Jim Ross on Randy Orton’s Babyface Turn in 2004, Why It Didn’t Work, Vince Not Thinking Orton Was Ready

– On the latest Grilling JR, Jim Ross looked back on Randy Orton’s babyface turn in mid-late 2004 and why it ultimately fell flat. Orton won the World Heavyweight Championship from Chris Benoit at SummerSlam that year to become the youngest world champion in WWE history. That run would be short-lived though, as he was quickly kicked out of Evolution and turned babyface. He feuded with the stable over the title and lost the title to Triple H at Unforgiven 2004.

Highlights from the discussion, and the full podcast, are below:

On if Orton worked as a babyface when Evolution turned on him: “I thought it became a personal issue after Orton stole the spotlight from his teammates, Batista, Flair and Triple H. You know, Randy was a designated — he was the shining star. The shining young star. I thought that making Randy a babyface was not the most judicious thing that could have been done. Of course, the argument can easily be made because wrestling is so subjective — and casting, i.e. booking, is so subjective — that he would have been just fine having a strong personal issue with Triple H over the title. Over the championship, the #1 title in the whole business at that point in time. So I thought that that was a little bit of a kneejerk [decision].”
On who made the decision: “That was Vince’s call. And you don’t know where it’s going long-term, but for Randy to be turned babyface, a major change, in August. And then in September, his run is over as a champion, seemed to me a little bit abrupt. And of course as history plays it out, I know what Randy is now. He’s a 13, 14-time, whatever — he’s a multiple-time champion. He’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer without a doubt. And he’s one of the guys he signed in my most outstanding signing class ever. And I am partial and biased in that matter. But I thought the change, the turn, was a little bit quick. And then I thought taking the title off of him was a little premature as well. He didn’t get a chance to establish himself either as a babyface or as the champion in the way it was booked.”

On how long the Evolution split was in the works: “I think that they just, the powers that be felt that the timing was right. I don’t know that there’d been a long-term plan. That’s one of the issues that has bit WWE in the ass over the years, is the lack of long-term planning. When I first got there in ’93, Vince was all about long-term planning and planning it WrestleMania to WrestleMania. It made the whole process better for creative, the in-house people, the promoters, everybody when you’ve got a long-term plan. There’s some stability there, and you’re not guessing. He ain’t gonna change things endlessly, and I think that became a big issue over the years. So long-term planning was not a strong suit at that point in time. So I think that’s an issue that has to be addressed with any company.”

On Vince not being behind Orton as champion: “But Randy was gonna be such a star, I never thought — here’s the thing. Two things, I guess. One is, the most important thing is, I’m not sure, and I may be wrong here. But I’m not sure that Vince at that point in time had confidence that Randy was gonna be a great long-term champion. He wasn’t sold on the idea. He wasn’t sold on — I don’t know if he trusted Randy, or still had some doubts because of his dishonorable discharge, which was an issue getting him hired. But you know, we prevailed and it worked out pretty well for Randy, and the WWE, and the fans. So I think that’s an issue there.”

On Orton not being trusted by the fans as a babyface: The other point was, the fans did not totally trust Randy. That viper thing, those eyes of his, that body English, his smile, his facials did not lend to, in that era — 2004 folks, it’s 15 years ago — to a trusted babyface. ‘We can depend on this guy. He’ll be our Hogan.’ It was never that way, Randy was an individual and can we trust him? And that was kind of a shoot deal, can we trust him. Administration thinks, ‘Can we trust him with this kind of responsibility?’ Because there’s a huge responsibility when you’re the champion. You’re closing mot of the shows, you’re booked more often than anybody else as a rule. It’s a tough job for some people. So I think there’s a lot of — there’s almost a worked shoot here. The fans didn’t trust Randy wholehaertedly, and Randy knew that. He felt it. But I think also VInce was not overly sold that Randy was still gonna be the guy. His maturity level in the business would make him that guy, but it wasn’t time yet.”

If you use any of the quotes in this article, please credit Grilling JR with a h/t to 411mania.com for the transcription.