wrestling / Columns

411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Was Triple H Winning The Rumble The Right Call?

January 29, 2016 | Posted by Larry Csonka

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Kevin Pantoja and Wyatt Beougher!

  • Questions were sent out Monday.
  • Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

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    1. Triple H winning the Royal Rumble and WWE Title on Sunday was the right call.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – I can’t believe that I answered fact to Triple H winning the WWE Title in 2016 being the right call. However, I honestly believe that it was. Now, if this was a situation where the WWE had their full roster, then I’d adamantly say fiction. Before the barrage of injuries, I expected we’d see something involving the three Shield members or Roman Reigns vs. John Cena. Both of those were thrown out of the window. They could have gone with Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose, but they did that at Survivor Series. They could do Reigns/Brock Lesnar II, which was their only other real option at this point, but the fans would have been 100% behind Brock again. Basically, the main reason this is the right call is because the WWE has failed to build enough credible stars to headline Mania. With the roster in shambles, they had to go into panic mode and Triple H can play the role of big name that jobs to Roman at Mania better than anyone else available.

    Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – It was the safe call, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it was the right one. I know the conspiracy theorists out there think WWE has been purposely keeping Daniel Bryan out of action because they don’t want him to hijack Reigns’ push, and while I think their motivation for keeping Bryan out is a purely financial one based on the lawsuits by former talents (or their families), I do think that they are worried about Reigns’ WrestleMania push backfiring for the second year in a row. So having Triple H eliminate Reigns and Reigns not even making the final two allows them to keep him in the WrestleMania main event storyline while preventing the Royal Rumble winner from getting booed out of the building for the third year in a row (which almost assuredly would’ve happened had Reigns won for the second year in a row, based on the reactions he was getting throughout the night). The biggest mistakes that WWE made were having Reigns get attacked by the entire League of Nations, resulting in him spending half of the match in the back, thereby ruining any sympathy goodwill that the attack should have invoked, and having Dean Ambrose as one of the final two entrants in the match. I realize the powers that be in WWE don’t want to hear it, but Ambrose is significantly more popular with the average fan than Reigns is, and that’s in spite of horribly inconsistent and sometimes outright terrible booking since the breakup of the Shield. If Ambrose had been as protected as Reigns (and assuming that Vince wasn’t hand-scripting promos for the much more capable Ambrose), he would easily be WWE’s top star right now and I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that a significantly higher percentage of WWE’s fanbase would be more satisfied with that result.

    And while that sounds like an endorsement for Ambrose to win the Rumble, I still maintain that “the right call” was Bray Wyatt. I laid out the reasons why in the column that I linked to, but for those who want the short version, it’s four-fold. First, Bray had strength in numbers – the Family helped him to eliminate Brock Lesnar even after they had been eliminated, so why wouldn’t he just keep them out there to get rid of everyone else in the match? Second, Bray had a history of success at the Rumble, winning the best singles match of his career at the 2014 edition against Daniel Bryan and then taking out Cena in the WWE World Heavyweight Championship match later in the evening, as well as lasting the longest in the 2015 edition and tying for the most eliminations that year, so it’s not like him winning would’ve been completely out of left field. Third, with injuries depleting a lot of WWE’s main event talent, someone like Wyatt, who has largely been booked as an upper midcarder and feuded with multiple first-ballot Hall of Famers (Cena, Undertaker, Jericho, and even Kane), moving into the main event scene via a strong performance in the Royal Rumble would be the next logical step for the character (though WWE apparently believes that he feuding with Kane – again – is the right move for Wyatt). And finally, Wyatt as champion opened up the most storyline options for WWE, as he could’ve feuded with Lesnar or AJ Styles (and eventually Bullet Club), both fresh new feuds in WWE, or he could’ve resumed hostilities with guys like Ambrose or Daniel Bryan.

    Instead, we got a forty-six-year-old semi-retired performer continuing a feud that no one is exactly clamoring for. WWE thinks they’re building for the future, but continuing to feature guys like Triple H and the Rock so heavily in the build to WrestleMania is only going to hurt them in the long-term, so I can’t in good conscience call this one anything but a FICTION.

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    2. The WWE wasted the debut of AJ Styles at the Royal Rumble PPV.

    Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – Absolutely not. I am a massive AJ Styles fan and I really enjoyed his debut. Seeing him appear at the Royal Rumble gave me goosebumps and I got to see him work many different guys that I really wanted to see him wrestle. Doing it in Orlando was good too, since AJ is well known in the area. I do wish that he was given more to do in the Rumble though. After the initial battle with Reigns and before the short interaction with Kevin Owens, Styles was kind of just there. He should be treated as something more than that, evidenced by not only his ability, but the crowd response. The dude has his shirt sell out on the WWE Shop within an hour of the Rumble ending. Imagine how big of a deal it would have been if AJ did more and made it to the final four instead of having Sheamus in there at the end? Still, while it could have been executed better, I think it was far from wasted.

    Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – Styles was the first timed debut in the Rumble, which allowed his debut to dawn on fans as he made his way to the ring and also ensured that he wasn’t lost in the shuffle later in the match. And while I did complain to my friends that Curtis Axel was in the match for just over seventy seconds and got nearly as much offense in during that time as Styles did in his nearly 28 minute run, but overall, he was not made to look significantly inferior to the WWE guys, something that I think anyone who lived through the Invasion or has seen WWE’s general treatment of guys who came up through the Indies was worried about. I’m assuming this statement is based on Vince Russo suggesting the same thing, and while I refuse to give Russo-related articles clicks, the tagline for it said that Russo believed Styles and Sami Zayn would be forgotten, and, as usual, I think Vinnie Ru is significantly off base. In all honesty, if you look around at social media and websites like this one, Styles’ debut has gotten a lot more play than Triple H winning the Rumble, and AJ was acknowledged and treated like an important part of the show on the follow-up RAW. My only real issue with the first two days of his WWE tenure (the only things that have been televised as of the deadline for my responses) is that Jericho got too much offense in during their match on RAW, but I think that’s more a function of WWE believing a win over Jericho in 2015 meaning significantly more than it actually does. Another very minor complaint is that they teased the Styles Clash in the Rumble and had Owens stop it, but if that happened during the Jericho match, I completely missed it.

    But it’s worth noting that Styles versus Jericho, which featured Styles slowing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy down to accommodate Jericho, is the exact reason I don’t want Rey Mysterio in Lucha Underground. Just like Styles, we’ve seen how good guys like Fenix and Drago and Prince Puma are, and watching them work half-speed so as not to embarrass the “bigger” star is just going to be painful.

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    3. Roman Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Brock Lesnar is a great main event for Fastlane.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – I actually recently purchased tickets to Fastlane and I was hoping for a really good card. The last PPV I attended was TLC 2014, which was pretty dreadful. The Authority putting Roman Reigns in this match makes no sense from a kayfabe standpoint, but it should be fun. I like the idea of getting to see Brock Lesnar work with Dean Ambrose, even if it will consist of him suplexing him for the most part. I’ve always though the idea of Brock/Ambrose was cool because Ambrose is insane enough to do whatever it takes to beat Brock, while also being the kind of guy that would keep getting up. I was thinking we’d get Reigns/Ambrose, while Brock was off working Luke Harper or another Wyatt Family member. This should be fun but I fully expect Reigns to win, Ambrose to take the pin and the Wyatt Family to abduct Brock Lesnar and take him to Denny’s or something. Last year’s Fastlane was pretty forgettable but it looks like they’re putting some effort into this year’s, and this main event shows it. Honestly, I like the sound of this more than the HHH/Reigns Mania main event we will most likely get.

    Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – It’s an okay main event for Fastlane, but a) that’s two years in a row the show has been about Roman Reigns, and b) we’ve already seen a better version of “Brock Lesnar versus two former Shield guys”. Unless the wonderful reaction Dean Ambrose got at the Royal Rumble was enough to get WWE to change their mind about the main event of WrestleMania (which I highly doubt, considering Ambrose has been getting better reactions than Reigns basically since the Shield broke up), Ambrose is only in the match to eat the pinfall and keep both Lesnar and Reigns looking strong. We’re over three weeks out from Fastlane, but I can already tell you how the ending of the match will go: Lesnar suplexes (or otherwise incapacitates) Reigns, then hits the F5 on Ambrose. Before he can go for the pin, Bray’s music hits and the Family surrounds the ring. While Lesnar is distracted, Reigns recovers and spears him out of the ring, then pins Ambrose, earning a shot at Triple H at WrestleMania. That sets up the Wyatt vs. Lesnar match that WWE is apparently looking to book at WrestleMania (which, if Wyatt ends up losing, will effectively kill his chances of ever becoming a true main eventer), gets Reigns into the WrestleMania main event again, and gets Ambrose into another main event without actually letting him look superior to Roman Reigns.

    From a storyline perspective, how does it make sense for Lesnar to even be in the match, considering it was supposed to be based on a wrestler’s performance on Monday’s RAW, a show that Lesnar did not even appear on? Also, why pause the Wyatt Family/Lesnar feud for nearly four weeks if that’s the direction they’re going in for WrestleMania? And finally, if the Authority is so against Roman Reigns being champion, why even allow him the opportunity to compete for the title? Doesn’t it make more sense to give that spot to someone else and stick Reigns against the Social Outcasts or something if you want to punish him for being disrespectful? With this match being a storyline mess and likely to be as predictable as they come, I just can’t call it a “great main event”.

    SWITCH!

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    4. The Matt Hardy/Ethan Carter III double turn (on the January 19th edition of Impact) was well done.

    Wyatt Beougher: FACT – I’m not keen on TNA taking the title off of ECIII so soon after the PopTV debut, as he’s easily the most well-rounded performer on their roster, and I still don’t understand Matt Hardy’s motivations here (if he was willing to cheat to win the title, why not do it on the PopTV debut and get an extra two weeks with the belt?), but I think fans are going to be more inclined to cheer Carter and boo Hardy anyway, so from that line of thinking, it was a good call by TNA. The way they got there may not have been perfect, but it at least made sense, and based on some of the booking decisions TNA has made since mid-2008 or so, that’s about all I ask for from them. ECIII gains sympathy because Tyrus turned on him just like his own family did (why, Aunt D, why?), and Hardy comes across as a manipulative jerk (which would make him a top face in WWE, but that’s neither here nor there) – it’s not exactly Hart/Austin from WrestleMania XIII, but without the rivalry that those two performers had, it wouldn’t be fair to even compare the two. It accomplished what it needed to, without any of TNA’s usual idiosyncrasies, so I’m calling this one a FACT.

    Kevin Pantoja: FACT – Now, I haven’t been following TNA very closely as of late so I don’t know how the build to this match really worked. I’m not sure if there were any hints of the turns or not. I do know that the booking of that whole tournament and the entire title picture was certainly odd. Anyway, I disagree with the decision to have Ethan Carter III’s first loss come at the hands of Matt Hardy. That being said, I think they pulled off the double turn well. I’ve seen it done much better (Austin/Hart and Ziggler/Del Rio come to mind), but it was fine. Plus, Matt Hardy has been pretty incredible on Twitter since the turn.

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    5. Roman Reigns is the wrong choice for the WWE to make their top guy.

    Wyatt Beougher: FACT – Clearly, if you’ve paid any attention to the fan reaction to Reigns since the Shield split, he’s never going to be accepted as the top guy. Fans love him when he’s a semi-important guy doing cool things that don’t involve long, in-depth promos, but as soon as he ascends back into the upper echelon, the reaction he gets is much less positive. In spite of that, I think he’d be a great top guy, which is where my real issue with WWE’s boneheaded booking philosophies comes into play. It never ceases to amaze me that a company who has relied on 50/50 booking for so long that it’s a miracle that anyone is able to get over is still insistent on an overall booking philosophy that only allows for one guy to be the top guy. Yes, Cena has done phenomenal business for them over the past decade, but their audience has steadily declined over that time, and for a company desperate to recapture the heights of the Attitude Era, they seem to forget that they had a handful of top guys at the time. Between Austin, Rock, Mankind, Undertaker, and Triple H, they could reasonably be expected to beat pretty much anyone else on the roster, but when they faced off against one another, there was never an equivalent to the “lolcenawins” or “make Roman Reigns look strong” memes that we’ve seen. When there’s one top guy who is booked as being so overpowered that he can reasonably expected to win any match or feud of any importance, it takes away some of the unpredictability of wrestling and makes it less enjoyable. Conversely, when there are several top-tier talents who can realistically trade wins back and forth, it allows you to draw in a much broader audience because people who like Roman Reigns get to see “their guy” have his time at the top, but so do the people who like Bray Wyatt and the people who like AJ Styles and the people who like Cesaro, and so on and so forth. So while someone (hi, Milvy!) skimming this column might see my response as being “Anyone but you, Roman”, it’s realistically much more “Several of them AND you, Roman”.

    Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – Roman Reigns doesn’t seem to be the MAN to me. I’m not saying this as someone that dislikes the guy or boos him whenever he appears on TV. I just don’t think he has the “it” factor to be the top dog. He can be a top guy in a sea of other top guys, but not alone on the mountain. His matches and ring work are really good most of the time, but his mic skills, acting and character are all pretty terrible. That sucks because those things are so crucial to being the top guy. The problem is, nobody else really leaps out as someone that can have the spot instead of him. There are guys with potential like Dean Ambrose and his organic and natural connection with the fans, Sami Zayn and his lovable manner, Finn Balor and his cool factor, as well as AJ Styles. They all have something that would hold them back, whether it’s their age or their look unfortunately. Honestly though, I think if anyone should be the top guy, it should be a babyface Seth Rollins.

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    6. The Rock’s segment with New Day on Raw was “a great segment.”

    Wyatt Beougher: FICTION – It certainly garnered a huge response from the live crowd, but they were in Rock’s “hometown” (seriously, Rock, you moved all over growing up and you live thirty miles away now, so Miami is “a place you went to college” not “where you grew up” or even “where you currently reside” – stop fronting), so it’s hard to judge it based simply on that (for comparison, I think Daniel Bryan got better reactions over the past couple of years any time WWE was in the Pacific Northwest). But looking at it objectively, what did the segment accomplish? The Rock certainly didn’t give New Day any sort of rub, resorting to middle school insults after New Day made valid points, which has been his modus operandi since probably 2011 or so. It didn’t even give the Usos a rub, as they were still the second most popular tag team involved in that segment and will be even more so once their much cooler cousin is gone again. It certainly didn’t quiet the people who claim that Rock was only a prominent champion in WWE, a company with an overtly racist history, because he was only half-Black, as he snubbed Byron Saxton and immediately neutered the most entertaining act in the company, who also happen to be African American, while simultaneously playing up his Samoan heritage.

    Look, any time the Rock is back it gets more eyes on the product, which is, in theory, good, but what WWE has yet to realize is that when he just routinely runs down one of their most popular acts and doesn’t get any comeuppance, verbal or otherwise, it hurts their overall product when he heads back to Hollywood. At one point, they seemed to understand this (see: The Scorpion King-era Rock’s interactions with the Hurricane), but every time he’s come back since 2013, it’s basically been pandering to the lowest common denominator while loudly denouncing the creativity of performers who do more than just string together nonsense phrases, whether that be CM Punk, Paul Heyman, or now, New Day. While I’m not personally of the mind that Monday’s segment was intended to keep New Day in “their place”, taken in the larger context of things like the Damien Sandow/Sheamus feud where the face Sheamus routinely beat up the heel Sandow simply for being smarter than him, it certainly seems like even if Vince isn’t as racist as everyone claims, he’s certainly got an issue with intelligent people. Just imagine how many people have seen New Day for the first time this week, whether it was because they tuned into RAW in the expectation of WWE’s “big return” being the most obvious guy for the town that they were in or because they saw a bunch of articles/videos about his return this week – while that segment highlighted their unique chemistry and ability to mock pretty much everyone, after being emasculated both verbally and physically by the guy people know, it absolutely makes them come across as second-rate, which doesn’t benefit anyone.

    Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – As usual with Rock segments, it lasted far too long and featured a ton of nonsense. Let me get this out of the way; I disliked nearly everything the Rock did in this segment. It started with him being a dick to the Miz and Big Show, though at least those were tolerable. Then it got bad when he basically called Lana a hoe, insinuating that they hooked up, in front of Rusev, while in a relationship. Poor Lana went from strong female manager to easy hoe in under a year. Rock finally makes it to the ring and says nothing of real entertainment. Then the New Day show up and salvage the entire segment. They were so far ahead of the Rock in terms of quality here. From the classic “watch the product” line to the excellent “Plan B? I already got snipped” remark, the New Day were great. Then Rock started making his penis jokes and the Usos came out and I stopped caring again. As usual with the Rock since 2011, he was outshined by a current star (Cena, Punk and now New Day) on the mic. New Day was great but everything else about this segment was pretty lame.