wrestling / Columns

Ask 411 Wrestling: Is Vince McMahon Perverted?

October 22, 2014 | Posted by Mathew Sforcina

Hello, and welcome to the only column calling Mizdow pinning Sheamus at Hell in a Cell to win the belt right now, Ask 411 Wrestling!

I’m your question answer person, Mathew Sforcina, and if you just can’t get enough of hearing about me being a wrestler, I gave an interview thing here. So there’s that.

And if you have a question you’d like me to ignore as I focus on self promotion, [email protected] is where you send it.

Guess what comes next?

Zeldas!

Check out my Drabble blog, 1/10 of a Picture! I’ve got my entries to that competition, so… Still read it, please?

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Sami Zayn’s faith: Oh, is he Muslim? Ok then. The fact that I didn’t know that I think shows it’s not exactly common knowledge so unless WWE brings it up, he should be fine.

Undertaker managing Ambrose: I kinda envisioned it as more Kane keeps getting Taker Mind Games (TM) played on him in the lead up, then at WM at a crucial moment Taker appears and allows Ambrose to hit Dirty Deeds to retire Kane.

Jeff Jarrett and/or Steve Austin being dicks: Sometimes people do things for good reasons that are still bad things, and often our opinion about those actions depend on who the person they are doing them too was. If Jarrett had held up Bischoff most people would look favourably on it, and if Austin had nixed an angle with Daniel Bryan we’d bay for his blood. Just something to keep in mind.

My voice: There’s a few videos of my talking floating out there, I don’t sound Australian, my accent is a mixture of Australian, South African, American, and Speech Impediment.

The Trivia Crown

I had stints in 2 of the 3 major promotions, though most of my success came on the regional scene. I was a part of a legendary group …. BEFORE they became legendary. I was involved in something that is credited for being an inspiration for a now WWE staple, though very few people actually saw it. I’ve been brainwashed, I feuded with a warrior, I screwed with a legend, and I won tag team belts with a clown. My death was ruled accidental, but some feel differently about it. I am who?

Give us the answer, Andrewlius!

I had stints in 2 of the 3 major promotions, though most of my success came on the regional scene (WCW & WWF, Georgia Championship). I was a part of a legendary group …. BEFORE they became legendary(Legion of Doom). I was involved in something that is credited for being an inspiration for a now WWE staple, though very few people actually saw it(Last Battle of Atlanta, completely enclosed cage – inspiration for Hell in A Cell). I’ve been brainwashed (Mad Dog Vachon), I feuded with a warrior(Dingo Warrior), I screwed with a legend, and I won tag team belts with a clown(WCWA Tag Team Champion with Matt Borne). My death was ruled accidental, but some feel differently about it. I am who? You are BUZZ SAWYER.

Maravilloso is back with this week’s question.

I was trained by a Hall of Famer, who also trained other wrestlers who became Hall of Famers themselves. I’ve won tag titles alongside Hall of Famers and only one of them trained by the same guy who trained me, one of those victories against two other Hall of Famers, and many would argue I should be a Hall of Famer, too. I gave a future Hall of Famer a not so pleasant welcome to the world of wrestling and I was the first one being inducted to a lesser-known Hall of Fame. But enough of Halls of Fame!! I have a connection with a wrecking crew, Floyd Mayweather and Hulk Hogan. Who am I?

Getting Down To All The Business

Doyle starts us off with a simple naming question.

Do you think in the future we will ever see another wrestler named “the rock” given the popularity of Dwayne Johnson? There was Don Muraco and certainly someone before Don had the name as well.

Not in WWE we won’t, and we almost certainly won’t see it in wrestling until Mr. Johnson is retired or more likely dead.

A side effect of WWE’s new policy of owning all the names of their talent is that they get to have some control over them. In the old days, if you had a few guys named Chris/tian, you’d maybe be able to prevent more coming in by changing their name to William, but you were stuck with lots of Chrises.

But now, WWE can insure that everyone has a totally different name that doesn’t overlap. And as part of that, WWE would NEVER let anyone use Austin, Triple, Rock, Hogan, etcetc as part of their name, not without a damn good reason.

And if anyone outside of WWE were to try using The Rock as part of their name, unless they were born Christopher DaRock as his birth name and thus Mr. Johnson couldn’t sue, there’s no way anyone could get away with it. It would be a clear attempt, the argument would go, that you were trying to deceive and mislead the audience.

So no, I don’t see The Rock being used as a nickname for anyone else in wrestling, certainly not for a long, long time.

Will wishes to talk about Edge, Cena and Lita.

I remember a match on Raw during the Edge/Cena feud that ended with Lita hitting Edge with the title belt, thus causing a disqualification victory for Cena but Edge ended up with the title. Lita had an odd look on her face as the show ended. Was there ever a plan for her to turn face?

That would be the Raw of January 30, 2006, although Edge wasn’t champ, Cena was, this was the night after the 2006 Royal Rumble.

And it wasn’t so much a ‘Lita Turn Face’ moment as it was a ‘Let’s Stretch This Out More’ moment. Edge had just lost the title back to Cena the night before, and while they didn’t want to have this go to Wrestlemania, but they also didn’t want to be done and dusted in one week. So by having Lita give Edge a DQ win, they could build to a rematch a couple weeks later with a special ref, Mick Foley, who could then count the fall on Edge and thus give Edge a reason to be pissed at him and thus lead to the two of them trying to kill each other at Wrestlemania.

I’ll admit it was badly done, and the announcers getting it backwards didn’t help, but the point was to be different and lead to a WM story, and it sorta worked…

Craig would like my opinion on a couple things.

Do you think next years WM ppv will draw less buys without the streak being in it?

It’ll be impossible to judge, simply because it’ll draw less buys because the Network will suck up so many people. The variable of there being no Streak will be masked by the more powerful variables of WWE being cold and the Network firmly established as a cheaper alternative.

Now, should WWE decide to not show WM live on the Network which is a ‘Genie Not Going Back In Bottle’ moment if ever I heard one, but if they tried that, we might see if the lack of a Streak is a factor, but right now, impossible to say due to other factors.

Do you think we’ll ever get a rusev vs lesnar match?

Not without a major shift in reality.

If Russia starts World War Three…
If Runa (… Lasev?) suddenly gained more heat than ISIS Branded Ebola…
If a series of very specific meteor strikes occurred and moved 95% of the roster to the disabled list…
If 95% of the roster went in on a Powerball entry and all won millions of dollars…
If Brock Lesnar asked really really REALLY forcefully…
If Paul Heyman came up with a great way to make Triple H look really cool and smart…
If Vince McMahon went insane…insaner…
If Putin really does care about Rusev…

Or any other of a series of unlikely events were to occur, it might happen. But I doubt it.

Jorge wishes to go back to 1993. Join us, why don’t you?

First of, why didn’t Mr. Perfect appeared at the Survivor Series 1993? He had appeared on a lot of Raws befire that and was advertised until the event where Razor said Mr. Wasn’t there.

I saw a lot of different reasons given while looking this up, ranging from steroids to booze to just flat out no showing, but the most common suggestion is that he reaggravated his back injury before the show and thus couldn’t be there. And the thing is, if you look at the records, the last match Perfect has is October 29th, with Bob Backlund subbing for him in matches against Diesel. The Raws with him wrestling leading up to Survivor Series were taped in mid-October. So the back injury seems like it’s entirely plausible, more so than him being off the road and then turning up on the day unable to wrestle.

Also why did they made the Tatanka being injured angle, he was somewhat over with the fans?

So they could end the undefeated streak angle, while putting heat on the Foreigners, and allow The Undertaker to turn face via coat lining.

Sometimes when you book a wrestling company, you have to do things that seem counter-intuitive, sometimes you gotta curb one guy’s heat in order to help a bunch of other people’s. It’s not that you hate that one guy, or that he did anything wrong, but maybe one guy loses a little heat but 8 other guys gain a bunch of heat? Fair trade to me…

Second, why was Shawn Michaels stripped of the IC bealt on 1993? Was he really fired from WWF?

He was stripped because he wasn’t going to turn up to shows and wrestle. Why that happened…

The story right now is that Shawn tested positive for steroids, and he denied this (or at least, denied doing it deliberately, he was so high at the time he might well have popped one, so he says). Vince was still going to suspend him over it, but he then did the ‘You can’t suspend me, I quit’ gambit. He went home and took some time off, while WWF proceeded to strip him of the belt and ‘suspend’ him, since they clearly hoped/assumed he’d be back.

It’s not a neat explanation, but Shawn and the WWF always had a weird relationship, he got away with a lot of stuff that maybe he shouldn’t have, depending on your viewpoint.

Why did Rick and Scott Steiner leave the WWF? They were very over with the fans.

Because they were dissatisfied with their pay, had issues with not being allowed to work Japan when they wanted, and were heading towards a split which neither man wanted to do at that time.

Hey, sometimes guys just want out. Why keep them around if they do?

Last but not least, who were the knights in the Survivor Series 1993 match with HBK against the Harts?

The Red Knight was Barry Horowitz.
The Blue Knight was Greg Valentine.
The Black Knight was Jeff Gaylord, a USWA wrestler.

Ben has a simple question that will lead to discussion and debate and arguments. Oh, the arguments…

I am a product of the territories, Memphis wrestling being what I “cut my teeth on” before the advent of “Georgia Championship Wrestling” on TBS. That being said what I have wondered is…

Could today’s independent wrestling scene be considered the new “territories”?

To a certain extent. Certainly in terms of basic logistics, independent wrestling companies tend to run in small to medium sized circuits, in terms of companies being territories, there is similarity. But not much, and then you get into the differences.

Arguably the biggest issue is one of scale. While not every company was the same size in the territories, they tended to at least be fairly equal in terms of what they did. Each company had small shows leading to big ones, and most of them would have a TV show in one or two markets. So, as you went from company to company, moving slowly up the ranks with each jump, while the in ring product might be different, there was at least a gradual scale in terms of what you were doing. By the time you got to WWF or Crockett, you were conceivably used to the idea of wrestling small shows and big shows and working for TV. Compared to today’s scene, where almost no-one has TV, but every show might well be on DVD at some point, and maybe if you’re lucky iPPV… Until you hit the big time, where it’s a sudden step up to WWE.

But that’s the biggest issue from my point of view as someone inside the system. From those outside it, the problem is that the territory system worked by the shifting from place to place and exposing workers to different styles, different crowds, and with constant resetting of character and persona so that by the time they got to the main event they had a persona that worked and could work any style they needed to. And now, WWE instead will by all means hire you if you prove yourself on the indies, but only if you’re willing to go back to school and relearn everything, and do it right this time.

And that’s the crux of it, the territory system is dead because WWE changed the game, killing all the old territories and then making it so that the system couldn’t ever happen again unless they decide to make it happen. Instead of guys travelling and learning and honing their craft, guys either stick to one company or travel all the time, and either way, WWE’s gonna reteach them anyway if they show promise.

There are positives and negatives to this, depending on where you sit. But the fact is, the way the territories used to work, that’s dead. The way territories used to work together, that’s somewhat alive. And the independent wrestling scene is the closest thing to a territory system we have, but it’s not one. But if you want to call it the New one, that’s fair enough, I suppose. I’m not going to stop you.

I’m slightly depressed now. Let’s lighten the mood, shall we? Charlene?

Is there any evidence of Vince McMahon being such a freak, pervert, etc. before the Attitude Era? What I mean is, if you look at his image on television and in the media pre-1997, he certainly seems like a straight laced nerdy guy, albeit on steroids and an obsession with large men. However, listening to his commentary and even looking at the product he was producing with all the goofy characters and the like, how could anybody assume that post 98 the man would be in charge of having an old white woman have a sexual relationship with “Sexual Chocolate” that results in a birth of a hand, making females on his roster bark for him and dry hump him in front of his wife, having his son-in-law simulate sex with a mannequin in a real funeral home, and continuously pushing for his pregnant daughter to allow for an incest angle with either him or his son as the father? My question is, is there evidence that Vince has always been this crazy and just was finally able to let it be public after age 50? Or did he just start to push the boundaries in 97 and then completely lose control and unleash the inner psycho? I know he admitted cheating on his wife before but it seemed up until his mid-50s his public persona was that of a pretty straight laced guy, a guy that was even worried about things DX was doing on television.

I think we need to be clear about the difference between Vince McMahon the guy and what Vince McMahon thinks is entertaining and/or humorous.

There has never been any accusations of Vince doing anything overtly perverted in his private like beyond having affairs with many women (which he has admitted to) and possibly men (which has always come from sources with axes and never with hard proof). That, and the accusations of drug use, cocaine and steroids the popular ones to say he uses. These accusations are mostly unsubstantiated, and I could find no evidence or even accusations of Vince liking to put on a nappy and wrestle with a trannie called Kinky Renee or anything like that.

But…

Vince clearly has a very broad sense of humor, or at least is of the opinion that you and I have a broad sense of humor. Although Russo is the guy who came up a lot of the Attitude’s coarser moments, the buck stops with Vince, and when he’s not presenting a family friendly or child focused product, if he’s allowed to go adult, he clearly thinks the broader the better in terms of pushing the envelope.

And he does have something resembling a point, as we all remember Mae Young’s hand, we all remember Katie Vick, we all remember Trish barking like a dog. And they served some purpose, in that they were a way to write out a pregnancy angle that was going nowhere, or were part of the overall Vince going crazy angle that Trish got her revenge for, or in the case of Katie Vick…

Uh…

Without sponsors breathing down his neck or classification ratings, Vince can have a base, crude level of what’s unusual and thus interesting to watch, or at least he has a very low opinion about what we want to see. But that doesn’t seem to translate to his personal life, at least not on a scale where anyone is willing to be blackballed to let us know.

Although I don’t know where he thinks we’re all crude idiots. I mean, look at the internet, there’s hardly a pervert or idiot to be seen!

Self Promotion!

Nightwolf wishes to improve the product.

Here’s my idea to make WWE better. Randy Orton get laid out at Summerslam by masked wrestler. The next night on Raw Triple H demands answers. A hooded figure appears and says the truth will be revealed soon. This goes on for months with various masked wrestlers laying out Randy Orton, Batista, Seth Rollins, John Cena, etc. Finally at the Royal Rumble one of the many masked wrestlers wins the Royal Rumble. Triple H comes out and demands to know who he is. The Rumble ends with the masked guy revealed to be CM Punk and Triple H steaming mad. The next night on Raw Triple H comes out and demands to know who the hell CM Punk thinks he is coming back to the WWE after walking out a year ago. CM Punk comes out to a roaring applause with the hooded figure. The Hooded figure reveals himself to be Shane McMahon. He tells Triple H that he’s been the one behind these attacks for months. He says that he’s watched his sister Stephanie and Triple H destroy the legacy the his father created and he’s not going to watch any more. He challenges Triple H to a match at Wrestlemania 31. With the winner getting control of the WWE. CM Punk says hell fight in Shane McMahon’s place and tells Hunter that he’s been waiting a long time to kick his ass. Wrestlemania 31 rolls around and CM Punk destroys Triple H and thus cementing Shane McMahon’s right as Chairman/CEO of WWE

There’s not really a question here. Well ok, there’s a bunch, but you haven’t really asked me one. However, I do want to say this, about Shane McMahon coming back. (Punk will be back when Punk decides he’d like more money and not a day before.)

I’m not going to say that Shane coming back is not going to happen, it could. And I’m not going to say it’ll automatically be awesome or automatically suck, it depends wildly on whatever is going on at the time. However, I think there’s one key point that needs to be said.

For Shane McMahon to have a truly positive effect on the product, he can’t be solely an on air talent. Sure, use him as on air talent if you like, fine, but as much as I like seeing Shane on my TV, the best place for Shane is behind the camera.

Shane was the guy who convinced Vince to take a risk on Russo and Attitude, and while we can argue about the long term impact of those two things, the fact is that Attitude was wildly successful and made WWF a lot of money and helped win the war. And then Shane was the guy who saw the rise of MMA before it was anything beyond a sideshow, and he’s the guy who went to China first, and he’s the guy who wanted to rebuild the territories under the WWE umbrella, supposedly.

Shane appears to be a guy who can see trends, who can not only focus on there here and now but also what should come next. That’s why I want him back. I don’t care if I never see him jump off something, or throw a horrible punch, or have a reason to pimp this remix, I want Shane back and in the WWE in a position where he can shape the company and help build it up more.

Now, he might suck, or he might have lost his touch, or any number of things. But at the end of the day, while I’d like him back on TV, given the choice, I want Shane working in Titan Towers more than live on Raw. But that’s just me.

Andron is yet another victim of the dreaded Sforcina Is A Lazy Bastard Ask 411 Question Backlog!

First one is two part.. Firstly do you think some wrestlers is just better off as face/heels? Then, depending on the answer to that one, my other question is do you think that Jack Swagger would be able to make it as a face? I see Rusev there in my mind he should fued with Swagger who is said to be the real american. But to do that, someone would have to turn face, if any opportunity to try Jack Swagger as a face Rusev may be the perfect face push… Swagger however i can’t recall ever being a face but can you vision him as a face?

Some guys are better suited to being face or heel, sure. Playing a role in any creative or sports situation requires a skill set, requires certain abilities. The ability to give a tragic Shakespearian soliloquy is not the same one as being able to nail a really good fart joke. The skills needed to be a quarterback are different to those of a table tennis player.

So it follows that some people are better at being a heel or a face, that their talents and abilities are perfect/better for one side of the coin and nowhere near that for the other. It’s just common sense, not everyone can main event, not every can do comic relief, not everyone can be a face or a heel, from a talent perspective.

But from a storytelling perspective, from a perfect world where the stories I tell are always done perfectly? Any character can be a face, any performer can be a heel. It all comes down to how you present them, and what you do with them. Like Swagger right now, which obviously is the part that is out of date now. Swagger is face now. Not a good one, mind you, but he is one.

Second question, whatever happened to the Ryback planned push? I remember they seperate him from Paul Heyman and Axel because they wanted to push him and put him against Brock Lesnar, a story line they seem to be working with, with Cesaro right now. But what did ever happen to his push?

WWE depushed him because of his attitude and backstage issues, according to the rumors. He had a ton of heat on him, so the dirt sheets said, due to a bad attitude and due to not improving in the ring as much as they’d like and being grumpy at media appearances and a whole lot of reasons that may or may not have any basis in reality.

I think this is part of the issue with doing this column so long, after a certain point it seems like I know everything, or at least I can explain everything.

Professional wrestling is, at times, the worst of both worlds in terms of sports and entertainment. You can get benched because you’re not performing well, or you can get benched because someone else is catty about you. You can be derailed by a badly timed injury, or your career can be ruined by a badly timed joke. Sometimes plans change and people get ‘buried’ for seemingly no reason, and even if you were in the room, you still wouldn’t know.

Now to be fair and to not get super depressed, this is not that common, hard work and talent will normally rise up regardless of whatever stuff ups may or may not occur on the way. And the good points outweigh the bad, I’m not trying to say wrestling is horrible, just that, at times, it’s unfair and you don’t or can’t know why.

That will be the end of Grumpy Mathew for now, I hope.

But anyway, Ryback, yeah, supposedly he was working sloppy, and had a bad attitude, and now he’s recovering from surgery so hey, maybe he’ll get a push when he returns?

Erik takes us to a what if.

In the opening seconds of the WM3 bout between Andre and Hogan, when Hogan tried to slam Andre and failed, did Hogan take more of Andre’s weight than he wanted to on that bump? It almost looked like Joey Marella counted longer than he wanted to…….hence the bit of “confusion” between him and the timekeeper as to whether it was a two-count or a three-count. What would have happened if Andre accidentally knocked Hogan out on that slam attempt? Obviously, Marella would’ve been forced to count to three. What impact would that ridiculously fast finish have had on (arguably) the greatest wrestling event in history?

Well WWF is fucked, for starters.

Actually, hold on, that would probably not have happened like that. Sure, if both of them had somehow been knocked out on that move, Marella would have counted, but if Hogan was KOed, Marella would have counted slow, and Andre would have pulled Hogan up or pretended he kicked out, the two of them, you’d hope, would have not let the biggest match in professional wrestling ever end that quickly.

But ok, Hogan is in a one hour coma and won’t be kicking out. Marella counts to three. Now what? Despite the half-Chandler above, I think it’s not an automatic death knell for the WWF, and in fact could maybe be a positive in a very specific light.

See, Wrestlemania 3 was the show that made the WWF unstoppable and made PPV the new reality. And while Hogan winning the day was a big part of that, the tickets and PPVs were already sold by that point. So Andre winning, solidly and that quickly, while not what you’d book, would be a hell of a thing to go from. Hulkamania is severely damaged, because now Hogan is clearly just a man. But you tend spend a year, one solid year, building up Hogan on a path to redemption, you have him train and work hard and say his vitamins and say his prayers and at Wrestlemania IV he slams the Giant… You lose the immortality, but gain a fanbase, perhaps, that views hard work as important, and sees these men as larger than life but in the end still men. By downgrading them slightly, by training the audience to accepting losses by a hero as not being the end of existence, you can tell a lot more stories. If Hogan can lose then come back, then seeing Bret Hart not win the title is no longer bullshit, Cena no longer has to be Superman…

But that’s very long term. Wrestlemania 3, specifically? It’d be remembered a lot differently, as that would be the Worst. Ending. Ever. And while long term that could be seen as a positive, short term and in regards to the show itself? Wrestlemania 3 is no longer the Biggest WM ever. Now, it’s that horrible show where America lost it’s innocence or other such nonsense.

But by all means, dear readers, what’s your take on it?

James has an observation.

I never understood why Vince McMahon doesn’t get the credit he deserves as being a great commentator. Him, Monsoon and Heenan on commentary was classic.

There’s any number of reasons, most of which are ‘He’s not Monsoon’ or ‘He’s not JR’. But I think looking back now, a major part of the issue is that his work as Mr. McMahon is so spectacular and important that what he did that was just ok to good looks horrible in comparison.

I mean, I’m sure someone below will say he sucks, but he can call a match perfectly acceptably. Does he have his own idiosyncrasies? Sure, but so does every announcer, and his aren’t as bad as Heel Cole’s were, for instance.

But to be memorable and beloved, straight PBP guys need a hook, unless the hook is ‘Hookless’, which is WCW era Tenay. Vince didn’t really have one, unless you look in retrospect where he owns the company. But perhaps someone below has a better idea.

Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo has a rules question and a booking one.

If you have a 2 out of 3 falls match, and one team gets counted out or a DQ, they obviously lose a fall. what if the champions lose one or both falls based on a DQ or count-out? Does this mean there’s a title change, given that titles can’t change hands on a count out or DQ?

Depends on the company and the time. The default position is that the deciding fall has to be a pinfall or submission, if the first fall is a DQ that’s ok, as long as you get a pin or submission on the second one. NWA tended to be “No DQs at all”, while WWE changes depending on what they feel like.

It comes down to if you feel that the 2 out of 3 falls part is a gimmick or not. If it’s a gimmick victory condition then it doesn’t matter what the falls are, only that they exist. If it’s a match with just a tweak to the rules, then the DQ rule should still be in effect.

Like most rules in wrestling, there isn’t a hard and fast rule, it depends on the company and the booking.

Wouldn’t Bray Wyatt be positioned much stronger if he weren’t always accompanied to ring by his family? The ‘E never makes it seem like he can win a match one-on-one.

True, but then he wouldn’t be a cult leader without his cult, would he?

Yes, ok, he’s cultless now, but the point seems to be that WWE preferred him to lead a group rather than be a threat by himself, most of the time. Of course that means he’s not seen as a credible threat, but you see… Uh…

Bye!

*runs away*