411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Was Orton Winning The Rumble The Wrong Call?

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Steve Cook and Tony Acero!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

1. Randy Orton winning the Royal Rumble was the wrong call.

Steve Cook: FICTION – I wasn’t mad about it Sunday night like everybody else seemed to be. It seemed better to me that the options I figured were at the front of the table. A couple days have passed now and it seems to make even more sense to me. Undertaker doesn’t need it. Goldberg doesn’t need it. Lesnar doesn’t need it. It’s still too soon for Braun Strowman. Roman Reigns winning it would have started a riot. Randy Orton is a name people buy winning pretty much anything, and his win on Sunday boosts his & the Wyatt Family’s standing even more. They’ve had pretty good nights on the last couple split-brand shows, as they were the survivors of the Raw/SD Survivor Series Match, and now Orton is the Royal Rumble Winner. I think WWE also correctly figures that the top names on SmackDown need these victories more than the top guys on Raw do, as even though SmackDown might be the better show according to most of us, there’s always going to be that perception that Raw is the bigger show. Especially when that’s where all the part-timers go. It also adds some mystery to the Raw title scene, as I don’t think anybody really knows who’s going to be involved in the Universal Title match at WrestleMania at this moment. Maybe Orton isn’t everybody’s favorite wrestler, but he was a good choice to win the Rumble.

Tony Acero: FICTION – ‘m actually totally ok with Orton winning the Rumble. I truly feared the worst when Reigns came out, but I’m glad they went the direction that they did. True, I was really hoping for a Finn win, but I think I knew that was more of a pipe dream than anything. As for the rest of the roster, maybe there was one or two other possibilities that could work, but I really don’t see much wrong with Orton winning. He’s been far enough away from the main event picture that it feels fresh, and yes he and Cena have gone one-on-one countless times (well, someone has counted, I’m sure), but it’s been a while. Perhaps I’m changing as a fan, but I’m for less likely to despise Cena or Orton in the main event picture (namely of Smackdown) now than I was years ago. I think they’ve taken enough time away from the spotlight to feel somewhat new and refreshing this time around. There is also something to be said about the possibility of Wyatt getting his just due that seems to be looming. I think, perhaps, what I enjoy about it the most is the fact that there is a lot going on right now that we simply cannot predict – and that’s ok.

2. The Smackdown women will get an Elimination Chamber match at the Elimination Chamber PPV.

Steve Cook: FICTION – Based on Tuesday’s show it looks like the answer is no, which is the right decision. The Chamber PPV this year suffers a bit from timing, as it’s only two weeks after the Royal Rumble PPV and there really isn’t enough time to build a whole heck of a lot. Something as historic as the first Women’s Elimination Chamber would deserve better than a less than two-week build. There’s also the rumors going around about Nikki Bella being on the verge of retirement, and if she is about to hang up the boots due to injury taking its toll, sticking her in the Chamber would be extraordinarily stupid. People got a little excited about this idea due to the six-woman tag at the Rumble Kickoff Show, but it looks like we’ll have to wait at least another year for the ladies to step inside the Elimination Chamber.

Tony Acero: FICTION – And there’s really no reason for them to get said match. To be honest, I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently, and although I won’t dive deep into gender roles and expectations, I will settle on the idea that these matches are only as good as the story being told, and the ladies on Smackdown simply do not lend to a story involving an Elimination Chamber. The wrestling fanbase is actually quite behind the times in terms of equality, whether it be race or gender, but I don’t think it even has to go that deep into discussing the possibility of an Elimination Chamber match with women involved. It just doesn’t seem to fit correctly into what they’ve been doing over the past few weeks, nor would it make any of them look any better than they do now.

3. Samoa Joe’s Raw debut was great.

Steve Cook: FACT – I’ll admit to some disappointment over the fact that Joe wasn’t in the Royal Rumble Match, but his debut on Monday night made more sense story wise and is better for him going forward. There aren’t many better roles for Joe than as a destroyer backing up Triple H. Joe came out of nowhere, took everybody by surprise and made an impact. The downside of debuting in the Royal Rumble Match is that you’re going to end up selling for a lot of people at some point and eventually get thrown out of the ring. That’s ok for a guy like AJ Styles, but for a monster like Samoa Joe, it makes you look bad on Day 1. It should take some time before Joe takes any type of punishment, and that’s how a monster should be booked.

Tony Acero: FACT – Man, what a time to be alive! We’ve got AJ Styles at the top of the blue brand (even without the title), Roode over in NXT being glorious, and now Joe going ape shit on Seth Rollins on RAW. Beautiful. I’ve seen some complaints about Joe’s debut, claiming that Joe is not someone’s lackey, and that he’s not the type of wrestler to be someone’s puppet. To that I say, simply, shut up. This was done incredibly well. Triple H came out and cut a promo about being a creator, and saying that because Seth didn’t hold up his end of the deal, he had to go back down to NXT to find someone else that could be “the man.” He alluded to trying to find the next Seth Freakin Rollins. The writing was on the wall, and Triple H was able to do something that the WWE writers have struggled with for YEARS! He was able to use foreshadowing (such a hilariously simple literary device) and do it in such a way that came of poetically awesome. The minute Joe cam out was the minute I was like, “oh you sons of bitches.” That moment alone was worth Joe’s surprise. It suddenly seemed that all complaints about Joe not being in the rumble were gone and no longer mattered. I loved the debut, and I’m looking forward to the bad assery that we know he possesses.

SWITCH!

4. John Cena will lose the WWE title at the Elimination Chamber PPV.

Tony Acero: FICTION – I don’t really know why I feel the way I do, but I don’t see them giving Cena the title just to lose it two weeks later. The whole 16th Reign thing is a big deal according to them, so it would make sense that this particular reign was celebrated differently and with storyline implications. Cena dropping the title in two weeks just seems odd. I really can’t tell you what I think is going to happen, because I have no idea, and January is typically where I completely tune out of fantasy booking and just sit back and enjoy the ride. It’s kind of hard to say what I think is going to happen to Cena and his title if I go back into IWC mode. The fact that I question why they would give it to him only to drop it is sign enough that I’m getting too analytical, but the job requires it, doesn’t it? With that being said, I simply do not see Cena dropping the title two weeks after winning it, but we’ve seen much worse. Hell, we’ve seen Cena lose a Money in the Bank cash-in, so what’s a title loss, right? If he does lose, it will once again put things in the air as to what the hell is going on come Mania, that’s for sure.

Steve Cook: FACT – The Road to WrestleMania always has a few bumps in it, and the fact we’re seeing Cena vs. Randy Orton on SmackDown next week tells me that’s not going to be a WrestleMania match. Teasing it is a fine idea, but the Elimination Chamber is the perfect place for a champion to drop the strap to pretty much anybody and have it make sense. As I said in a column on Thursday, my prediction is that Bray Wyatt will exit Elimination Chamber as the WWE Champion, and the build to Wyatt vs. Orton will start right then. It makes more sense from a story perspective and hasn’t been ridden into the ground like Cena vs. Orton has over the past decade.

5. You were disappointed that there was only one surprise (Tye Dillinger) in the Royal Rumble match.

Tony Acero: FACT – To be honest, the surprise entrants have become one of my most favorite parts of the Rumble. Look, we knew that when The Boogeyman came down to the ring a few years ago to hop in the Rumble, he wasn’t going to win – but it was fun. We knew when Bubba Ray appeared again after 10 years that he wasn’t going to walk out of the Rumble a winner, but it was fun! The surprise entrants have always been an awesome markout moment, and one that truly brings an excitement you could only really get at Mania. Seeing Tye was pretty cool, but I would have loved at least one little pick me up at #30. Anything than what we got, at the very least.

Steve Cook: FACT – One of the best parts of the Royal Rumble every single year is the surprise entrants. Sometimes the surprises end up being pretty lame, but it’s still kind of exciting if it’s somebody that hasn’t been around in awhile. I thought people were getting a little too crazy with the surprise theories this year. I saw people predicting Finn Balor & Samoa Joe as the final 2 and had no idea why. But I guess it’s nothing new for people to build up certain aspects of the Rumble every year. I was there live in 2012 when people in the crowd were getting all excited about #30 because apparently it was somebody special every year, which was news to me. Big Show coming out put a damper on that…at least Roman Reigns got some kind of a reaction this year. So surprises are usually overblown by fans going in. But having one, and it being Tye Dillinger, is pretty disappointing. Sorry Tye, you’re a talented guy and all, but we were hoping for a little bit more.

6. What is your excitement level (1-10) for the Triple H vs. Seth Rollins feud?

Tony Acero: 10 out of 10 – I write 10 knowing full well that Seth may be injured to the point where the Mania match between he and Triple H may not happen. I say this only because I’m answering as if Seth will be fine for it. This has been one of the better-written stories in the WWE, and that’s not based solely on the longevity of it. There’s a level of seriousness within the story that holds more weight than most of the others we’ve seen develop. The slow burn that they took to get to where they are has really added some intrigue and created a big-match feel where this is going to be more than just a 20 minute “match.” It honestly comes off like there will be blood. Another thing I appreciate about it all is just how simple it all is. If you’ve ever read former columns of mine, or heard my podcast every Monday after RAW, then you know I’m a huge advocate for keeping the stories simple and allowing the characters to move them along with all the intricacies needed. It is because of this same reason that I love the HHH/Seth storyline. So simple. So succinct. So….good.

Steve Cook: 7 out of 10 – I know that being a HHHater is so overplayed at this point, and it’s not that I have any kind of personal resentment towards the man. He seems to be doing a perfectly fine job behind the scenes. The thing is, I can’t really get tremendously excited about anything involving Triple H in a match in 2017. I’m over it. It’s not like he’s even a terrible wrestler at this point. He generates interest too, I won’t deny it. I’ve just seen enough of it. The other issue is that the whole thing with Seth Rollins calling out Triple H month after month has made the other top heels on Raw look like goofs. He was mad at Kevin Owens & Chris Jericho for a little while, then he just dropped that issue and went full-time complaining about Triple H. If Seth Rollins doesn’t care about Owens & the Universal Title, why should anybody else? With Daniel Bryan back in 2013-14, they did a better job of establishing that Bryan’s main goal was to be the World Champion, and Triple H was an obstacle in his way of being that. Seth Rollins’ main motivation is that Triple H used to help him win matches and now he doesn’t. It doesn’t quite have the same effect. With all of that being said, the past week’s activity has made me more interested than I was The NXT invasion by Rollins was well done and it made sense for Rollins to figure that Triple H would be there. I also like the idea of Samoa Joe being involved, as a Joe vs. Rollins match sounds like fun. The knee injury puts a damper on things, but the timeline being what it is adds some intrigue to it. Before this week I would probably have had this thing in the 3-5 range, now it’s a solid 7.