Ask 411 Wrestling: Who Should WWE Take From TNA?

Hey there, welcome to Ask 411 Wrestling! I’m Mathew Sforcina, and I wasn’t mentioned on any internationally listened to podcasts, wrestling or otherwise this week.

Well, can’t win them all.

Anyway, let’s get down to business, and the business is wrestling, and the discussion therein.

Got something about wrestling you’d like me to discuss? [email protected] is where you send it.

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Zeldas!

Check out my Drabble blog, 1/10 of a Picture! Doing Chinese Chess right now because why not.

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Bret Hart @ WM11: My apologies, I must have gotten confused with Hart’s multiple title matches two shows running, I guess?

Animal’s The Artist: I’m glad to get confirmation on that, thank you Kevin.

Monsoon, Skaaland, & Zacko: APinOz says that he understands that the trio of Vince Sr’s right hand men getting jobs for life was part of the deal to buy the company, which is not what I read but is believable, it’s just that with Vince unlikely to do a YouShoot any time soon, we’re probably not going to get clarification. Plus he pointed out that Vince Sr’s insistence Vince Jr not becoming a wrestler is part of the reason he became a commentator.

Not Answering The Question: I apologize if I’m not being clear in my answers. I have to try and balance being accurate and being interesting, and there’s only so many times I can say “How the hell should I know?” diplomatically. But statement noted.

The Trivia Crown

Who am I? I was mentioned on the same podcast as yours truly. I was the first person under a certain specification to get into an important big list. Although most of my ring names follow a theme, I was once named for a place. I’ve managed five former/future world champions, six if you include one that almost happened but didn’t, but did, sort of. I revived a title, I’ve held rank, and I’m a Hall of Famer. Who am I?

Crizag has the answer.

Who am I? I was mentioned on the same podcast as yours truly. I was the first person under a certain specification to get into an important big list (First Female on PWI 500). Although most of my ring names follow a theme, I was once named for a place (Ms. Texas). I’ve managed five former/future world champions, six if you include one that almost happened but didn’t, but did, sort of (Booker T, James Storm, Bobby Roode, APA (Ron Simmons & JBL), was supposed to manage Jarrett as “Wynona”, but left the fed due to injury). I revived a title (WWF Womens Title), I’ve held rank (Sgt Rock in SMW), and I’m a Hall of Famer (WWF HOF). Who am I? Jacqueline

Who am I? I once used theme music based on my similarity to another pop culture gimmick (although the music wasn’t originally associated with that pop culture gimmick either). I’ve been a dual champion, despite having not too many title reigns in my career. My final match in a major company was a loss to someone more associated with a different major company, while my last match in another major company was just another number. I’ve been fired while paralysed, survived a merger, and was totally absent from a major angle that you would have expected my to play a part in, given my history. Who am I?

Getting Down To All The Business

I mentioned him before, but APinOz has actual questions.

How is it possible that betting markets are framed on wrestling PPV matches? What’s to stop the booker of said match plonking down a cool hundred grand on the outcome? And how would a betting organisation even know?

I covered this before, didn’t I?

*Googles self*

Well that was a rabbit hole.

Anyway, I have brushed over this matter before, but not this specific question.

In the past, your options were limited, as most major online betting agencies would only offer WrestleMania as a whim/gimmick, and usually there would be very low limits in place, you could only bet $50 maximum or something on any given match. But recently some major companies seem to be doing every PPV, with limits in line with other sports, and the results are… Well, as you would expect, it appears that there are insiders betting on the shows. People who keep track of these things for blogs and such seem to believe there’s insider betting all the time, which is not ideal, but on the other hand, if it’s consistent, then the betting companies can perhaps adjust their odds on the fly to try and recoup some money.

So, could a booker make a killing on a PPV? Sure, it would be easy enough in theory. But online bookies have rules that say if you cheat you forfeit the bet, so if they got a huge set of bets from ‘MyGrapefruitsRHuge69’ the day of the show in the town where the PPV is held, they will investigate. But no, there’s no foolproof way betting companies can catch out bookers manipulating the outcomes, but given that it’s fraud, you’re running a big risk if you’re court by either side. Perhaps a booker can remove the risk from one side of the equation, but it’s still an illegal activity.

But experts do seem to believe there is a good deal of insider betting going on, so apparently you can just do it and get away with it. Although if you are an expert, do write in and tell me off if I’m wrong.

(I did find it slightly amusing that one site has opened up the “Who’s Winning The Rumble?” betting, and Heath Slater and Undertaker are tied at 20/1. Although I’m thinking Ronda Rousey at 500/1 isn’t a bad flutter…)

How did the WWE pull off the magic trick of replacing the ropes and turnbuckles so quickly on Raw when they ran the cruiserweight matches? Were the purple ropes actual different ropes or was there just a purple covering put over the red ropes?

I knew saving this video was a good idea! A person on the Wrestling subreddit forum posted this video based on the question, but if you can’t watch it, basically they cover the ropes with purple tape. The turnbuckle covers are easy, the tape less so, but when you have a bunch of guys, all of them good and quick, stuff can be done.

I’ve got a question about booking. it was said that in the territory days, guys like Vince Senior knew their Madison Square Garden main events at least 12 months ahead of time. When Chris Jericho came into the WWF in 1999, he said he was amazed that he had a year’s worth of storylines propsed and laid out for him when he came in. Now, I can understand that Vince Sr could work that far in advance but I have a hard time believing that the WWF, at the height of the Russo Attitude Era, was able to give individual wrestlers storylines for a year ahead. So what is the normal course of storyline advancement for individuals? Is that a big “selling point” when trying to attract a new wrestler? Did WWE say, for example, to AJ Styles, “We’re going to debut you at the Rumble, transition you to a money feud with John Cena, then give you a title run?”

Did Jericho say that Russo had a year’s storylines for him, or that after he got there, he was given a year’s worth? Because if he didn’t say Russo, I bet you it was Chris Kreski, a.k.a The Most Perfect Writer Of WWE Ever, who laid out the booking that far in advance. Certainly he was the guy who was able to keep everything going with very little plotholes and the like, so if anyone was going to have stuff laid out, it would be him.

And even if it was at the time of Russo, there’s a difference between “having storylines” and “having everything booked out”. As a booker/writer, in theory, you should have the milestones laid out leading into the big cards, and then you work out the week to week stuff week to week. Possibly Jericho was stunned to leave WCW where unless it was Hogan/Sting or something, most everything was booked on the fly.

Regardless, there’s no set rule on what WWE offers for storylines, and no set rule for what people want to hear for that. Some people do want to know they will get opportunities and decent storylines. Others just care about the numbers on the bottom line. Neither is morally superior to the other, just that some people care about different things.

Some people will be brought in on the basis of the storylines that the booker has laid out, the story they want to tell. Others are just talent they want to use, and once they have them, then they’ll work it out.

Wishy-washy, I know, but that’s the truth.

Brian has a question that’s sure to lead to discussion.

Who would you put on wrestling’s Mount Rushmore and why? Say you had one for WWE/North America, and others for maybe Japan, Mexico etc. Who would you put on each one (just sticking to 4 faces) and if there was just one for the world, who would you have on it?

These sorts of questions always ended up in arguments, because people always choose to judge what constitutes worthiness differently, then get into arguments about each other’s criteria. Is this based on money drawn, or cultural impact, or length of time served, or what, you know?

Anyway, I think you need to balance success and impact, and so I guess…

WWE by itself: Hogan, Austin, Rock, Vince.
North America Overall: Hogan, Flair, Rock, Austin
Mexico: El Santo, Mil Máscaras, Blue Demon, Ray Mendoza
Japan: Rikidozan, Misawa, Kobashi, Muta
Australia: Massive Q Mario Milano, Spiros Arion, Roy Heffernan, Al Costello

Overall though? Hogan, Flair, Santo, Misawa.

Tell me I’m wrong below, why don’t you.

Connor asks if Randy’s head was ok.

Was Randy Ortons concussion at Royal Rumble 2005 real?

For those who weren’t around back then, I’m not sure 12 year olds should be reading my columns just yet, I tend to swear occasionally.

But for those who weren’t following wrestling at the time, the Rumble at 05 was the last ditch effort by WWE for saving the Orton face turn of late 2004. You know the one, where Orton won the World Heavyweight Title off ABSOLUTELY NO ONE at Summerslam then was turned on by Evolution the next night on Raw, and then they intended to build nice and long up to Orton/HHH at WM, and it seemed to be ok at first, and then Randy cut this promo…

And it was pretty much unsalvageable from there, for various reasons.

Anyway, by the time the Rumble rolled around, Raw was desperate, and they decided to go the last ditch effort to salvage Orton and to get to Orton/HHH, thus Orton was ‘concussed’ at the Rumble, and continued to be concussed for a few weeks afterwards, with the intent being that surely now he can’t get his revenge, but dammit, he’s so tough and strong and full of heart and blahblahblah.

Didn’t help that the selling of it was for Orton to be fine one moment, then punchdrunk the next. Nor was anything else about it good, to be honest.

But no, it wasn’t a legit concussion. Total storyline. Although if that is the case, maybe this is the kayfabe explanation for Orton hearing voices?

Mick asks about guys being able to work well with multiple people.

Last weekend Trent Seven won the PROGRESS Tag Team titles (which are a shield that splits in half and look awesome) with his partner Pete Dunne as one half of “British Strong Style” What makes this especially interesting is that Trent Seven is already one half of the CHIKARA Tag Team champions with Tyler Bate as one half of “Moustache Mountain” (Trent actually turned on Tyler in PROGRESS to form “British Strong Style” breaking up “Moustache Mountain” in that company whilst it remains in tact in CHIKARA) As such, Trent Severn is now holds the Tag Titles in 2 different – decent sized – companies with 2 different partners whilst being in 2 different named teams. Is there another example of someone else holding 2 different companies Tag titles with 2 different partners at the same time in companies which have “official” World Championships? Or has Trent Seven set a record?

Interesting question. Certainly there are tag teams who hold multiple tag belts at once together (Kings of Wrestling, Young Bucks), but someone doing it with different partners should be something that has happened before at a certain level, given the amount of promotions out there, someone somewhere must have done it, but I can’t think of anyone, and my Google-Fu has failed me. Readers?

Katamari Damacy wants to talk about pure babyfaces.

Watching poor Sami Zayn struggling in the Raw midcard got me thinking about who was the last “pure face” who debuted face and remained a face until they won their first world championship (WWE/F or World Heavyweight Title)? For the WWE, the ones that spring to mind looking at the WWE title lineage is RVD, CM Punk, and Rey Mysterio. Daniel Bryan being disqualified due to turning heel as part of the Nexus invasion of Raw. Though I’d like it if you could find another pure face other than those 4.

Finn Bálor. Debuts in NXT as a face, remains as a face all way through, then is a face against Rollins as he becomes Universal Champion.

Hey, we gotta start counting that.

Anyway, RVD and Punk are both DQed, actually, as RVD started as a heel in The Alliance, and Punk had the brief run in the New Breed. Jeff Hardy is DQed for the New Brood, so Mysterio wins, with the last first title win of either belt, both of them actually, WWE Title in 2011 for an hour, and the World Title in 2006 at WM. The last WWE Title winner that didn’t hold the World Title first and was a face all the way though…

Cena was heel, Eddie was heel… So was Angle… And Show… So was Diesel and Sid… God, Warrior? 1990? Geez… Yeah, has to be Warrior. That’s depressing…

PS: As Massive Q, please upload a video of yourself doing a superkick in an match. I mark out for big man superkicks. I apologize in advance if you decide to indulge my request and your match ends up looking like a Young Bucks spot fest.

You guys just like songs about consumable liquids, don’t you?

Speaking of…

Anyway, the closest I usually get to that is the deal in the corner where I do the Nash foot choke, apologize to the ref, then choke my opponent with wrist tape, apologize to the ref again, then bite my opponent and say I meant that one. But I’ll see what I can do this weekend at Newcastle Pro Wrestling’s Central Coast Show, and if I get one in whatever match I’ll be deciding the outcome of, I’ll try and make sure Unsocial Jordan includes it in the Vlog.

yoxall27 has a few questions.

1. We’ve heard the story of Honky refusing to drop the IC title to Savage back in 88, which led to Savage winning the big one at WMIV, but how did Honky manage that? I struggle to understand how he had enough stroke to refuse to do the job, and find it hard to believe that Vince just said “oh shucks, no problem Honky”. It seems to me that Vince could either have forced him, or fired him, and invented a phantom house show title change rather than backed down. There must be more to it, can you expound on how it worked in practice?

It was a combination of the nature of the deal between the two and the logic Honky used. Honky wasn’t signed to a contract, he and Vince had a handshake deal. HTM said that he just wanted an opportunity, and if he didn’t do a good job, he’d head home. All he asked for Vince was that he protect him on TV.

And thus, when he was asked to get destroyed by Savage on TV, he was in a position to say no because it was in violation of the handshake agreement, and also he was able to tell Vince it was stupid, he and Savage were drawing money on the house show circuit, and it would drop off if Savage stopped chasing him and he chased Savage. Especially as it was in front of 35 million people on TV. Quote: ‘No. I’m not going to do this on television. You want to do it, I’ll do it anywhere else. I’m not doing it in front of 35 million people.’

So, Honky was making Vince money (and had Hogan as a fan), and didn’t object as such to the match as he did the timing, plus he was legally allowed to walk out the door, and even if Vince stripped him or made up a phantom title change, his competition would have the undefeated IC champ on their show now. Sure, WCW would probably have blown it like they blew Bret Hart, but still!

But Honky being able to say “You’ll make more money this way” to Vince was a big part of it.

2. I’ve been reading Scott Keith’s excellent Observer recaps and watching along with some of the shows mentioned on the network. In the late 80s some guys had entrance music and some didnt. By the early 90s practically everyone had entrance music. At some point, somebody high up must have realised that entrance music was a key part of getting a character over, so why around 89, 90, did only some guys have it? Surely as soon as they realised it worked they would have given it to all guys? And it wasn’t like it was jobbers who didn’t have music, some pretty big names walked to the ring with no fanfare way after PileDriver had been released.

I don’t know, and thus I can only offer an educated guess.

A combination of money and the people in question. Some wrestlers may well have said they didn’t want entrance music, it was, even then, still not something that was universally agreed upon, so some wrestlers might indeed refuse the offer.

But mostly it was money. To use ‘real’ songs cost money. To get new songs made cost money as well. Bringing it in for everyone all at once would cost a lot of money. So focus on having music for important people, then slowly but surely bringing in new music for other people on an affordable basis, gradually.

That’s what I assume. Again, I don’t know.

3. With TNA possibly being bought out by WWE, which wrestlers do you see them picking up? Appreciate the deal might solely be for the tape library and IP, but no doubt they’ll look to fill out their weak roster following the brand extension by offering a few guys contracts. Who do you think they’ll be interested in, and who do you think could be a big success in WWE?

Well this, and the few other questions around this topic that might filter through in the coming weeks, are obviously now a bit out of date, but anyway, let’s answer it, will WWE pick up some TNA people?

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. I suspect the TNA contracts have clauses in them that allow for outside bookings, for instance, and thus if WWE picks them up, then they might have to honor those clauses…

I strongly suspect that if WWE does eventually ‘buy’ TNA, they won’t pick up any contracts, because they’ll wait until the company is dead, and then buy the library and trademarks and then turn to the roster and negotiate with anyone they want fresh, and in a position of power since they can dictate terms since the major competition is dead, and thus offer much lower salaries.

WWE would certainly go after the Hardys, maybe a play for Bennett and/or Maria, Gail Kim probably, maybe Decay. Guys like Lashley, Galloway, Cody, Rex, EC3, I’m not sure how WWE would approach them given how they split up in the first place.

I don’t see an InVasion 2.0 or anything. Anyone WWE wants, they’ll offer lowball contracts to, but they just want the tape library so they can admit Sting and Christian and Angle and so on are multi-time champions.

Who could work out? Any of the guys who TNA have used ‘better’, Galloway, EC3, Lashley etc, they could work just fine. Gail and Maria and Jade, the Knockouts who can work, they could slide in easily too. Beyond that… Decay toned down could be ok, and The Hardys can always revert, but I’m not sure they want to, and merging the Broken and WWE Universes… That barely worked in nL’s Universes!

Nightwolf has a few questions.

1. I read somewhere that Andre the Giant injured someone when he picked them up in a vertical suplex. Can you tell me who the wrestler was, and when this occurred?

No I can’t, as I sadly was unable to find any record of such an event. Readers? Anyone help me out?

2. Speaking of injures, there is something I was always curious about. I know when a wrestler needs time off due to injures, they have a Heel wrestler beat them down and injure them. This then gives a reason why that wrestler was taken off T.V. My question is, how do they do it in a way, that they don’t accidentally injure that wrestler even more?

Usually by ‘injuring’ a body part that isn’t the one that’s actually injured. Got a knee problem? You take out the arm. Got a foot issue? Drive your head into the mat. Got a neck problem? OK, that’s something that you probably don’t want to reaggravate.

But I’m sure someone is typing up a counterpoint to that, pointing out an example when they ‘injured’ an actually injured body part. In those cases, I would assume, the injury is less a drastic problem as it is something long term, and the guy doing the injuring is someone the injuree trusts, and like anything in wrestling you just take the move. Worst case scenario, you get an injury to the injury. Bad, obviously, but you’re off anyway, so it’s not THAT big a deal, right?

Specific ways to avoid injury depend on the method given, far too many to name here.

3. AJ Styles in his wrestling career has been a member of: The Christian Coalition, TNA Front Line, The Angle Alliance, Fortune, Bullet Club and the Club. Is AJ Styles the only wrestler to be in the most stables? How many wrestlers have been in 2 or stables?

A LOT of wrestlers have been in more than 2 stables. I cannot sit here and name them all. But can I find someone who has been in more than 6, is there a 7 or better?

Let’s see, some names off the top of my head…

Matt Hardy: The New Brood, Team Xtreme, Team Mattitude, Immortal, S.C.U.M, The Broken Universe.
Eric Young: Team Canada, Planet Jarrett, (Robert Roode Inc), TNA Frontline, The World Elite, The Band.
Virgil: nWo, Powers That Be, West Texas Rednecks.
Curt Hennig: The Diamond Exchange, The Heenan Family, The Four Horsemen, the nWo, West Texas Rednecks.
Steve Austin: The Dangerous Alliance, The Million Dollar Corporation, The Power Trip, The Alliance.
Sean Waltman: Million Dollar Corporation, nWo, DX, X Factor, La Legión Extranjera, D-Generation Mex, The Band.

So thanks to AAA, Waltman is up to 7. Anyone beat that readers? Tell me below if there is someone, and I’ll mea culpa it next week. Until then, I hope you have a wonderful week!