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411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Is Seth Rollins WWE’s Best In-Ring Performer in 2018?

July 15, 2018 | Posted by Larry Csonka
Seth Rollins’ Seth Rollins WWE Raw 21218

Welcome back to 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Jake Chambers & Greg DeMarco.

  • Questions were sent out Tuesday.
  • Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

    1. Seth Rollins has been WWE’s best in ring performer in 2018.

    Jake Chambers: FICTION – Seth Rollins is fine. He’s not Randy Savage in 1985, he’s not Bret Hart in 1995, he’s not John Cena in 2005… hell, he’s not even Seth Rollins 2015. He is a good wrestler having good matches in contrast is all the bland wrestling you have to sit through on WWE programming. I can guarantee you his best match wouldn’t even make any reasonable critics top 100 of the year in all of pro-wrestling, and whatever that match was (vs. The Miz, vs. Balor?) it wouldn’t even crack the Top 5 best matches under the WWE umbrella. In my opinion, to be consistently competent at the job your are being paid to do does not make you “the best”, especially with the tradition of excellent wrestlers who push the envelope that we’ve seen in the WWE over the decades, and the insane level of wrestling we’re seeing every where else in 2018. So for me then, you’d have to look at the wrestlers who don’t get to be in as many matches as Rollins, like Johnny Gargano, Pete Dunne, or Buddy Murphy, because they’re stretching what can be done in the ring under the WWE style whenever they get the chance. Seth Rollins is a good swimmer in a pool of mediocrity, but he’s still too plain to call “the best”.

    Greg DeMarco: FICTION – This is only fiction because AJ Styles exists. Seth is amazing. One of the best in the world. But what separates AJ Styles is the uniqueness of an AJ match. AJ Styles does things no one else does, and you can look to his most recent high profile match (Last Man Standing vs. Shinsuke Nakamura). Conversely, I see Seth do things that are amazing, but I feel like I’ve seen it all before from other wrestlers. Sometimes we’ve see the same move on the show already, done better by someone else, like Finn Balor’s Slingblade. That doesn’t mean that Rollins isn’t great—he’s one of the best. But I would put AJ Styles ahead of Seth Rollins for WWE in 2018.

    2. WWE has no incentive to care about fallings rating or diminishing fan interest due to their new TV deals.

    Jake Chambers: FICTION – Of course, my first instinct is FACT. The WWE have become so entrenched in the business of global cultural content production in the digital age that they are clearly beyond the outdated Nielsen ratings system. However, there are two issues I have with this statement that make it difficult for me to agree with it completely. Number One: “diminishing fan interest”. I think there is an anger among the base of super-fans about aspects of the WWE, sure, but the worldwide popularity of the WWE has to be at an all-time high. Just the dearth of podcasts, blogs, new sites, mainstream coverage, international TV and tours, social media, and growth of the pro-wrestling industry in general, are undeniably indicating a high level of interest in the brand of entertainment popularized by the WWE. Number Two: having “no incentive to care” doesn’t feel right, because obviously the WWE cares, they just happen to understand the subconscious of their fan-base better than those fans know themselves consciously. The WWE is giving fans what they want and by doing so have secured the immense financial power they were looking for. You don’t do this by accident, their recent successes have been the culmination of a very wise, money-making strategy that hinged precariously on caring about fan interest on a cunningly psychological, political and emotional level. If you are reading this right now, the WWE owns you, and will generate wealth off of you, whether you subscribe to their Network or live in a home with an old-fashioned TV ratings box.

    Greg DeMarco: FACT – Seriously, why are we still worried about ratings in 2018? While Dave Meltzer’s news isn’t always reliable, his opinion is spot on here—in 2018, WWE isn’t setting ratings or buy rates. WWE is selling a brand, and that’s what FOX and NBC bought. Plus, ratings are largely misinterpreted. You can’t look at ratings week over week, but in regards to the competition on that night (RAW and Smackdown are still consistently at or near the top of the list). Additionally, ratings are an estimate at best, and far more weight is given to them by internet wrestling fans than television executives. Especially when you are at WWE’s level, which is still one of the highest wrestling television products—52 weeks a year. Seriously, WWE could be # 1-2-3 for a Monday night, and fans would find a reason to complain. As for diminishing fan interest? Who are we measuring? Approximately 3-4% of the WWE audience discusses the product online, and for every tweet bashing Roman Reigns there are 10 loving him. You don’t see those tweets because you don’t follow those people. Because misery loves company. So no, WWE has zero incentive to care about what you think or your interpretation of the ratings, because you’re not even their target audience. Go watch New Japan.

    3. You want WWE to sign James Storm to a full time deal.

    Jake Chambers: FACT – Damn, WWE, just buy TNA already! I mean, if this means keeping lame-ass James Storm out of New Japan or Lucha Underground or, hell, even IMPACT, then cool! If there was ever a guy who fit into the “Mediocrity Era” of the WWE, it’s James Storm. So sign him up, let him wrestle in these generic, pointless 12-minute TV matches every week, and keep him out of the promotions I actually enjoy watching. Thanks.

    Greg DeMarco: FACT – It’s a yes for me, dawg. This question isn’t really fact or fiction, but opinion. I love James Storm. So of course I want WWE to sign him. I also want WWE to make Cesaro a world champion. I can’t see where he doesn’t offer them value. Yes, the roster is crowded, and that’s an argument in the fact or fiction world, but this question is opinion (sorry to keep going Eric Bischoff to Larry’s Conrad Thompson, but he wrote the question!). James Storm is insanely talented and gets the WWE “less is more” philosophy. He can contribute to NXT, the main roster, and even the performance center. It’s a win-win to me.

    SWITCH!

    4. WWE dropping Clash of Champions from the PPV schedule was a smart move.

    Greg DeMarco: FICTION – As an old school fan, I loved Clash Of The Champions. So this is fiction from that perspective. The current Clash of Champions model doesn’t work for me. For starters, it really didn’t work in December, as TLC has a habit of wrapping up some storylines and making room for the Royal Rumble. Plus, you really need to have every champion defending on the Clash Of Champions format, and well…Brock Lesnar. I’d love to see them rebrand it back to the old Clash Of The Champions, a main roster Takeover of sorts (less matches, more focused). It’s a tall order in the current environment, but it might be enticing to FOX.

    Jake Chambers: FICTION – Not sure why it would be a “smart move”. Personally, I would love more wrestling… if it was any good. When I was a kid, if you told me there’d be 5 or 6 hour WWE PPVs every 3-4 weeks, I’d think you were talking about a place called heaven. A “smart move” would be writing compelling TV shows, putting on consistently awesome matches and PPV events, giving us unique and interesting characters, having results of consequence and stakes, and championships with importance and prestige. If that happened, they could put on a PPV every week and we’d all be ecstatic. Eliminating one 7-hour PPV from the annual calendar, while continuing to produce 8 hours a week of garbage anyways, kind of doesn’t matter.

    5. What is your excitement level for Brock Lesnar’s next WWE match?

    Greg DeMarco: 10 out of 10 – I don’t care what your opinion of him is, he’s still BROCK LESNAR. I don’t love his matches, in all honesty. But the casual fanbase reacts to Brock Lesnar, and when he’s out there it’s a big fight like we don’t usually see out of anyone else. And from a business perspective, you can’t argue against it. So yeah, I’m 100% there for it when it happens.

    Jake Chambers: 5 out of 10 – I’m cutting it right down the middle here, since it really matters who the opponent is for me. If it’s a match against Reigns, Strowman, Joe, Styles, Kane, Undertaker, Rollins, Ambrose, Orton, Big Show, Goldberg, or HHH, then my excitement level is a straight up ZERO. On the other hand, if it’s Bryan, Nakamura, Balor, Miz, Sheamus, Cesaro, Rusev, Owens, Zayn, or even Cena, then I’m probably at a 10. While the more recent flavorless matches again Ambrose and Styles indicate it’ll be tougher than ever to recreate the magic of that Eddie Guerrero match from 2004, Brock’s late-stage matches with Cena and Punk do make you think with the right opponent he is capable of one final classic in his career. But it can’t be against one of these big men or tough guys or legends, and it can’t be someone who’s going to be complacent with Brock’s current style or easily manipulated by him and the WWE creative mindset. Likely, that means the only real option is Bryan, a guy who Brock would probably respect on an athletic and gamesmanship level, and who would have the charm to lean into Brock and get him exciting about pro-wrestling again. I also think Bryan could will the WWE into letting them have a match akin to his ferocious classics with the monstrous badass Takeshi Morishima. Wait, can we get Brock versus the newly un-retired Morishima somehow? If so, then are we allowed to say 11?

    6. What is your excitement level for the WWE Extreme Rules PPV?

    Greg DeMarco: 8 out of 10 – I know, I am usually a “10” guy when it comes to these things. I like the card, and I am excited about Rusev vs. AJ Styles. Seth Rollins and Dolph Ziggler are going to crush it. But the card is bloated thanks to a 6-man #1 contender match split into three singles matches, and another Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax match when their story came to close back at WrestleMania. The key for me is the organization of the card, which WWE nailed at Money In The Bank. Here’s hoping they nail this one, too.

    Jake Chambers: 1 out off 10 – I jumped into the bottomless pit of WWE fandom 35 years ago. For almost 30 years, I fell like Superman: chin up, fist-punched forward, speed winds flowing off my beaming face; it wasn’t falling, it was flying. The experience of plummeting in the darkness was sublime, there was an exhilarating blind sense of direction that engulfed my body and stimulated my mind. A Piper diatribe, a Hogan loss, Flair triumphant, Bret is the best, HBK is better, You’ll Never Forget the Name, Austin 3:16, Die Rocky Die, Foley is Good, The 3 Is, Y2J, Brock, Eddie, Chris, Edge, Christian, ‘taker, Kane, Show, Punk, You Can’t See Me, Yes, Yes, Yes! No. All of a sudden the sleek rocket blast of wind pushing me through the bottomless pit died. First a shoulder hit the damp, jagged, pit wall – chicka-bang, Brock is champ. Then my hip smashed into the other side – chicka-boom, Bryan retires. I reached out to try and grab hold of something, stop what had then become a bumping tumble rather than an aerodynamic joy. And I held on; the best I could do was hug the wall and wait for the wind to return. But then it become a vacuum, actively SUCKing me down against my will. Excitement Level ZERO, over and over, my head banging the sides of the tunnel with every skull rattling bad PPV. I keep trying to grab onto something; a twig or a rock could mean respite from the painful fall for just a few precious moments. And this month, my fingers tips are clawing down the side, bloody and raw, keeping me dangling, holding on at Excitement Level ONE, because of ONE thing, ONE match, ONE chance at greatness, ONE puff of wind that might restart the gale force of fandom. AJ Styles vs. Rusev. That’s right. This is the match that gives me a smidgen of hope there’s more here than just another rote re-do of the monotony that has forgotten me. The negative NINE laughs at my naïveté from the darkness, and pulls harder. But that ONE is all I need for now, and I’ll hold on until blood is squirting out of my fingernails like they’re Terry Funk’s EXTREME forehead. Because I remember what it was like to love the WWE – I will never forget – and one day I will fly again.