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411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Are You Excited For Rollins vs. Sting?

August 28, 2015 | Posted by Larry Csonka
Seth Rollins Sting Night of Champions 2015 Image Credit: WWE

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Kevin Pantoja and former 411 contributor (and current senior editor and co-founder of Pro Wrestling Ponderings) Jerome Cusson!

  • Questions were sent out Monday.
  • Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

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    1. You are excited for Seth Rollins vs. Sting at Night of Champions.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – At first glance, I was not excited for this at all. Sting lost his only WWE match in stupid fashion to Triple H, and then, in even dumber fashion, shook his hand post match. To me, that said he was done with the Authority. So his random ass return five months later is strange. Add in the fact that I could see him winning, only for Sheamus to cash in and I was down on it. But then, the less cynical side of me came out. I began to realize that the guy I fell in love with in 2007, Tyler Black, is going to headline a WWE Pay-Per-View against Sting. That was unfathomable a few years back. Hell, I still can’t believe it. Even if I don’t agree with the booking of Sting, even if I worry that Sting might win and even if I believe Sheamus may cash in, I can’t help but be excited at the thought of Seth Rollins facing Sting.

    Jerome Cusson: FICTION – Apparently in WWE land, Wrestlemania 31 no longer exists. Let’s explain. At Wrestlemania 30, Brock Lesnar ended the Undertaker’s undefeated streak. Then at this past year’s Wrestlemania, Taker was wrestling Bray Wyatt while Lesnar was in the main event defending the WWE championship against Seth Rollins. Their feud would resume months later and will likely end at Wrestlemania 32. Also on that same show, Sting wrestled his only WWE match against Triple H…and lost. Now he’s getting a WWE title match for pretending to be a statue. Why on earth would he get a title match? Why on earth would the Authority put him against Seth Rollins in a championship situation? We haven’t even talked about all the smoke and mirrors it took for Sting and Triple H to have an interesting match. More people likely remember the NWO and D-X being at ringside than who actually won and how (Triple H thanks to a sledgehammer). I cannot imagine the match being anything better than okay because we all know Rollins will work hard and bump around for Sting. I haven’t been excited for a Sting match since 1999. Thankfully, the name of the event isn’t Bound for Glory. Otherwise, I’d be worried about a title change.

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    2. The finish to the Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar match, while creative, would have meant more if WWE hasn’t ran shenanigan filled finish to the Cena vs. Rollins match.

    Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – The only reason I say fiction is because the finish wouldn’t have meant much either way. Granted, I thought it was pretty shitty for the WWE to have two screwy finishes and a double countout on their second biggest show of the year. Look, the ending to Brock Lesnar and the Undertaker was dumb, any which way you slice it. Whether Jon Stewart interferes in the Seth/Cena match or not, I would have still come out of SummerSlam feeling disappointed. The match should not have been booked in the first place and this was a shit finish.

    Jerome Cusson: FICTION – I actually disagree with the premise of the question. Maybe on paper, the finish of the Summerslam main event was creative, but in execution it wasn’t practical and was borderline nonsensical. Why would the timekeeper ring the bell on his own when he’s literally never done that? Ever. By the logic presented in that main event, Jon Stewart’s interference should have also resulted in the bell ringing and the match being over regardless of the referee bump. This was a confusing finish that required multiple replays and announcers explaining what happened to understand the nuance. Technically, this is fact because the finish does mean one more match between Lesnar and Taker. But for me, the finish didn’t help either man. In reality, just like so many finishes in WWE matches, both guys came off looking like goofs, and a potentially great match got upended by a laughable booking decision

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    3. NXT Takeover: Brooklyn was a superior show in comparison to Summerslam, and it wasn’t even close.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – People may say that I picked Fact here because maybe I’m an NXT mark but I firmly believe this. The past few weeks of NXT television has been disappointing in a lot of ways but they absolutely delivered on their biggest stage. I gave the show a 10/10 once it ended, but honestly feel it was close to a 9/10. The opener was fun and Jushin Liger being there was great, the Tag Team Title match was better than it had any right to be, Joe/Corbin was a decent brawl, Apollo Crews impressed and the final two matches were better than anything on SummerSlam. I’m not saying that SummerSlam was a bad show, because I actually found it to be above average. I just think that this was one of the better TakeOver events and the fact that it was 2.5 hours rather than 4 helped out a lot. I loved TakeOver and only kind of liked SummerSlam, making this a comparison that isn’t even close.

    Jerome Cusson: FACT – With the exception of the Diva’s Revolution match (more on this later), I thought Summerslam was an incredibly well worked show. A lot of guys gave top shelf efforts from Neville to Rollins to Owens and so many others. The tag team title match ended up as my favorite match of the whole show and it was the second contest of the night on a four hour show. Unfortunately, the finishes on this show were incredibly counterproductive. In many ways, that’s been the defining narrative for WWE in 2015. Tons of good to great matches ruined by silly endings that make everyone look stupid. NXT was a show that built to a crescendo. Bailey versus Sasha Banks was the match of the weekend with a great story and an ending befitting this being the biggest NXT show of all-time. It was a great match made even better with an emotional celebration among the four horsewomen. Owens and Balor had a fun ladder match that felt anti-climatic only because they had to follow the women’s tag. Both teams in the tag title match stepped their game up. Samoa Joe and Baron Corbin had a much better match than expected. Finally, Jushin Liger in a WWE ring was a historic moment and he gave another fine effort. NXT was the easier watch. It was more fun. The storylines all made sense. Finally, it didn’t insult my intelligence.

    SWITCH!

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    4. You would be interested in seeing a Stephan Amell vs. Stardust singles match down the line.

    Jerome Cusson: FICTION – I am a huge fan of the show Arrow and Smell specifically. He seems like a genuinely decent guy who understands how to wisely use social media and stay out of trouble. I also genuinely believe he is a fan of the product and respects the legacy of WWE. That being said, putting a celebrity in a singles match is not a good idea. In this case specifically, putting him against Stardust is a waste because the character is uninteresting and a little too cute even by WWE standards. Amell did a great job in the tag match but expecting him to carry a match (even if he’s the babyface and can build to a short burst of moves at the end) is unreasonable. I wouldn’t put him in that position and I’m sure the producers of the show don’t want their star in that position either. This seems like a poor idea all around.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – Why the hell not? Celebrity involvement will always be around in the WWE since it gets eyes on the product that might not normally be there. The best kind of celebrity involvement is when it features someone who is a legitimate fan of wrestling. That is Stephen Amell. The guy is not only a big fan who has wanted to work with the company for a long time, but he is also in damn good shape. He was able to do some fun things at SummerSlam, like the enziguri and the dive to the outside, because of his athleticism. He would need more training to work a singles match rather than a tag but it could be fun. I would much prefer something like that this to seeing Stardust job out in random matches with no meaning. Stardust/Cody Rhodes is one of my favorite wrestlers, so anything that gives him valuable TV time is something I’m all for.

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    5. Bayley vs. Sasha Banks from NXT Takeover: Brooklyn was the best women’s match in WWE history.

    Jerome Cusson: FICTION – I hate the idea of saying something that recently happened is the best or worst of anything because context matters. There is no doubt in my mind it was one of the best matches of the year. However, Banks has had match of the year contenders throughout the year against Charlotte, Becky, and now Bailey. It’s tough to say which one was best, but let’s not take away the significance of what these two women did. They produced a great match that legitimately made people cry. That is a testament to how good both are and how much leg work NXT has done to make the women’s division matter. NXT, and the agents specifically, deserve major kudos for the work they’ve done with the women. And Sasha herself is a low end wrestler of the year candidate at least because of the work she’s done in NXT. People will remember Bailey and Sasha for a while, but I think it’ll be thought of in a more collective way than as an individually great match.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – This is absolutely true. To put this in perspective, I keep a giant ass spreadsheet with every star rating I’ve ever given out. It includes over 1,000 matches spanning WWE, ECW, WCW, ROH, NJPW and TNA. I’ve only ever given out 14 perfect five star ratings and I gave that score to Bayley vs. Sasha. Now maybe I loved it more than some because of my emotional investment to my favorite wrestler Sasha Banks, but this was masterful. From her grand entrance to the trash talk because she didn’t take Bayley seriously to Bayley being more aggressive than ever, it was great storytelling. Add in Sasha’s vicious hand attacks (the steel steps and stomping on Bayley’s hand during the Bank Statement particularly), her somersault dive and Bayley’s reverse top rope rana and this was breathtaking. The emotion of 15,000+ coming to their feet and standing in awe of what two women accomplished in the ring was special. As I said in my WOTW voting, on a weekend with Brock Lesnar, Undertaker, John Cena, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Finn Balor and many others, these two women outperformed them all.

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    6. WWE made the right call to bring back the Dudley Boyz.

    Jerome Cusson: FICTION – Because WWE really cannot create its own stars, we get to see a lot of the older wrestlers brought back to maybe get new stars over. We see in the singles division with Sting and in the tag team division with the Dudleys. I’ve grown pretty tired of their stale act at this point. For a one off or nostalgia pop, there’s nothing wrong with bringing them in. Unfortunately, they will likely wear out their welcome quickly. It again speaks to WWE’s fundamental problem, building new stars, that we see the Dudleys back after a 10 year absence.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – The Dudley Boyz, separately, have shown in recent years that they are not over the hill. Yes, they’re older, but Bully Ray had an excellent run in TNA a few years back and D-Von was solid with their TV Title. Not only is this the right call because they can still go, but it also makes the tag team division must see. Teams like New Day, Lucha Dragons and the Prime Time Players are already strong teams, but adding the Dudleys makes it more legitimate. A win over them matters and they are a much better team to return than the New Age Outlaws last year. Expect this to bring us some fun matches, maybe some tables matches and a tag team division that I want to watch. I’m sure the roster is happy to have them around as well. If you saw Xavier Woods’ post shortly after Raw, he basically admitted that working with the Dudleys was one of the best experiences of his life. Plus, could you imagine New Day parodying them in some way. It could be absolutely gold.

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    7. The main roster “Diva’s Revolution” has been handled extremely poorly.

    Jerome Cusson: FACT – I don’t even know what to say here. It feels like this is one of the most talked about aspects of current WWE and has been discussed to death. There is a lot of investment from stakeholders (hardcore fans, women’s wrestling fans, NXT officials, the wrestlers themselves)in seeing the women’s division succeed. With Ronda Rousey’s success and a continuing discussion about equal rights for women, WWE comes across like a dinosaur when they have a bunch of characters who behave like bitches or are behaving the way male writers think of them instead of behaving like real people. Having Stephanie McMahon involved in this so-called revolution was a gigantic error right from the start. Bringing up three of the NXT women at the same time was a mistake because getting all three over at the same time was an impossibility since the women usually get one segment per Raw and Smackdown. Slotting everyone in teams, and especially with Stephanie being the one to do it, robbed them of their individuality and took away the wrestler’s agency. This honestly feels like Vince McMahon doing something on a whim and Kevin Dunn doing everything he can to sabotage what are three talented NXT women. Sasha Banks had a match of the year candidate on Saturday and then did two moves on Sunday. That is an absolute embarrassment to her and by WWE’s booking team. Instead of singing “Happy Birthday” to Vince McMahon Monday, fans should have been chanting “Please retire” (credit to Ben Turpen for his tweet about this) because this past weekend is proof of how behind the times WWE is when it comes to booking women and how a concern for telling storiez has eclipsed the need to put together a major show that actually satisfies their paying customers. The Diva’s Revolution has been handled poorly, but it’s more a symptom of the greater problem.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – It really hurts my heart to put Fact here. I wanted the call ups of Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch and Charlotte to be special and mean change for the division. It hasn’t. A lot of people are blaming the Bellas but I don’t. They’ve come a long enough way that they are relatively solid in the ring and have to be on TV since they are pretty over. The biggest issue is not talent, it’s creative. First, you can’t shove DIVAS REVOLTUTION down the fans’ throats constantly and expect it to work. The reason the women changed the game in NXT is because they allowed it to happen organically. They didn’t have to tell you what was happening so they could make it trend on Twitter, they just let it happen and people took notice. Another major issue is that this team concept is poor. The focus should be the title. On NXT, the focus is on the Women’s Title for the most part. Why did Alicia Fox join the Bellas? That was never explained and she takes herself out of a title shot. Why did Charlotte join Paige and Becky when she doesn’t fit the misfit role? Why are Team BAD together except that they are all heels? Take Raw for example. Nikki Bella flat out says wins and losses don’t matter, then they proceed to have a 15 minute match. Why should we care as fans? It’s not just about telling the girls to wrestle for 15 minutes, it’s about giving the viewers a reason to care. The fact that the Barclays Center went from giving Bayley/Sasha a standing ovation to doing the wave during a main roster Divas match two nights later is a very sad telling sign of how this has failed so far.