wrestling / Columns

411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Is Chyna a Hall of Famer?

April 29, 2016 | Posted by Larry Csonka

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Wyatt Beougher and Dino Zee!

  • Questions were sent out Monday.
  • Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

    1. Anderson and Gallows joining with Styles to screw Roman Reigns out of the WWE Title would help make Reigns a sympathetic figure and help fans accept him as the top face WWE wants him to be.

    Dino Zee: FICTION – I actually wonder if Roman Reigns can, at this point, be made sympathetic. We’ve been told for the last two years how cool he is, how nothing shakes him, and how tough he is. What’s sympathetic about that? On top of that, I’d imagine this hypothetical situation to only garner cheers from the same adults that hate Reigns. I mean, those would be the same fans that follow New Japan and are aware of this prior teaming, right? But it goes back to my original point, which is that I don’t think Reigns can be sympathetic. Maybe with a heel turn and a more organic return to being a face, it could be possible. But at this point, we’re basically in a war between fans who hate Reigns, and the booking crew who continue to push him (clearly, not everyone falls into this), and any attempt to make him sympathetic will only result in more cynicism. So, for that, gotta go FICTION on this one.

    Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – In theory and generally in practice in wrestling’s long and storied history, that would indeed be the exact reaction that such an angle would engender. But at this point, I think we should all be ready to admit that Roman Reigns is a very special case, as every traditional method that WWE has used to attempt to engender him to the fans has failed miserably. Of course, actually having Reigns show some ass and not end the show by single-handedly dismantling three members of wrestling’s most talked about stable of the past couple of years would be an approach WWE really hasn’t tried yet, but does anyone reading this really believe that Vince is not going to make Roman look strong? Especially in his first major title feud as champion? At this point, I’m honestly not sure that they could do anything to make Reigns a sympathetic figure, so I have to go FICTION here. They could put the title on AJ, have Ambrose say he never really liked Roman, make the Usos turn their back on him, and then have him lose squash matches to Sami Zayn, Cesaro, Apollo Crews, New Day, and Finn Balor on successive shows, and I just don’t see the crowd getting behind him like WWE has envisaged. It’s still surprising to me that they gave Ultimate Warrior less than a year to be Hogan’s successor, but they’ve been trying and failing spectacularly to recreate Cena for two years now with no luck, yet that’s seemingly still the course Vince has set in his mind.

    2. Miz’s new pairing with Maryse will breathe new life into his character, but he will largely remain in the same position on the card.

    Dino Zee: FICTION – He will absolutely remain in the same position on the card that he’s held since the Pipe Bomb promo, which is basically “NOT Main Event.” He’s been heel, he’s been face, he’s been entitled actor prima donna, and nothing has helped return him to the top of the card. Maryse certainly isn’t going to be the one to do it. Until he can show some evolution, I think he’s pretty firmly entrenched in his spot.

    Wyatt Beougher: FACT – Miz with real-life wife Maryse as his hype woman has been the most entertaining the character has been since he was a main eventer. Sure he got a reaction with Mizdow, but that was more on the merits of Damien Sandow continually stealing the show. I give Miz all the credit in the world for doing his part to make the bit work (and not complaining for getting nowhere near the credit that he deserved), but Sandow did the heavy lifting there. Bringing Maryse back and pairing her with Miz seems like too good of an idea for WWE, as it takes the one thing any fan who knows who Miz is married to probably legitimately hates (or at least envies) him for, and then plays that up for television. They are so perfectly cast as the smarmy, superior couple that you almost have to believe that this is really just them, turned up to eleven, which is something WWE has had success with before, both during their most prosperous period (with Austin and the Rock, among others) and even recently (New Day, after all, ROCKS). So if this was actually an example of WWE capturing the proverbial lightning in the proverbial bottle, wouldn’t it then make sense that Miz would shoot back up the card? He is a former champion and he did headline WrestleMania, plus he has a certain crossover appeal for fans of MTV reality shows from the last decade. Unfortunately for Parma’s most famous son, the top of the card right now is pretty stacked, and it’s only going to get worse with both Seth Rollins and John Cena set to return sometime in the near future, so I think the Intercontinental Championship level is probably right where Miz belongs and ultimately where he will stay. Hopefully he can prove me wrong, since I was a big fan of his main event run up until he got the concussion and severely regressed, but I’m not holding my breath on that one, either.

    3. John Cena’s return is now scheduled for May 30th. How excited for Cena’s return are you?

    Dino Zee: 10 of 10 – Because I miss him. Because the main event scene has been pretty rough since he left. Because maybe he can be the guy to get some cheers over to Reigns (or, conversely, the fans can show just how much they really hate Reigns). Because I’m sure he’s got a few guys on the roster that he’d love to have some fun matches with. Because people griping about Cena is fun. Yeah, I don’t think he’s going to bring some huge wave of change to the product, but I’m pretty damn excited that he’s coming back. You can hate me… now.

    Wyatt Beougher: 0 of 10 – I’m not actively against John Cena returning, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I can recognize Cena’s contributions to the brand over the last decade-plus, both inside and outside of the ring, but at this point, I’m just completely ambivalent to seeing him on WWE programming. The RAWs since WrestleMania have been a breath of fresh air with minimal Authority involvement and slew of new faces getting air time, and to me, it seems as though Cena coming back is just the first step back to the status quo that has dominated WWE for much of this decade. At this point, I’m not even sure where Cena fits on the card – obviously, they’ll make a place for him, but at whose expense will it come? Sami Zayn seems like the most likely suspect, since he’s relatively new to the main roster and significantly smaller than the wrestlers Vince seems to favor, but he’s also the best pure babyface on the roster (perhaps the only pure babyface, if we’re being honest), and I don’t think anyone wants to see Cena vs Owens again. Does he beat Miz or Cesaro for the Intercontinental Championship and try to revitalize a division that is actually doing fine on its own (relatively speaking, anyway)? Or are the rumors true and after a short program with AJ Styles, Roman Reigns moves on to feud with Cena? Cena gets compared to Hogan frequently, and with Reigns his chosen successor, that feud would certainly echo Hogan/Warrior, though the end result would potentially be more disastrous for WWE’s long-term goal of making Reigns the next face of the company. Honestly, there are a variety of places they could slot Cena into the card, but none of them are particularly compelling to me, so I can’t say that I’m excited by Cena’s return at all.

    SWITCH!

    4. You think that the NXT Title change from Finn Balor to Samoa Joe on a recent NXT live event was a great idea to give the brand even more buzz.

    Wyatt Beougher: FACT – Sure, why not? I’ve gone on record as being a big fan of NXT having the tag team titles change hands on their regular weekly shows, as it gives them a sense of unpredictability that they might otherwise be missing if titles only changed hands on Takeover specials, and this is simply a continuation of that idea. By making this a legitimate title change and not something that was immediately wiped out by Finn winning the title back at the next house show, NXT gave the fans in attendance in Lowell an actual, historic event in NXT (and in wrestling in general, since it was Joe’s first WWE title win). That’s a sure-fire way to make sure your house shows around the country continue to sell out (granted, maintaining the usual high level of quality fans have come to expect from NXT is paramount, but this absolutely does not hurt). Plus, not everyone can make it to Florida for television tapings or to one of the Takeover specials, so this was a way to give those fans something special and send them home happy, and that’s just good business practice. Sure, from a pure selfishness standpoint, I would have loved to have seen the match that culminated in Joe winning the NXT championship, but as a fan of the business and keeping one of my favorite promotions both financially healthy and buzzworthy, I can definitely appreciate this move by NXT.

    Dino Zee: FACT – It also gets the belt onto a guy who one would assume would be more active in a championship role than Balor had been. But yes, adding buzz to a product that already has quite a bit is only a good thing, and especially when done in a way that may up your live event attendance. NXT always felt like it would save all major happenings for TV, and removing that with one title switch at a house show was a great step to take. Sure, this won’t happen at every house show, or even the majority, but going forward, any fan that passes on an NXT house show will have to consider the fact that they could be missing out on a huge event. And that’s always a good thing.

    5. If you were running a Wrestling Hall of Fame, you would induct Chyna.

    Wyatt Beougher: FACT – Prior to Monday’s tribute video, I probably would have struggled with this one, though not for any of the alleged reasons that she hasn’t been inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. No, I had simply forgotten just how much Chyna was involved in during her relatively short tenure with the then-WWF. She was only with the WWF for around five years, but she still managed to be involved with one of the most popular stables of all time, compete in the Royal Rumble, compete in the King of the Ring tournament, win a men’s championship, and even earn a shot at the WWF championship (though ended up losing that opportunity to Mankind before she could actually have her title match). What Chyna’s career lacked in length, it more than made up for in breaking ground, and so I think she’s a no-brainer for this hypothetical Wrestling Hall of Fame.

    Dino Zee: FACT – First woman to hold a men’s title in the WWF. First woman to enter a Royal Rumble. First woman to eliminate a man in the Royal Rumble. A vital part to the DeGeneration X stable in its infancy. Yeah, Chyna is a Hall of Famer. Oddly enough, I do not count her contributions to women’s wrestling, as I seem to recall Chyna saying things to the effect of being too good for the women’s division, wanting to wrestle the men instead, and then treating the women (Ivory especially) as a total joke once she actually joined the division. I always thought she hurt the women’s division, but your opinion will vary on that. Still, even ignoring her women’s division time, she’s, for me, an EASY Hall of Famer.

     photo Brand Split_zpsef6qas2d.jpg

    6. You would be 100% behind a properly run WWE brand split.

    Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – A year or so ago, this would have been 100% FACT (I mean, I even wrote a column about that very idea back in September of 2014), but that was largely because I was tired of Smackdown existing simply to exist. It was filled with video packages recapping what had happened on RAW, which were then rendered effectively pointless because 99% of what happened on Smackdown was just a do-over of what had happened on RAW. So you not only were you getting recycled content from the flagship show, but WWE went to great lengths to show you the (generally superior) version that had just happened a few nights earlier. Since Smackdown moved to USA, though, it hasn’t been nearly as pointless, and in fact, RAW has even taken to recapping some of the things that happened on Smackdown! Granted, there are a lot of positives that could come from a “properly run” brand split. Guys like Damien Sandow and Stardust could get actual on-screen time and be treated as more than enhancement talent. The Intercontinental and United States championships could be split, one to a brand, and used to decide the number one contender to the shared WWE World Heavyweight Championship. Let’s get completely crazy and assume that the Wyatt Family could effectively take over Smackdown and actually follow through on some of Bray’s promises, making them actually feel like a vibrant, vital part of the show like they were in NXT – a brand split definitely has its perks, and I’m not at all against it. But as the question is worded? I just can’t say that I’m 100% behind it, because all of those things could happen without a brand split, if WWE were simply “properly run”, and I feel like not splitting the brands actually gives the writing team more booking freedom (freedom that they currently have and apparently have no desire to use, hence why we get the same dozen guys on both RAW and Smackdown).

    Dino Zee: FICTION – I honestly don’t know, which is why I have to lean Fiction. The Brand Split was fun, and it’s clear that these last few years of a unified roster has caused some to miss it. But I still think about World Champions that shouldn’t have held those belts, or the Brand Exclusive pay per views that had some really rough lineups… and to simply give blind faith to a brand split being “properly run” this time… yeah, there’s just too much for me to hope on. I mean, can we even come to a consensus on what a “properly run” brand split would be? I feel like we all have our own ideas. In Xanadu, where all is perfect, then sure, I’d be in. But we’re not, so I’m not.

    7. How excited are you for the WWE Payback PPV?

    Wyatt Beougher: 7 of 10 – It’s crazy, because I know Payback is going to end the same way WrestleMania did, with Roman Reigns standing triumphant, but I’m still way more excited for this traditionally insignificant PPV/live special than I was for WWE’s flagship one. I mean, look at the card – you’ve got Enzo/Cass vs the Vaudevillains, with New Day likely at ringside and/or on commentary, the Owens/Zayn match we should have gotten at WrestleMania for the Intercontinental Championship, Cesaro taking on the Miz for the aforementioned IC title, a Charlotte vs Natalya match that should at least feature good wrestling even if Stevie Wonder can see the ending coming, Chris Jericho taking on Dean Ambrose in a match that should be as fun as it is unimportant, and WWE continuing to take on the fans by prolonging Roman Reigns’ main event push. And even though the end result of that mach is probably more telegraphed than the Women’s Championship match, there’s the intrigue not only of Guns and Gallows getting involved, but also of seeing just how creatively WWE will try to warp/mask Reigns’ crowd reaction. The icing on the cake is that Reigns and Styles will probably have a fun little match before it devolves into an overbooked mess, but c’est la vie, right?

    Dino Zee: 6 of 10 – It’s like I said to a buddy of mine the other day: I’m 99% sure that nothing cool or new is going to take place, but that 1% is probably the most excited 1% that’s ever existed. I spoke about it in my most recent column, so it’s obvious that I’m definitely into some Bullet Club shenanigans taking place. Whether it’s AJ that benefits, or Reigns that benefits, or someone else entirely, I’m really hoping that something big takes place. But, at the same time, I won’t be too surprised when Reigns wins clean, and Gallows and Anderson attack AJ, and we’re exactly where we’ve been the whole time. The rest of the card? Eh… it looks all right.