Ask 411 Wrestling: Can Roman Reigns Be Improved?

Welcome to the only wrestling column that thinks listening to John Cena lecture the roster about dissatisfaction is kinda like listening to Hannibal Lecter lecture about dining etiquette, Ask 411 Wrestling!

… OK, maybe not, but I just liked that line.

Before we get to business, if you happen to be a fan of this wrestling thing and can read German, Stefan who asked a question about the origins of the word Kayfabe to help with his Master Thesis has finished that off and published it as an ebook, and you can buy it rightchere, so go take a look and support a fellow Ask 411 fan!

Now, I’ll level with you, despite being back for just a couple weeks, I’m taking yet another week off next week, and I’ll be handing the reigns over to Caliber Winfield, a new guy round these parts who was eager to give this a shot, so I hope you’ll give him a try as an Xmas present to me.

Got a question? Send it on over to [email protected] and I’ll answer it! Simple as that!

Banner is not simple, but still elegant.

Zeldas!

Check out my Drabble blog, 1/10 of a Picture! I’ll be doing another Xmas series like I did last year that seemed popular enough starting today. Hopefully.

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Feedback Loop

Kurt Angle: I guess you can include him in the list of ‘Hate This Babyface’, but he didn’t last one match before turning on the fans so…

Roman Reigns: Yes, promoters have chosen who they want to make a star throughout wrestling history, and the Reigns push is working. My issue is that from what I’ve seen of Reigns work so far, he doesn’t have the charisma of a Hulk Hogan, or the storytelling of a Bret Hart, nor the Cenaness of John Cena. And so the push will fall flat. But I’m willing to admit I’m wrong if he rises to the occasion.

The Trivia Crown

I was born in the Western Hemisphere. I’ve wrestled (and won titles) all over the world, but I’m best remembered for my time in WWE, WCW, ECW and TNA. I’ve made successful teams with former World Champions and Intercontinental Champions, but only won singles championships in one of the four promotions mentioned above. However, I’ve won a singles championship by beating a current member of the Lucha Underground roster and won another without a single wrestling move, then lost it to a current WWE employee. One of my gimmicks was based around a real personal incident. During one of my most memorable runs (for kayfabe and real life reasons) I took two very important things from a former WWE champ and faced the “wrath” of two other WWE champs. My last match in a REAL major wrestling promotion was a win against someone who is an active wrestler and who did something no one else will ever do regarding the “Big 3.” Oh, and contrary to some people might think, I’m not related to any Diva. Who am I?

DarthDaver has the answer.

I was born in the Western Hemisphere. (Canada) I’ve wrestled (and won titles) all over the world, but I’m best remembered for my time in WWE, WCW, ECW and TNA. I’ve made successful teams with former World Champions (Rhino) and Intercontinental Champions (Jacques “The Mountie” Rougeau), but only won singles championships in one of the four promotions mentioned above (WCW Hardcore). However, I’ve won a singles championship by beating a current member of the Lucha Underground roster (IWA Intercontinental Title from Ricky Banderas/ Mil Muertes)and won another without a single wrestling move (WCW Hardcore was given by Lance Storm), then lost it to a current WWE employee (Norman Smiley). One of my gimmicks was based around a real personal incident (Wore an eyepatch as a pirate, has a real glass eye). During one of my most memorable runs (for kayfabe and real life reasons) I took two very important things from a former WWE champ (Sunglasses and Leather Jacket from Bret Hart) and faced the “wrath” of two other WWE champs (Shawn Michaels and Diesel). My last match in a REAL major wrestling promotion was a win against someone who is an active wrestler and who did something no one else will ever do regarding the “Big 3.”(Can’t figure this one out…) Oh, and contrary to some people might think, I’m not related to any Diva (Maryse Ouellet). Who am I? (Carl Ouellet)

The last bit was that his last match in a real company was a win over The Giant, who won the WWE/WCW/ECW World Titles.

I’ve got this week’s question.

Who am I? I probably won’t be in this year’s Rumble. I started out as a Mister, and was briefly known by a slightly insulting name. I came close to being an Authority Figure in WWE at one point. I have at least one signature move that has a change in its name depending on if there’s a specific weapon involved or not. I’ve chased after my money, my family and to allow a woman to take her clothes off. I’ve won a majorish title on a double cross, lost it in a ladder match, and nearly got to keep one permanently. A man who is getting on in years and who apparently doesn’t like poetry all too much, I am who?

Getting Down To All The Business

Joesph starts us off with two solid questions that should begat some discussion.

1. We know that the WWE and specifically Vince has more or less always focused on the physique, the physically impressive specimen, the big bodybuilder mold. Vince/WWE has also more or less adopted the mindest that the champion should be a top invincible face who basically successfully defends his title against all comers. I know there are some notable exceptions to these tenants, but I think they both basically hold water.
My question is, is there a connection?
I don’t know if I’m making sense here, but if the NWA had the mindset that the champ is essentially the heel, and people are paying to see the challenger face go AFTER the champ the emphasis appeared to be the on the in-ring action. With the WWE the emphasis always seemed to be more on the spectacle. Is that inherent in the business model?
I mean if I want to push a babyface as invincible . . . he should kind of look the part, yeah? If you had someone like Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior chasing, say, Ted DiBiase, Mr. Perfect, or Rick Rude, (or even Roddy Piper if you want to go back further) fulfilling the basic Ric Flair role is it incompatible to have this muscular mountain of a man constantly chasing the smaller champion? Does going with the big muscular superhero baby face as the center of the company inherently lend itself to that big muscular superhero babyface being the invincible champion nobly turning back nefarious villains who can’t upset that muscular hero?
Hope I’m making sense here.

Absolutely they feed into each other, but it doesn’t have to. I mean, people can, and will, throw shade at Vince for any number of things, but the fascination with muscular giants is not something anyone can argue with up to a point. If you’re pushing someone as being a larger than life superhero who can overcome the odds and fight the good fight and who rescues kittens from little old ladies selling girl scout cookies, or something, it helps if they are seven foot plus and look like they’ve been carved from pure granite.

But by no means is it essential, nor is it a guarantee. And that’s the rub that many people have.

Because you can have the all-powerful babyface hero and not need a Herculean physique and more feet than a centipede. You just need to find something else to sell them on, be it technical prowess (Backlund, Hart), sheer bloody mindedness (Austin), charisma (Michaels, Rock), or just the Odds Overcoming counter set to 99.99% (Cena). They all had better than average bodies, before anyone says something, but they didn’t have Hogan/Luger bodies.

And that’s the flip side, merely having the body doesn’t mean you work out as that role, as Luger and, perhaps, Reigns has/may show. Having the body is not enough, you need some idea of what you’re doing in there, and most of the time, the critics complain, when Vince hired someone for their look for a non-Big Hero role, they sucked at it.

In the end you can argue that when you look for big muscles over other things you tend to go for the Heroic Unstoppable storyline, or that going for that storyline leadsa you to look for big muscles. But given that WWE has in the past pushed guys, quite successfully, as heroes without having to be that particular trope means that they don’t get a free pass based on it. They can push a small guy as the all conqueror, he just has to beat a bunch of guys with Superkicks or something. Being a muscular god helps of course, but it is by no means essential.

2. I’m going to preface this by saying that I understand you don’t have all the facts, your word is not the end-all and be-all of this, and your word is simply the word of one man.
I’ll also say that I know ultimately I have to make this choice myself, but I do feel like asking you for your opinion is warranted here.
I’m a union man, I take workers’ rights and working conditions very seriously. The Punk podcasts have really made me question the labor practices of the WWE. As someone with no firsthand experience working under a WWE contract, but someone who has worked in the business, who has looked at the contract Raven showcased when he brought these issues up, who is knowledgeable about this business . . . is the WWE using unfair labor practices?
Am I supporting an employer that has a company policy of unfair labor practices? I have a problem ethically doing that and–frankly, while I say this with some shame–I have to admit it would be easier than ever for me to walk away from the WWE. Regardless of the phrasing, the reality is I just don’t feel engaged with the product. With that in mind, it would be easy for me to make the ethical decision if these guys are practicing these policies.
I know this is a complex and vague question, so I understand if you don’t want to answer it or feel comfortable answering it. Additionally, like I said, I have to make up my own mind, but I was wondering if you’d like to weigh in.
Thanks.

For my Boring Day Job (TM), I belong to a union there, so while I’m not particularly active in it, I do belong to a union so obviously that might color my judgment/mean you take my opinion, dear reader, with some salt.

My position on unions in wrestling is consistent, in that it’s a good idea and I’d support it but it’ll never happen due to the way the business is currently set up coupled with Wrestling being unique in that talent does not automatically lead to success, so there’s too much opportunity for people to go against the union for personal gain.

However, you’ve asked the question, and it’s my (self-imposed) job to answer it.

Although really there’s two main issues here. The first is the simpler one, in that are you supporting a company with unfair labor practices? If you are of the impression that WWE has unfair practices or is not treating people that work for it fairly, then yes, by consuming their product you are supporting them. Even if you don’t give WWE any money directly, if you watch a youtube video or catch Raw or whatever, that’s supporting them still, albeit weakly.

Now does that mean you should walk away from WWE? If you don’t feel morally comfortable supporting them, absolutely. There is no moral requirement for anyone to support WWE if they disagree with them over something, it’s your time, your money, you can give it to whomever you choose, and if you choose not to give it to WWE because of how it dicks over the wrestlers, that’s totally a fair call to make. Others will agree with you for different reasons (‘Treat Women Better!’ ‘Stop Being Racist!’ ‘Bring Back Wargames!’), and others with disagree with you on the same line of thinking.

You do have to learn to deal with people who disagree with you to survive in the world, since unless you stay home with the blinds drawn, you will interact with someone who you disagree with on some moral position. Same sex marriage, gun control, torture, there’s no end of moral issues that cause disagreements. But day to day, you have to put them to one side and just get on with life. So a moral purist will call you out for not supporting WWE if you still use an Iphone or wear clothes from Bangladesh or something. But at the end of the day, moral purity is nice to have but it’s also impossible to live by.

You can’t expect the world to be perfect, and have to accept some crap. But that doesn’t mean you have to support all the crap.

So to drag this back to wrestling: If you wish to stop supporting WWE, that’s fine. If you decide to keep going, that’s fine too. Provided you are at peace with yourself over it, that’s all that matters.

Maybe not to WWE, sure, but it’s their fault.

OK, that got deep, let’s get back to some much, much lighter stuff. Wil?

Ok this one you’re gonna hate….but I gotta know. Cena’s mantra is ”Never Give Up” right? So when’s the last time Superman lost by submission? Or is the gimmick really been that well protected that in the last 10 years Cena has never tapped out? Thanks for your time sir. Cheers!!

… It’d be Angle, wouldn’t? Back in 03?

*checks profightdb.com*

5 losses by Submission? The heck?

*searches*

No Way Out, 2004. A month before he wins the US title at Wrestlemania XX, he tapped out to Kurt Angle to give Angle the WWE Title shot at WM. Before that, Benoit made him tap on a Smackdown in 03, Kurt made him tap at No Mercy ’03 which was the one I thought it would be, the other two are tag matches further back.

So yeah, he hasn’t tapped since winning the WWE Title, and the only two men to make him submit in his career are Kurt Angle and Chris Stevie Richards.

Let’s have a bunch of cool videos!

Ron wants to talk about REAL World Title belts.

Lots of company’s had a world champion… But not all were really considered a world title. Which ones were considered legitimate world titles, how many are there? (For example AWA was definitely considered a world title… But Jerry Lawlers memphis belt I don’t consider a world champ belt.. Or am I wrong?)

This is one of those questions that should, in theory, be easy to answer. But the problem is that there isn’t an agreed upon definition of a world title that isn’t hideously lopsided (Only the biggest company’s belt counts, say) or hideously open (Any belt that claims to be a world title and has been defended once outside of its home country is a popular one).

My personal justification has always been one that I admit doesn’t stand up to scrutiny but works for me: If a company is big enough that it can call someone a World Champion and not look foolish, it counts. By that count, you’ve had…

World Heavyweight Wrestling Championship as made by George Hackenschmidt in 1905.
NWA World Heavyweight Title flowed from that, and that begat:
WWF Title
WCW World Title
AWA World Title
ECW World Title
TNA World Title

And toss in the WWE World Title (the Triple H awarded one) and you have 8 Titles that I consider to be ‘legitimate’, in so far as titles won in a non-real sport can be. Maybe you can say 9 if you throw in ROH, but that one wavers day to day for me.

But I know someone below will challenge me on this. I, for one, welcome it.

Warhorse needs closure!

Was there ever a big blow off to the Randy savage and jake Roberts cobra dude? I never saw Tuesday in Texas as a kid and always assumed it ended there. I watched it finally today and it was obvious that ppv was just round 1 in the fued.

That was indeed the start of it, as the two would go on to wrestle on almost every house show after the event, either in singles or in tags with Duggan teaming with Savage while Roberts had Undertaker as his partner. Their feud ran through the SUPERB 1992 Royal Rumble, and then it finished up in the main event of the 30th Saturday Night Main Event, the first one not to air on NBC, instead being on Fox.

The show ended with Savage and Liz celebrating, but then the next week on Superstars, they showed Undertaker saving Liz from a Roberts chairshot right after the match.

That then led into the Roberts/Undertaker match at Wrestlemania VIII, although for the weeks between the two events, Roberts mostly fought Savage in steel cage matches. So while the SNME match is the ‘end’ officially, people at house shows saw codas inside steel.

Nightwolf is a victim of timing for the most part…

What would you have done to make the following wrestlers better: Chris Masters,

Well he’s gone now, although they sure as hell should have brought him back when he saved his mother by uprooting a tree.

But honestly, Masters was a perfectly cromulent wrestler when he left the company last time, he’s a guy like Morrison or Benjamin that they could bring back tomorrow and slot into the upper-mid card and he’d be a fresh face on the treadmill and, while not ending the treadmill, would at least give it a little more variety.

Mason Ryan

Ugh.

Honestly being fired is where I’d keep him. But if you insist on bringing him back… Have him become a bodyguard, something where he just has to look impressive and not do much. Maybe have Adam Rose hire him as Party Security to keep away pesky wabbits. Yeah, that’ll do.

Ryback,

Short, decisive matches where he wins strong and quick until you work out what the hell to do with him, either find a storyline where he can be the down to earth good guy he was in that one backstage promo, or pull a Reigns and put him in a face tag team where he can get the hot tag and beat up guys. Maybe he can stand up for Darren Young once they pull the trigger on revealing that he’s the Bunny?

and Roman Reigns? ( yes I’m including Roman Reigns since he apparently isn’t ready to be the face of WWE)

Well he’s not in my book, but WWE’s gonna do it anyway come hell or high water and he’ll get enough of a reaction where they can kid themselves that it’s working. Assuming they don’t let him talk much anymore.

But honestly, Reigns is too locked down now, short an injury or giant lottery win, he’s walking out of WM31 as the champ, so to ‘improve’ him basically comes down to limiting him to catchphrases in terms of promos, and put him in there with really good wrestlers. A jealous Daniel Bryan! An insane Dean Ambrose! A John Cena…

Actually, that would be the best move, in my view. Cena wins the belt at the Rumble, and you run Cena/Reigns at WM. You’re clearly going with the Hogan 2.0 logic, where the New Hotness (Luger/Reigns) steps in to defeat the Dragon (Yokozuna/Brock) that the old hero couldn’t beat (Hogan/Cena). And that kinda failed. But WM6 kinda worked, so why not go the straight swap? Then Brock can lose to say Ambrose where his stupidity finally pays off, and then you can run Ambrose at Reigns with the ‘I beat the guy who beat the old champ so I can beat you’ angle with the Shield stuff as the background, which then gets brought forward when Rollins cashes in, and you eventually build to the three way Shield off at Summerslam. Rusev can be beaten by Bryan for the Euro title at WM in an actual against the odds victory.

That’s what I’d do, anyway.

Connor asks about a famous beef.

Shane Douglas was a bottom of the card guy outside of ECW, why does he think Ric Flair owes him anything? or that Flair tried to sabotage his push in WCW? I never understood the heat between the two of them

There’s conflicting reports, slanted towards either side. Flair basically, as you see in that clip, thinks Douglas was/is just trying to start stuff against someone way out of his league and Flair couldn’t care less.

Douglas has spoken at length about this, shockingly enough, and there’s a couple of stories he likes to tell about Flair lying about watching matches and acting like, well, Ric Flair and losing respect for him. Starting from a point of being a fan and then breaking in as a huge fan of Flair (like 95% of wrestlers were/are), to then see his hero be a jerk, in his eyes, that led to the bitterness. Add in that Douglas felt he was held back and that Flair didn’t let the younger ones reach their full potential in WCW when he was on the booking committee and Douglas was one of the young guys in the midcard, and he has some resentment that he let out in a bunch of promos that gained some notoriety for ECW when it needed it.

Not to say he doesn’t actually have a beef with Flair, but it certainly seemed to be ‘enhanced’ for the sake of controversy from where I sit.

But yeah, personal differences plus perceived professional sabotage.

Manu Bumb asks for timing.

To the best of your knowledge, what was the time-frame for when Paul Heyman was head of Smackdown creative?

Let’s see, when was Smackdown really good…

*1/4 Chandler*

From Heyman’s own mouth in his podcast with Jericho, he took over as head writer of Smackdown when they split the writing team, which was in late May 2002.

He then got demoted around the time of the No Way Out 2003 PPV, due to arguments and such with the other creative department, although at the time it was spun to him becoming a ‘consultant’ to both. He had a brief return in 2005, but from Judgement Day 2002 to NWO 2003 is the period where he had most of his power. And Smackdown was mostly spectacular.

Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo has two questions.

Great column as always, and thanks for answering my questions in the past. Two quick questions:

1) I just watched Bad Blood 2003 for the first time. What was going on with Eric Bischoff and Stone Cold being co-GMs, and having a burping contest?

The thinking was this. Back in 2003, Austin had to retire after Wrestlemania 19 due to the long term impact of his broken neck, coupled with several years of hard wrestling with the remains of a broken neck. But he was still under contract, and although they could have parted ways, at the time Austin and Vince were on good terms and so they reworked the deal to keep Austin around in a non-wrestling capacity.

So, he could become an announcer, which wasn’t likely although would have maybe been cool.

He could have become a ref full time, but that would have led to questions the first time he had to take a bump.

He could have become a ring announcer, but the beer budget alone…

He could have become a manager, and… That could have worked, but nope.

Instead, he became an authority figure, but since Smackdown has a babyface GM in Steph, and they had Bischoff there as a heel GM and they didn’t want to get rid of him just yet, Austin became Co-GM so they could have lots of wacky skits involving Austin and Bischoff not getting along.

The Redneck Triathlon was part of that, since they clearly weren’t getting along but couldn’t fight, you gotta work out some way to have them face off, so why not with some ‘comedy’?

…

I never said it was GOOD thinking.

2) Is there real backstage heat/animosity between Jericho and Goldberg?

There was at one point.

Back in the heady days of 1998, Chris Jericho was the WCW Television Champion, Goldberg was WCW World Champion, and we were all starting to fall in love with Ralphus.

But Jericho, doing his entertaining routine where he managed to have an engaging feud with the other guy not involved in any way (kinda like the time when he feuded with an absent Malenko), then wanted to pay off the angle.

And, in a wrinkle a lot of people forget, Jericho insisted it be on PPV.

After all, he was getting over, and while he had no delusions he would win or even look good in loss, he still felt that the angle was hot enough that people would pay to see him get squashed like a bug. Bischoff and, supposedly, Goldberg, felt otherwise, and when Jericho refused to lose on Nitro, the angle was dropped.

This then led to some heat between the two, where Jericho thought Goldberg arrogant and such, while Goldberg thought Jericho an idiot. Then Jericho jumped to WWF, became a star, and then Goldberg came over in 2003, and almost immediately the two got into a backstage fight that Jericho managed to shut down, before the two hashed it out enough to work together, and now the two have nothing but respect, they’ve put it behind them, they don’t hold grudges, so on and so forth.

We’re building to a big finish with Michael:

You once mentioned that if a finisher is clean and wins it can get over so in your opinion what wrestlers made their finishers and which were made by their finishers?

Guys are rarely made by a finisher solely, at least long term and successfully. Maybe on the indy scene, a really impressive flip might get you some bookings, but you’re not getting to the WWE off one move. However, you can certainly argue that some guys have been really helped by their finishers. Guys like Steve Austin, Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels, having simple but memorable finishers has absolutely helped them get over.

Guys who made their finisher, that becomes a little harder. Obvious cases like Jake Roberts are few and far between, often it’s as much to do with the booking of Bret Hart, Umaga, and The Rock than the person involved that the Sharpshooter, Samoan Spike and People’s Elbow got over.

So yeah, it’s not that common for a Scotty 2 Hotty to get over thanks to the Worm or a Rey Mysterio to get over the 619 by themselves. Usually it’s the booking more than the person involved.

Clearly this is an ROH column, as we’re going past the finishers, thanks to Rahil

How did they pull off the casket match spot where Kane burned the casket at Royal Rumble 98, i.e making sure no one was hurt and how he escaped, because he was not in the casket afterward?

Ever wonder why they locked it there? Why not roll it away and just set fire to it?

Simple magic trick, as Kane and Paul locked the casket, you see them looking down at the ring. There was a false side/bottom, and while they locked the casket Undertaker slid out and then went under the ring. At least, that’s what I presume happened, I wasn’t in the planning meeting obviously, but that’s the usual trick, false bottom.

What’s the deal with buried alive matches, how do they ensure wrestlers safety being covered in all that dirt and being so low down?

Similar deal, when you have a buried alive match you have a false side, designed to look like solid dirt but is actually a false side, so when they get the word, the wrestler slides into the hole and they’re protected. Something like this.

And on that code breaking moment, I bid you goodbye for now. Have a wonderful holiday season, and I’ll see you on New Year’s Eve!