a Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar match in 2016.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – Absolutely not. They shit the bed badly in 2004 and twelve years later, I doubt Goldberg can go. They’ll put in more effort this time around but I’m not sold on the idea that it will be good. Brock has had disappointing matches with some of the best guys going right now (Seth, Dean, Randy) and Goldberg isn’t anywhere near their level. I see Goldberg getting blown up quickly and not impressing me. They’re most likely going to main event Survivor Series over more deserving guys. The only advantage to this match is that I don’t have to watch a rising star get squashed by Brock.

Jack Stevenson: FICTION – Even at the peak of his powers, really good Goldberg matches were few and far between, so I’m not sure there’s any reason to get excited about him returning to the ring a near 50 year old man, his last wrestling match having taken place over 12 years ago. Brock Lesnar, for his part, has been in lacklustre form all year and seems disinterested in having good matches anymore. So, I don’t think there’s any logical reason to get all hyped up for Lesnar-Goldberg II. It’s not like it’s even a first time ever dream match, since they met at WrestleMania XX in a bout that, as we all know, was spectacular for all the wrong reasons. There’s a small part of me that wonders whether both men will go in super motivated to erase the bad memories of their first meeting with each other, and will resolve to smash the shit out of each other in a ten minute celebration of heavyweight violence, and in that sense I’m at least a little bit intrigued, but pragmatically, yeah, it’s probably going to be no fun. It’s really a demonstration of how carelessly Lesnar has been booked since ending the Streak that there really are no credible opponents for him any more, and so WWE have to cycle through long retired veterans in a bid to give his matches credibility. On this occasion, it hasn’t worked.

2. Following her second violation of the WWE Wellness policy, you believe that Paige is trying to get herself released by WWE.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – Normally, I’d want to say fiction here because it’s hard to imagine that someone is that dumb. However, Paige has shown that she’s pretty damn immature and seems like the kind of person that would let her emotions make some boneheaded decisions. Judging by things posted and then deleted on social media, she is unhappy with things going on in the company and very much on the El Patron train. I could totally see her thinking that leaving the WWE to do stuff with Del Rio is the right idea. I feel like it is a move that she will ultimately regret but when you’re young, there are mistakes to be made.

Jack Stevenson: FICTION – Paige is a woman who has had massive amounts of pressure and responsibility and success and adulation thrust upon her from a very young age, and is still only 24. She is also dating Alberto Del Rio who is obviously much older and married, and rather than accepting they don’t know all the circumstances in their personal lives and giving them the benefit of the doubt, people on the internet discuss their relationship as if Paige must have some kind of mental deficiency, as if this was the real life equivalent of Michael Bluth nearly marrying that intellectually handicapped woman. For those two reasons, it doesn’t surprise me that this mad conspiracy has sprung up in which Paige wants to quit WWE and has decided to do so in a ridiculous, self destructive, vaguely unhinged fashion, but honestly it’s almost certainly bullshit, isn’t it? Both the version of events given by the Knight family and WWE make much more sense, in that they feature two different parties that are both acting somewhat rationally. Paige has obvious neck issues and has been taking painkillers for them that aren’t covered by the wellness policy, or alternatively Paige took some cocaine or something because she’s a privileged young person and a lot of privileged young people do. That’s all. Occam’s Razor, innit?

3. TNA only took the world title off of Lashley because he has an MMA fight coming up on October 21st.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – Honestly, I have no idea either way on this one. I went with fiction because I don’t think it’s the only reason. It probably played a part but this is TNA. They do a fair amount of title changes that don’t always make sense instantly. If they wanted the title off of Lashley before 10/21, EC3 could have won at Bound for Glory. They see a lot in Eddie Edwards and I’m pretty sure that his win was more about his skills than Lashley’s upcoming schedule. While Lashley was doing well as champion, I think Edwards could be a good breath of fresh air going forward. If it was up to me though, EC3 would still be the top heel champion. He’s so good in that role.

Jack Stevenson: FICTION – Lashley has had a fantastic 2016, dominant in the ring and performing at the highest level of his career. It would have been completely understandable if TNA had kept the belt on him for months to come, and it’s certainly convenient that his defeat to Eddie Edwards coincides with his imminent MMA return. Having said that, there are thousands of reasons why a company might take the title off a wrestler, even one in a great run of form, and unless it’s confirmed by Dave Meltzer or a similarly respected source I don’t think there’s any particularly compelling reason to believe that Lashley has lost the championship solely because of MMA. This is a question when either answer is perfectly reasonable, I think.

SWITCH!

4. The Cruiserweight division has been a disappointment since debuting on Raw.

Jack Stevenson: FACT – The problems with the Cruiserweight Division in 2016 WWE are twofold. When WCW first started marketing high flying stars as ‘Cruiserweights’ and gave them their own championship in the mid nineties, they did so as a tacit admission that a lot of their in ring product was, to put it politely, fucking diabolical. Ageing, complacent, overpaid grapplers wandering aimlessly around the ring, occasionally straining to throw a kick or lock in a rest hold. Because of this, the Cruiserweight division, with its wrestlers with ambition and athleticism and energy, very quickly became utterly vital and attracted a loyal cult following. In its own way, it changed the nature of mainstream North American wrestling. Fast forward 20 years, and WWE has a roster absolutely brimming with guys of all shapes and sizes who are both hugely talented and motivated. Of the myriad of problems Raw has, substandard wrestling quality isn’t one of them. This is why the second problem with the Cruiserweight division is so pressing- very little effort has been put into the characterization of these guys. Rich Swann, Tony Nese, even champion TJ Perkins, they’re all just guys who have been thrown in the deep end, with at best a thirty second interview or promo package to try and explain what they’re about. They have good matches, but nothing spectacular in comparison to the rest of the roster. So what’s the point? Why does Raw need a dedicated division for OK matches contested between faceless crash test dummies?

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – 100%. The Cruiserweight Classic was awesome but Raw has managed to totally fumble this. First of all, segregating the cruiserweights with the purple ropes and overabundance of CRUISERWEIGHT being everywhere is a bad move. It screams “DIVAS REVOLUTION” where they tried too hard. Don’t make it seem like it’s so separate. Then, they’ve done nothing to make any fan care about these guys. They come out, wrestle, and go home. Cedric Alexander and Rich Swann appear here and there and never get segments outside of the division. We know nothing about these guys outside of short video packages. Gulak and Nese have appeared more than some of the signed guys. TJ Perkin’s Raw promo tried way too hard to get the video game thing over, which is even different from what he did in the CWC. The only guy with an actual character is Brian Kendrick. The matches have also mostly been good but never great. Total disappointment.

5. WWE possibly following the UFC Fight Pass model and airing independents and possibly ROH or TNA footage on the WWE Network, while not owning them outright, would be good for the wrestling industry.

Jack Stevenson: FACT – With the caveat that I don’t have any kind of mind for business whatsoever, I can’t see who fails to benefit from such a move. WWE gets attractive additional content for the Network and a genuine incentive for people to fork out a little more money for their monthly subscription, while certain indy promotions get potentially millions of new eyeballs on their product, a level of exposure which they could previously only have dreamed about. There is reason to only be cautiously optimistic, because obviously if WWE start offering slots on the Network to smaller companies, they’ll hold a massive advantage over them. No one wants a dystopic future where instead of being truly independent, smaller promotions have to bend to all of WWE’s whims in order to get that sweet, sweet streaming deal. But really that’s just being pessimistic. If you offered any company on the planet a spot on the WWE Network, with a smattering of exceptions, they’d bite your hand off. Such a deal should, if done sensibly, benefit all involved.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – It sounds all kinds of awesome. Getting the obvious out of the way, it is a major win for fans. I’ve been dying to get access to TNA’s heyday and having it as part of the WWE Network would be the best news. ROH charging $45 for their PPVs is a major reason why I don’t buy them and while I don’t think we’d get current ROH, it is a step in the right direction. It helps the industry because it can get more eyes on those indies. If I see a collection or something based on Tommaso Ciampa from PROGRESS, maybe I’ll get PROGRESS’ on demand service. The same goes for Evolve. They won’t put everything up, because it won’t help them, but this can definitely do wonders for companies.

6. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte should main event Hell in a Cell, but they won’t.

Jack Stevenson: FACT – A big maybe to both parts of that statement. The Charlotte-Sasha Banks feud hasn’t by and large been great, and there have been a couple of promo segments that have been downright awkward, but they’ve also managed to put together two wild and exciting and passionate championship matches, and so there’s clearly something there. On a fairly indifferent looking Hell in a Cell card it would certainly be justifiable to put them in the main event, and WWE may well do. Equally, I wouldn’t be surprised or consumed with rage and a sense of injustice if they were stuck in the midcard. I’ll go for fact, on the basis that putting them in the main event would lend the show a historical significance that it would otherwise completely lack. And, hey, those two matches they had were genuinely pretty bloody great…

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – I didn’t even think they should have main evented Raw. Not that Sasha Banks and Charlotte aren’t capable. They absolutely are. I’m a massive Sasha Banks fan so you know I’m not slighting them. The issue is that their feud hasn’t felt like a really big deal. The build to their Mania match wasn’t great and then the actual rivalry over the past few months hasn’t been either. Granted, they deliver in the matches, but outside of that, it doesn’t feel like a big enough deal. Like, it felt like they main evented Raw purely so the WWE can say it happened, rather than because it should have. Though to be fair, the other feuds on Raw haven’t been very good either. Seth and Owens do feel like the biggest rivalry and should close out, even if their Clash match was disappointing.

7. While putting Luke Harper on Smackdown was the right call, pairing him with Bray Wyatt again was not.

Jack Stevenson: FICTION – I think one of the few interesting directions left to go with the Bray Wyatt character would be to have Luke Harper turn on him once and for all. It would have been more exciting when the Wyatt Family was a fully-fledged faction. Harper could have turfed Bray from the group and led them to new heights, or watched them completely fall apart without Bray’s charismatic leadership. Either would have been fun. But even now it’s just two of them, I think there’s a good storyline and some fresh matches to be had between them, and putting Harper back with Bray makes it a bit more likely that it will happen. So, for that reason, fiction!

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – I love Luke Harper. He’s easily my favorite Wyatt Family member. I think keeping him with Bray Wyatt was the best idea. For one, if Bray is kind of a cult leader, he needs followers. Luke did fine on his own when they stupidly split a few years ago, but it always works better together. Braun is off on his own and Rowan is hurt, so putting Luke with Bray is for the best. They work well as a team and during the build for Bray’s matches, I’d much rather see Luke in matches than Rowan. I do hope that Harper is allowed to do some branching out on his own. Let him have some of his own angles or feuds sometimes.