411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Was Lesnar vs. Strowman at No Mercy Disappointing?

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Greg DeMarco & Andrew Swift debate!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

1. The Braun Strowman vs. Brock Lesnar match (match, not result) was disappointing.

Andrew Swift: FACT – There’s really only one place to put the blame, and that’s squarely on Brock Lesnar’s shoulders. His transitions were off, his impact and force was minimal, and that Strowman was put down with barely any offense from Lesnar made a mockery of Braun’s build and dampened his star. The money Lesnar makes is exorbitant, and neither his performances nor his business impact come even remotely close to justifying his salary. His disappearing act leaves Raw without its top champion for months on end, and when he’s around he mostly just bounces around while Paul Heyman cuts the same promo he’s been cutting for years. If WWE had any sense to them, they’d decline to offer him a new deal going forward. He’s far more cost than value, and the company should be looking to invest in and reward performers that are actually on the show.

Greg DeMarco: FACT – After this match was over, I was left feeling one thing and one thing only – I am ready for a new Universal Champion. I love having a dominant champion, but this just isn’t entertaining. It’s paint by numbers booking, and as much as we all know this is building to Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns at WrestleMania 34, I’d give anything for them to pull a shocking upset at Survivor Series and have Finn Balor (rumored opponent there for Brock) to go over. As far as this specific bell-to-bell match, it really was an under whelming mesh of styles. They’re too similar. Seeing these two monsters go at it was fun in small doses, but not when they’re the only competitors in the match. And going on last after a great John Cena vs. Roman Reigns match and an Enzo Amore vs. Neville result that had everyone buzzing. Swap the places of Cena-Reigns with this and I think it would have felt a little better.

2. You’re excited for a possible Shield vs. Miztourage match.

Andrew Swift: FICTION – All the love in the world for The Miz, who over the last year is almost certainly WWE’s greatest performer, but Bo Dallas and Curtis Axel are not exactly the type of stalwarts that would make one believe a Shield reunion is necessary. This brings up another issue: WWE’s refusal to allow characters to mingle across stories or feuds. That Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns haven’t had meaningful interaction of late despite Dean being on Raw for nearly half a year is asinine, especially given that Ambrose reunited with Rollins and Seth showed legitimate contrition for his actions three years prior during this time. Roman really had zero opinion on these matters? Ambrose wouldn’t seek out the guy he was basically in a stable with prior to the brand split for his thoughts? Come on. Connect the dots better, or else everything will continue to feel as if it comes out of nowhere and isn’t connected to anything that came before. Things happen, and then other things happen. There’s no meaning or purpose behind the narratives, and it should be the easiest thing in the world to produce–the performers know how their characters should interact in given scenarios, but the rigidity in scripting negates any opportunity for real world-building.

Greg DeMarco: FACT – Hell-to-the-yes. We’re talking Tony Acero getting to hang out with AJ Lee levels of excitement here. When The Shield broke up, I was quick to say they needed to wait 5 years before doing the full-on reunion. Well it’s 2017 and things move much faster now. Plus we have an anniversary of sorts since they had their first official match at TLC in 2014. But that’s not all. This actually does a ton for The Miztourage. The Miz is great, and no one is doubting his place on the card right now. But Curtis Axel and Bo Dallas could come out of this build as Raw Tag Team Champions, which suits them well. Plus it’s a high profile program for both of them, which actually plays into the storyline reason the aligned themselves with The Miz to begin with. Plus it’s The Shield—likely the legit Shield, with gear, theme and crowd-pleasing entrance. That, and people will support Roman Reigns again. And while I don’t so much care about that, I know WWE does.

3. WWE is devaluing the 205 Live product by constantly saying that “Enzo was dumped there” & that “the other guys aren’t stars.”

Andrew Swift: FICTION – Truth in WWE’s product is increasingly rare, so hearing an honest assessment of 205 Live was remarkably refreshing. At this point there’s nothing that WWE could do to make the show seem less important–the whole idea behind the Cruiserweight Classic was providing an alternate, workrate-based product, but 205 Live from day one has been very much “WWE but just with only small guys.” Desiring to “shape” the cruiserweight show in WWE’s typical mold, while still claiming it as “The Most Exciting Hour in Television,” was incongruous from the start. As we’ll see below, WWE’s approach with Enzo on 205 Live is actually a step in the right direction. That being said, it’s not just 205 Live that’s lacking in stars. Whenever someone’s momentum seems to be taking off, WWE seems insistent on clipping their wings.

Greg DeMarco: FICTION – You can’t devalue something that already holds no value. There is no denying the talent sitting on the 205 Live roster. They actually have more active cruiserweights on the main roster than active women—crazy, huh? And that roster puts on great matches. But here’s the problem: this isn’t FloSlam. This isn’t a random Pivotshare account showing independent matches. This is the W-W-freaking-E, where things need to have a meaning a purpose. And reality check time folks…simply putting on great matches doesn’t cut it. In many cases, the matches don’t matter. As much as many of you would never want to admit it, Enzo Amore going to 205 Live is the best thing to happen to that show. That little annoying Certified Prick/Bonafide Douche (can’t teach it, either) just might save the purple brand after all. More people (casual fans, you know most of the viewing audience?) care about 205 Live today than they did a few weeks ago. Enzo is drawing more heat to the product than ever before. I know you don’t like him—you’re not supposed to like him. And don’t say you don’t like him because of how he’s booked or his backstage reputation. You’re not as smart as you think you are, and WWE is using how smart you think you are against you once again. On top of that, Enzo brings in more eyeballs than Neville did as champion, and Neville might be the only reason the show was even still around for Enzo to move to!

SWITCH!

4. Bringing Bayley back, only for her to be the one to take the pin at No Mercy, was poor booking.

Greg DeMarco: FICTION – This question is adorable. Probably because Bayley is adorable. AND ADORABLE DOESN’T SELL. My opinion on Bayley isn’t a secret, but I’ll summarize it for you: Bayley is a small stage act failing on a larger stage. I called it when she was in NXT, and it’s come true on the main roster. She can’t promo her way out of a brown paper bag, and she is bland in the ring. She’s great for the kids, but kids aren’t who is tuning into Raw—they’re usually in the live audience. In fact, I’d say that Bayley is a great house show act, and can have a long career that way. But on the main TV roster she’s a bit player at best, one who can pop the crowd with her occasional appearance and can work a good, short program with a strong heel. As for her appearance at No Mercy? Out of the five women in the match, she’d have been my #1 choice to eat the pin. She’s going nowhere, might as well let Alexa score the fall on her, because Alexa compared to Bayle, Alexa is a megastar.

Andrew Swift: FICTION – Bringing Bayley back in San Jose was the safest place possible, and having her come out as a fighter rather than the timid geek they booked her as over the summer did wonders. That she was pinned at No Mercy is fine–she needs to be pushed down and made to struggle. What they really need is to have her doing more backstage bits like the one with her and Sasha Banks last Monday, as she’s a dynamo in those sorts of segments. (As is Banks–her delivery of “It’s fine” was wildly effective at teasing tension between the two.)

5. Monday’s closing angle involving Enzo, Neville and the 205 roster was a great piece of business.

Greg DeMarco: FACT – 100% it was! I eluded to it in the question above, but Enzo Amore moving to 205 Live is the best thing to happen to that brand. Historically, very few people get to have faces and heels band together against them: the NWO, the Invasion, Triple H in his first full leadership role, brand vs. brand matches, and now Enzo Amore in 205 Live. That’s exclusive company Smacktalker Skywlaker has joined, and 205 Live is better because of it. They put Neville’s anti-hero turn in the main event position of Raw, and Enzo’s opening segment on 205 Live was every bit as good. In a two-night span they placed more focus and direction on 205 Live than ever before. Is it perfect? No. Does it solve the brand’s long-term issues? No. But it does fix the short-term issue of providing something to drive the brand, and if that short-term need hadn’t been met we may never have seen the long-term ones get a chance to be addressed. Vince McMahon is a genius, and what he’s doing with 205 Live right now just proves that even more.

Andrew Swift: FACT – It’s rare to see a heel get their comeuppance in such spectacular fashion, and even rarer to see such a thing happen during a double turn. Enzo is now set up going forward as the sleazeball who thinks he’s better than the rest of the division and will endlessly cheat and scam to keep the title. More importantly, it provides a bit of meta-restructuring for 205 Live, which is now almost positioned as a babyface brand being tainted by a rude and crude outsider. There’s zero guarantee it’ll work, but the angle is certainly worth a shot. There’s been some really good work done on 205 Live, but its weird time slot after SmackDown and segregating the cruiserweights from the rest of the Raw roster has mostly made the program feel irrelevant. Having a dickhead, brash heel use that to bash on the rest of the cruisers may actually help get more people on the purple brand’s side.

6. What is your excitement level for Paige’s WWE return?

Greg DeMarco: 10 out of 10 – I’ve always had a thing for Paige (those pics and videos didn’t make it go away, either). And having her return makes me a happy camper. She’s an amazingly talented performer. She got people into her character from day one. She’s believable in and out of the ring. She’s lived one hell of a lifetime since coming to the main roster, and I have a feeling she’s going to be better for it in the end. Let’s just please send her to Smackdown. Asuka is already headed to Raw, and is likely to flatten the women’s division there just like she did in NXT. Save Paige vs. Asuka for another time and let her get her groove back on with Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair, Natalya and the talented crew on Smackdown. But whatever you do…you do not…under any circumstances…bring Alberto Del Rio Patron Whatever Caras #2 Junior back. She doesn’t need him, WWE doesn’t need him, and we don’t need him.

Andrew Swift: 5 out of 10 – Paige carries a legitimate presence, which is always welcome. Adding depth, and talented depth at that, to WWE’s Women’s Divisions is always welcome. The addition of Paige and Asuka means that there should be at least three concurrent Raw Women’s storylines, each getting meaningful weekly time–but it remains to be seen whether that plays out. Maybe instead they’ll just go from Fatal Five-Ways to Six Pack Challenges. One worries about the reactions of certain sexist fans, but hopefully fellow audience members can help nip those idiots in the bud.