411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling Lucha Underground Edition: Was The Ultima Lucha Dos Finale Disappointing?

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Lucha Underground Edition! Today four of our writers will take a special look back and season two of the show, sit back and enjoy…

1. There were too many title changes in season two of Lucha Underground.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – I’ll admit, there were certainly a lot of title changes this season. We saw two Lucha Underground Title changes, five different Gift of the Gods Title holders and five Trios Champions. However, I don’t think it was too much. In season one, we only saw Prince Puma as Lucha Underground Champion and Angelico, Ivelisse and Son of Havoc with the Trios Titles until Ultima Lucha. Having the titles change hands more this season made it feel much different than the first and gave things a very unpredictable feel. The most important thing though, is that most of the title changes this season seemed to make sense. The unlikely trio winning back their belts, Mysterio winning his first, Fenix overcoming Mil Muertes and the debut of Matanza. Most of it worked. I could have done without Chavo winning the Gift of the Gods Title, but even that was part of an angle.

Dino Zee: FICTION – There were a lot, sure, especially when compared to Season 1. Regardless, having the Lucha Underground title change hands from Muertes to Fenix to Matanza, where the belt stayed, wasn’t some criminal stuff. Muertes and Matanza both had longer reigns, while Fenix had a short one. The Trios titles went from The Disciples of Death to Team Havoc, to The Superfriends, to Worldwide Underground, before settling with Fenix, Aerostar, and Drago. That’s definitely a bit much, but also helps to show chaotic the trios division can be. Meanwhile, the Gift of the Gods went from Fenix to Cuerno to Fenix to Chavo to Cage to Star, but with the belt actually cashed in a couple times along the way. Yes, there were more title changes. But coming off of last season, where nothing changed hands until Ultima Lucha, I’m fine with that. And while it’s close, I still go “Fiction” on this. It made the season feel more chaotic and like anything could happen, unlike every Prince Puma title defense last season.

Wyatt Beougher : FICTION – I had this statement once before during a Fact or Fiction appearance, and I went FICTION then and I’ll reiterate it now – every title change during season two made sense, so I can’t say there were too many of them. Admittedly, if this was another promotion, I would probably give it a FACT, but Lucha Underground tells stories better than any other promotion, so yes, I’m giving them a pass on this. In approximately seven months, LU had three champions, five Gift of the Gods champions (though only two actually cashed in), and three Trios champions. That doesn’t sound terribly unreasonable to me.

Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – Admittedly there were a lot of belt changes, but the individual stories were so good that it worked. Fenix and Cuerno battling for the Gift of the Gods early in the season, Fenix beating Mil Muertes for the LU title, Prince Puma/Rey Mysterio Jr./El Dragon Azteca Jr. winning the trios titles, the Monster Matanza Cueto winning the LU title at Aztec Warfare, Cage winning the GoG belt (and having a great match with Matanza), the Worldwide Underground winning the trios belts, Sexy Star winning the GoG and finally Fenix/Drago/Aero Star winning the trios titles all gave us great moments. I think the first season they were conservative with title switches in order to establish the belts. In the second season they shipped the belts around to establish the roster. For the most part, I think it worked.

2. Pentagon Jr undergoing a big season long angle, turning to Pentagon Dark, and then loosing at Ultima Lucha Dos was the wrong call.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – This was one of the few things that I didn’t really agree with from Lucha Underground. Pentagon Jr. is the guy. He’s easily their most popular star, has a coolness factor about him and the story wrote itself. You built up Matanza as an unstoppable monster and his first singles victim was Pentagon. Then Pentagon spent weeks away, getting himself stronger in preparation to beat him. It’s Rocky IV without the Soviet Union. But, in the finale, they make him Pentagon Dark (a dumbass name) and have him kick Matanza’s ass, only to still lose. I like that he was still the last person we saw in the ring this season, but it really feels like they dropped the ball. I loved the Cero Miedo match but I don’t need to see more Vampiro/Pentagon beef. Just put the title on your hottest star. It’s simple.

Dino Zee: FACT – Pardon the whoring, but I basically covered that here. The single most disappointing thing about Season 2, for me, was the set up for a perfect story, only to abandon it for no real reason at all. Sure, the “wait and see” crowd will remain eternally optimistic that the “real” plan is just around the corner, but I ain’t a part of that crowd. From the moment Matanza bludgeoned Pentagon, the course was clear as day: Pentagon heals, Pentagon trains, Pentagon returns, Pentagon gets his vengeance. Instead, we got a cheap finish with unnecessary interference from Vampiro, and stupidity from Pentagon. I don’t know, I really didn’t like it. And like I said in my column, I do somewhat get the need to keep Matanza as a viable threat, which would have been basically destroyed if Pentagon won. But uh, you know, maybe don’t start up an obvious redemption story if you’re not going to finish it up.

Wyatt Beougher : FACT – While Lucha Underground generally earns a “Wait and see” pass from me, when you tell a season-long story with arguably the most popular performer in the entire promotion and miss the payoff of making him champion, it feels like a missed opportunity. Sure, I can see why LU might have avoided Pentagon Dark winning the title, since that was the big payoff to their season-long storyline in season one (though with Mil Muertes in the role Pentagon filled this season). I don’t think anyone wants LU to fall into the same predictable patterns we see from certain other promotions; however, not putting the title on Pentagon seems like a rare misstep for a promotion that just does so much right so often. For me, it’s a comparable situation to if WWE had had Triple H beat Daniel Bryan in the opener of WrestleMania XXX. Sometimes the obvious choice IS the right choice.

Mike Hammerlock: FACT – I’d have preferred he win at Ultima Lucha Dos, but LU fans will only be more molten for him because of it. So it’s a wrong call, but nothing egregious. Pentagon Dark, Sexy Star and Son of Havoc all have amazing title chase stories in place for season 3. I’d say the bigger problem with Pentagon Dark is his UL2 title match was nowhere near as good as the Six to Survive match which got him the title shot (which I thought was the LU match of the year). We deserved something more incredible as the capstone to Pentagon Dark’s season.

3. King Ceurno was the most under appreciated performer of season two.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – He’s not a bad choice for this, but you have to look at some things. Cuerno got a lot of shine early on in a series of really good matches with Fenix, including a Gift of the Gods Title win. Yes, he was less featured as time went on but with the way the season was structured, that was expected. Once the Fenix/Mil stuff passed, we got Aztec Warfare, which led us to the Matanza and Mysterio era. Honestly, outside of the quick loss to Siniestro de le Muerte, I can’t be mad. He even got a marquee Ultima Lucha match. I’d say that Daga, Aerostar or Drago were most underappreciated or underutilized this season. Daga impressed but his only win came against Mascaita Sagrada and Drago and Aerostar were key parts of season one, only to appear in like, five matches this season.

Dino Zee: FICTION – The dude got to beat Fenix and Mil Muertes, hold the Gift of the Gods, and have a huge match at Última Lucha Dos. What else can he do? I feel like Drago basically disappeared from Season 2 after making a great impression in Season 1. And even when he was around, he just wasn’t doing very much. Some bathroom nunchuck fights just don’t really hammer home the idea that this is a top-ish guy. Sure, he rebounded well to close the season out and win the Trios Titles, but for my money, even if you don’t consider Drago to be the most underappreciated guy, he still beats Cuerno in this discussion, which makes the question, to me, an easy Fiction.

Wyatt Beougher : FACT – I’ll go one step further and say that Cuerno is the most underappreciated performer in Lucha Underground’s young history. He’s a phenomenal talent who loses the blowoff match every time he makes it to the forefront of the promotion and spends the rest of the time slumming it with guys he’s clearly better than. For my money, Cuerno is one of the two or three best overall performers in Lucha Underground, and yet he’s basically a gatekeeper for the LU title (or, as a more cynical wrestling fan might term him, a jobber to the stars). Allegedly, Cuerno was upset with AAA/LU management for not letting him work the Cruiserweight Classic, but can you blame him? Based on what we’ve seen from the CWC so far, it certainly seems like this is an instance where WWE would use a guy better than his “home” promotion. Cuerno vs ZSJ or Kota Ibushi? Yes, please!

Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – Cuerno’s a great choice. Pretty much everything he touched this season turned to gold. My pick would be Jack Evans, the baddest bitch in the ring. He was over the top all season long, crowds love to hate him and hopefully LU gives him a bigger push in season 3. Marty the Moth is brilliant during vignettes (creepy bastard) and I was really impressed by his ring product this season. Probably the best thing about LU is how deep the roster goes. I think Cuerno might be a little too appreciated to count as underappreciated.

4. The Monster Matanza Cueto has been a disappointment as the Lucha Underground Champion.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – It can be very hard to book a dominant champion that has competitive, interesting matches. After impressing the hell out of me at Aztec Warfare, Matanza squashed Pentagon Jr. and beat Fenix pretty handily. I was worried that, while the angle made sense, his matches were going be Brock Lesnar like. They fixed that as the season went on. He had really good, competitive matches with Mil Muertes and Cage, before coming back to Pentagon. Matanza is very impressive in the ring, had great matches, had a character and storyline that was intriguing and was part of some awesome moments (remember when he and Mil broke Dario’s office ceiling?). I couldn’t ask for more from him.

Dino Zee: FICTION – This one is difficult for me, because I can’t decide if it’s him, or the booking. If it’s just disappointing booking, then that can easily be fixed with a big time feud or attack on someone. Matanza came in like a huge wrecking ball, destroying nearly half the roster before making guys like Pentagon and Cage and Mil Muertes look almost ordinary. After that, though… it all really slowed down, and it became clear he was being held in place for Pentagon’s return. Still, those matches with Pentagon, Cage, and Mil Muertes were all hard hitting, brutal affairs, and I think it’d be a bit fast to call him a disappointment after delivering such amazing contests. If the booking can get behind him again and give him something to do, I think he’ll be fine. I’m still blaming booking more than the man, so I’m going Fiction here.

Wyatt Beougher : FICTION – Disclaimer: I’m a huge fan of Path of Rage/FTW Champion/ECW Champion Taz, so I get all anime heart-eyed when I watch The Monster Matanza Cueto. Seeing a little fireplug of a guy (and I can say that because I’ve got five inches of height and a few pounds on him) just run roughshod over guys, doing things physics should prevent someone of his build from doing, warms my cold, jaded heart. I’m also a huge fan of horror movies and Dario Cueto, so TMMC falls right into my sweet spot, and I’m honestly not sure what metric someone could use to measure him a failure. He won his title in dominant fashion, defended it repeatedly in some outstanding matches, has yet to have a bad match, and has one of the best mouthpieces in the business to speak for him. That, to me, sounds like the complete opposite of a disappointment, and while I would’ve liked to see Pentagon take the strap during the Ultima Lucha Dos finale, I’m actually cool with more Matanza as champion.

Mike Hammerlock: FACT – LU set itself up with an impossible mountain to climb with Matanza. Jeff Cobb, who is the man under the mask, is about a foot too short. The set up for him made you picture a new age Undertaker. He also doesn’t finish his suplexes with the kind of gusto that makes them seem devastating. Matanza had a good season. His matches were solid, but he needed to be amazing. On that score he fell short. Overall I thought Chikara did a better job back in 2014 with Deucalion as its big bad. He brought more menace to the table. Matanza still needs to do things and do them with enough impact, that it justfies the terror he’s supposed to be.

5. The two-hour Ultima Lucha Dos finale, while good, was a disappointment.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – Understand this. This is not me saying that Ultima Lucha Dos was bad in anyway. I just came in with way too many expectations. The first Ultima Lucha was my favorite show of 2015, beating out Wrestle Kingdom 9, TakeOver: Brooklyn and Dominion. This year, there wasn’t anything I’d really consider bad, but it never quite reached the levels of the original for me (even though the original had Texano/Blue Demon). The first night was fun, but I wasn’t into the Dr. Wagner Jr. stuff and Mack/Havoc felt lackluster. The second night was really strong and probably my favorite overall. The final night had the best match of the entire thing (Puma/Rey), but featured too many shenanigans in four of the five matches, as well as the Pentagon Dark stuff. One of the best shows of the year if you combine them, just not as good as the original to me.

Dino Zee: FACT – This obviously depends on what you wanted to see happen, but for me, it was definitely disappointing. To be fair, I loved Parts 1 and 2 completely. Even Part 3 was going alone fine until Pentagon and Matanza got started, and that was followed by getting that young kid Rey Misterio that win he needed over Prince Puma. I know griping about wins and losses is about as snarky as it gets, but I’m hardly threatening to quit watching LU or anything like that. UL2 was still a fantastic event, but the two biggest matches, for me, just did not deliver completely. At least with Puma/Rey, we got an incredibly fun match, which really wasn’t much of a shock. But seeing Puma lose… just a bad taste once it was all said and done. And I already covered my heartbreak with Pentagon losing. I’d rate the show highly, and recommend it to friends, but I still feel a little disappointed with how it all wrapped up. Ah well. We’ll get it back for Season 3.

Wyatt Beougher : FICTION – While I do think it lacked some of the impact of the original two-hour edition of Ultima Lucha, overall, it was a very solid show. I mean, you had the Karate Ninja Flaming Space Dragons taking on the Nut Shot Express with the Trios Championships on the line, a pair of eagerly anticipated matches featuring TMMC versus Pentagon and Rey Mysterio Jr versus Prince Puma, a pretty solid singles match between Taya and Ivelisse that had a rock-solid (if overly simple) build, and the only real disappointment of the evening, which was El Dragon Azteca Jr taking on Black Lotus. And while I would’ve rather seen one of the most exciting performers on the LU roster taking on anyone else in anything other than a storyline match, it definitely made sense for her to take on El Dragon Azteca Jr in the season two finale after killing his mentor and predecessor in the season one finale. And while I didn’t particularly care for most of the results – that match, the LU title match, and the main event (more on that in a moment) – the show itself kept me entertained from start to finish. Hard for me to call that a disappointment.

Mike Hammerlock: FACT – The first and last matches delivered, but the stuff in the middle was overbooked and, ultimately, ineffective. The first two nights were more consistent and exhilarating. It should be interesting to see how well LU Monday morning QBs itself. The hope is the producers sit down and admit to themselves they need to do better, that a great season demands more of an epic finish. It’s hard to do that when you churn out excellent shows every week. When **** has become your standard, that means you need to hit ***** at your biggest show, possibly more than once. That is incredibly hard to do and I think LU tried, unsuccessfully, to have narrative accomplish what the matches themselves couldn’t. In general it’s the other way around, the wrestling quality is what makes the narrative better.

Puma fought valiantly, but @ReyMysterio proves he’s still the king of Lucha Libre! #LuchaUnderground #UltimaLuchaDos pic.twitter.com/KekmL7Z0bg

— Lucha Underground (@LuchaElRey) July 21, 2016

6. Rey Mysterio defeating Prince Puma at the Ultima Lucha Dos finale was the right call.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – This was the toughest one to choose. On one hand, I could see this being a fact. While a lot of people don’t like the old guy beating the new star, it’s Lucha Underground and they normally plan ahead, so it could be part of a bigger story. If someone chose fact for that reason, I wouldn’t be mad at them. I went fiction though. Prince Puma is Lucha Underground. Hell, if there was a Mt. Rushmore of LU, I’d say it’s him, Pentagon Jr., Mil Muertes and Dario Cueto. Puma should have beaten Rey in a competitive match that proved Rey still belonged, while still keeping Puma as the benchmark in Lucha Underground. He gained Rey’s respect but I think the win would have meant more and not hurt Rey at all.

Dino Zee: FICTION – This is one that either side can argue with logical points all day, so it’s tough. I just felt that Lucha Underground had the opportunity to have one of their “home grown stars” put their stamp on a world known star, and they instead chose to tell their audience “even our best guy isn’t as good as some aging veteran.” And I just can’t get behind that line of thought. Sure, maybe a rematch is in the works for Season 3, or maybe a heel turn is being set up. Still not enough for me. Puma should have won that match.

Wyatt Beougher : FICTION – This is exactly what I was worried about when I found out Mysterio had signed with LU – guys who are better than 2016 Rey Mysterio forced to sell for him like he’s the 1995 version of himself. Ricochet/Prince Puma is so good that 1995 Rey Mysterio Junior would be blown away by him, yet he’s losing to a guy who, if LU would do superlatives (think your senior yearbook) at the end of each season, would have been the runaway favorite to win “Most Likely to Run Back to WWE”. I suppose I should have seen it coming based on how they built Rey up throughout the season, but when they made him the least interesting third of a Trios team, I thought that maybe LU was smarter than just pushing their most well-know guy at the expense of the guys they spent all of season one building. WHOOPS. Anyway, the match itself was better than I expected, even I would have rather seen almost seventeen minutes go to El Dragon Azteca Jr and Prince Puma (hey, the original El Dragon Azteca was supposedly a role model to Mysterio so him fighting Lotus would’ve made just as much sense), but I’ll hand it to Rey – for a guy who hasn’t had knees for over a decade, he did a surprisingly good job. That said, I still don’t think putting a 41-year-old over a 27-year-old is almost always a bad idea, and when the 27-year-old is Prince Puma, one of the best wrestlers in the world AND a guy you’ve spent the better part of two seasons building up, it becomes especially bad.

Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – I don’t mind Rey getting a big win which recognizes his status as lucha legend, but Puma’s working at a level that few can match. He is short list for best wrestler on the planet and LU would have been smart to celebrate that while it’s got him. Rey would have gotten just as much respect for a hard-fought loss. Yet Puma kicking it up to a new level (I maintain he could hit an 810) would have ended the season with LU being able to make the claim that it employs the most must-watch wrestler in the business. Nothing against Rey, he can’t be that guy.

7. Season two of Lucha Underground was better overall than season one.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – While I believe Ultima Lucha was better than Ultima Lucha Dos, season two as a whole was superior. Season one was great, don’t get me wrong. However, it didn’t really hit its stride until after Aztec Warfare. Each and every episode of season two felt very important. It all would lead to something else and, while a lot of guys didn’t get as much screen time as season one, all of them seemed to have something of interest. Cuerno’s feud with Fenix, Famous B being entertaining as hell, Daga and Black Lotus’ love angle, Drago & Aerostar being involved in a nunchuck fight, Catrina’s war with Dario, Pentagon and Ivelisse and more. Let’s not forget about match quality either since I think this season had better matches. When I make my big end of year list of the top matches (which will most likely be more than 100 this time thanks to the sheer amount of wrestling I’ve seen this year), there will be a lot of Lucha Underground season two.

Dino Zee: FICTION – And that’s not an insult (that’s just a fact of life). Season 1 gave me the Beginning of Pentagon’s Arm Breaking Tour. It gave us the Rise of Team Havoc. It gave us Angelico’s Leap. It gave us Fight All Night, Alberto El Patrón, and we even saw the first hint that all rules were off when Bael got eaten. Season 2 was incredible as well, with more chaos and title changes and all that jazz, but it just didn’t have the singular moments that really drew us all in the first time around. Hey, it’s not often that the sequel is better than the original, so nothing to sweat here. The important thing is that Season 2 of Lucha Underground was still very, very good. That’s all that matters to me.

Wyatt Beougher : FICTION – The in-ring product was right on par with season one (and perhaps actually better because there were less filler matches), but there were several points in the season where I, a diehard LU apologist, felt that they were rushing stories without really setting up what happened next. And because LU’s storytelling was one of the strongest points of season one, I can’t in good conscience go FACT on this one, as that was probably my biggest disappointment from the entire season. Saying that, even a slightly less good season of LU is still better than 99% of the wrestling that’s available today. And to the writers’/producers’ credit, we don’t really know if they had a good solid list of things put together that ended up being compressed due to the shorter overall length of the season. And I’ll admit that I haven’t watched any of season one since season two began, so it’s entirely possible that nostalgia is causing me to over-remember so many of the positives about season one, but while I think season one was the better season overall, season two is still better than most of what you’ll find out there, so if you haven’t seen it yet, find a friend and go watch it. In fact, marathon that mess.

Mike Hammerlock: FACT – Both were fantastic, but season 2 started in fifth gear and pretty much never let up. Forget about wrestling for a moment, it was the television show I most wanted to see every week. We got Fenix’s rise to the top, the triumphant return of the Cuetos, some outstanding trios action, a star turn for Cage, Sexy Star’s epic season (including the hardest core women’s match I’ve ever seen), Rey Mysterio Jr.’s best work in a decade, and the rise of Pentagon Dark. LU’s bad weeks were good and its good weeks were phenomenal. Now let’s see if they can top it with season 3, which is right around the corner.

Until September 7th…