wrestling / Columns

Truths & Lies: Breaking Down The CM Punk Interview

December 3, 2014 | Posted by Justin Watry

Earlier this year, in late January, I wrote a few columns on CM Punk leaving WWE.

My initial column was one of my most read/clicked EVER! On top of that, three different websites contacted me within a week wanting me to come on board. Plus, my Twitter follower count spiked (@JustinWatry) about as much as is humanly possible for somebody in my position. Long story short, wrestling fans were interested in the story back in January 2014. Since then, I wrote a few followup columns on the subject but have stayed out of it for the most part in recent months. CM Punk left, he is not coming back, and life has moved on nearly a year later. Nothing to say.

Well, so much for that! In a brilliant move, Colt Cabana, CM Punk, or whoever put this all together picked the Thanksgiving holiday to finally drop the tell all Art of Wrestling podcast heard around the world. Brilliant move on a guaranteed slow news day to release this thing. Brilliant. Since I assume Colt does not need me to plug/promote it, all of you already know where to find the interview and probably have done so by now. Before getting to my “Truths & Lies” column dissecting the new interview, I want to make a few points clear.

1. This column is just my opinion. Repeat, this is just my opinion. It always has been. I am not here to break factual news (although I have a few times in the past). I am just here to ramble on about professional wrestling with my own personal feelings on the issue at hand. All my opinion.

2. I do not believe CM Punk is a fan of mine because through the years, I have been labeled a “CM Punk hater.” Somehow, that label was given to me and has stuck. I hate to break it to you all, but that is NOT true in any sense. I have ALWAYS given him props when it was deserved. In 2013, CM Punk was in MY Feud of the Year, Match of the Year, and was involved with my Promo of the Year. Not to mention, he was my fourth ranked WWE Superstar of the Year in 2013. Not a “CM Punk hater” at all.

3. There are three sides to every story. This side, that side, and the truth somewhere in between. It needs to be stressed, but this is just the CM Punk side of the story. We may never know the WWE side of the story, and then of course – the truth is somewhere in between. Please keep that in mind.

Got it? Okay, bring on the comedy…

Note: I will try to tackle everything in chronological order, as they came up in the podcast.

TRUTH: Colt Cabana won me over as a podcast host within minutes.

I have never listened to the Art of Wrestling podcast. Never once. Thus, I had no idea what to expect from Colt Cabana, other than he was the best friend of CM Punk. Well, my skepticism was over within the first few minutes. When Colt started talking about being against illegal streams, bootleg merchandise, and taking money away from wrestlers’ pockets, he won me over. I have been discussing those topics for YEARS now, so it was refreshing to hear that right out of the gate. Off to a very good start…

…that unfortunately halted a few minutes later.

LIE: Colt Cabana and CM Punk did this for “free.”

The two then started discussing how the interview came about.

CM Punk did not want to do a shoot style interview or get paid for this story. He did not want to appear on other podcasts because they may have just wanted hits/clicks or were pushing an agenda. This was also brought up discussing Chris Jericho not hearing back from him later on in the interview. Sadly, this rang hollow because Colt Cabana is no doubt going to make a pretty penny off this huge exclusive. Whether from the massive amount of downloads, added exposure on his website, more t-shirt sales, etc. Punk would not do other podcasts but would do it for his best friend. Oh, and CM Punk apparently has some new merchandise coming out soon. Nice timing. What a coincidence, huh? Not one bit.

Yeah, Punk felt safe and comfortable talking with his buddy. No hidden agendas. No backstabbing. No funny business. Nobody to truly question him too hard. Just friends talking on air. Obviously, we all would prefer that scenario as well. At the same time, I did not like the veiled shots at other podcasts/shoot interviews when make no mistake folks, Colt and Punk will benefit from this in a monetary fashion as well.

TRUTH: CM Punk said money is not everything…then constantly talked about money.

I like money. You like money. We all like money. Why hide from it? CM Punk repeatedly said it was NOT about the money, yet I counted at least five times where he told stories of yelling at Triple H/Vince McMahon for more money, royalty checks, and/or WWE Network payoffs (more on that later). Again, we all like money, so what is the problem? If it is about the money, then just say it. I will proudly say it, as will most others. You want to get paid as much as possible. Just admit it. No shame in that.

LIE: Colt Cabana was terribly one sided for CM Punk.

Not at all. To praise Colt some more, I liked that he played devil’s advocate and did look at the other side of the coin. He was not just there to root on his buddy and talk about how horrible WWE was. Remember, I have never heard his podcast before, so maybe he does in others? I have no idea. For this two hour interview though, he played it (kind of) down the middle and did not just go in one direction. I wish I could say the same for Punk.

TRUTH: This was the obligatory bitter ex-WWE Superstar rantfest.

Again, to quote CM Punk himself, he repeatedly said he did not want to come across as being bitter and just bashing WWE non-stop during the interview. Well, that is exactly what it turned into. Things were fairly smooth for the first fifteen minutes. Then it slowly broke down into one thing after another. I think he praised The Shield, Daniel Bryan, and Kane. The rest was either complaints, grievances, and/or problems with management. Not one thank you to WWE. Not one positive feud/match memory outside of his clash with The Undertaker at WrestleMania 29. Not appreciative story. I know Punk had A LOT to get off his chest, but despite the many claims to the contrary, this did indeed feel like yet another ‘bitter ex-WWE Superstar bashing the company’ interview.

If that is your thing, then cool. Have fun! It is not my cup of tea though and exactly why I tend to avoid them.

To be fair, Punk obviously wanted to say a lot, so I hope the followup next week is more positive and upbeat (yes, I will probably listen next week as well). I will be pretty disappointed if this two-parter ends up being just the usual “HHH and Vince are mean poopy heads, I was screwed!” stuff.

LIE: The original pipebomb promo from CM Punk brought new eyeballs to WWE.

The episode of WWE RAW following the Las Vegas pipebomb promo from CM Punk drew a scary low 2.4 television rating. That was on the 4th of July, so I can forgive that. However, subsequent episodes of Raw and Smackdown barely moved from the previous weeks. Then when it came time for Money in the Bank 2011, the pay-per-view buy rate was…in the exact same range as others in 2011. A run of the mill, stale MITB PPV card for 2012 a year later drew just as much. Punk and Colt talked about how mainstream wrestling got because of the big promo in the summer of 2011. That is overrating things a bit.

I think fans tend to go overboard in discussing just how important this moment was. Outside of the initial shock and awe that night, the feud with John Cena (and Vince/HHH) came and went, and that was it.

Yes, GQ, ESPN and other outlets did grasp onto CM Punk after that. Yes, his stock did rise incredibly. Yes, all of those things are true. However, inside the wrestling bubble, it was business as usual to the bottom line. Ratings did not suddenly sky rocket. Live event attendance did not suddenly sky rocket. PPV buys did not suddenly sky rocket. Mainstream? Where? When? Unless I missed it…

TRUTH: Boxing is not MMA.

The discussion then turned to how CM Punk could not walk Chael Sonnen to the octagon for a UFC fight, while Triple H could walk Floyd Mayweather to the ring for his fight. Two things:

1. Boxing is not MMA. Right away, that is the difference here. Vince has clearly been leery of MMA/UFC and its barbaric nature. We have heard that before and like it or not, that is still the perception from some on the sport. Boxing is the sweet science to them, while mixed martial arts is some rotten blood sport. Right or wrong, boxing is not MMA. Comparing apples to oranges here.

2. Floyd Mayweather has had a good working relationship with WWE. He is friends with Triple H and likely had talked to him about the ring introduction weeks/months in advance. Chael Sonnen? Well, not that Money May is perfect by any means (he is not!), well Chael is Chael. Not sure I even need to explain this. Again, Floyd has had his own troubles to deal with obviously, but I certainly can see why Vince/WWE would not want CM Punk to be seen with Chael Sonnen at a UFC event. I get it.

TRUTH: CM Punk said WWE was a pitstop in his life.

Yeah, that is true tehincally. However, much to his chagrin, he will forever be known as “CM Punk, WWE Superstar.” Or former WWE Superstar. He talked about having all these television and movie offers. Likely due to his WWE fame, and I saw him on Talking Dead, and now he is writing a comic book. Those two million plus Twitter followers are from his time in WWE, nowhere else. Sorry, but that is the truth. Call it a pitstop all you want. Go ahead. Sure was a very lucrative and extravagant pitstop that made yourself a household name and allowed you to enjoy this early retirement.

LIE: I believe the online report about Triple H and Vince McMahon’s reaction to this podcast.

Quick tangent before I forget: The story posted about HHH and Vince reacting to this podcast is beyond ridiculous. First, I doubt Vince even knows what a podcast is. I am sure Stone Cold Steve Austin will be trying to explain it to him on Monday for hours. Secondly and most importantly, this was during Thanksgiving! The Thanksgiving holiday! I am supposed to believe the McMahon family is sitting around the dinner table eating turkey while listening to a Colt Cabana podcast. Riiiight. Then voicing their apparent displeasure to a “source” who then leaks it?!?! REALLY? During the Thanksgiving holiday? I am supposed to believe that. Not a chance. Sorry folks, just more of the same ‘guessing = news’ posts…but by all means, please, keep lapping it up with a spoon.

Now back to my podcast thoughts…

TRUTH: I agree with CM Punk on the WWE Network pay issue.

Breaking news: I agree with CM Punk! Stop the presses! I agree with him questioning the PPV payouts with the WWE Network. I wrote about that in January, before the entire launch. It was one of my main concerns – how would the talent be paid going forward? Those PPV bonus checks can be very big at times and they just what? Go away. Get trimmed down dramatically for a new pay system? What? I am with Punk: Vince McMahon needed to address the roster and let everybody know. To just leave them hanging is not the right thing to do. Just give an answer, one way or another. Punk name dropped Randy Orton as another who wanted to know the deal; there were reports of another “Big” long-time veteran who also voiced his opinion. I can see where the new guys/younger talent may have wanted to keep quiet and not rock the boat. For the top main eventers, yeah, they should have been given an answer right away.

LIE: I am going to discuss all the health/doctor related stories in depth.

I will take a pass here. The doctors working with WWE are well respected and known names in their field, so it is far from my place to discredit them in any way. On the flip side, CM Punk was clearly looking to be in quite a bit of pain in late 2013 and was working hurt. It was easy to see. Therefore, the WWE statement to Yahoo Sports will do for now.

TRUTH: Colt Cabana mentioned the obvious, and I am glad he did.

Another piece of praise to Colt Cabana.

It was at this point, Colt Cabana asked CM Punk the obvious and what I had been thinking throughout the entire interview. Not a direct quote here, but Colt pretty much asked Punk who was discussing all of his battles with management: “Maybe you were just an a**hole?” Seriously, Punk was a two-time Money in the Bank contract winner, multi-time World Champion, multi-time WWE Champion, held the top prize for well over a year, feuded with The Wyatts, The Shield, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker, Triple H, John Cena, and The Rock, yet it still was not good enough. Unbelievable.

LIE: You can call somebody “steroids guy” without proof.

Of all the stories and all the controversial statements, this was probably the one that did not sit well with me the most.

You can not publicly call somebody a “steroids guy” without proof. People covering sports get fined, suspended, and/or fired if they make an accusation like that about any athlete. Just in poor form, and you could almost hear Colt Cabana jumping in to try and tell CM Punk NOT to bash the wrestler in question here. It is about as slanderous as it gets and really does open up a can of worms. I am not sure CM Punk wants to go down that road with him having many friends in the wrestling business. You sure you want to start calling somebody “steroids guy?” You sure about that? Just do not do it.

TRUTH: The WrestleMania 29 main event should have been John Cena vs. The Rock II for the WWE Championship

That was the end game. At no point during the year long WWE Title run from CM Punk did I think otherwise. My gut instinct also tells me Punk knew that WWE planned to go with John Cena vs. The Rock Part 2 at WrestleMania 29. He had to have known. It was crystal clear. To make a comparison, that would be like Mick Foley thinking he was bring positioned for the WrestleMania 15 main event. No, it was obvious that Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock was the goal. Not a three way. Same with 2013. Cena taking on Rocky for the title was set in stone the moment WrestleMania 28 went off the air a year earlier. This was never Punk’s main event position to have.

I know it has to suck for Punk not to get a WM main event slot, but come on – he had to have known Cena/Rock II was the plan.

LIE: CM Punk should have defeated Brock Lesnar at Summerslam 2013.

This is tough because you can not have it both ways.

When Brock Lesnar loses, fans whine and cry about WWE ruining him.

When Brock Lesnar wins, fans whine and cry about a part-timer winning.

Which is it? I am not going to dive into this portion of the interview because truthfully, there was not much there besides the usual “Why have a part-time beat a full-timer?” debate. I am leaving it to all of you – which is it? Should Brock be a monster and destory everyone OR should Brock be brought in and then lose?

TRUTH AND LIE: WrestleMania sells WrestleMania, not The Rock.

That was what CM Punk was trying to say, that WrestleMania sells itself because of its brand name, and I DO agree! I do agree with him. Viewers are going to purchase that one pay-per-view every year and nothing else. Thousands and thousands of tickets sell before a single match is even announced for Mania. Thus, I am with Punk – WM sells itself, not the wrestlers.

Where I disagree with him is everything else in between. Tell me which WrestleMania would do better: Sting, The Undertaker, John Cena, Triple H, Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, The Shield, Randy Orton, and a major celebrity appearing in headline matches OR Zack Ryder, Justin Gabriel, Heath Slater, and Fandango in headline matches? Yeah, exactly…so yes, Mania does sell itself. However, you obviously need the biggest and best names to be featured. Compare the WM buy rates a few years before The Rock came back to the WM buy rates from 2011-2013 with The Rock involved in the main event scene. It does matter who is in the main event. Ridiculous to claim otherwise.

LIE: I understood the story of CM Punk not wanting to take a urine test.

I did not get this. CM Punk did not want to take a urine test because of changes made to the policy? Huh, is that right? Suddenly, that was a big sticking point for him. I must have missed something here. Anyone want to explain this?

TRUTH: CM Punk left WWE the night after Royal Rumble 2014.

“F*** off!” “I left.” “I’m outta here.” “I walked.”

Those are CM Punk’s words, not mine. It was very strange hearing CM Punk say he was fired and that he did NOT quit. He was not a quieter as he joked. Well, saying “I’m outta here” and “I walked” sure seems to make it pretty clear what happened in my mind. Followed up with a lengthy two month suspension for not returning to work. I suppose the WWE termination papers were just a formality months later, but I am not calling that a firing at all.

TRUTH: I agree with CM Punk on taking pictures with fans.

See? When I agree with CM Punk, I will say so. When I disagree, I will say so. Either way, he was right. If a fan is acting like a jerk to you in public, um yeah, I would ignore them too. Also calling wrestlers by their real names has never been a real popular action to take. As noted before, I always go with ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am’ when meeting WWE Superstars (when I rarely have anyways). Just a simple courtesy and being polite. Ask nicely; he/she will respond the same way. Pretty basic stuff you learn when you are five years old.

TRUTH AND LIE: CM Punk will NEVER return to WWE.

Ultimately, this is where we end things. CM Punk has no intentions of coming back to WWE and has no desire to have a working relationship with them ever again. He is done, is VERY happy in his life right now, and is busy doing other projects. The man is not hurting for cash and can live comfortably at home for the rest of his life. When Punk says he is never going back, I believe him. When he first departed WWE earlier this year, I wrote that he would be back in a year, few years, whenever, etc. Now? I believe he is done and is content with that decision with zero regrets.

That being said, never say never folks. This is the wrestling business. The Undertaker lost at WrestleMania. The Ultimate Warrior appeared on RAW in 2014. Sting just stepped into a WWE ring last week. You just never say never…

Overall – I enjoyed the podcast and thought Colt Cabana did a nice job of playing it down the middle. As a first time listener, that was a welcome surprise. As noted above though, I do hope part two of the interview carries a different tone and is not just another ‘bash the company’ therapy session. About the comments made by CM Punk, I agreed with some but disagreed with most, and I say this as a BIG fan of his. A simple two week notice would have changed my perception ten fold, rather than the walk out, but both sides were clearly past that point when everything came to a head. Bottom line: I doubt this interview really changed anybody’s position on the whole ordeal. People who supported him will continue to do so no matter what, and the people who did not support him will continue not supporting him…

Self Promoting Finale!

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article topics :

Truths & Lies, WWE, Justin Watry