wrestling / Columns

Who Was Better: Brock Lesnar Or Randy Orton?

August 11, 2016 | Posted by Justin Watry
Image Credit: WWE

Hi, I’m Justin Watry. You may remember me from such classic columns as March 2012’s “WWE WrestleMania 28: Sheamus Should Defeat Daniel Bryan in Less Than a Minute” and October 2015’s “WWE NXT: Bobby Roode, You’re Next.”

Reader Feedback

Billy: Too bad. You scrolled past a well written article to leave an unnecessary comment (giving him more to write about next week – great job!) just to try and get some upvotes. Shame really.

Thanks man, but it has been eight years. Eight years, and they are still at it. Might as well boo John Cena too!!! That is still a thing apparently…

Mal Machine: Is Watry going to be on Big Brother?

I wish! If I was on Big Brother, I wouldn’t be writing this column. Can’t do both. Another reason to campaign for me, right?

Bobby: I’m pretty sure it was already announced that the winner of the Cruiserweight Classic would be the first/new Cruiserweight Champion. So I’m pretty sure the title is coming back.

That has not been announced. Nothing on RAW, Smackdown, their website, or the Cruiserweight Classic has mentioned a championship. All we know is there is a trophy for the winner of the tournament (pictured with the brackets). You may ultimately be right though about the belt coming back, but so far – no definitive word yet.

AG Awesome: Lol, I have to admit I also thought the not cursing thing was religious related! Before I started working in a blue collar industry I didn’t curse much. My grandmother always said “people who say bad words only do so because they aren’t capable of thinking of the correct word to use”.

Anyway, I really like your trade of Zayn/Owens & Cesaro for Kalisto & Orton. Maybe you can do a column on trade ideas? Also, good points on the seemingly ridiculous lack of planning regarding the titles. I think they should have done an exclusive title per brand, tag for RAW and women’s for smackdown. Then we’d get American Alpha on RAW.

Your grandmother is right. Very awesome second paragraph, my mind is always a few columns ahead since I write so many.

Benjamin J: “I would put my track record up against any other writer during the past eight years.”

Quantity is not quality. I’d take a sporadically written Len Archibald column, or even Ryan Byers – a guy who I often disagree with but can admit is a far better writer than you in his sleep – over this one at the drop of a hat.

You should follow your own advice in my comment sections going forward…

Backstory

WWE Summerslam 2016 is fast approaching. While we have a fairly stacked card for the August pay-per-view, there is still plenty of debate going on about which match should close the show. Is it the first ever Universal Championship bout? Is it the big John Cena vs. AJ Styles rematch? Or maybe the WWE Title match between Dean Ambrose and Dolph Ziggler? Haha, okay, only kidding on that last one. In my mind, if it is not the Finn Balor/Seth Rollins clash, it has to be the match 14 Years In The Making: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton! Even though the outcome is not in any doubt, there is a lot of intrigue over these stars stars, even in 2016. From their initial debuts to their young careers all the way to entering veteran status – the comparisons are definitely apparent. However, as they build to a collision course at Summerslam, that begs the question – who had a better career?

Well, let’s try to tackle this topic.

Who Was Better: Brock Lesnar OR Randy Orton?

Best of the rest – Look, we can get this out of the way now. Both have been protected from day one and treated as a main event star of the future. Even before having a single match, it was made clear they were to get spotlighted and be held in high regard. Both have had a run in (or two or three or…) with a drug suspension. Recently Brock Lesnar with the USADA (Wellness policy in WWE has always stated part-timers are not tested). Randy Orton with some issues in the past. Enhancements? Wrong. No explanation needed. Both have played heel and face, and both were once youngest WWE/World Champion in company history at different Summerslam events. More history leading to their upcoming match.

2002 debut: Brock Lesnar – The night after WrestleMania 18, quite a few memorable moments took place on RAW. The one that stood out to me, even more than the Hulk Hogan ovation, was Brock Lesnar debuting with Paul Heyman by his side. He absolutely destroyed a good portion of the Hardcore Title scene and left bodies laying. Poor Spike Dudley in particular. With the slime ball Paul E next to him, the message was clear: Brock is a heel and a force to be reckoned with. Impressive debut.

2002 debut: Randy Orton – A short while after that episode of Raw, Randy Orton showed up on Smackdown. With the brand split in full swing, WWE needed to debut a few new stars, and certainly 2002 had a great class. Nothing too flashy or amazing from the future Viper. Just a solid outing against Hardcore Holly leading to an upset victory. The rookie had left his mark, beating a long-time star on the roster. Fine for what it was.

Mid-card career: Brock Lesnar – Well, there was not much of a mid-card run for Lesnar. Like The Undertaker, he was treated as an attraction right from the get go. Even when he wasn’t at the top of the card, I am not sure he ever officially fell into “mid-card status.” What happened was Brock Lesnar wiped the floor with a few guys between March-June 2002 before winning the King of the Ring tournament. He defeated The Hardyz a bunch of times, got by Rikishi, Ric Flair, Rob Van Dam, Bubba Ray Dudley, Test, etc. A good group of guys to beat in his initial first few months on the roster as he got ready for his first PPV main event…a place he wouldn’t leave for the rest of his career.

Mid-card career: Randy Orton – This one is quite lengthy. Randy Orton may have been ‘rushed’ to the top by management, but he absolutely had a strong mid-card run from 2002-2004. Injuries aside, he had a cool RNN gimmick while out hurt, he became a member of Evolution which ran wild on the RAW brand, main evented Summerslam 2003 in an Elimination Chamber match for the World Title, feuded with Shawn Michaels (pinning him at September’s Unforgiven), was the sole survivor to boot Stone Cold Steve Austin out of the WWE (ha!), won the IC Title from Rob Van Dam in late 2003 and held the gold until July 2004, had an excellent showing in the 04′ Royal Rumble, was featured in a great story line with the returning Mick Foley (and The Rock) around WrestleMania XX season. Plus, the man slowly became just another member of Evolution to THE future of the business all in just about two years. Lesnar had the better debut, but Orton had a strong showing in the mid-card proving his worth.

Summerslam 2002: Brock Lesnar – Less than six months after debuting, Brock Lesnar was unpinned, had never submitted, King of the Ring winner, pummeling and leaving Hulk Hogan unconscious on Smackdown, and facing The FREAKIN’ Rock for the Undisputed Championship in the main event of Summerslam 2002. To say he was fast tracked to the top would be an understatement…except for the fact that this was all so cool. It worked. The live crowds started chanting “Goldberg” and “Boring” at him, but after a few weeks, people shut up and let the man do his thing. WWE had a vision in mind to crown him champ, and they did. Whether he was ready or still unproven was irrelevant, he was undefeated and on top of the company.

Summerslam 2004: Randy Orton – Having jut lost the IC Championship to Edge at Vengeance 2004 in July, the next step for the youngster was to the main event scene. Still a member of Evoluton and a heel, that would prove to be very tricky. WWE had Orton win a battle royal on RAW to officially become #1 contender, but the irony was that on the exact same night, Triple H (his friend) was exiting the main event scene. Surely, that would cause problems. Randy Orton (like Lesnar) was being thrown to the wolves at Summerslam in his 20s, but it was time to see what he had. Mr. RKO would end up earning that nickname, winning the World Title and closing the PPV as a young, very young, champion.

Failed face run: Brock Lesnar in 2003 – After a dominant feud besting The Undertaker inside Heck on a Deck in their finale, Brock Lesnar lost the championship to Big Show at Survivor Series, thanks to Paul Heyman turning on him. Only a few month run as champ. However, he was hurt, and WWE wanted to cash in on his ever growing popularity in a new role. Hindsight is certainly a funny thing, but make no mistake about it, this WAS too early to end his heel run, BUT at the same time, fans were starting to rally behind The Beast. Needless to say, the magic didn’t last. A little over six months later in summer 2003, the face run came to an end. He went back to being the MANster Brock Lesnar.

Failed face run: Randy Orton in 2004: – Ugh. The night after Summerslam, World Champion Randy Orton was betrayed by his Evolution buddies. Triple H, especially, had it out for him and left him laying in a pool of blood to close RAW. This was a turning point in the young man’s career because he was now on his own. Love him or hate him, the praise or blame fell on HIS shoulders. The point of this was to make Randy a sympathetic figure, to boo HHH over his jealousy, and cheer on Orton beating his former mentor. Well, that was a nice plan, except it felt rushed. Heck, earlier in the night, Orton was STILL ripping on the fans and gloating. Unlike Lesnar in 2002, there was no groundswell of support to even think of a face turn until MAYBE WrestleMania 21 season. My, oh things would have been differently then, huh? Regardless, the fans didn’t really like Orton that much, and he ended up dropping the title to Triple H at Unforgiven 2004 – just one more after supposedly being crowned the future of the business and youngest World Champion in history. Barely six months later, Mr. RKO would return to his heel role where he would stay for many years.

Ongoing criticism: Brock Lesnar and his schedule – Yes, he is a part-timer, but you know what? He SHOULD be a part-timer. Like Triple H. Like The Undertaker. The Rock, Shawn Michaels (before retiring, etc. These guys have put in the time already up and down the road and earned themselves a fat paycheck to wrestle a few matches per year. Notice the names that get those type of contracts. Can you really argue any of them do NOT deserve more pay and/or featured PPV spots on the huge events? Brock Lesnar is not an average shmuck who will or even wants to be in pointless filler RAW/Smackdown bouts every week. He is Brrrrrrrrrrock Lesnar. The Conqueror. The Beast Incarnate. The NCAA, WWE, and UFC Champion of the World. No wonder why Dana White wants him back so bad and allowed rules to be changed for him to return at the drop of a hat and no wonder why Vince McMahon scrambles to keep him happy…we would all do the exact same thing to keep him. You know it, and I know it. That being said, he was gone from WWE for eight years, between 2004 and 2012. When judging his body of work, that has to play a factor into things. While Orton was around all those years main eventing, Lesnar wasn’t even in the company.

Ongoing criticism: Randy Orton and his injuries – I think the part-time thing brought up for Brock Lesnar is kind of unfair. Just the same, there is a similar situation with Orton that is comparable. The guy has suffered a lot of injuries. Barring the suspensions and out of the ring trouble, he has missed some time due to injury. I mean, he JUST came back after missing all of 2016 (until now). He is set to battle Lesnar at Summerslam; admit it publicly or not, there has to be at least a tad bit concern over his well being going to Suplex City. Certainly with a banged up shoulder just healed. Christian, Mark Henry, even Edge have all battled injuries throughout their careers, and despite being a fan of them all, it is worth mentioning looking at their legacies.

Two WrestleMania main events: Brock Lesnar – Above all else, wrestlers dream of competing in the main event of WM main event. That is or SHOULD be the goal of every single talent on the WWE roster. It is the pinnacle of the industry. For Brock Lesnar, he was there twice. First was during his rookie campaign. Following a Royal Rumble victory in January, he went after Kurt Angle’s WWE Championship and won! In 2015, he was back where he belonged closing WM31 aws the reigning WWE World Champion versus the challenger and Royal Rumble winner Roman Reigns. The roles had been reversed, but it was all the same for Brock. The Beast delivered his usual hard hitting, intense arsenal on his adversary showing just why he was in the main event of WrestleMania. While his 2003 victory will be more memorable over the long term (especially considering the shooting star press finish mishap), I actually enjoyed his epic clash with Reigns more in 2015.

Two WrestleMania main events: Randy Orton – Like Brock, Randy has main evented two different Mania. First was in 2009 as the Royal Rumble winner challenging WWE Champion Triple H. In a losing effort. The second time was in 2014 as WWE World Champion taking on both Daniel Bryan and Batista in a triple threat bout. Also in a losing effort, although Mr. RKO was not involved in the grand finale – that was Bryan making Batista tap out. Unfortunately, Orton has had a lot of great moments at WM over the years, but his main events? Well, 2009 was more or less botched due to the order of the card and silly stipulation added on, and 2014 was all about Daniel Bryan’s journey to the top. Now ain’t that a kick in the head?

Accomplishments: Brock Lesnar – King of the Ring winner three months after debuting, WWE Undisputed Champion within five months, beat multiple legends clean, Royal Rumble winner, Ironman match winner, main evented multiple PPVs, top star of each brand for an extended period of time, defeated John Cena in convincing fashion at Summerslam 2014 to become WWE World Champion, has crossed over to the mainstream in both sports and entertainment, and perhaps most importantly – ended The Streak in 2014 pinning The Undertaker one, two, three.

Accomplishments: Randy Orton – Youngest WWE/World Champion in history, seven month run as IC Champion, known as the Legend Killer, member of Evolution, Royal Rumble winner, top star on both RAW and Smackdown, has crossed over into the mainstream with his patented “RKO Outta Nowhere” signature move, starred in various WWE Films, remarkable success at Survivor Series, 12-time WWE or World Champion, and has enjoyed well over a decade of main event success in the largest wrestling company in the world, continuing to this day.

Summary: Okay, folks. I now turn it over to YOU to decide! Is longevity a key in your vote? Or in-ring ability? Promo skills? Championships? Crossover appeal with fans? Whatever your criteria, it is a tough battle between two guys who came onto the scene in 2002 and will battle on pay-per-view for the first time ever in just a few weeks: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton?


Self Promotion

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