Ask 411 Wrestling: What Match Should End Wrestlemania 31?

Hello, welcome to Ask 411 Wrestling, and I’m officially in a video game now!

“Super Wrestling Heroes: Digital Attack” is downloadable for Android and Apple products, and features me, Massive Q, so go download it.

If you like. I mean, I think that’s cool, and it’s free and all so why not?

Anyway, that’s my self-promotion done with efficiently, and so now onto what you actually came here to read, me dodging questions!

Got a question you want me to dodge? [email protected] is where you send them. I know it’s WM season, I’m getting a lot more questions than usual, yay and so forth.

YAY FOR BANNER!

Zeldas!

Check out my Drabble blog, 1/10 of a Picture! When you do, an angel gets the hiccups.

Me On Twitter~!
http://www.twitter.com/411mania
http://www.twitter.com/411wrestling
http://www.twitter.com/411moviestv
http://www.twitter.com/411music
http://www.twitter.com/411games
http://www.twitter.com/411mma

Feedback Loop

Not All My Questions: I will, on occasion, break emails up across multiple weeks for time, ability to answer, and/or my own sanity. Sorry.

Raw/Nitro/Impact: Thanks to all those who pointed out ones I missed, people who didn’t have matches on Impact were hard to confirm at times. Cheers!

We Want Ryan!: I’d like to point out that Ryan, to my knowledge, is still unable to commit to doing this every week. So losing me means you will almost certainly see someone brand new.

And you all seemed to love that last time…

The Trivia Crown

Who am I? I was involved in a fictional tournament (albeit as an April Fools joke). I was the first guy to fight a very famous wrestler in a very famous place. I’ve been a king, and a rat. I’ve beaten gods and demons. I managed an infamous future world champion, but only in the dark, while in the light I have over a half dozen of world champs under my managerial services (technically). I once underwent multiplication, I once booked Orton V Cena V HHH, and my last televised match was a victory, albeit under dubious circumstances. Who am I?

The Ghost of Faffner Hall (with some help from DarthDaver and Michael) has the answer.

Who am I? I was involved in a fictional tournament (albeit as an April Fools joke)–the Intercontinental title tournament in 1979.
I was the first guy to fight a very famous wrestler in a very famous place.–Hulk Hogan’s first opponent in MSG.
I’ve been a king–1988 King of the Ring winner
and a rat–member of the Rat Pack in Mid-South
I’ve beaten gods–Hercules in the WWF
and demons–Holy Demon Army in All-Japan.
I managed an infamous future world champion, but only in the dark–Chris Benoit, in a non-televised WWF tryout match in 1995
while in the light I have over a half dozen of world champs under my managerial services (technically)– Austin, Sid, and Brian Lee in the WWF, Scott Steiner in WCW, Hogan, Giant and Nash as financial backer and spokesman for the nWo
I once underwent multiplication—Million Dollar Man > Trillionare Ted
I once booked Orton V Cena V HHH–as Raw guest host
and my last televised match was a victory, albeit under dubious circumstances—Raw 15th Anniversary Battle Royale
Who am I? “The Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase!

Who am I? I’m an alumni of ROH. I once proved my tag partner’s favored saying was wrong (although the Headbangers helped). I’ve worked security for a guy who’s killed people. I’ve been in a gang, a business and a ‘movement’. You could probably switch my two finishers’ names and still have them work. My managers have been male to female in the ratio 2:1. I used to have a geometric name. I was once replaced in a match by a WWE Hall of Famer. But I’m arguably best known for being the first guy to hold a specific portmanteau. Who am I?

Getting Down To All The Business

As usual, Ron Gamble gets preferential treatment.

Hello, Australian Larry! Long time, several time, blah blah.

There is something that has always bothered me about tag team matches. Let’s say we have Ken Anderson and Chris Melendez v. James Storm and Abyss. Abyss has Melendez in lots of pain and suffering, but Melendez manages to crawl over to his corner. Just as he goes to make the tag, Storm enters the ring to distract the referee. The ref goes over to stop Storm from interfering, and Anderson enters the ring all legal-like.

But, wait! The referee stops Anderson from getting involved, because he didn’t see the tag, and arguments ensue. Meanwhile, Storm enters the ring and takes over for Abyss. The referee turns around, sees Storm in the ring, looks shocked (because he didn’t see any tag), and asks Storm if he tagged in. Storm says yes, and the match continues.

Why? I know the simple answer has something to do with storytelling or “suspension of disbelief,” but why not believe Anderson when he says he tagged, or tell Storm to get out of the ring because he didn’t see any tag?

This has bothered me for a long time. Help me, Obi-Mat, you’re my only hope!

I’m not the dryad you’re booking for. Or whatever.

Anyway, there’s the answer I often give to newbie refs, in that as a ref, you instrinctly know that heels are trustworthy, upstanding people whose word you can take as fact most of the time, while faces are all cheating bastards who will lie, cheat and steal and thus must not be believed if they say the sky is blue. And heck, in current WWE booking, that’s pretty much accurate!

Getting them out of the way early this week.

Anyway, that only works as a way to help people tell the story, it isn’t a good reason for kayfabe. I don’t know of an ‘official’, generally accepted reason, but my justification is pretty simple, and it’s based on refs working from the last known situation.

See, the thing is, in your example for instance, the last time the ref has seen Melendez, he was struggling, and not near his partner. So when he turns back around, and sees Anderson coming into the ring, of course he’s going to assume that he’s come in illegally. His partner was in trouble and wasn’t near his corner, so naturally he wants to come in and save him. Noble, but against the rules.

And the reverse is also true, as while the ref is dealing with Anderson, he remembers that, last he saw, Storm and Abyss were both mobile and upright, so them having a tag is much more plausible. Unlike Melendez, Abyss was mostly ok, so him walking over for the tag seems sensible.

That’s how I justify it. Like most wrestling logic, it’s about building drama as opposed to being well thought out and logical, but you can get there somehow, if you try hard enough.

Brian has a couple questions.

. I was reading the top 5 worst turns article, and realized that maybe due to the break i took from wrestling Fandom (1992 to 2000), I never have seen a Brian Pillman match or watched any promos. I only have a concept of him from what I’ve read on this site.

I just had a minor surgery, and have to lay low for a few days. What would you suggest i watch as a mini primer on the guy? I do have WWE network access add well as the Internet. I don’t need you to find find links for me, just a quick response about his best few opponents or moments or promos.

There’s basically four main periods of Brian’s career in the big leagues.

Firey White Babyface: Search for him vs Jushin Thunder Liger, as well as him vs Scotty Flamingo. Maybe Wargames 91 if you want to see his neck get broken. Mostly just great matches, no really spectacular promos.

Hollywood Blondes: As much as you can find here, matches, promos, all of this you can get. V Steamboat/Douglas, as well as them V Flair/Anderson were both excellent.

Loose Cannon: Clash of the Champions 32, Reuniting the Horsemen, ECW Cyberslam 96. That’s pretty much the key moments.

WWF: Pillman’s Got A Gun is one of the most controversial moments in WWF history, so you should probably see that, and the 10 men tag at Canadian Stampede is one of the best matches in history.

That should be enough to get you started.

You said only two Mania’s ended on a downer. But Mix did defeat Cena, and then Rock beat him up. So that’s not a downer ending, but it is the heel winning. So perhaps that can happen again (be it this year or the future), allowing heel main event champ to leave victorious.

OR . . .

why can’t Sting-HHH be the final match? Or Taker-Bray, if that promo on Monday was pointing in that direction?

I did forget that WM last week, but in my defence, I’m sure most everyone else who’s seen it would like to delete it too.

Now, the question of ending WM on a downer is a little less clear cut now, as the four people involved in possibly ending it (Bryan, Reigns, Brock, Rollins) all have possible negatives involved, depending on how things play out, who turns, if the Rollins photo thing blows up more etc. And at this point, I’m not even sure WWE knows the reaction they’ll be getting, especially if they go ahead with the three way, which I don’t like (although my solution is now out as Rollins isn’t cashing in before Wrestlemania now, probably).

So yes, at this point? I’m thinking Sting/HHH ends it, ala WM25. Taker/Bray is not at all worthy of the main, but Sting/HHH, especially if they add a Super Special “This Time The Authorty Is Dead If Face Wins, Truly, We Mean It!” stip.

A Different Brian had a sorta vaguely similar question.

Total opinion here: what is the most shocking ending to a match ever?

The Montreal Screwjob.

…

Seriously, that’s the most shocking ending to a match ever. I mean, sure, some results were less predictable, some booking choices insane, and some finishes were out of the blue, but the Screwjob still holds the top spot for the perfect combination of unexpectedness, coupled with the result, and all the backstage stuff around it.

I can see the argument that it’s cheating to include that, but I gotta stick to my guns on this one. If you want a non-shoot ending… Hogan Turns Heel. Mostly for the ‘Holy Shit, They’re Doing It’ factor.

Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo has questions about PPV and podcasts and… Sigh, The Rumble.

1) Did WCW run Saturday Night PPVs following their Saturday late-afternoon TBS program? I distinctly remember watching one with a “triangle” match (read: 3 wrestlers) from the mid-90s but can’t find information about it online

They did indeed do this on occasion, run PPVs on Saturday, as the first two Souled Outs were on a Saturday. I assumed the one you remembered was the 1996 Hog Wild, as WCW Saturday Night served as the lead in show for the PPV in one of the three live editions the show had in its history. But neither of those shows had a triangle match on it.

But, presumably, if there was a PPV that night, the show would act as a sort of feeder program, wouldn’t it? I’ll look up the Souled Out nights.

1997, no triangle match.

1998, no triangle match.

I looked through WCW records on historyofwwe.com, couldn’t find any Triangle match on Saturday Night until 1999, and that was the week after Souled Out. I’m not sure I can help you dude, unless you watched one of the shows that was showing highlights from the Sting/Vader/Guardian Angel or Sting/Flair/Luger Triangle Matches…

Readers?

2) What did you think of the HHH podcast? Also, do you feel it is odd to see Hunter so chummy around HBK, Nash, and Austin (ostensibly for nostalgia’s sake) and then also have to be the Machiavellian villain he is?

I think the podcast was fine for what it was, in that he clearly saw the reaction that Vince’s appearance got and managed to avoid sending everyone into an uproar over it. It was good to get Hunter’s viewpoint, absolutely, but even with it being a ‘shoot’, it was still on the WWE Network, and so there is salt to be taken with it, like anything. But certainly it’s something I’d like to see more of.

And the chummy thing, the basic idea of ‘all old wrestlers have gotten over everything’ does have some logic involved, in that when you get old you supposedly gain perspective, and thus the blood feuds of the past are now just disagreements and such, I get that. I don’t like it sometimes, but I get it.

But HBK/Nash etc, those guys have firmly established as having friendships that transcend wrestling. The Curtain Call and all that, it’s canon that Hunter and his buddies might not always get along but at the end of the day they’re always friends, and even if HHH is currently an evil mastermind, he’s still Hunter, the guy who carried the bags their good buddy and pal.

3) On the podcast, Hunter seemed to give credit/lay blame with Vince, with Vince being the sole shot-caller. Yet now it’s been reported that this year’s Rumble, poorly booked in my opinion, was planned out by Jamie Noble. I can understand Vince’s stubborn support of Roman Reigns (or even his deafness to fans’ pleas not to have Reigns win), but wouldn’t his micromanaging be better served at match-planning one of the company’s marquee events rather than simply deciding who comes out on top?

Not really, as I’m not entirely sure Vince booking the Rumble would have been better. He’d probably have had Reigns toss 19 guys this year and last all the way from #1 through and banged Lana at the end and…

OK, that might have been better, long term.

The thing about the Rumble is that all the good Rumbles (and, to be fair, some of the bad ones) were booked by Pat Patterson. He was the guy who would intricately plot out storylines during the match, he’s the one who made all the really good Rumbles work out. I know he’s retired from active work in the company but dammit, bring him back for the Rumbles at least.

The issues with this year’s Rumble were basically down to “Spot, OK, Next!”. Bubba Ray returns, does his spots, leaves. Mizdow has his moment, does his stuff, leaves. Kofi comes out, Rose comes out, Kofi does his spot with the Rosebuds, Rose goes, Kofi goes. Everything happened right away and then the person involved left immediately afterwards.

The Rumble has the one main storyline to tell, sure. But it can, and has to, tell smaller ones as well, not just for week to week progression, but in the Rumble as well. Miz going immediately, Mizdow lasts ten times as long. Kofi gets a couple save spots, the Rosebuds is his last ditch effort, and then he runs out of tricks. You can tell a story over more than 90 seconds, people DO pay attention…

Speaking of paying attention to the words coming out of my mouth keyboard, Ultimate Keyboard Warrior asks about translation issues.

When a person from and English speaking country fights someone that doesn’t speak English, how does that work?

Examples are Chris Jericho vs Hanzo Nakajima, Randy Savage vs Jushin Thunder Liger, or the Jumping Bomb Angles vs The Glamour Girls.

Great matches, but how did they understand each other to coordinate spots?
Did Savage or Jericho speak Japanese?

No, everyone involved speaks wrestling.

Regardless of what language you speak, at the end of the day, wrestling has its own language, the world of reversals and marshmallows and giving the back for the dosido spot. At one extreme is Carny, which some wrestlers can speak fluently but most wrestlers can just manage to hang on, if they focus. At the other end is when you’re working guys who weren’t trained right and don’t know the terminology, that can be difficult.

But at the end of the day, while it might take a little longer, even with a total language gap, most wrestling terms are universal, and if you get desperate, you can always work via miming out the actions. Heck, one guy I’ve worked with was deaf, you had to work everything out via notes/mime, that was interesting.

Botchamania!

Best Of!

… This Exists.

Sean wants a reason to watch.

Why should I bother watching Wrestlemania if I know 5 months out (as I do) that Reigns is going over Lesnar for the title? There is no mystery here, only Vince’s will that Reigns will be champion regardless of whatever happens, such as hell freezing over. But if I already know that he is going to win, regardless of whether I like him or not, why watch? This is the most telegraphed move in wrestling history, and given that wrestling is as much about the surprise as it is the result, then knowing this far out that Reigns is going to win seems like it will kill buy rates (I know that is the wrong term since the network but whatever) rather than boost them. Everyone has known the Reigns plan for a year. So regardless of all the other hate on Reigns, it seems illogical to stick with it just on that basis. Vince is essentially (and I know he has done this before but not as blatantly) admitting that the whole thing is a work. I know kayfabe is dead but there has to be some semblance of athletic competitive legitimacy surely? What do you reckon?

Well if it bothers you, don’t watch. Certainly watching or not watching, hell, consuming any and all media should be your choice based solely on what you want to consume. Judging anyone, be it someone else or yourself, on a moral basis based on who you give attention or money to, is kinda silly.

*plugs App, Blog and Wrestling again*

However, I would argue that there’s been more telegraphed results in wrestling history. Flair regaining the title from Garvin, Hogan over Slaughter, Dreamer over Raven (eventually). Blatant booking decisions are not a modern phenomenon. The problem is that the journey has sucked.

The past year should have been building Roman as the Modern Sun King, having him look, well, Strong. But not in the wishy-washy way WWE did like they do with everyone, he had to be going out there and beating anyone and everyone in 30 seconds who wasn’t a multi-time former World Champ.

They should take 60 seconds.

*1/100 Chandler*

Now the hernia didn’t help, sure, but while the match up was predetermined, it should have been built to much better, rather than just the ‘Welp, Roman wins the Rumble now because he has to’ way it did. This should be the two unstoppable forces, the Aloof Beast Champion vs. the Defender Of The Faith. The two men should be going into this, where we can’t imagine either man losing.

Reigns jobbed to Big Show on Raw couple weeks ago.

But none of this is on Reigns, at least for the most part from most people. The booking hasn’t given the inevitable the importance it needed. So now we’re heading for a three way again, which will derail Reigns, kill Bryan or make Brock even more unbeatable. None of them is a good outcome.

But HHH/Sting should be overbooked to hell in a good way. And maybe the Rhodes and the Mizs will get a chance of having a WM moment to remember. So this WM might still be watchable.

But I wouldn’t blame you if you saved your money and time.

Ben asks about The Little Guy.

Dolph Ziggler….. “Selling machine” or “chronic over seller” (ala Shawn Michaels “sell-fit” to Hogan)?

Depends on if you take it by itself or in context.

Taken by itself, if you showed me someone selling like that, I’d be impressed, compliment him, and then tell him to calm the fuck down. The true art of wrestling is learning how to get the most reaction out of the least work. And taken by itself, I do think it’s grossly overselling.

With that said, though…
The selling, when it isn’t taken out of context, works. Ziggler overdoes everything, his entire persona is based on showing off, on being the center of attention, of being that guy who was always showing off this cool thing he swears he can do after a few beers.

Minus the few beers, obviously.

But when you take the fact that Ziggler the character tosses himself at everything with 110%, the fact that he cartwheels and crashes and burns so badly afterwards makes more sense. Equal and opposite reactions and all that. So taken as part of the whole machine, his selling works. I just wouldn’t transpose that part into anyone else’s engine by preference.

Nightwolf asks about contracts and the transition.

What is the process of WWE offering contracts to stars that come from other promotions like ROH and such? Like how do they know which wrestlers they want, offering contracts,etc

The procedure is miles different than in the old days, or heck even different than just a few years ago.

Today, pretty much anyone on the American Indy scene who has anything resembling a name, unless they refuse or have an obvious stumbling block to being hired or something, will get a tryout at an NXT camp. WWE will now take a look at anyone and everyone who seems to be doing well at this wrestling thing, unless they’re far too old or something. So they’re in a much better position to know exactly who they want to hire now, who they’re keeping on their radar, who they won’t take unless they get a major overhaul, and who is flat out NO.

Heck, when they came down here last year, they had like 40 people at the tryout camp, they took a look at almost everyone who had a look really.

Thus, in the modern era, it’s a matter of picking up the phone, checking they’re still interested, asking if they can pass a physical and drug test, then sending them a contract. It’s much more streamlined than the old method of relying on if you know someone inside who had sway or if a tape got to the right hands or just luck overall.

Tiny Momma Inflate asks about glasses.

1. So in the IWA opening you posted in your column, Thunderbolt Patterson appears in a promo segment wearing eyeglasses. Did he usually wear these? Did he wear these to the ring? If he didn’t, wouldn’t that look odd in some respect?

He did indeed wear them in promos and when he was out of the ring.

But in the ring, he would forgo them.

So was that odd looking? Well obviously it worked out for him, but I don’t think it’s that big a stretch to think that he was short sighted, so in the ring he was fine but otherwise he would wear glasses, given that he’d avoid injury. Speaking of…

2. Have any other notable wrestlers worn eyeglasses while competing? How about goggles?

All the Dudley Boys.

… We never got a Dudley Girl, did we? Well, other than Stacy I guess… And Spike’s girlfriend…

Anyway, I know that Veda Scott has glasses as part of her gimmick, but she doesn’t wrestle with them. Likewise with Percy Watson, they were just gimmick, and lensless like the Dudleys were. IRS would also wear glasses to the ring, but then take them off.

British Bulldog and Arn Anderson were like Thunderbolt, they’d not hide the fact they wore glasses outside the ring.

There’s a bunch of guys who need glasses day to day, but don’t have them while they wrestle or while they are working at all, guys like Stan Hansen, Necro Butcher, Jerry Lynn.

As for eyewear in the ring, other than something like Grand Master Sexay’s Diving Goggles, the only guy I could find who wore glasses in the ring was Curtis Hughes, who, as Mr. Hughes, would wrestle in sunglasses.

I eagerly the thousands of people I forgot listed below.

Connor asks who Doinked Doink when Doink was busy Doinking Doink O.G.

at the end of the Crush/Shawn Michaels match at King of the Ring 1993, 2 Doink the Clowns come down to the ring, one of them obviously had to be Matt Borne but who was the other?

That would be Steve Keirn, a.k.a Skinner, a.k.a one the Fabulous Ones, a.k.a one of the guys who Josh Mathews has the hots for in WWE Pseudo-Canon.

Rich asks about a moment in time.

When did the WWF know they were gonna reveal Rikishi as the guy who ran over Steve Austin and why was it considered such a failure? I mean kayfabe wise it DID make sense. Rikishi had just re debuted right around the 1999 Survivor Series and went on to have arguably the best year of his career in 2000. All while Austin was out. Triple H benefitted as well, making him being revealed as the mastermind all the more believable. And of course now being heel and being related to The Rock, it only made sense for Rikishi to try and spin it on the Great One. The whole thing kinda ended up ruining Rikishi and I cold never figure out why.

It ruined Rikishi because it removed everything that had gotten him over at that point, the dancing, the happy go lucky nature, hanging with Too Cool, and replaced it with a not that interesting character that in kayfabe didn’t make much sense, given that Rock had already been champ a few times before Austin was gone. People not buying Rikishi as the guy killed the angle and derailed his career beyond repair despite the push he got.

Sound familiar?

People didn’t want to boo Rikishi, they didn’t see him as being that guy, and the reason given didn’t work, thus why it had to be stuck back into HHH since he was the only heel over at the time.

Anyway, they didn’t know at the time, as at the time, it was going to be Billy Gunn. They said at the time that the driver had blonde hair, with the intent I think to paint Test as the patsy for Gunn to be the guy (since he wasn’t there to help X-Pac against Kane you see…) but then when it came time for the reveal, Gunn was either injured or too lame to consider (or, to be fair, both), and so the decision to make it Rikishi was done when Austin returned, I believe. But if anyone has data on this (I found nothing), please do share.

Brendon asks about a moment in time that didn’t happen.

You mentioned the chance of the Four Horsemen being reunited in WWF for Summerslam 88 fell through. I never heard that there was a chance Flair was going to WWF at that time. Can you expand on this and the possibility of the Horsemen coming. Holy crap that would’ve been cool!

It indeed would have.

Ric Flair at the time was not particularly happy in the NWA, and he was in negotiation with McMahon to jump ship in 1988. The original idea was for Flair to jump ship early enough to run Savage/Flair for the title, but then it became ‘Flair is on the Brother Love show’ with everyone assuming that would then lead to him hooking up with Arn, Tully and Heenan, in a new stable that totally wasn’t the Horsemen, although the Horsemen name wasn’t trademarked and thus they could well have existed in WWF at the time. Although other theories say that Flair would be paired up with DiBiase, or something else like that.

But yeah, it comes down to Flair almost jumping ship, and with Flair, Arn and Tully in the same company at the same time, plus Bobby Heenan along for the ride, why wouldn’t you do the Horsemen? But Flair ended up staying with Crocket due to a sense of owing them since they had built him up since 1974. He’d eventually jump ship, sure, and it worked out well in the end.

Still, that would have been a hell of an end for Summerslam, Savage gets a roll up win, Flair goes on the attack, Hogan runs out for the save, but here’s Arn and Tully and Heenan and Rick Rude maybe with chairs, and the Megapowers get beat down hard, Hogan and Savage are out like never before, and we end on the five men looking pleased and holding up the four fingers…

And on that very pleasing note, I end this edition of Ask 411 Wrestling. Join me next week when… I begin a very long topic.

Maybe.