Ask 411 Wrestling: What’s The Most Successful PPV Of All Time?

Hello, and welcome to the only column hoping there’ll be a WWE Global Super Heavyweight Series later in the year so the author can be a part of it via losing a qualifying match to any of the half dozen other Super Heavyweights in Australia, Ask 411 Wrestling!

So Payback happened, and had some great wrestling, a scary moment, and fighting McMahons. Clearly one of those three is the sure fire way to success!

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Zeldas!

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Disfigurement In-Ring: Kurtis has one I didn’t know about.

It was said that Killer Kowalski bit off Yukon Eric’s ear in a match in the late 50’s. Yukon’s ears were extremely cauliflowered and I’ve heard it explained that part of his ear basically fell off during the match. Kowalski supposedly picked up the “Killer” nickname after the match.

The Trivia Crown

A god, a Duggan and a Cyclops trained me. I was a world champion until royalty stood in my way. I’ve wrestled at Starrcade and have wrestled in ECW and TNA, including PPV matches. I’ve teamed with gentlemen and with someone who’ve claimed to be a fish, and beat a horse at something. I did something a Guerrero has done before and someone close to Chris Jericho helped me. I was the first at winning something and the one with the longest tenure having that thing I won. Oh, and Harry Potter might not like me very much, but someone at Lucha Underground really does. Who am I?

DB had most of it, but I’ll use Maraviloso’s answer to make sure it’s all there.

A god (Karl Gotch, known in Japan as ‘god of wrestling’), a Duggan (Crusher Duggan, wrestling name used by Boris Malenko) and a Cyclops (gimmick used by Dean Malenko at Slamboree ’98) trained me. I was a world champion (CMLL World Heavyweight Champion) until royalty (Silver King) stood in my way. I’ve wrestled at Starrcade (1990) and have wrestled in ECW and TNA, including PPV matches (TNA Destination X 2006). I’ve teamed with gentlemen (Chris Adams) and with someone who’ve claimed to be a fish (Shark Boy), and beat a horse at something (I destroyed Chavo Guerrero’s wood horse, Pepe). I did something a Guerrero has done before and someone close to Chris Jericho helped me (I stole a backyard wrestling championship with Jericho’s former manager, Ralphus). I was the first at winning something and the one with the longest tenure having that thing I won (WCW Hardcore Title). Oh, and Harry Potter might not like me very much (I was known as Black Magic), but someone at Lucha Underground really does (I’m a good friend of Vampiro and I’m the godfather of Vampiro’s daughter). Who am I?

NORMAN SMILEY

And then use his other question for this week’s one.

I was a tag team match televised on a wrestling program that no longer exists in very important year for wrestling, before what really made that year relevant. A wrestling stable was part of the match. Two men who were in opposite corners later joined in another wrestling stable and feuded with the stable one of the members was a part of. The tag team partner of one of them also joined another stable soon thereafter and feuded with his old stable and that new stable. “The Undertaker” killed one of them. . . in a movie. Coincidentally, that someone used a finisher The Undertaker had used before. Someone at ringside joined a group in TNA and one of them used a flag in his gear. The heel team won the match and the person who got the pin and the one who was pinned in the match are the only one wrestling full time right now. The match began after a “musical performance.” What am I?

Getting Down To All The Business

We start with hypothetical thinking from P from the Q.

I have a bit of a theorical/hypothetical question. Let’s say we live in a parallel universe where we have a completely different wrestling history and promotoers and wrestlers and Vince McMahon does not exist at all in this universe, but somehow the pop culture and zeitgeist are the same throught history. Could we imagine a wrestling promotion becoming as mainstream as WWE but with a completely different business model, or is the Vince McMahon vision “variety show/guest celebrities/superhero babyfaces/over-the-top characters” the most likely (or only) pathway imaginable to long-term mainstream/monopoly/corporate status?

So we’re saying there’s no Vince McMahon, no Hulk Hogan, no Ric Flair, but there’s a Vic O’Reilly (who’s a quiet, modest fellow) and a Thor Thompson and a Rol Knack? Fair enough, so what happens?

It’s tempting to say that wrestling is highly dependant on the people involved since so much of the history of wrestling is indelibly tied up in specific people and how they interact. Vince McMahon being the guy to push and expand, Ted Turner having a soft spot for ‘rassling, the complicated relationship between Vince, Bret and Shawn that led to the Screwjob, Jeff Jarrett having a promoter father and ‘screwing’ over Vince… Wrestling history is shaped in part by pop-culture and trends, but with so much of it dependant on very specific people and moments, surely removing those people will change everything?

And it sort of is, because while Vince found a winning formula and won big in the new world, the fact is that cable was still coming, followed by PPV, and it was going to change everything. Like with the advent of television, wrestling was always going to have a sudden boost with the expansion and solidification of cable TV. It’s just that Vince was the guy to grab hold of pop culture and shake it around a bit, while one billionaire kept Vince’s main competition afloat because why not?

So, without Vince, and without Turner, what happens? I don’t see there being any monopoly on wrestling, at least in terms of one company being as ubiquitous as WWE. Vince pushed his vision hard and for a long time, and it eventually won out, but without him, wrestling becomes a genre, like local sports or sitcoms, in that there’s a few big players, and a bunch of smaller ones, all of which have some sort of cable presence, or at least there’s a few different products out there, they mainly stick to their regions as they are all different tastes, there’s the more serious Southern wrestling, the flashy East Coast stuff, the technical Canadian stuff, etcetc. One promotion could and would catch fire and get popular, then ride out that wave and another company would become more popular.

The NWA… Without Vince, but with wrestling becoming a genre as opposed to a sole product, I don’t see that lasting, both from inside (power struggles would abound if there was no threat from Vince) and from outside (The NWA was, to be frank, monopolistic to the extreme), and thus there’s further fragmentation.

So yeah, I don’t think the WWF style is the only style that could work as a global presence as such, WCW was different and that worked fine (sorta), and wrestling was almost certainly going to get some pop culture traction, but without Vince, without Turner? A bunch more wrestlers have jobs since there’s a hell of a lot more ‘big league’ companies, each with a different audience, a different flavor. Some wrestlers make it big and get into pop culture generally, but there’s no one style that dominates, wrestling overall, hopefully.

I’d certainly prefer that to here. Nothing against Vince and the WWE, but more wrestlers with jobs and more people watching overall is a good thing.

Speaking of wrestlers losing their jobs, Rob?

When watching some of the Monday Night War documentaries that came out on DVD and even in some of the new Network episodes focusing on the subject, the sale of WCW to the WWF at the time sounds like it almost came out of left field at the time. I remember watching that Raw/Nitro and being surprised myself. But I wanted to know, was the acquisition of WCW’s assets by the WWF something that the IWC at the time knew about or made a big deal of before the news broke?

Not really, as there was maybe 3 days between “Jamie Kellner cancels WCW TV” and “Vince Buys WCW”. It was a hell of a few days, from what I remember of it, with rumors and ideas and stories being traded back and forth across those few hours, I’m sure people suggested the WWF buying it, and certainly afterwards WWF mentioned they’d been in discussions for around ‘three weeks’ in a conference call on the day of the sale, with WWF coming back in after WCW programming got cancelled, which was a deal killer prior to that point since WWF had an exclusivity deal with Viacom. After the TV deals were cancelled, WWF was back on the table, and ended up buying the company for $2.5 Million.

Now, that timing, of “Week before March 19: WWF needs WCW TV cancelled to buy WCW, March 19: WCW TV cancelled, March 20: Fusient pulls out, March 21-23: WWF buys WCW”, has led to many people crying conspiracy, and I can see the argument. Especially given the bigger deals on the table.

But to play devil’s advocate, if you assume that Kellner cancelled WCW TV independently (which isn’t that big a stretch given his track record) then that explains Fusient pulling out and taking their deal with them, obviously. And while WWF’s offer was stupidly low, yes, it was almost certainly paid in cash up front, to a company that was active and arguably was in the best shape to utilize the damn thing. Savage doing wrap arounds for international TV is all well and good, but if you’re trying to do what’s best for the company of WCW, wouldn’t you sell to someone who has TV time and who is arguably best suited to use the company?

Not a compelling argument compared to the conspiracy theory, yes, but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

But as far as the IWC was concerned, that three or four days were a whirlwind of activity and rumors. I’m sure the notion of WWF being in talks was floated, I remember reading that, but it wasn’t in any way general knowledge or what have you until the day it got announced.

Unless someone with a better memory than me cares to disagree below.

Speaking of WWF and WCW, Papa Shango Don’t Like You asks about flip-flopers. And not automatically Sid, either.

This question occurred to me during one of my network binges, I happened upon the Barbarian in pre Powers of Pain days and it struck my how many times he has crossed back and forth between Atlanta and New York. My question is Who is the guy / gal who has jumped between the two companies the most (separate stints). My guess is its not the Barbarian than maybe Dustin Rhodes.

Well then, let’s hit the likely candidates. I’m not including retirements and stints in third part companies, this isn’t so much about direct jumps as it is reigns between the two (who I’ve simplified a little as well, NWA/WCW wise)

British Bulldog: WWF (85-88, 90-92) to WCW (93) to WWF (94-97) to WCW (98) to WWF (99-00) for 4 ‘jumps’

Dustin Rhodes: WCW (88-89) to WWF (90-91) to WCW (91-95) to WWF (95-99) to WCW (99-01) to WWF (01-03 etc) for 5 ‘jumps’

Jeff Jarrett: WWF (93-96) to WCW (96-97) to WWF (97-99) to WCW (99-01) for 3 ‘jumps’

Lex Luger: WCW (87-92) to WWF (93-95) to WCW (95-01) for 2 ‘jumps’

Scott Steiner: WCW (88-92) to WWF (92-94) to WCW (96-01) to WWF (02-04) for 3 ‘jumps’

Sid: WCW (87-89) to WWF (91-92) to WCW (93) to WWF (95-97) to (WCW 99-01) for 4 ‘jumps’

Terry Taylor: WWF (88-90) to WCW (90-92) to WWF (92-93) to WCW (94, 95-98) to WWF (98-99) to WCW (99-01) for 5 ‘jumps’

The Barbarian: WCW (>88) to WWF (88-92) to WCW (92) to WWF (94-95) to WCW (95-00) got 4 ‘jumps’

Vader: WCW (90-95) to WWF (96-98) for 1 ‘jump’

Anyone out there think of someone better than 5, or another member of the 5 club? Else I’ll split the title and give it to Goldust and Terry Taylor…

Speaking of time spent in WWF, Kev asks about debut to title shot.

Long time reader.. First time asker etc. etc.

Is AJ Styles the quickest wrestler to go from WWE debut to having a WWE champion shot in only 3 months?

Cheers dude. Keep up the good work 🙂

Nope, given that Pedro Morales debuted in the WWWF on November 21st, 1970 and won the WWWF Title on Feburary 8th, 1971 for a 2 month 18 day gap, Flair’s gap was around 3 months too.

Not saying they are the shortest, just that AJ’s isn’t the shortest by any means. I’m sure someone must have come in and got a shot early on during Russo…

Speaking of the title, Nelson wants to discuss major title wins and small packages, so fine, let’s talk about Seth Rollins that move.

1. My favorite match of all time, Steamboat/Savage at WM3 ended not only with a roll up, but a roll up after a pin attempt where Savage had Steamboat down for the count, but there was no ref. I get the logic for this finish if the heel is going over, but don’t understand it in this scenario. Especially given the story arc that culminated with this match, why was the finish booked this way? It seems to make Steamboat appear weak, or lucky. Was it to protect Savage because they already envisioned him as a mega face?

Make sure you have the WWE Network first before watching that.

Anyway, the thinking was to establish that Savage, while being good (thus keeping him strong for future programs) was greedy and got his comeuppance for trying to reinjure the plucky babyface Steamboat, who just wouldn’t stay down and hung in there and won the day because of it.

See, WWE used to be able to book matches to finish and pay off stories while keep both people strong, rather than just book matches leading to more matches for no real point. Steamboat wasn’t Hogan, and so wasn’t going to get a strong win, he was going to get the plucky underdog win since that was how he wrestled. And Savage had to be kept strong for both Savage/Steamboat rematches afterwards and then for future programs, they knew even then he was good, maybe not world title good as such, but certainly good enough to be a main eventer.

There’s a place for the roll up finish, when your heel is cocky/cheating and your babyface is plucky. Speaking of…

2. Sting/Flair at GAB. Again, given the story arc, and seemingly passing the torch to the new (pun intended) “franchise”, why book this title change with a small package? Why not make the new, young, face champ look strong by definitively beating Flair? Like via scorpion death lock, or a big rally culminating in two or three stinger splashes?

Again, have the Network before watching that.

As for this one, again it’s a matter of the babyface involved, and the audience. The notion that a babyface champion needs to be an all-conquering badass unstoppable monster is newish, and certainly wasn’t as firmly established at the time. A guy who looked like Sting, or Steamboat, or Daniel Bryan or whoever, standard wrestling booking says you book them as a plucky babyface who needs the fans support. Especially in the NWA/WCW, as they were an audience who liked faces to be like that. Plus you change a title via small package, suddenly every small package means that much more in the future.

So yeah, just booking logic is you have the small hero outsmart the cocky heel, and a small package is that.

3. Fantasy book, please. Select a significant title reign from the last 35 years and rebook it with the champion originally winning the title via small package, or some sort of fluke. It has to be a title change that doesn’t already have a “fluky” nature to it, so no MITB cash ins please. You define “significant”. My example would be Goldberg-Hogan. If Goldberg wins the title with a school boy roll up, the crowd still pops and celebrates, but it doesn’t establish Goldberg as the conquering hero like SPEAR-JACKHAMMER-BALLGAME did. If anything, it may make Goldberg more intriguing because we aren’t sure he’d win a rematch, but more likely makes him look weak. Of course they weren’t going for “intriguing” and this would totally not fit the character to begin with, but you get my point.

I get what you’re saying, but Goldberg is an example of a guy who should be booked as an all-conquering badass unstoppable monster.

Anyway, if I was able to just have a roll up occur in any title match, it’d be Backlund/Diesel so we don’t get the summer of Diesel as Backlund keeps the belt until dropping it to Michaels at WM, but given your restrictions…

I’m tempted to say the Halftime Heat title change, just to avoid the Bug Eyed Rock shot, but I’ll commit some blasphemy and go with Austin’s win at Wrestlemania X7, so that the heel turn doesn’t happen. At the time, I would have done the same thing they did, but with the benefit of hindsight, better options are either just sticking with Austin as a face or, best of both worlds, Austin has to resort to a fluke roll up to win the title and thus is booked to be weak in the months afterwards, he’s lost a step since coming back, he isn’t the same Rattlesnake, vulture are circling… And then suddenly the Alliance comes along and offers him a place as their head. Austin turns heel at InVasion and then builds to the Winner Take All Austin/Rock 3 at Wrestlemania X8, title V title.

What about you, dear readers?

Speaking of Austin, gdc03120 asks about him and Owen, but thankfully not the piledriver.

a.) Between late 1998 and early 1999, Austin only appeared on television/ring/backstage segments, but not in actual matches between Rock Bottom (vs. the Undertaker) and the Royal Rumble match. Was there any behind-the-scenes reason to his not wrestling (heal his neck or other injuries), or was it more to allow other storylines to develop (such as between Foley/Rock)?

I believe it was neck related, yes. I was unable to find any reports of a specific injury, but I’m fairly sure he took the time off to heal up his neck a bit, before the big run in the new year on the Road to Wrestlemania. Happy to be corrected if someone knows something.

b.) Plans reported that Owen Hart/Blue Blazer was scheduled to win the Intercontinental Title from the Godfather at Over the Edge 1999. Had Owen not tragically passed away that evening, what were the short and long-term booking plans for him as his character(s)? Word was the Blazer gimmick was punishment for not going along with a storyline where Debra would turn on Jarrett and go with Hart, because Hart didn’t want to disrespect Martha and his own kids, but was there any future booking plans in the words beyond that evening?

I remember Foley saying that a big babyface run was coming up for Owen in his second book, but I’m not sure if that was the plan or if Foley was just saying what he thought would happen.

Anyway, the persistent rumor is that Owen was set to get the ‘The Game’ gimmick and get a strong push out of that, so presumably after winning and then losing the IC title he’d ‘snap’ and go serious and cut the promo HHH did to start The Game. Assuming, of course, that rumor has any basis in reality.

But given Russo was head writer at the time, I’m not entirely sure they knew what they had planned for Owen, hell they probably didn’t have much planned for anyone, given how often gimmicks and characters would switch up with no notice.

So yeah, sorry, I got nothing.

Speaking of nothing, Shaun?

Are there any wrestling related talk shows shown on television in America or any other country? We have wrestletalk TV here in the UK if you have heard of it?

Of course I’ve heard of it! I was on it! Maffew was on it!

There’s obviously lots and lots and LOTS of people who want to talk at you about wrestling on YouTube and on podcasts, and a few people who have podcasts then have radio shows, but to my knowledge, WrestleTalk TV is fairly unique. But I presume somewhere out there on Local Access there’s a wrestling talk show as well? Readers? Bueller? Bueller?

Speaking of talking about nothing, Connor?

Is the rumor true that Vader was supposed to win the wwf title from Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 1996? only for Shawn to throw a tantrum and have the match changed to 3 separate finishes

Yes, Vader was going to win the title. Yes, Shawn threw a tantrum. But there’s not an A to B to C there directly, that’s provable.

The original plans for the WWF title in 96 were, supposedly, for Vader to beat Shawn at Summerslam for the title, lose it to Bret, then win it back from Bret, then lose it back to Shawn at the Royal Rumble 97, then do HBK/Bret 2: Iron Harderer at Wrestlemania for all the moneys. Using Vader as the go between to establish that Bret and Shawn were on equal footing and all that. But then Vader/HBK was done on the house show loop leading up to the PPV and it didn’t do too well, according to some reports, or it led a lot of people to think Vader had no chance according to Vader, or, as the accepted ‘truth’ is, Shawn decided he didn’t want to job to Vader because he didn’t like Vader.

Whatever the case (It was C), they then changed the match booking to where Vader won twice without winning the belt then ends up losing so there’s some dignity in the loss and it sets up a future rematch that never took place. So one up for Payback, I guess.

Speaking of PPV, Rahil?

What are the highest and lowest PPV events in terms of buys?

The highest buyrate in professional wrestling history if WrestleMania 28, which had 1,217,000 buys.

The lowest is harder to determine, as the likely candidates, the TNA One Night Onlys and such, the numbers aren’t given out to the public. The lowest WWE one ever so far is, to my knowledge, TLC 2014, at 39,000 buys total. Prior to the introduction of the WWE Network, WWE’s worst number was 90K for ECW December To Dismember, a result that led to Heyman being fired and the ECW brand on the outs with the company. Nowdays 90K would be better than pretty much any WWE B PPV you could name.

But it’d probably be a TNA ONO that sold to Larry, three TNA diehards and a couple XWT seeders only.

And on that note, I’ll go hide from the angry mob of TNA fans, and I’ll see you all next week!