Ask 411 Wrestling: Is An Impact/ROH Crossover Possible?

…

Jinder Mahal.

Jinder Mahal.

Well, that was unexpected. But hey, WWE clearly has a plan, and it worked so well last time in Mexico with Alberto Del Rio, right?

But anyway, welcome to Ask 411 Wrestling. I am your writer, Mathew Sforcina, and let’s forget about Jinder and his win right now, and focus instead on questions that you, the readers, have asked.

Got a question you want to ask? Send it through to [email protected] to get it answered!

NOW EVEN MORE OUT OF DATE BANNER~!

Zeldas!

Check out my Drabble blog, 1/10 of a Picture! My twitter feed thing has stopped working, so do go via here if you want.

Me On Twitter~!
WWE Turn Alerts on Twitter~~!!
http://www.twitter.com/411mania
http://www.twitter.com/411wrestling
http://www.twitter.com/411moviestv
http://www.twitter.com/411music
http://www.twitter.com/411games
http://www.twitter.com/411mma

Feedback Loop

… JINDER MAHAL???

The Trivia Crown

Who am I? I once had a storyline with the above. A former world champion, my first televised match was a victory over a guy whose sole big leagues title reign was a sash. I was one of the guys who got included in a package deal. I debuted in the company I work for now by attacking a guy in a mask, albeit a different mask than the one I wore when I first attacked him years ago. I’ve retired twice now, both times due to injury, one shoot, one kayfabe. A guy who is rich and not-Asian, I am who?

Zach Brinkley is the first answer listed.

Who am I? I once had a storyline with the above. (The Jung Dragons “stalked” Ernest Miller) A former world champion (ROH), my first televised match was a victory over a guy whose sole big leagues title reign was a sash (Allen Funk, who won Miss TNA as “Bruce”) . I was one of the guys who got included in a package deal (His contract was picked up when WWE bought WCW) I debuted in the company I work for now (WWE) by attacking a guy in a mask (Hurricane), albeit a different mask than the one I wore when I first attacked him years ago (When Hurricane was “Sugar” Shane Helms in 3 Count). I’ve retired twice now, both times due to injury, one shoot (his back) one kayfabe. (When Brock broke him) A guy who is rich (His “inheritance”) and not-Asian (part of the Jung Dragons), I am who? Jamie Noble

Who am I? I shared a victory method with the above on a specific PPV. I’ve held two specific royal titles, an inaugural title, and was the first to do something, apart from a guy that doesn’t count. Or the other guy. I’ve been managed by former world champions, both male and female, and everyone I’ve held tag gold with is also a former world champion. I’ve won tournaments, been screwed out of tournaments by people who had previously helped me in said tournaments, and I was WWE Hardcore Champion for a few moments one time. Who am I?

Getting Down To All The Business

Adrian from Ireland starts us off.

I recall watching TNA back in 2005 (I think) and the trio of Alex Shelley, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong showed up for a 6 man match. These guys seemed to be contracted ROH performers at the time and didn’t hang around after. What was the story here ? was it just a once off appearance ?

It was 2006, when Generation NexTNA was a thing for a short while, as Shelly/Aries/Strong formed an unnamed stable in the X Division. They demanded opportunities in the division, and beat Styles, Daniels, and Sabin in a 6 man on Impact.

They opened the first 2006 TNA PPV, Final Resolution (in January…) in another 6 man tag, beating Sabin, Matt Bentley, and Sonjay Dutt (who deserved better).

Now during this time, all three of them were indeed working for ROH as well. But at the time, they were contracted to TNA. Aries signed a contract in September 05, Strong and Shelly also signing contracts in 05 at different points, their contracts non-exclusive ones. They worked for TNA, but they were also allowed to work for smaller companies, of which ROH was one at the time.

That was how the group died in fact, as the month after Final Resolution was Against All Odds. TNA contacted everyone the day before and asked them to get to Florida ASAP because of the potential for a snowstorm to disrupt air traffic. Aries and Strong ignored this edict and stayed in Long Island for a ROH show the night before the PPV.

And surprise surprise, there was a snowstorm, and they were delayed, and arrived four or so hours late. Aries and Strong were both then suspended indefinitely, or at least for a few months. Strong never returned, and when Aries did come back, he was a little… different.

So yeah, at the time, they had deals with ROH and with TNA, but at that point, TNA was bigger than ROH. Or at least TNA thought so.

Along those lines also, given that TNA and ROH have had a working relationship in the past , was there ever talk/rumor of an invasion angle by either company ?

The two have had a tumultuous relationship over the years. It began fairly cordial, with TNA contracted stars allowed to work for ROH, and ROH being ok with that, and then Rob Feinstein happened.

Well he’d happened before, he existed prior to March 2004, but that was when he turned up to a front door with a camera crew waiting for him. Since RF Video was his, and ROH was part of that, TNA pulled all contracted talent from the company.

This was smoothed out by 2005, and the deal was back on, with TNA guys allowed to work for ROH on non-TNA days, and ROH accepting that. And then in 2006, Aries and Strong stayed for the ROH show, which annoyed TNA, and then ROH started to move into PPV, so TNA pulled all their contracted talent again.

Then for a long time, nothing happened. Or at least, nothing seemed to be happening.

2015 was the next time that anything cropped up, as stories leaked out about how apparently TNA had indeed contacted ROH ‘multiple’ times, supposedly, over the past year/s, to run an invasion angle, but it never really went anywhere. And then ROH did a deal with Destination America, and TNA, already on thin ice with the station, pitched for an ROH guy to come in and attack a babyface and then put over the TNA guy on TNA TV.

ROH didn’t bite on that, for some reason.

I vaguely recall TNA trying a few different options before they finally settled on the Global Force ‘invasion’ that occurred.

But skip ahead again a bit, and suddenly Cody is on both brands, and Broken Matt Hardy appears to taunt the Bucks of Youth, cooperation! Working Together! Hope! Possibilities!

The relationship soured pretty quickly, and now they’re somewhat cooled.

So yes, there has indeed been discussions and attempts at crossover angles, mainly TNA wanting ROH guys to come over, not really the other way.

Speaking of guys not wanting other guys over, Nightwolf asks about a couple things.

1. I read somewhere that right before he died, Eddie Guerrero was going to wrestle HBK at WM 22. Was there any truth to this?

Maybe? There’s conflicting reports, or at least, there’s reports that seem to contradict each other but can fit together. See, Shawn Michaels has done Q&A evenings, and at one in the UK in 2015, he was asked about that. And his answer was, and I quote from the second hand report:

Shawn was asked about his supposed WrestleMania 22 match with Eddie Guerrero. Shawn says that he was told about all of his matches and had some input into them, and says that he was never once told that Eddie was going to be his opponent.

That would seem to be cut and dried. But the thing you’re probably thinking of was from a couple years before that on Court Bauer’s podcast, where he discussed this topic, as he was a writer in WWE from 2005 through to 2007. And I quote from second hand sources once again:

“It was 24 hours before he passed away, I believe. 24 hours, 48 hours, something like that. We had a call with Vince at home, and we were talking about the preliminary plans for WrestleMania. I know there’s this romanticized story about how Eddie was going to get the title, and that was the plan that he was going to get it that night or at Survivor Series. That wasn’t the plan. I think Stephanie said that, or alluded to it on the air, and that was not the plan. The plan was that he would lose, and I think they were going to return in December. We had talked about a fascinating idea; I’m not the biggest Bruce Pritchard fan, but to his credit, I believe it was Bruce Prichard who pitched putting Eddie Guerrero at WrestleMania against Shawn Michaels and doing the parallels of their careers. Being the heartthrob in Mexico and this mercurial figure south of the border, and the American version being HBK. They had never really worked, and you would’ve had such a great dynamic between the two with heel Eddie versus Shawn. That’d be your ‘tear the house down,’ high quality match at WrestleMania 22 in Chicago. Vince was like, ‘God damn, that’s really appealing. We could parallel their careers. What kind of footage of Eddie do we have outside of WCW? We could really do some impressive packages.'”

So yes, what seems to be possible is that right before Eddie died, this idea was floated, and it was then perhaps sent for development/testing to see what sort of footage they had, and then before they got to the point where they would go to Shawn and say “Hey, we think you and Eddie could be awesome for WM, we’d do this” and then Shawn would say that he loved it, or he hated it, or he’d just Superkick Stan again or something.

So yes, there’s some truth, but there’s also some falseness, they’d only just started to think about Eddie’s role at WM.

2. Why did Triple H vs Goldberg match never happen? was it ever explained why they went with the Elimination Chamber instead.

… It did happen, one month later at Unforgiven. Goldberg won the title and everything.

That said, this was announced for Summerslam, and everything was building up to this, Triple H had beaten Booker T at Wrestlemania specifically because this was going to happen, HHH V Goldy. So what happened here?

A combination of injury and severe misunderstanding of how Goldberg worked in terms of making money.

After they’d announced HHH V Goldberg, HHH suffered a groin injury, which wasn’t bad enough to completely remove him from the match, did require a lot of smoke and mirrors to hide, as well as those silly looking biker shorts he wore in that match.

So they added the Elimination Chamber gimmick to hide HHH’s injury. But then Goldberg winning the belt in that match seemed wrong for the story they were telling, so they held off a month and had the big win happen at Unforgiven. Because Goldberg, according to WWE logic at the time, was just another babyface, and thus the money was clearly in the chase, and by delaying the win, they’ll create an air of mystery over if Goldberg could win, and that would get people to buy the PPV.

In actuality, if HHH could walk, then he should have just done the match and done a What Hogan/Sting 97 Should’ve Been Job, in this case spear to Flair, spear to DAVE, spear to Randy, spear X3 to HHH, Jackhammer, pinfall, thank you, good night.

The money in Goldberg was in him kicking ass, not in a generic rising up underdog storyline. But then HHH might look bad, so we can’t do that, obviously.

Injury forced them to delay it because of the story they insisted on telling. That’s it really.

Michael L asks about music, and Kid Rock. Which, I understand, is related to but somewhat distinct from music.

*5/8ths of a Chandler*

I’ve been watching various network PPVs, and one issue about music licensing has baffled me. I realize that the early PPVs from the 80’s and early 90’s don’t have the many of the original entrance themes because the licensing would be too expensive. Yet from the 1990’s or so, even when they have outside music they still keep the original music (Alter Bridge’s song for Edge, Limp Bizkit’s “Rollin’ for UT’s biker phase to “Cult of Personality” for CM Punk.

However, there is one notable exception: Kid Rock. They’ve used his music often, from “American Badass” as his original biker theme, to “Cocky” as the Rumble 2002 theme, to a live performance at WM 25, culminating in the entrance to the diva’s battle royal. And yet that music has consistently been replaced, even to the point of eliminating his WM25 mini-concert to the point where the divas don’t even get an entrance. Why of all the artists they use is Kid Rock a rare exception to the use of outside music. Is his music that expensive?

The real tragedy to this is that Lonely Road Of Faith is butchered. That’s a real shame.

Anyway, I wasn’t able to find specific information about Kid Rock and the WWE Network, however I know Kid Rock was a holdout on itunes and the like for a long time, and he’s been vocal about making money in the business, which is his right, plus all those songs were from albums he put out with Atlantic Records, so maybe they have some sort of issue with WWE and/or with Kid Rock right now.

That said, to keep music on there that WWE doesn’t own outright, they need deals that specifically include the Network, or are vague enough that it’s covered. You need to license both the recording (the actual version used) and the publishing (the rights to the song overall). To get them, especially for a streaming service like the Network, that’s not cheap unless you own the publishing rights (which 95% of the music WWE uses they do) or you get a good deal. Edge met Mark Tremonti at a Metallica gig and ended up become friends and thus got a good deal on that song, you’d assume. Fred Durst has appeared in a WWE Video Game so presumably he’s either a fan or has odd choices in how to claim fees. Cult of Personality I assume got a big deal where rights were given for any use or some such.

So it’s not that Kid Rock is some weird outlier, it’s just WWE recently has done a good job of making sure they own the rights to most of the music they use, and thus his stuff missing stands out. Especially Lonely Road Of Faith…

Andrew asks about an arrow to the knee a ladder to the face.

After watching the DIY vs AOP match I’m really surprised that the WWE had Johnny take the unprotected ladder shot to the face late in the match. Since they don’t allow unprotected chair shots anymore, I don’t know how this one would be considered okay, do you know how in the world of concussion protocol they can get away with that one?

The WWE Concussion Protocol is fairly straightforward about this stuff. Quote:

Developmental: In addition to education, the WWE has modified their training program to emphasize techniques and timing of maneuvers to prevent unnecessary blows to the head.

The WWE has eliminated using folding metal chairs to “strike” an opponent in the head. The WWE penalizes through fine and/or suspension the following:

– The intentional use of a folding metal chair to “strike” an opponent in the head.
– Any blow to the head that is deemed an INTENTIONAL act

The fine and/or suspension will be directed by the EVP of Talent, Live Events and Creative.

So, a ladder to the face is not an automatic issue, unless it was intentional. Chair shots to the head are a bit stronger than a ladder, because chairs are easier to swing so you get more force behind it, I suppose. If WWE really had an issue with it, they could fine the guys, but Gargano could just say he didn’t get his hands up in time, my bad.

But no, as long as WWE didn’t think this was a deliberate attempt to hit Johnny Wrestling in the head, it’s ok.

Joseph asks me to rebook a couple PPVs, because that’s always such a popular thing for me to do…

*Some Value Of Chandlers Between ½ to 1.5*

Could you please rebook Starrcade 1994? You can start as early as Hogan’s entrance into the company.

Oh what, you don’t think The Butcher was totally a main event guy?

…

Well obviously not.

OK, so I can start back at Bash At The Beach then? Fair enough, but to do this, I’m assuming that I saved Hulk Hogan from a burning car when he was a toddler or something and thus I don’t have to deal with him wanting to change things, he’ll think I’m brilliant and go along with everything.

So, BATB, Clash 28, Fall Brawl, Halloween Havoc, Clash 29, Starrcade 94.

BATB goes down the same way, it’s Hogan, his debut, he’s already being portrayed as God, you gotta pay that off.

Clash 28 goes with the original plan, mystery man takes out Hogan’s knee, he heroically comes back, gets put in figure four for four minutes or so, mystery man clonks him in head with pipe to make him pass out and give the match/win to Flair. Hogan doesn’t get medical clearance until Fall Brawl, thus his contractual rematch runs out. Flair swears he doesn’t know who the Man is. Regal beats Larry Zybysko in 5 minutes for TV title, Austin beats Steamboat in 15 for US title, Regal snidely points out the speed difference in an interview.

Fall Brawl is main evented by Wargames, with big stakes. Hogan’s Heroes (Hogan, Sting, Guardian Angel, Dusty Rhodes, Dustin Rhodes) taking on Flair’s Forces (Flair, Austin, Vader, Terry Funk, Arn Anderson). Mystery Man is locked in a cage at ringside. Hogan’s team wins, Mystery Man has to unmask. Flair’s team wins, Hogan doesn’t get another shot as long as Flair’s the champ. Plus, as a last minute bonus stip, whoever gets the submission is #1 contender, Flair can pick his own challenger if he gets the win. Vader ends up getting the win, making Dusty give up to prevent Vader breaking Dustin’s back. Regal loses TV Title to Johnny B Badd, which Austin is sure to point out in the group promo before Wargames.

Halloween Havoc, Hogan beats Arn Anderson, Flair gets killed by Vader, Vader new champ, Hogan comes out to challenge Vader, Masked Man attacks Hogan… And Vader. Johnny B Badd loses TV Title to Dustin Rhodes, Steven Regal beats Guardian Angel, Austin beats Sting for US title via cheating, he and Regal get into a brawl in the back.

Clash 29, main event Hogan V Flair 3, #1 contendership on the line, Hogan wins clean. Vader kills Guardian Angel so badly he vanishes. Mystery Man again appears at the end of the show, but Hogan and Flair team up to send him packing, running away before he could be unmasked, Flair gives Hogan a handshake to turn face, and asks him to beat Vader for him. Regal and Austin are supposed to have a match but Austin attacks Regal during entrance and puts him through a table.

Starrcade, Regal wins US title off Austin. Sting beats Flair. Meng wins TV Title. Hogan beats Vader in a bloody brawl, winning the title… And here comes the Masked Man one last time, but this time Hogan, Flair, and Sting work together to beat him down and finally unmask him to reveal…

Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

Heel Duggan V Hogan goes from there.

There’d be some tag team stuff in there too, but those are the main points, I think.

Could you please rebook Wrestlemania XI?

Shawn beats the Big Guy with three superkicks. Done.

Honestly, that show doesn’t suck as much as it’s just there. The LT/Bam Bam match was its own thing, I’d put Shawn over, sure, but beyond that, it’s just tweaking. Owen/Yoko was awesome, Taker/Bundy had not too many better options…

But ok, how about this.

Allied Powers win the tag titles couple weeks prior, show opens with Allied Powers V Owen/???, do the Yoko reveal and tag win. Follow with 123 Kid V Sid, small V big, Kid is by himself and seems to resent it, gets killed. Taker/Bundy, same. Razor/Jarrett for IC title, Kid is there in Razor’s corner, then turns on him and costs him the belt to Jarrett. Bret/Bob same, although Backlund is told to say I Quit clearly. Shawn beats Diesel to win title, and then celebrates with LT after his win to make that the shot people remember for the show, HBK and LT as chums.

Maybe toss in a 8 man, Gunns/MOM V Blus/Now Evil Bushwhackers maybe, set up MOM V Owen/Yoko because Vince would love that. But the roster wasn’t too deep at the time…

What of you, dear readers? Got better ideas?

From fantasy booking to hard numbers to finish, thanks to Paul From Canada.

Thank you for the Massive Q (and A –– see what I did there?). I was musing about the champions’ nationality groups, and then someone else made a comment in another 411Mania article which got me wondering.

Question #1: Starting when VKM bought WWF from his father until the current day, I would think the USA has held the honour of having the most champions, with Canda probably being second. To qualify, this will count WCW’s big belt only after Vince bought the company. Also, I am only interested in the various world titles, which means no US/IC/tag/etc etc titles. As far as I know, the ECW championship belt is still a world title, just a lesser one.

Further, each man’s multiple reigns are only considered once, so Hogan, Austin, Rock, Hitman, Edge et al get listed one time each regardless of how many times they have actually won the belt.

He Who Shall Not Be Named from Canada does make the list because he did win the world title. Twice, if you count WCW, I think. Still only counts as one!

And if it helps, I am more interested in where the wrestler is being billed or hailed from, or is primarily associated. Yes, that means the Canadians who live outside of Canada are still counted as Canadian wins, and BRAAAWK LEZZZNARRR who I believe currently resides in Canada counts as a USA tick on the list.

Just a guess, but at the bottom end of things Britain has zero, Ireland and India both have two. The good news is that I only want countries listed if they have produced at least one world champion.

OK… So I’m going by what they’re associated with. So although Jericho was born in the USA, he’s Canadian. Yokozuna… Japan I guess. Feel free to change to Samoa if you want for him.

So WWE, WCW/World, Universal, and ECW titles…

USA (44): AJ Styles, Batista, Big Show, Bob Backlund, Bobby Lashley, Booker T, Bray Wyatt, Brock Lesnar, Chavo Guerrero, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, Diesel, Dolph Ziggler, Eddie Guerrero, Goldberg, Hulk Hogan, Jack Swagger, Jeff Hardy, John Bradshaw Layfield, John Cena, Johnny Nitro, Kane, Kurt Angle, Mankind, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Randy Orton, Randy Savage, Rey Mysterio, Ric Flair, Rob Van Dam, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Sgt. Slaughter, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Miz, The Rock, The Ultimate Warrior, The Undertaker, Tommy Dreamer, Triple H, Vince McMahon

Canada (6): Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Christian, Edge, Kevin Owens

India (2): Jinder Mahal, The Great Khali

Ireland (2): Finn Balor, Sheamus

France (1): André the Giant

Guyana (1): Ezekiel Jackson

Iran (1): The Iron Sheik

Japan (1): Yokozuna

Mexico (1): Alberto Del Rio

Wherever He Damn Well Pleases (1): Sycho Sid

So yeah, you were right.

Question #2: From the commentator who inspired the question…since Vince took over, has there ever been a world title bout where neither of the wrestlers were from the USA? We know that the secondary titles have been fought over by people from other countries with no American competitor, but again, talking world titles here.

…

I actually looked for a few minutes, found one too, Del Rio V Christian at Summerslam 2013 for the World Heavyweight Title. But there’s the obvious one, Bret Hart V British Bulldog the second time round, IYH5: Season’s Beatings.

So yes, it has happened.

And on that downer ending, I bid you all goodbye for now. See you next week!