411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Has Brie Bella Been a Reckless Worker Since Her Return?

Welcome back to 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Len Archibald & Ken Hill.

Questions were sent out Tuesday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

1. Brie Bella has been a reckless worker since returning to action.

Len Archibald: FACT – Kenneth, we ride again old friend! Let’s get this out of the way…Brie Bella has never been a good wrestler. The one match she had that showed any real talent was her Summerslam match against Stephanie McMahon – and I’m sure that: 1) she pushed herself because she was in the ring against a McMahon and a sub-par performance would basically kill her wrestling career and 2) I can’t believe I am saying this…but because Stephanie was the one carrying and calling the match. In the last week alone, Brie crushed Zelina Vega with a knee, decked Miz in the eye, decked Ruby Riott with an elbow, concussed Liv Morgan and nearly killed herself TWICE with suicide dives. I know, I know: shit happens in wrestling, the men botch themselves just as much, she apologized for it, etc. Here’s the thing: most professional wrestlers make mistakes periodically, once in a blue moon and apart from that, they still understand the fundamentals and are still able to put on a decent match. Charlotte and Becky have made their mistakes…are they considered reckless or dangerous? Charlotte could legit one day concuss someone on Natural Selection alone, but she isn’t considered reckless because the majority of the time, she is a capable, safe worker. Seth Rollins? Yeah, he had an absolutely HORRID 2015, but he is trusted on the basis that 98% of the time, he can work a great, safe match (by the way, 2015 was THREE YEARS AGO – get over it.) Asuka is the absolute stiffest female worker on the roster and we don’t hear anything about her injuring people because she knows the fundamentals of understanding distance and pacing with another performer. Ember Moon has only injured Billie Kay with the Eclipse, but no one says anything else about her because she is proven to understand timing in the ring. The point to all this is that Brie has NEVER been a good pro wrestler in the first place, and after TEN YEARS, if she still can’t have the basics of in ring timing, pacing and distance work down, something is going to happen. And it’s been happening. A lot. It seems like every time Brie is in the ring since returning, she does something that is a danger to herself or her opponent. I don’t mind the Bella Twins – I understand their value in WWE and I actually believe Nikki is a capable worker, especially when she is in the ring with someone that can put together a great match. I have always believed that anyone that has been injured or out of action for an extended period of time should return to NXT, even for a month, just to get ring rust out. It didn’t happen, shit happened and now Liv Morgan has paid for it via concussion. Detractors are calling this a biased attack because of the Bella name, but no one has brought up Nikki as an example – and we have seen the calls for Sasha Banks’ head on a pike at times for her own recklessness (and even then, Sasha has built goodwill because she has wrestled perfect matches in the past and was even considered the best performer in all of 2015.) Detractors have the gall to blame Liv Morgan for this, like she would have instantly been aware mid-kick that Brie decided to speed up the rhythm of the YES Kicks without warning. Detractors mention that in 10 years, she hasn’t injured anyone, but conveniently forget bulldog attempts in the past that looked like they broke someone’s nose, that weird kneebuster/backbreaker/gutbreaker thing she tried to do when the Bellas first became a thing (and WWE made sure she never tried it again after a few times of nearly breaking people), those times where she tried to use Eat Defeat as a finisher and always looked like she was about to break someone’s neck (and WWE made sure she never tried that again.) See a pattern? It happens a lot as well – WWE will gauge how safe a worker is, let them try a few moves, if it works, keep it – if it doesn’t – we will never speak of it again. Don’t suddenly pretend the Divas Era never existed and try to erase hundreds of matches (The Bellas included) filled with horrible moments of near concussion, injuries and breaks. They tried this with Eva Marie until she proved she had LITERALLY nothing to offer in the ring. Watch a Brie match and really examine what she actually DOES compared to Bayley, Charlotte, Asuka or Becky. It is extremely limited, especially since she has returned. There is a very good reason for that. Paul Heyman has a saying about it. I am not calling for Brie to be fired. I sincerely believe she is remorseful and apologized to Liv Morgan privately. It’s just from my vantage point since returning, Brie Bella has…just not been good, and between her past performances and current run, she has not improved. I’m just listing facts, but – nothing will come of this, though – and outside of Brie posting some insane rant against African-Americans, Jews or the disabled, Brie will still be around WWE. All I hope is that this past week serves as a lesson to her, and she makes a dedicated attempt to pay more attention in the ring and make a more concerted effort to work with her ring partners. Wow. That went tl;dr levels of stream of consciousness.

Ken Hill: FACT – Yes we’re back, back again! Len-Ken’s back, tell a friend! Always happy to take on 411Mania’s beloved Archduke in FoF, so let’s get to it!

I have made it rather clear in the comments section concerning my feelings on Brie’s situation surrounding her alarming amount of ring rust, resulting in “BOTTTTTTTCH MODE” moments galore. Her attempting two sloppily done tope suicidas was bad enough, but then…

First, let me say that Brie shouldn’t SOLELY be shouldering the blame for this incident; the ref should’ve immediately thrown up the X signal as soon as he saw something was wrong, but he didn’t. That’s negligence if not outright ignorance on his part and something that should be addressed with all of WWE’s in-ring officials from now on. Liv admittedly fell into the kicks rather than leaned back to sell the whiplash as a lot of superstars do, but that’s more a rookie mistake rather than pure carelessness, as Liv’s only been on the WWE scene for 3 years. As Bully Ray himself said in a recent interview, “it’s wrestling, not freakin’ ballet”, you’re bound to make a slip-up in your early years and sometimes you end up paying the price, like Liv unfortunately did.

However, with all that said, it doesn’t excuse Brie, a WWE “veteran” of 11 years, for making the kind of mistakes she’s been making on-screen, including dragging a out-of-it Morgan up by her head and neck to her corner to be tagged out rather than simply roll her up or call for a medic. That’s something you NEVER do to someone who’s clearly concussed, as it can lead to further head damage and potential neck injuries. A fellow commenter brought up other part-timers/”retirees” like Rock, Taker and Triple H and the risk they run of having ring rust every time they make a in-ring return. After having a good laugh at the notion of there being any sort of comparison between three TRUE veterans of the industry and Brie Bella (and for the record I say this from a work-rate perspective, not a gender-based one, ladies), I explained that these three men train throughout the year to be prepared for the off-chance of stepping back into the ring. Triple H and Taker train year round (Taker mostly to keep himself from falling apart like he did at WM 33 with Roman) and Rock had WWE regulars like Hawkins and Axel do live scrimmages with him for hours on end to get him back into in-ring shape for his various returns. Rolling around in a ring with your husband, who up to earlier this year couldn’t realistically take a lot of bumps, for a couple hours a week doesn’t count.

Aside from that, Brie’s been more focused on the family business with Nikki and raising Birdie Jo; while there’s certainly nothing wrong with focusing on running a franchise and raising a family, it takes time away from proper in-ring training when you’re gearing up for a return, even if it’s a short-term one. Rather than worry about promoting the Bella Twins brand, feeling “bummed” about her botches and making half-assed apologies to Liv Morgan, perhaps Brie should be more concerned about getting some time in at the Performance Center so she doesn’t crack someone else in the head like she did to poor Liv.

2. Nikki Cross will be called up to the main roster by the end of 2018.

Len Archibald: FICTION – This question was asked before about someone else – I don’t remember who, but my logic is the same…Unless you are a MAJOR name that plans to debut for a major WrestleMania storyline, WWE normally does not debut new talent in the fall and winter months. The only possibility I could see is her “debuting” to the main roster at Evolution and at this time, there doesn’t seem to be much indication that will happen or anyone it would make sense to feud with at that time. Cross still seems to have unfinished business in NXT (was she somehow involved in Aleister Black’s attack? Is Sanity returning to NXT?) Nikki Cross will debut on the main roster, but I still believe it won’t be until at least the Women’s Royal Rumble, or in some capacity with Sanity again on Smackdown after WrestleMania. As much as I want more Crazy Sexy Cool Nikki on my TV, I don’t see it happening in 2018.

Ken Hill: FACT – I understand why they kept Cross in NXT while the rest of SAnitY was booted up to Smackdown; they needed a veteran presence in the NXT Women’s Division to help get over the next crop of female wrestlers, as we saw with her and Baszler and her most recent program with the returning Bianca BelAir. She’s also got a prominent role in the “Who Assaulted Aleister Black?” storyline, so there’s that as well. Once it plays out though, I’d definitely be all for her coming up to the main roster before the year is out. Ideally, I’d like to see her come up on the Smackdown side, not just so she can eventually reunite with her SAnitY brethren, but also pose herself as a future challenger to champion Becky Lynch once the “Relent-Lass” ginger snap wraps up her title feud with Charlotte.

3. Rey Mysterio will be positioned on Smackdown when he returns to WWE.

Len Archibald: FICTION – Ohhhh. This was actually a hard question to answer – then I thought about it in logical business terms. As much as fans laud Smackdown as the better show, Rey Mysterio is probably viewed as a bigger star that should be on Raw. So at the very least, he would make his presence felt on the flagship show (Mysterio vs. Reigns…do you REALLY think this match isn’t being considered and/or planned out?) Do I want to see Rey vs. Andrade Cien Almas, especially at WrestleMania? HELL YES. I am a cynical asshole, though and I don’t see it happening. The other possibility – and this is the longest of shots, is that Triple H convinces Rey to be the face of 205 Live. It makes sense. Rey could use a lighter schedule, 205 Live could use the boost in viewership and his name gives fans incentive to stay behind after Smackdown. Rey vs. Alexander, Rey vs. Murphy, Rey vs. Gulak and Rey vs. Ali could all be bangers. Raw and 205 makes more sense on a cynical, logistical level than appearing on Smackdown, unfortunately…even though I NEED my Rey vs. Almas fix.

Ken Hill: FACT – I’ve really enjoyed Rey’s part-time work in the last couple years; he’s become like a Lucha version of Jericho that can fit in rather seamlessly wherever he goes, whether it be as a mentor for Dragon Azteca Jr. in Lucha Underground, teaming with Liger and Tanahashi in NJPW or main-eventing the first-ever “All In” PPV with Fenix and Bandido, and he’s looked as great doing it all as when he first burst onto Smackdown in 2002…

Rey’s got big enough star power and veteran presence that he would be a welcome addition, however long or short-term, on either the RAW or Smackdown roster. Personally, I’d love to see him in a player-coach kind of role on 205 Live, having matches with and against the members of Lucha House Party, against Gulak and his constituents and even see how the champ Cedric Alexander measures up with the vaunted King of Mystery. Hell, if Maverick goes in on AOP as a full-time manager down the road, Rey would be a perfect replacement to step in as 205’s new GM, a true Cruiserweight veteran who wouldn’t be afraid to step in against 205 Live’s best and brightest if given the chance.

SWITCH!

4. WWE made the right call signing Mia Yim.

Ken Hill: FACT – This one’s a no-brainer here. A two-time Mae Young Classic participant, former Knockouts Champion, a shining star in SHINE and Full Impact Pro, and someone who’s really come into her own since her untimely leg injury in late 2017, Mia Yim is a big-time signing for WWE’s female roster. We’ve seen that she can hang with the best in her tourney matches against Baszler and Allysin “Sienna” Kay and has slowly but surely developed a charisma all her own outside the ring. The question here is where she will end up once the Mae Young Classic has run its course. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see someone with her level of experience shoot straight on up to the main roster, but I believe it would be more beneficial for Mia and the fans if she had a short “showcase” run down in NXT, to give regular viewers, those who aren’t as familiar with her in-ring background as some of us are, a chance to get to know her before she makes the big move to RAW or Smackdown. Personally, I’d like to see her on the blue brand being seconded by her hate-buddy Shelton Benjamin…

Len Archibald: FACT – Larry, did you decide to lob one to us? Yes, yes, a million times yes, WWE made the right call snatching up Mia Yim. She is one of the best talents, male or female in the world. She can wrestle various styles, can hang with the men if a storyline warranted it, is “exotic”, but can speak clear English and can always be presented as a threat to any title. She is only 29. Her time in Impact as Jade is one of the more underrated bits of the history of female competitors there. Even as part of The Dollhouse, Jade stood out and carried herself like a star. Her performances in last years and this year’s Mae Young Classic obviously opened the eyes of the WWE scouting brass. She should have been signed last year. There are an insane number of matches that Yim can have that have the potential of being great. Another great signing to bolster their women’s division. My body is ready.

5. The booking of Andrade Cien Almas & Zelina Vega on the main roster has been a complete disappointment.

Ken Hill: FICTION – What is this based on, the fact that he’s not already a champion? His win-loss record? In the case of the latter, he’s 8-5 on Smackdown, which isn’t too shabby considering a couple of those losses came against highly-touted competitors in Daniel Bryan and WWE Champion AJ Styles, the latter of whom’s matches against Almas have drawn rare praise from “Caesar” McMahon and may very well lead to a big-time push for the former La Sombra down the road. I’m not worried about his booking in that regard. In fact, if Daniel Bryan were to come out of WM 35 as WWE Champion, Almas would be the perfect first challenger to step up to D-Bry. My only real beef with Almas’ time on Smackdown was how long they took in getting the ball rolling with him, delaying his main roster run after going to the trouble of promoting him for weeks. That, and his middling mic skills. Vega’s there with him for a reason; let her do the talking and the hype, and let Almas’ in-ring work speak for itself.

Len Archibald: FICTION – Almas did wrestle against the WWE Champion in a great match, even in a losing effort, correct? He’s been featured pretty prominently since Smackdown gave him the ball to perform in the ring, right? If Almas and Vega went the way of Tye Dillinger and disappeared only to show up in backstage segments to be crushed by Randy Orton or was given the jobber treatment against Aiden English, then – yes, that would be a disappointment. But Almas has been given chances to deliver in the ring (which he has with flying colors), Vega has been given the chance to develop her character and engage fans in storylines (which she has) and the pair is one of the more entertaining, and lately, consistent acts on Smackdown. Almas taking it to AJ Styles only means that the brass has faith in him already. I don’t remember Dillinger, Breeze or Eric Young given that opportunity within their first half year on Smackdown. This is a knee-jerk question IMO…not everyone needs to be given the rocket right away…if that was the case, there would be no consistency or suitable hierarchy in wrestling. And I know I say this as we discuss WWE, but we all know Smackdown has been treated as the “traditional wrestling” show. Almas is doing fine right now. Ask this question in a year once he’s been masked again and teams with Sin Cara in meaningless tag feuds while Zelina Vega becomes Carmella’s BFF.

6. What is your level of excitement for the WWE Super Show-Down event in Australia?

Ken Hill: 7 out of 10 – Like the GRR, Super Show-Down feels like little more than a glorified, televised house show, but it does possess a certain level of intrigue concerning the WWE Championship, what with Styles and Joe’s no-holds-barred encounter for the title, as well as the #1 Contendership match with Bryan and Miz and their continuing epic rivalry. There are some interesting directions they could go in with the title depending on whom emerges victorious in either match. With a Cruiserweight Title match and homecoming for Buddy Murphy, Becky and Charlotte’s latest chapter in their war as former friends and now bitter enemies, a big-time six-man battle pitting The Shield against Strowman and his Dogs of War, and Taker and Triple H renewing hostilities with Kane and HBK in tow all rounding out the match card, it may be a glorified house show, but damn if it isn’t a stacked one.

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Len Archibald: 6 out of 10 – Yikes. I should be more excited. I should. But I’m not feeling Undertaker vs. Triple H again. WrestleMania 28 was, to me – a perfect way to end that rivalry. I am not excited for the potential angle between having Kane and HBK getting involved, potentially leading to his return to the ring (I have egg on my face, I said HBK shouldn’t and wouldn’t come back – but…teddibiaselaugh.gif.) WWE is pimping this as the main event, and it just isn’t my jam anymore. AJ vs. Joe in a no-DQ match, I’m down for. Miz vs. Bryan for the #1 contendership, yes (because I am pretty sure this is planting seeds for them to face off at WM for the WWE Title), The Shield in a six-man tag? Yes, please. Lynch vs. Charlotte II? Alexander vs. Murphy? The card seems good on paper. But…There doesn’t seem to be any urgency or stakes. Evolution is coming up. Survivor Series is not too far away. Then we get into WrestleMania season. I’m not sold on watching this with anticipation and not wanting Jess to bother me. This…is more of a “fold my laundry while it’s on” event.

PLUG TIME: Watch my latest episode of RING RIFFS (Subscribe!) where I react to the infamous Shelly Martinez vs. Rebel match from TNA/Impact Knockouts Knockdown 2. …why do I do this to myself? Check out other episodes as well!