wrestling / Columns

411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Is There Hope For CM Punk in the UFC?

December 11, 2014 | Posted by Larry Csonka

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week: First up is the one and only Mike Chin! He battles Mike Hammerlock!

  • Questions were sent out Monday.
  • Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals and hydroponics.

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    1. Judging by his age and laundry list of injury issues he has openly discussed, you don’t see much hope for CM Punk’s UFC career.

    Mike Chin: FICTION – I’m not delusional–if we’re talking about Punk going on to an objectively great UFC career, the chances fall someplace between slim and none. But that’s not what this run is about. This is about a long-time MMA fan taking a chance and seeing what he can do; and it’s about an athlete who has the name recognition that he gets to take that shot on the highest profile stage imaginable. Punk may fall flat on his face–get KOed or forced to tap out in the first thirty seconds of his first fight. But as long as he goes through with at least one UFC fight, walks into the Octagon with held high, and does as well as he’s capable of, then he’ll have seen through his own aspirations. I have trouble calling that a failure. On top of all of that, I have next to no frame of reference when it comes to Punk’s actual skills as a fighter. His age and injuries won’t help him in MMA, but far be it from me to say he doesn’t stand a chance.

    Mike Hammerlock: FACT – First off, hello to Mike Chin, who’s got to be wondering how many times he needs to kick my ass in Fact or Fiction before I get the message. I am the Jack Swagger to his Rusev. As for Mr. Punk, sports are cruel. When you hit your mid-to-late 30s, you start getting beat by younger, superfit guys. Check out the shell of Kobe Bryant (same exact age as Punk) trying to hang onto his rapidly fading glory in the NBA. Mind willing, body weak. In Punk’s case, he was in a profession that kicks the living hell out of your body. It’s only a matter of where the osteoarthritis is taking root with him, not if. Physically he’s hitting the point where you’ve got to modulate your training, back off a bit, focus on general conditioning and rely on the technique/veteran know-how you’ve developed over your career. Thing is, Punk’s a rookie in MMA. I don’t doubt that he’ll be competitive against some other inexperienced guys. One thing pro wrestling does give you is experience in pushing through pain. If Punk ends up in a battle, I suspect he’ll handle himself very well. Yet his long-term prospects in MMA would seem modest at best, unless he’s freakishly good at it. The other complicating factor is he’s looking to fight at middleweight or welterweight. In any fight sport ( e.g boxing, wrestling), those tend to be the marquee weight classes, the places where the pound-for-pound best in the business converge. Guys in those classes are big enough to possess serious power, but small enough to retain elite speed. You’ve got to be awful good just to survive in the weight classes where Punk will be fighting.

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    2. Having an NXT Champion like Charlotte lose on Raw just days prior to the next NXT special was simply bad booking.

    Mike Chin: FACT – While I like to give WWE the benefit of the doubt in situations like this, this was a pretty strange booking decision. I’m all for having Natalya win matches–I support moving her toward Divas Championship contender-ship, and like seeing her and Tyson Kidd get Raw angle. That said, there were about a half dozen other women who could done that job without it hurting their standing in the eyes of the WWE audience. Charlotte is a rare talent with the potential to mature into the face of Divas division in the years to come. Having her lose her first bout on the main stage–particularly three days before she defends her title NXT strap on R Evolution feels like a real misstep.

    Mike Hammerlock: FACT – “Bad” doesn’t do it justice, it was terrible, idiotic booking, but I don’t think it matters. Monday’s Raw was instantly disposable. Nothing that happened there actually happened, kind of like it was a house show. Erase it from your mind. That was a soft launch for Charlotte. She seemed like a big deal when she came out, the crowd reacted positively to her. Those are the takeaways for Charlotte. She’ll hopefully get better booking when her hard launch arrives. Kind of like how Rusev debuted at the Rumble, got an early exit, disappeared, then got his crush mode launch after WrestleMania. The real opportunity lost was the chance to hype the NXT event this week. If you weren’t planning to watch it already, Charlotte’s brief Raw appearance did nothing to convert you. It would have been exceedingly cool to see NXT talents subvert the Slammys a bit to sell fans on their big event. Instead everyone’s time was wasted.

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    3. The “Slammy Awards” edition of Raw is a useless show.

    Mike Chin: FICTION – The Slammys are silly and meaningless, but for those of us who enjoy awards shows and speculating about end-of-the-year superlatives–fans like me, who grew up reading Apter mags and deluding ourselves into think their yearly awards carried real meaning–they’re harmless enough device around which to frame a three-hour show. Yes, I do wish WWE would derive greater meaning from the awards, to better justify their existence. In the meantime, they’re not much more offensive than WWE’s typical Raw booking, and pay lip service to an year-end reflection.

    Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – Much as I panned the show in 411’s alternate Raw review this week (and I slaughtered it), I wouldn’t call the Slammys useless. Cole was pimping the 78 million social media impressions the event generates. That’s an outrageous number of people interacting with the WWE product, which is damn useful if you’re trying to make money. The scheduling of the show is stupid and the way they deliver the show is craptacular, but the event itself is worth keeping around from a business perspective if they can fix those things. For instance, it should not be the go home show for TLC. Not one storyline progressed on Monday and we didn’t see a single quality match that teased potential awesomeness at TLC. In terms of TLC, they sent the message that it’s going to happen on Sunday … and whatever. The Slammys need to move. If one of the core goals of the show is to generate a few petabytes of social media traffic during the Christmas shopping season, then the Slammys should happen on Cyber Monday. Shamelessly pitch all the fine gear people can buy for their loved ones (at amazing discount prices!) in between the meaningless awards and make your Christmas nut. All the talent can mule around new t-shirts. If the goal instead is to whip up fan interest as we hit the Road to WrestleMania, then make it the first Raw of the New Year. Build some tension for the Rumble and set up some storylines that will play out at WrestleMania. In either case, better production value, better promos, better matches and some buzz worthy moments need to be incorporated into the Slammys.

    SWITCH!

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    4. If CM Punk’s first UFC fight does in fact take place on PPV, you will pay to watch that event.

    Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – I’m not paying for a UFC PPV even if the ghost of Bruce Lee fights the ghost of John L. Sullivan. Well … maybe I’d pay for that. I’m interested to see how Punk does in a non-staged fight, but I’ll be able to see that on the Internet a day or two after it happens. I am a patient boy. Yet what I would do for a Punk match is something I haven’t done in roughly four years: watch a UFC event on cable TV. They could hook me for that and maybe I’d like what I see well enough to get more invested in their product. Since I don’t expect Punk is going to have a long and decorated MMA career (see above), the UFC has to determine whether it makes more sense to use him to generate short-term PPV buys or long-term fan conversion. I generally lean toward the long game view in most things in life, but the UFC reasonably might determine its Punk ROI lies in PPV buys. My PPV strategy with Punk would be to have him do commentary, because I know he’ll say some stuff that generates buzz and he can work every event.

    Mike Chin: FICTION – Mind you, I suspect I’ll be more tempted to pay for this one than any other MMA event in 2015. Just the same, I’m on a limited budget, and since the inception of the WWE Network, I’ve had a hard time justifying the purchase of any wrestling, MMA, boxing, or other PPV special. If UFC throws in the kitchen sink and builds itself a legit super card, I may reconsider, but no one fight is going to sell me on a PPV these days

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    5. While there are rumors that he will return soon, you do not expect to see Rey Mysterio back in a WWE ring before WrestleMania 31.

    Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – I’m flabbergasted by the rumors. Rey supposedly has been counting down the days until he’s out from under the WWE’s yoke. Now we’re hearing he might be back in the fold. Where the truth lies in any of that, I don’t know. Health has been a major issue for him, so working a full WWE schedule strikes me as doomed to fail. If he is signing a new deal, you’d think it would involve him making some WrestleMania money, which would bring him back sooner rather than later. Plus, they could tell a good story with Rey looking for some redemption for the negative reaction he got at last year’s Royal Rumble. Also, the notion that Rey Mysterio is negotiating a contract now which sets up some interesting storyline that will kick off in four months requires me to believe in the WWE having long range planning skills. I’m willing to hear both sides of the “Is Santa Claus real?” debate, but longer-term creative vision in the WWE for a midcard talent? Sorry, that’s preposterous. If Rey’s signing a deal, then he’ll be back as soon as his physical condition allows it.

    Mike Chin: FACT – This could easily go either way, but Mysterio’s in-ring appeal is so thoroughly based on his speed and agility, that I don’t think he has much left to offer WWE in a wrestling ring. Moreover, given how complicated Mysterio’s relationship with WWE has grown, I’m skeptical the powers that be will have much interest in pushing him. I foresee him serving as an ambassador and marketing magnet for his target demo while he rides out his contract.

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    6. You are more excited for this week’s NXT special than Sunday’s TLC PPV.

    Mike Hammerlock: FACT – I was close on this one, but then it dawned on me that we all know the result of the TLC main event before it happens and that tipped the scales. Plus, NXT Takeover: R Evolution will feature all of the NXT Five. First time we’re seeing that. It has a bit of an Angle, Jericho, Eddie, Benoit, Malenko feel to it. It’s a quality pro wrestling infusion. Might be a nice break from me not being all that sportz entertained. However, TLC had a decent build prior to Monday night. The Ziggler-Harper match should be hot. If Ambrose-Wyatt can get back to the point in this match where they were at when Bray hit that clothesline at Survivor Series and then kick it up a notch, then we’re talking instant classic. Also, John Cena and Seth Rollins have amazing ring chemistry. While I hold out zero hope that the match ends with anything other than Seth Rollins going through a table, it could be a stellar match with Rollins crashing and burning on a massive spot to close the show. Also, during its five-year history TLC has been one of the WWE’s better PPVs. My personal take is that TLC has produced eight **** or better matches in its short lifespan (Christian-Benjamin, DX-JeriShow, Morrison-Sheamus, Punk-Miz-Del Rio, Shield-Hell No/Ryback Ziggler-Cena, Rhodes Bros.-RybAxel-Show/Rey-Real Americans, Orton-Cena). Got a feeling we’ll see that streak kept alive this year. Even if you’re like me and generally down on the WWE’s product of late, TLC is a decent bet to provide a break from the dreariness. So I’m not down on either event, but I’m more excited for the NXT Five coming out party.

    Mike Chin: FICTION – This is close and I won’t be surprised if the NXT show ends up objectively better than TLC. That said, I’m holding out hope that Dean Ambrose and Bray Wyatt will make good on all their potential and deliver a big-time blow-off match to justify their less than sensational program, and that WWE may push both Dolph Ziggler and the Intercontinental Championship by giving The Show Off a major win in a match that WWE takes seriously.