Ask 411 Wrestling 10.17.12: Shawn’s Smile, Hogan’s Breath, Spike’s Bleep, More!
It is extremely hot right now.
I mean, welcome to Ask 411 Wrestling, your Tara Celebration headquarters and all that, but sweat is literally running down my face as I type this. Hopefully my sugarless caffeinated beverage will cool me down, but even so, it’s still very hot where I am as I write this. And given that I write this of an evening, that makes it that much worse.
So, because of the heat, this is a Total Opinion Week, not that it matters THAT much, given my recent output. But hey, if you want to change that by submitting some fact based questions that aren’t mere counting, you can email me at [email protected].
Or, in the event you like my opinions, tune into Just Another God Damned Rasslin’ Show to hear more of them. Or, if you prefer other people’s opinions, there’s 411mania’s podcasts. And if you want straight interviews, there’s the Wrestling PodClash. You’re spoilt for choice!
Except when it comes to Banner. You only need one there.
411 on Twitter!
Me On Twitter~!
Too Many Videos!: Well, see I put in lots of videos when I’m not so sure about the quality of the column, and/or when they are actually relevant. But fair enough, I’ll try and limit myself. Heck, it’ll make all my funny videos last that much longer…
The Brahma Bull Belt: I didn’t intend to imply the belt never existed, for the record. But Brandon was kind enough to send in a photo, viewable right here! So there you go.
Your Turn, Smart Guy…
Who am I? I’m an alumni of CHIKARA, ROH and CZW. I’ve served in the military. I’ve wrestled under a mask at one point, although not for long. I have two daughters, and 4 men who I’ve won tag title gold with. I’ve won a couple of tournaments in my time, although none of them were for title belts. I’ve beaten Chris Hero under European Rules, and in my last match for a major indy company, I lost to the answer to this question from 2 weeks ago. Who am I?
Elden Awesome got it.
Who am I? I’m an alumni of CHIKARA, ROH and CZW. I’ve served in the military – United States ArmyI’ve wrestled under a mask at one point, although not for long – CP MunkI have two daughters – Mary and Amy4 men who I’ve won tag title gold with – Mad Man Pondo, Nick Gage, Brodie Lee, and Toby KleinI’ve won a couple of tournaments in my time, although none of them were for title belts – CZW Tournament of Death and King Of The Deathmatch I’ve beaten Chris Hero under European Rules – IWA: Midsouthand in my last match for a major indy company, I lost to the answer to this question from 2 weeks ago – Joey Ryan in PWG.Who am I? Necro Butcher
Who am I? I was born in a city that is unusual, if you’re interested in the minutiae of American local government. Although I am announced as hailing from my home town, like most wrestlers I now live in Florida. I was the first person in my state to do something while under the age of 18. My independent wrestling ring name developed over time, as I began with one half by itself, before I added the other half later on. I was part of one of TNA’s firsts, and when I debuted in ROH, I came in with a manager. In Dragon Gate I was part of a stable with a 4 word name. My younger brother is also a wrestler, and I’m currently on the WWE payroll, I am who?
Questions, Questions, Who’s Got The Questions?/My Damn Opinion
Kevin starts us off with a couple of hot button topics.
For once I am not asking WCW/WWF questions…..Though I have some.
Part of me understands why TNA put the belt on Hardy, he is over (except in Phoenix) but he may be leaving and let’s be honest having Hardy as champ or even in TNA will do nothing for the ratings. If he stays and is not champ he will still move merchandise. I really see no upside in having him as champ. It is particularly grating as Aries could have been cemented as a great champ if he had beat him cleanly here and also TNA has been pretty damn good lately but they still insist on putting guys like RVD, Hardy and Anderson over more often than not and it makes no sense.
So….Do you think putting the belt on Hardy was a good idea?
Like most booking decisions, the answer about if it’s a good idea or not depends on where they go next. Certainly for the move to be a good one, in my mind, Hardy has to lose the belt at Turning Point, which does have some negative feedback on the fact that your Wrestlemania level event will have featured a title change that is quickly reversed.
To clarify, I think if this leads to Aries turning full bore total heel and him, say, joining Aces and Eights in exchange for their help in getting him the title, if A Double and 8’s (… That does work…) beat up Hardy at Turning Point and put him out of the company and then Aries goes full bore Austin Starr as Champ, then I can see the justification for Hardy winning, as it’s the Austin losing at 3 Stages of Hell booking, Aries had to lose in order to get desperate enough to join the enemy.
However, that is the only outcome I can think of that makes the title change totally acceptable. There are other outcomes which make it defendable (if someone like Abyss or Bully Ray is the one to join A&8, or even if you just have some new heel take the belt and Hardy’s scalp at the same time) but on the whole, I still agree with the statement that out of the 4 possibilities that the Bound for Glory Series gave us they went with the one that was the 4th most interesting, and that was by a long, long way. I’m not a fan of it, but I might be able to see the logic in it, and if Aries joins A&8 within a month, I’ll be fine with it.
WWE pretty much sucks ass. But Vince DEMANDS change. And nothing…..Cena comes out and does his usual shitty promo cracking shitty jokes. Punk is seen as a coward. I don’t get it. Ultimately, the buck stops with Vince but he lays the blame everywhere else. At least to me this guy is really, really out of touch, almost like he is sabotaging his own product out of spite. WCW got shit for being a one hit wonder with the nWo. Um Vince v. Austin….That’s it. Every other good idea gets aborted by HHH or Cena in weeks.
Do you think Vince has lost touch? What is his deal? He has to realize that attendance, buyrates and ratings are down, and yet it is the same thing over and over. Everytime they mix it up (Punk and Lesnar) they kill it and go back to the same old shit. I mean: Larry King? Are you fucking serious?
The idea that Vince McMahon has lost it and that the person speaking knows better is a common thread here in the IWC, both as a sarcastic parody and also as a legitimate opinion people have. Although most of the time those who think they do know better than Vince tend to lay out plans that consist of little more than “Turn Cena Heel, then Fire Him, bring back the Cruiserweight Title and run Bryan V Punk for the next 5 years”. Which you’re entitled to believe in, even if I think that’s, respectively, questionable and then stupid, pointless, and really really stupid.
But anyway, has Vince lost it? Has he lost his touch?
Yes and no. See, the thing about Vince is that while he has good ideas and bad ideas, his best work is when he perfects something, rather than invents something. You look at the best things he’s done, Hulkamania, Attitude, Summer of Punk ’11 (up to when Punk came back), whatever it is, it’s normally a case of him taking a performer, or an idea from somewhere else and then tweaking it, or pushing it, of giving it to someone else, or whatever it is. He’s a genius, but most of that genius is seeing what doesn’t work and fixing it.
So what happens when he stops looking outwards? When he stops listening?
I obviously can’t say for sure what is going on, I’m not there in the trenches with Vince, but I think due to the strain of running the company with only himself at the top, even with Triple H beginning to take some strain, plus outside factors like 3 Hour Raws and the whole Network debacle, I think that he has certainly lost a step or 3.
However, the company isn’t losing millions, nor is there a wolf at the door, looking to kick it in. So I’m not sure he’s going to wake up any time soon. After the election will be key, because he’ll either get his wife back or he’ll now be in Washington a bit, and so either outcome could, conceivably, help out. Or make things much, much worse. Hard to tell.
So yeah, he’s not the man he once was, but I think the circumstances play a part in that. It’s not just that he’s insane. I hope.
Bill asks about possible reigns.
Thanks for doing this column. One of my all time favorites is Curt Hennig, Mr. Perfect. Is Perfect’s never holding the WWF Championship a result of him “not needing it”, as he was already over. I mean he ran with the AWA title for over a year. Was there ever any thought given to it? They ranked him higher than Cena, Flair, and Hogan on the greatest superstars DVD. Was that more a result of politics or they realize now what they had. Like selling all your Comic books at a flea market?
Perfect did have a shot, Perfect could have been Champ going into Wrestlemania 6. One of the original plans was for Perfect to win the title off Hogan than transitional it to Warrior at Wrestlemania. That way they would have played it safe and not possibly split the fanbases. But then Hogan/Perfect didn’t exactly go perfectly in terms of heat and so one day Patterson said “Why not just do face/face?” and the rest is history.
But Perfect’s peak as a worker was at a time that heels didn’t win the WWF title, or at least didn’t hold it for very long. So once the transitional champ spot was lost, he just wasn’t going to hold the belt. But then he was the IC champ for yonks, back when that was a big deal. So it’s not the end of the world.
And him being that high in the Top 50 thing was due to the way they worked out that list. They went to the roster and asked them to rate their favourite superstars of all time.
That’s it. No other specifications. That’s why that list was so wonky, because it was so subjective and so specific. The current roster would provide a different list, and if that roster had been told “Who’s the Best Wrestlers Ever?” that would also provide a different list.
Also, was he really childhood friends with another favorite, Rick Rude? I know they are both from Minnesota. Same question for Rude, if time allows. Was there thought of giving him the Eagle belt either before the Warrior’s reign or having him go over the Warrior? Thanks for any info.
Not so much, no. Maybe when Warrior was champion there might have been some mild discussion, but there was never a point where Rude was in line for the belt, no. It just wasn’t the business model of the WWF, the WWF was built around face champs. Rude would not have sold too many lunch boxes.
Although he’s one of the rare guys who was used better in WCW than in WWF, in the end…
Richard asks about old school promoters.
Hi Mathew! Here’s a question that might prove to be difficult.
At a concert last night, John Darnielle, the lead singer of the band
The Mountain Goats, started telling stories about growing up watching
wrestling in Indiana and, later, on the West Coast. He said that his
step-father’s father was a promoter in Indiana. Some quick research
reveals that the step-father was a man named Mike Noonan. I’m trying
to figure out who the promoter from Indiana might have been. Any
Actually that doesn’t help that much, in that WWA, World Wrestling Association was the territory there, and that was Dick Afflis (Dick The Bruiser) and Wilbur Snyder. And Jim Barnett before them. So I don’t know what company this Mike Noonan ran. Certainly there’s lots of outlaw promotions around, WWA was an AWA affiliate, so maybe Noonan ran the outlaw company. But I wasn’t able to find anything. Readers?
DCMxyzptlk asks about contract law.
The recent Chikara King of Trios has left me confused. Several former WWF/E Superstars appeared on the show, including Tito Santana, 1-2-3 Kid, Tatanka, Demolition, Meng, and…Aldo Montoya. I’m confused as to how some names created by the WWE were allowed to be used (Kid and Montoya being two examples), while Haku had to use his WCW name. Also, didn’t Bill Eadie and Randy Culley lose a lawsuit with the WWE a few years back?
It’s a matter of names that are actually locked up in contract or not. Most of those names are from before the point when WWE would lock down everything about a wrestler that they could, back before they would copyright and trademark wrestlers names, such that they would be able to use them later. At least, that’s the theory, I’d have to look at their WWE contracts to make sure.
Kid I assume is safe since he was The Lightning Kid elsewhere, and 123 Kid is a continuation of that? Montoya I guess WWF never signed up.
Haku, on the other hand, did sign up with WWF in 01, so they might have locked down that name then, and/or he chose to go by Meng instead.
As for the Demolition lawsuit, Bill Eadie did file a claim on the Demolition gimmick and trademarks in the mid 90’s, and did indeed lose that lawsuit. However, recently WWE and Demolition seemed to come to an agreement, given that Demolition has appeared in WWE video games and have an alumni page and everything, so presumably they came to a deal wherein both sides have access to the name and everyone is happy.
WWE legal issues are always so iffy, given that they have different terms and timing and it’s always a problem as to who owns what. If anyone out there has hard facts in this, you’re more than welcome to let me know.
Jorge has a few big ones to tackle.
You’re column is a must-read every week. Thanks for your hard work and keep it up! I have a few questions for you…
What would Wrestlemania 13 have looked like had HBK not lost his smile?
Bret Hart snapping Shawn Michael’s foot in the sharpshooter, one way or the other. The original plan was for Bret to win back his title, presumably setting up a rubber match, perhaps, later on. But at the time he lost the smile, the title match was actually decided to be Taker V Sid, supposedly, with Bret/HBK II: Iron Harder being the semi-main. And the finish would be that Shawn would have a gimmicked boot that Bret would ‘snap’ and give Shawn a reason to give up that was acceptable to the fans. (although I’ve also heard that to be the finish for their KOTR match, so who knows). Of course, Shawn has said that that match was never going to take place, and that he was going to win.
Yes, he’s said both those things. In the same interview, in fact.
Of course, you wonder where Austin is in that, and logically that’s with Vader, stemming from Final Four. Or maybe Owen, that’s the other possible option. 13 was a card that kept changing, so it’s hard to say for sure. But Bret/HBK and Taker/Sid were the mains, just a case of who had the belt.
Wrestlemania 14 had Bret not jumped-ship to WCW?
Austin beating the crap out of Bret to win the title in the main event. Shawn… That really, REALLY depends on if he was hurt or not. Or if he was still in the company, if Bret sticks around, that isn’t a given. Owen I guess, but then again Owen’s program with DX began because Bret left, so if Bret stayed…. DX V Owen/Bulldog? I dunno, beyond Austin getting the win over Bret, WM14 isn’t as well known as 13.
Do you believe the 2005 Royal Rumble ending was the planned ending or a huge botch that they had to scramble to fix?
Huge Botch. If it was legit, Vince would have been ready and warm to come out, and thus probably wouldn’t have torn his quad. Both Cena and DAVE have at points admitted the finish wasn’t meant to happen that way. DAVE stumbled back and then hit the ropes, and regardless of what the plan was, for Cena to drop out, both to go to the apron or DAVE to hit the move, once he hit the ropes, he was going over, thanks to Cena’s body weight on his upper body.
It was a well done cover by the refs at Vince’s order, but it was a shoot botch.
If Linda wins her Senate election this time, how do you see that directly & indirectly impacting the WWE product creatively and otherwise?
That’s the $64,000 question, huh? What will happen if Linda McMahon becomes a senator?
Honestly, in terms of the in ring product, you’re not going to see THAT much of a difference, if only because Mattel has a firm grip of WWE by the… smooth flesh colored plastic area. If Linda wins, then sure, even if Mattel leaves, WWE will still stick to a safe PG level, but if she loses, you won’t see Attitude 2.0 suddenly. Although you will see a lessening of the rush to remove Attitude Era videos off Youtube.
But yeah, WWE has dug themselves deep into the PG bedrock, so regardless of Linda’s success of failure, they aren’t going to move out of it. If she loses they may flirt with the line between PG and TV-14, but they will stay on the PG side.
However, I think that if she wins, Vince will, be necessity, have to take a step back. Sure, he’ll remain as Chairman/CEO, but he’ll also have duties as a Senator’s husband to live up to, dinners and the like, so you may well see a quicker than expected switch to the HHH/Steph partnership. Not a full switch, but I’d expect Vince to take a lesser role in the day to day running, more focused on just the TV shows, which is… Good…
But overall, not much will change, win or lose. Linda’s Campaign was a major reason to go PG, but now they are there, they can’t just up and leave when they want. There are consequences for actions…
So, I include this, not because of him being World Champ at 0:30, although that is cool, but because of 1:00.
Deadpool is a John Cena fan? I always thought he’d be a Paul Heyman guy. But then, Deadpool is all about being paid, so I can see why he’d be in the Cenation…
And this… You really can find anything and everything on Youtube…
Stephen asks about The Miz.
Love the column etc.
My question is about the Miz. What happened?!? I don’t recall anything like it before. I know part time fans who absolutely loved him, he was white hot, and by all accounts his promotional work outside the ring was on a par with Cena for a time. 5 minutes later he’s just another upper mid card heel. Maybe im missing something but any chance of an in depth look at how he went from white hot to meh in a few months?
(Hey, some promos are just so good you gotta include them…)
Anyway, Miz is one of those self-fulfilling prophecies that WWE specialises in. They pushed Miz to the main event, where he, as a heel, was cowardly and, as you say, was unable to beat Jerry Lawler without help. But then, all heels in WWE are like that, so whatever. The thing is, Miz basically forced WWE’s hand by his in ring work, his mic work, and due to his cross over appeal. So they put the belt on him. He was the champ!
And then they took it off him.
Now, supposedly, people were already a little tired of him even then, due to getting a backstage rep, apparently. So he may or may not received a slight depush to test the waters.
And suddenly he lost some motivation. Why, you’d think he was getting depushed or something!
And so, after time off for his movie, he came back, and his in ring work and mic work had by now dropped off, WWE felt no need to re-insert him in the main event. And that just further reinforced the notion that he was motivated.
WWE does this a lot, they’ll tell you hard work pays off, give you some pay off, yank the rug out from under you and then apparently they expect you to work back up again and be grateful for it. As opposed to, you know, pushing you further when you pay off the pay off.
But yeah, Miz got backstage heat that led to a depush which led to his work dropping off which led to a bigger depush. That’s the gist of it.
Ben wants to talk ECW TV.
I’ve begun collecting ECW events and PPVs. My question is – were the weekly TV shows just edited versions of the monthly events and PPVs? Or did any TV episodes feature additional matches?
*fires up History of WWE*
Let’s take a random episode of Hardcore TV, shall we?
Hardcore TV – 1/23/96 – featured the Rob Van Dam vs. Axl Rotten match taped 1/6/96 at the ECW Arena; included a video package highlighting the recent return of Shane Douglas, injury to Francine, Cactus Jack & Mikey Whipwreck becoming ECW Tag Team Champions, Raven costing Whipwreck the ECW TV Title, the Taz / 911 feud, and Beulah McGillicutty announcing Tommy Dreamer was the father of her child; featured the announcement that Dreamer and a partner of his choice would face Cactus & Mikey at the ECW Arena the following Saturday; included a silhouette of Beulah, appearing to be naked, telling Dreamer she’s loved him since she was 10 years old; featured Lance Wright promoting the ECF’nW T-shirt; included the Taz vs. Hack Meyers match taped 1/6/96 at the ECW Arena, followed by Taz’s post-match promo; featured an ad promoting the ‘Fonzie Must Die!’ T-shirt; included an ad promoting the Gangstas Paradise VHS; featured highlights from the Sabu vs. Stevie Richards match taped 1/6/96 at the ECW Arena; included an ad promoting House Party 96 on VHS; featured an ad promoting the November to Remember 95 VHS; included highlights from the ECW World Champion the Sandman vs. Konnan match taped 1/6/96 at the ECW Arena; featured Wright promoting the Buh Buh Ray Dudley T-shirt; included closing comments from Dreamer & Beulah, Raven, Richards & the Blue Meanie, Bill Alphonso & Taz, the Pitbulls & Francine, Perry Saturn & John Kronus, Dreamer, JT Smith, and a final segment showing Douglas accepting Dreamer’s search for a partner to face Cactus & Whipwreck, with Douglas saying whichever one of them wins a singles title first gives the other a title shot
And if you look at House Party 1996, you find a bunch of matches that were used, in clip form, on the Hardcore TV. Heyman used Hardcore TV as a giant ad for the shows, the entire thing was like a clip show designed to make you buy the tapes of the events.
Of course, this changed when ECW went to TNN, or at least, was supposed to. ECW on TNN was supposed to be all new product, brand new matches and the like, not just clips. First night out? Heyman didn’t like the matches they taped, so he put on RVD vs Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven 99, 2 or 3 months old. Superb match, sure, but the exact opposite of what TNN asked for.
But as far as Hardcore TV is concerned, they did occasionally use a match from an otherwise unremarkable show, but most of the time, it was major shows, clipped.
Ray asks another What If?
Love the column, and this is the second question that I’ve ever posted, but I was reading a recap on the site, and it got me wondering – if Eddie had never passed, would we have ever seen Vickie Guerrero on WWE TV? I have long been of the opinion that the only reason she made it on TV in the first place was a gesture from the company to help her out financially after the sudden death of her husband. Anyhow, what is your opinion?
Agreed. Given how badly she messed up her first major appearance on WWE PPV…
I don’t think, if Eddie was still around, she would have gotten a second chance, unless Eddie felt he needed support on the road or something.
By all means, she’s blossomed, and I’d have her on my show in a heartbeat, but she only got in because WWE brought her in as a favor, and then she became a woman who can get this sort of reaction.
But without Eddie passing on, I doubt she would have been there.
Joshua takes us to Raw as a general concept.
Hey man, so here’s my question. Why didn’t Spike tv keep WWE? Or was it that WWE left Spike? Seems like Spike was interested in keeping wrestling. They debut TNA shortly after RAW left and even advertised TNA during the final RAW (or so I was told, never saw it for myself).
Spike would have loved to have kept WWE around. But Vince is/was/ever will be all about the MUN-ay, which is what brought him to Spike in the first place. Raw’s contract was up back in 2000, and Vince decided the company needed more money, so he shopped Raw around, with TNN/Spike paying more than USA. So Raw moved.
But then, after 5 years, when it came time to sign a new deal, WWE asked for a 40% rise, despite ratings dropping 40% over the 5 years. Spike liked wrestling, but wasn’t willing to pay that kind of money, whereas USA and WWE were able to work out a deal. Not sure if it was the same figure, but it was more than Spike was offering.
Spike then went to TNA since it was cheaper, and although the ratings weren’t as good, the money was better and they had/have a closer relationship with TNA, given TNA’s relative size.
As for ads during the last Raw… I suppose it’s possible, given the deal was made a few months prior. But I didn’t see any, for obvious reasons.
Also, what was the deal with Spike bleeping out Vince when he said they were returning to USA? They have to had know that they were going to advertise the fact that they were leaving right?
Yes, they knew. Hence the bleeping. Both sides were childish there, with Spike trying to cover up the move, and WWE thinking people were so stupid that they needed to be bashed over the head with the move. They did come to a deal by the last half hour, which featured approximately 11 billion references to USA Network in it.
Spike wanted to limit the damage. I can see that, but on the other hand, WWE was going to do what they did regardless, and they came off looking like the bad guys.
As a bonus question, if USA network were to fold (USA, not NBC Universal) where do you think RAW would end up?
Well, since Raw came back to USA, WWE and NBC-Universal have become locked up tight with each other, so it’d be to one of those channels. And looking at the options, it would be either Syfy or G4. Given that Syfy already has Smackdown, it might make sense to put it there, but honestly, I’d expect it to go to G4. They market towards young men and gamers, and WWE markets to kids, who like video games and who always like what older kids like, so it would make sense.
Ace has a very silly question.
Did the National Wrestling Alliance ever feel tempted to sue the 1980’s rap group N. W. A. For use of their trademark or intellectual property? Silly question but I always wondered of the wrestling NWA felt tempted to sue.
Nope, because of how copyright laws work, in regards to abbreviations. Abbreviations don’t count as infringement unless the two companies work in the same field. So NWA the rap group, NWA the wrestling organisation, and NWA the airline all can’t sue because none work the same field.
However, if I started up a Non Whites Allowed rap group, a Nightly Wrestling Association wrestling company and a New Wales Airline, then I’d be sued three times over.
Kevin wants to talk IC title.
I remember watching in early 1997 that at the Final Four PPV HHH was
to defend the Intercontinental Championship against Ahmed Johnson. HHH
ended up losing the title to The Rock a few days before that. Do you
know why they had HHH lose the championship? And was there any plan
for Ahmed to feud with HHH?
Because Shawn lost his smile.
Seriously, this took place on the special ‘Thursday Raw Thursday’ show, a.k.a Titan Strikes Back, a.k.a the show Shawn Michaels lost his smile on. Raw was moved to Thursday due to the annual dog show, with the possible floating of a permanent day change due to Nitro, but mostly it was a live special Raw, designed to be a big deal to help right the ship after WCW had begun to attack. And because of the show’s importance, WWF wanted a title change. That was set to be Sid beating Shawn for the WWF title, with HHH preparing for Ahmed Johnson by taking on Aldo Montoya. But then Shawn got a boo boo, so he had to forfeit the title, and so, in order to have a title change, that young kid Rocky Maivia won the title on a fluke. I wonder if he went on to do anything else?
Rob asks if Taker has put over enough people.
Love the column, always look forward to reading it.
During Wrestlemania my friends and I were discussing Undertaker and The Streak. Now every one of them was of the opinion that Taker should retire with The Streak intact, they not only believed this is what would happen but that this is what should happen. I seemed to be alone in the opinion that The Streak should be used to put somebody over on Taker’s way out the door, as that is what’s right for the business. Yes, there’s the concern of “but what if that person leaves the WWE at some point?” Well that’s always a concern whenever you put anybody over, you can’t approach things in that manner or you’d never make any new stars.
This got me thinking about exactly who the Undertaker has ever made. And I when I say made, I mean given the rub cleanly to a newer wrestler to help establish them.
Mankind won his first match with Undertaker, but only after Paul Bearer turned on Taker and cost him the match. Besides which, escaping a Boiler Room does not carry the same weight as a pin-fall or submission.
Now clearly Undertaker had a huge part to play in making Kane, although the full weight of the WWE-machine was behind getting Kane over. But Undertaker beat Kane clean in both their Mania match and then in their re-match.
I can only think of Taker losing to Brock Lesnar in 2002 and then Randy Orton in 2006. Am I missing anyone? And in a 22 year career, is that enough?
Actually, Mankind beat Taker at King of The Ring prior to the Boiler Room match.
But Taker helped make Batista in 07, Kozlov in 09, The Great Khali in 06, JBL in 04 (the gimmick was new, even if the wrestler wasn’t), and Booker T in 01. With different levels of success.
I’m sure some people will debate those below.
Adam has a simple question.
That last video made me think of something: Quick easy one… who used the Sharpshooter/Scorpion Deathlock first, Bret Hart or Sting?
I have to bow to JR, or at least a guy JR believes. As part of a JR Q&A…, and I quote:
Sting used the Scorpion Deathlock before Bret Hart, who debuted the move as his new finisher at the TV tapings following WrestleMania VII in 1991. Ronnie Garvin and Riki Choshu used the move before Sting AND Hart however.
And yeah, in Bret’s book, Patterson flat out asks Bret if he can do a ‘Scorpion Death Lock’. So that kinda nails it.
Shay finishes with a booking possibility.
First of all love the column, secondly I don’t think anyone should end the Undertakers streak but here’s my suggestion for the WWE to have their cake and eat it too. Next Wrestlemania Undertaker Vs Cena because let’s be honest no other Main eventer would be believable ending the streak. After a hard fought match which Taker wins, Taker is slumped in the corner half dead when all of a sudden music hits and out strolls Cody Rhodes, He challenges Taker to a match “right here, right now”. Taker, of course is in no condition to respond. Cody enters the ring and over the mic yells “it’s on” he then pounces on Taker in the corner pounding him with the Mic a couple of times drags him to his feet, hits the crossroads and counts the 3 count himself.
Now you have an up & comer claim he beat the Undertaker on the Grandest stage of them all while maintaining Undertakers perfect record.
By the way it doesn’t have to be Cody, any up & comer will do he was just the first name I thought of.
I have heard a lot of stuff like this, have someone draw with him, have a DQ win or something, but I always say that if you’re gonna do it, you have to do right full bore. There is no point, in my mind, having it both ways, having it where someone can ‘claim’ they beat him if they didn’t really.
If you want to break the Streak, break it. Have someone beat him, clean as a sheet. The most shifty I’m willing to go is if he somehow wins the Rumble, wins title, then someone cashes in Money In The Bank, effectively elevating them from guy to GOD in one move, in a very slimy way.
But no, I don’t like half-hearted breakings. I could see that happening, sure, but I don’t like it.
But maybe you do. Feel free to say so below. Until next week, I’m still very hot, so remember, October 25th I’ll be on Aussie TV, and I’ll see you all next week.