411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Will We See a Survivor Series Screwjob?

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Mike Chin and Mike Hammerlock!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

Following her UFC 193 loss to Holly Holm, Ronda Rousey is more likely to be a part of WrestleMania 32 in a physical role.

Mike Chin: FACT – I’m answering fact only in the strictest sense of the question. To be clear, I think there’s minimal chance Ronda Rousey is physically involved in WrestleMania 32–between her movie-making schedule and Dana White’s resistance to the idea, I don’t foresee Rousey getting into a WWE ring earlier any earlier than WrestleMania 33. That said, I do feel that the loss to Holly Holm makes Rousey appearing in Dallas marginally more likely. There’s the possibility that folks like Taz were correct that Rousey-Holm was, on some level, a work, in which case it’s possible it was a way for Rousey to step away from MMA to pursue other interests like pro wrestling. It’s also possible that this loss marks the first in what will become a series of chinks in Rouseys’ MMA armor–be it the first in a series of losses, or be it a hit to her mainstream appeal. In any event, I still put the chances our Rousey being physically involved at next ‘Mania at a less-than-ten-percent likelihood. The loss and all of its possible implications and ramifications makes this possibility the slightest bit more likely, though.

Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – If anything, I’d say it’s lessened the chances of Rousey at WM32. Until this weekend she was deemed the baddest woman in the world. Then she ran into a skilled boxer who put out her lights. My assumption is Rousey is going to eat, sleep and shit MMA, improving her boxing skills with the goal of getting back on top of that mountain. WrestleMania is nothing but a distraction. Rousey’s at the crossroads where great fighters prove themselves. How do you bounce back from adversity? Are you going to become a sideshow like Primo Carnera or are you going to rise even higher like Muhammad Ali? Rousey strikes me as a serious fighter. I expect her to be on a quest in 2016 that leaves no time for extraneous crap like pretend grappling. On a side note, since we never actually get a hydroponics question, while hydroponics does offer a method for mass production of fruit and vegetables, soil imparts both taste and nutrition. Till the earth, brother.

You like the idea that the ROH World Title will reportedly be defended at the WrestleKingdom 10 event on January 4th.

Mike Hammerlock: FACT – NJPW plays well with others. Always has. I thought TNA made grievous mistakes in not better leveraging its relationship with New Japan. Failing to push Okada was colossally stupid and it treated NJPW events like short-term cash grabs rather than golden opportunities to grow its business. ROH seems to understand the situation much better. It’s done a great job of marketing itself as the U.S.-based promotion which brings over Tanahashi, Okada and Nakamura. Using the WrestleKingdom platform to feature the ROH title is a logical next step. That’s how you get worldwide exposure without the WWE’s sort of financial overhead. Find great partners and do cool things together. Love the idea of the ROH belt being defended in Japan. Could be the crowning glory for Jay Lethal, long may he reign.

Mike Chin: FACT – I’m fairly neutral on this one, but particularly as WWE (via NXT) broadens it’s scope of bringing in indy and international talent, I do feel this is good for ROH to bolster it’s relationship with NJPW, not to mention that Michael Elgin-Jay Lethal ought to represent the company well and add an additional dimension to WrestleKingdom 10.

WWE made the right call by firing Billy Gunn last week.

Mike Chin: FACT – For better or worse, I can’t imagine that WWE is at any sort of loss for good trainers, given decades of retired or semi-retired performers with diverse talents who aren’t otherwise meaningfully involved in the wrestling business at this time. To be fair, I have no meaningful insight into how good Billy Gunn was at his job, and maybe he did have skills that will be hard to replace. That said, particularly given that WWE has shown a willingness to turn to veterans from the indies and abroad, I struggle to imagine they’ll have a hard time filling Gunn’s void with someone who does not carry with him any of the controversy of Gunn’s PED issues.

Mike Hammerlock: FACT – If you’re going to have a wellness policy, then you need to stick to it. The WWE does not want to be known as the company whose featured employees die young. It’s hard to be entertained when in the back of your mind you’re thinking these guys are racing to early graves. So having some rules and sticking to them makes sense from both a human and business standpoint. On top of that, the WWE especially doesn’t want its trainers passing on the PED legacy to the next generation. It should be noted that if Gunn (aka Monty Sopp) gets clean, I imagine he’ll be welcomed back into the fold. Few things are permanent in pro wrestling. I feel sorry to a degree for Gunn. He’s always come across as this muscle head who kind of needs wrestling more than it needs him. He built his career on his PED-enhanced look. Standing there he always seemed the part, though he never was able to achieve star level. To his credit, he’d try anything to get over. If they had told him that he and Chuck had to do a gay porn video, Billy might have chalked it up to you’ve got to do some crazy stuff to get ahead in this business. Whatever it took to stick around, Gunn would do it. I suspect the WWE feels it needs to watch over the big, dumb galoot a bit, make sure he doesn’t turn into Randy the Ram. So hopefully this has a happy resolution in the future.

SWITCH!

Sunday’s Survivor Series PPV will end is some sort of “screw job” finish.

Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – Went back and forth on this one. It looks like we’re headed toward a Reigns-Ambrose conclusion, which puts wrestling fans on high alert for a screw job finish. Reigns also has so openly resisted the Authority’s advances that it feels like they’re telegraphing the punch. Roman doth protest too much. Surely the WWE has noticed Reigns’ longer promos still go over like lead balloons and that the crowd on Monday was firmly behind Cesaro. A heel turn for him seems logical. On the flip side, crowds love Ambrose. Reigns screwing Dean over would get nuclear heat. Or an Ambrose turn would feel like a total shock. Say it ain’t so, Dean. Yet I’m still picking the no screw job finish. I’m guessing they’ll either try to put over Reigns in a brother vs. brother battle that ends with a handshake and Ambrose holding Roman’s hand high or they’ll give Ambrose the win with some minor interference from some third party. The latter scenario could fuel Reigns’ so-close-so-often story or it could put him on a voyage to the dark side. For the record, I’d turn Reigns if it were up to me.

Mike Chin: FICTION – To be fair, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a screw job finish, and I think a screw job could be both interesting and a good way of re-balancing the top of the card in the absence of Seth Rollins and John Cena. That said, with WWE booking on the whole I’ve found that Occam’s razor holds–the most simple solution is also the most likely one, or to apply it more directly in this case, the most straight forward booking route toward Roman reigning is the most likely. That simplest route sees Reigns get the best of Del Rio, then Owens to win his first world title clean. That said, if Dean Ambrose wins his way into the finals, all bets are off. We could see a straight up, face friend vs. face friend battle for respect, but there’s every possibility of one of the guys turning heel in that scenario to kick start the next couple months of storylines at the main event level.

Raw’s show closing angle between Paige and Charlotte, where they referenced Reid Flair’s death, was in poor taste and will damage the attempted divas revolution.

Mike Hammerlock: FICTION – It was in poor taste, but I don’t think it damaged the divas revolution. I’ve said this before and it bears repeating here: I think the WWE has entered a cycle where the divas will have solid outings during the Sunday spectaculars and then wade through a month of shit in between. It marks a step in the right direction, but it will cause fans to wonder why they’re supposed to care on a regular basis. The underlying problem is that Raw and Smackdown are awful programs. Like the rest of the roster, the divas are caught in that vortex. However, the E deserves some credit for ending a go-home Raw with a divas segment. The execution was awful, but adding variety to the soul-crushingly predictable programming is the right idea. I think it would have worked far better if Paige and Charlotte had their title match to close the show on Monday (giving them main event exposure) and then we got a divas traditional Survivor Series match on Sunday where the whole division could build on the momentum from the Raw match. As for dragging in the Reid Flair overdose, I don’t think that’s necessarily off limits. Yet it came out of nowhere and it has no connection to Charlotte’s character. She hasn’t been wrestling with her own personal demons in the WWE storyline. We haven’t had the door opened on how it’s not easy being Flair prior to this. The overdose reference was really there to make Paige look like a bitch, which is why it was in bad taste. There’s other ways to do that.

Mike Chin: FACT – I feel very, very borderline on this one. I’m actually a bit of an apologist for the Charlotte-Paige contract-signing segment. I liked Charlotte’s emotion. While it was a bit over the top, I generally liked Paige’s heel shtick. I liked the pull apart brawl, that it felt legitimately heated, and that in giving these women the main event spot, it established that WWE really might give this match some time and take it seriously on Sunday. On top of all of that, I have to assume that WWE cleared the references to Reid Flair through both his sister and his father, and assuming that’s the case, I struggle to really call it in bad taste. All of that said, the Reid Flair card feels like one that WWE can really only play once. Now that it’s out there, his name will never have as dramatic effect again for the Charlotte character, and if WWE does keep going to that well, then it really is going to come across as objectively poor taste. Therefore, it feels pretty early in Charlotte’s career to be going that route. I’d argue the Charlotte-Paige issue had enough heat attached to it with the betrayal and the good in-ring work each performer is capable of that bringing in Reid at this point simply wasn’t necessary and may, to address the original topic, hurt the so-called Diva’s revolution in the long term because WWE may have blown every extra bit of heat they can inject in a Charlotte issue too soon.

What is your excitement level for Sunday’s Survivor Series PPV?

Mike Hammerlock: 1 out of 10 – If I didn’t write a wrestling column, I wouldn’t be watching. I’m sure there will be some thoroughly entertaining matches, but the weekly WWE product has become so dreadful I don’t much care. Across the board, the stakes feel low for this event. That’s down to the lack of creative energy. For instance, how are the Brothers of Destruction still walking after Bray Wyatt captured them and drained their powers? Did they escape? Did they regenerate? Is there any hangover effect from what Bray did to them? We really should know these things and we don’t. What we’ve got instead is they were taken, now they’re back and there’s going to be a match. Whoop-te-fucking-doo. The final four in the championship tournament is 75% the same as the #1 contender’s tournament they ran a few weeks back. It’s lazy storytelling, which means I’m not invested in the story.

Mike Chin: 6 out of 10 – Survivor Series does have potential. There’s the promise of a new world champion (and assuming it’s not Del Rio, it will be a first time world champion, which is cool). Charlotte-Paige could be very good. I’m a Brothers of Destruction mark so their showdown with the Wyatts could be fun. All that said, in this day and age it’s tough for me to truly, fully mark out for a PPV that doesn’t have a Brock Lesnar appearance, or multiple matches that I feel confident will perform at the four-star-plus level. I’m hoping for the best–and this past Monday’s tournament matches do offer some reason for optimism–but not getting ahead of myself with my excitement for this show.