wrestling / Columns

Ask 411 Wrestling: How Quickly Will WWE Change Under Hunter?

November 5, 2015 | Posted by Mathew Sforcina

Welcome to Ask 411 Wrestling, the only wrestling question and answer column that this week is being written to the soundtrack of one song on loop! I am Mathew Sforcina, and while I am writing this column for you lovely people, next week I shall not. Instead, Jed Shaffer, Book Rewriter and all round top gentleman will be filling in for me. I could come up with some justification for this, a family gathering, some sort of important meeting or some such, but honestly? I intend to play Fallout 4 for 18 or so hours straight this time next week, so there.

Got a question you’d like answered by someone not nearly as obsessed with Nuka Cola as I am? [email protected] is where you send it.

And now, with that out of the way, BANNER~!

Zeldas!

Check out my Drabble blog, 1/10 of a Picture! I’ll be posting there as per usual, because 100 words isn’t THAT hard to do while I’m recovering from Deathclaw attacks.

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Most Charismatic: Everyone is entitled to their own list, obviously, and most of the names I saw thrown about I’d have no problems with, barring one or two which I hope to Victoria were just for gimmick effect. I will, however, defend Regal (and to a lesser extent Jericho), on the basis that, at least in my mind, charisma isn’t just promo skills. Charisma is being able to keep your attention and be interesting and memorable, being able to demand you pay attention to you. Regal I felt always had that, he didn’t look like a male model, but he made you pay attention to what he did at all times. Add in the greatest facial expressions this side of Vince… He’s on my list. But I understand if you don’t.

And Foley was a very tough cut.

The Trivia Crown

Who am I? There’s a theme with my various ring names. I once lost my job working for a guy because I lost a match to a guy related to the guy who was my boss. My first manager started off as my enemy before turning on someone who used to be my ally. My first match on a specific WWE brand saw me win a title. I once won tag titles with a guy I had problems with due to the other team having worse problems. I’ve been part of a mixed tag match on a big show that was slightly unusual in terms of numbers. One guy I’ve fought a bit recently is now in the news, and a guy I used to tag with wrote me off WWE TV. I am who?

James Pritsky has the answer for us.

Who am I? There’s a theme with my various ring names (All had John, and all last names rip off other famous shows or people). I once lost my job working
for a guy because I lost a match to a guy related to the guy who was my boss.
(Eugene, Eric Bischoff) My first manager started off as my enemy before turning
on someone who used to be my ally (Melina, Matt Cappotelli. My first match on a
specific WWE brand saw me win a title (ECW, ECW Championship). I once won tag
titles with a guy I had problems with due to the other team having worse
problems (The Miz). I’ve been part of a mixed tag match on a big show that was
slightly unusual in terms of numbers (Morrison, Trish, Snooki vs. LayCool and
Dolph). One guy I’ve fought a bit recently is now in the news (Alberto Del Rio’s
return to WWE), and a guy I used to tag with wrote me off WWE TV (The Miz,
again). I am who? You are Johnny
Nitro, John Morrison, or Johnny Mundo!!!

Who am I? My first ever loss was to someone best known for a gimmick involving a number. My PPV debut saw me beat a cross-sport star. My first title win was the night after beating the dragon of the guy I took the title from. I’m batting 50-50 in my last matches in big American companies. A Canadian once tried to run me over, albeit at the behest of another Canadian. Because of me, creative control was beaten, Randy Orton was once mugged and 141 is secretly important, I am Who?

Getting Down To All The Business

Dennis asks where a wrestling term comes from.

love the column, especially the years you’ve been writing it. I’ve got what seems like a simple question, but I can’t find anything to support or reject the obvious answer. Why are pro-wrestling factions called ‘stables’? I’m guessing it started with the 4 Horsemen – horses : stables, it just works. I spent some time searching, however, and the best I could come up with is this wiki article. It only lists the Vachons and the Freebirds as ‘stables’ (as opposed to families) prior to the Horsemen, but they were more commonly described as a family and tag team/trio, respectively.

Hoping you’ll have more success.

That’s the right entomology, but it’s a bit more complicated than that, and the term wasn’t originated from the Horsemen.

The term stable as meaning a building where animals, especially horses, were kept came into the English language from the old French stable/estable in the 1300’s. From about the 1570’s, the term was transferred to being used to describe a collection of horses belonging to one stable/owner, and then in 1897 the term moved over to also be used for a group of fighters under the same management. It originated in boxing and the like, where a manager would have several men under contract who would train and travel together and what have you, he had a stable.

And that’s where the term comes into wrestling, in that before the Horsemen popularised it, you didn’t have factions or groups, you had either a family or you had a loose collection of wrestlers who all had the same manager, so they were the stable of that manager. They didn’t have any rhyme or connection beyond the same manager. The original Legion of Doom under Paul Ellering, for instance, was Road Warriors, Jake “The Snake” Roberts, The Spoiler, Matt Borne, King Kong Bundy, Arn Anderson, The Iron Sheik and the original Sheik. Apart from being managed by Ellering, none of them had any connection.

It wasn’t till the Horsemen (The Freebirds were a gang) that the modern idea of stables being a group with a similar look and outlook and what have you became popular. But the term is much older than them, and isn’t limited to wrestling.

Andrew wants to know if you know ahead of time if Kane’s going to win or not.

Has Kane ever won a match where he summoned red fire form the corner posts before the match started? If not, isn’t that one of the biggest spoilers in history?

Kane’s pyro is one of those little things in wrestling that you don’t really notice until it’s pointed out to you, but once you do, you can’t unsee it. The way Earl Hebner rolls his shoulder when it’ll be a two count, the way Ric Flair never bumped flat on his back, and the fact that Kane only ever does his pyro once, and if he does it before a match, it means he won’t win.

However, unlike with old school Kurt Angle and his false teeth (if Angle had them in for his match he’d be winning since he’d be smiling afterwards), this is one trope that WWE has given just enough leeway to so that it’s not a sure thing.

For instance, take the 2011 Raw Roulette episode. CM Punk faced Kane, who came out and did his pyro at the start, and then won the match. Via intentional count out by Punk, but a win’s a win.

So yes, he’s won at least once. It’s not a sure thing.

Nightwolf asks about The Rock. No, not that one.

Do you know the story of why Don Muraco was fired from the WWF in 1988?

Not the specifics in terms of what exactly happened, but I know the rough details. In August 88, WWF had a tour of Europe going, mainly France and Italy. Muraco was on the tour, working face after he saved Superstar Billy Graham from a beatdown. On the tour, he was working injured and unhappy as he hated working face. And then on the tour Muraco had a falling out of some sort with Nick Bockwinkle, who was one of the road agents at the time. After this argument, Don and Vince decided to mutually part ways according to Muraco’s shoot interview, or he was fired, according to the scuttlebutt.

Either way, a big blow up with a road agent is the straw that brought the camel back from the dead or whatever.

Brian asks questions I’m not sure I can answer.

2. Kane the Undertaker’s name and silloutte were in WWE magazine the month he debuted as part of a Survivor Series preview. Any chance your Google Fu can turn up that image, 25 years later?

Sadly not, as I was unable to find a site that had old WWF magazines scanned and up for perusal. Perhaps a reader has the magazines from late 1990 (I would assume the image would be in the one with Ultimate Warrior on the cover, Nov 1990) and can look it up/scan it/email it to me.

3a. Are the WWE Create a Character figures (please post the commercial!) the most ridiculous WWE toy concept, or their most brilliant-instead of convincing parents and kids to buy yet another Seth Rollins, instead you’re actually buying a samurai! Instead of Apollo Crews, Astronaut Crews!*Coming not so soon. Plus, it’s a way for WWE to test out new gimmicks!

The what?

…

OK, fair enough. Couldn’t find the ad, alas. Did get this though.

Anyway, although there is a certain amount of ‘Buy another John Cena, now with New Hat!’ about this, I think this is more an attempt to get kids who aren’t wrestling fans to buy the stuff. I entertain at kids parties as part of a side deal, and although I go as a wrestler and often have interactions with kids based on wrestling, I’m weird looking enough to make an impression that even if a kid isn’t into wrestling they are still going to want to punch me in the joy department play traditional but fun party games with me.

So with this line, you encourage mass sales to those kids who want to have all the various bits and bobs, while also picking up a few sales from kids who don’t care about wrestling but would like a fire breathing flying samurai with an electric guitar because who wouldn’t?

3b. What would you want the Massive Q Create a Character figure to be?

A limited edition run that sells for ten times the price to collectors only.

Looking over the current sets, there’s no real sci-fi elements, so I’d go for that, have a jetpack, holosword, futuristic helmet, robot/circuit style tattoos, that sort of thing. Everyone else is fantasy, I’d want to try and corner a separate market share.

Brandon asks about the turning over point.

Love the column, it’s a must-read every week.

Everyone assumes that Triple H and Stephanie will take over WWE once Vince retires (or, more likely, shuffles off this mortal coil). I have two questions about that.

1) How long will it take Triple H to remove Kevin Dunn?

Depends on the circumstances. If Vince sets the date where he merges with the Helios AI in advance and we head to that date calmly and rationally, if the transfer of power is handled with a minimum of fuss and what have you, then I think Dunn would, with no prompting or any real discussion, decide to also merge on a date close to Vince’s.

If the meltdown of Area 51 gets away from Vince and he doesn’t get out in time, and thus the handover of power is unexpected and sudden, Dunn kinda has to stick around simply because in that circumstance it’s not a really great look to immediately fire one of your Executive Vice Presidents. Dunn would stick around long enough to ‘teach’ a few people StepHunter select to become the new directors, and then probably move into a less hands on role.

Hopefully.

2) How long will it be before we see an appreciable change in the product on television? I can’t foresee them doing a Russo-esque reset, but I imagine things will start changing behind the scenes rather briskly.

Thanks!

Well…

Some of the visual issues people have with the show will hopefully be gone when Dunn kills Bob Page, so there will be a noticeable visual change, but in terms of there being this sudden and glorious overhaul of the on-air product… Steph’s been involved in the show for years, and Hunter is being groomed as a guy who can follow in Vince’s footsteps. I’d like to hope there will be more opportunities for guys and gals to grab rings of various metallic compounds, but we’re not suddenly going to get 89 NWA 2KXX or anything.

It’ll mostly be cosmetic changes quickly, and there will be lasting differences if/when StepHunter have a slightly different criteria as to how a show should be put together and who can be a main event talent and so on, but in terms of sudden and substantive change, sorry, you’re hoping for a last minute Shane swooping in scenario, given that he’s the one who has a track record of pushing for massive overhauls (Attitude, Global Domination, MMA etc).

Speaking of overhauls, Andron asks if WWE should do one with the Divas.

Well, with the divas division, do you think we have enough time on a wwe raw to highlight enough Divas? Would WWE benefit from a TV Series that is focused around the divas? Or would it be too much? With WWE trying to hire more divas, and some divas you barely make room for on television. More Divas training to be released to the main roster eventually, I just don’t think wwe is going to utilize them enough to make the most of this so called revolution they are trying to amp. But if you have a tag team title for women, and keep a main title, have them do a separate show, maybe on a night separate from any of their other network tv programming. You would probably have a show to showcase more of their in ring talents. Maybe WWE softcore or something. Would that be a overkill or over exposure for the wwe’s divas division?

I don’t see WWE Softcore being used as a name, same as how they probably won’t use WWE Plus, WWE Red, WWE4Sale, WWEJasmin, WWE-Foundry or any other name that could be drawn into comparison with sites of a certain nature.

But as for the idea of a show focused on divas, they have one of those already. It’s called Total Divas.

And while I am hesitantly behind bringing back the Women’s Tag Titles, the issue is that creating a new show won’t help the main issue, which is to establish to the majority of the viewership that women’s wrestling is important and interesting and worth your attention. Separating them from the rest of the roster would be like separating tag teams or cruiserweights, it’ll be nice for those who are already fans but not help anyone else.

The goal (I presume) is to establish the women as being on par with the men, so that you now have 50% more of a global talent pool to find your next superstar face of the company, if it turns out that there’s a Stevanna Austin or Bruna Sammartino out there then you can make the most out of her.

Having the women in their own little playpen away from the men will actively work against that. They need to be shown and presented as equals, on the main show.

And to hell with the idea that Raw doesn’t have enough time to showcase the Divas division. If there’s one thing Raw has, it’s time. Cut out most of the recaps if you really can’t lose the fifteenth Popeye’s Chicken ad…

You can’t show someone as being equal without comparing the two, and to compare the two, they have to be on the same show. Shimmer works because they only run once every few months, so they don’t overload anything, a weekly Divas show might burn out the audience already there and would fail to bring in many new ones.

The issue is not time, it is presentation. They need a better script and less reliance on jealousy to make this work. Women’s tag belts will give a little more options, assuming they don’t just end up as Bella ego boosters…

Sigh, that’s all they’d become, wouldn’t they?

*1/100th of a Chandler*

James asks about HBK and a what if.

If Shawn Michaels does not hurt his back and never takes those four years off, what does the rise of Triple H look like? Do we get endless HHH/HBK matches and a DX vs NWO invasion angle? What happens to Cena and Edge and Orton and the rest of the post Attitude era stars?

Seems like a simple enough change, Taker gives Shawn a little more boost and he misses the casket totally, or Taker blows the spot a bit and Shawn just splats on the casket and is just banged up. What happens then?

On air, it’s simple enough, as after Wrestlemania Triple H turns on Shawn based on the whole ‘You lost at WM you bad wrestler you’ concept, maybe we get a run of Shawn/Austin V Dude Love/Triple H matches, right until one of two things happens.

One, given the rise of that new kid The Rock, coupled with Austin’s success, Foley’s upswing and the general fact that the company has clearly turned a big corner thanks to the spotlight off him, Shawn eventually gets fired/his release and is YOUR newest nWo member, and The Kliq rules WCW even harder.

Two, Shawn dies.

That’s not a joke, 98 Shawn was in a REALLY bad place, with his drug problem a major issue that the four years recovering from spinal fusion and starting a family and such straightened out. I know it’s tempting to think and hope that we’d just get 03 Shawn 5 years earlier and we’d have Awesome Shawn throughout Attitude.

But we don’t get that, we get 98 Shawn get even worse, and that ends with a pink slip or a black bag.

By the time the post Attitude era roles around… If Shawn’s somehow still around, he’d be one of those names that would be deemed ‘too expensive’ to bring in for the InVasion, but come in months later with no real bounce because of it. If he sticks to the WWF… He’d be moved down the card, reluctantly, but he’d move down. He’d probably be a grumpy vet who ‘works’ with the new guys and gives them little, so the effect that would have… It’s hard to say.

But either way, no back injury, then Shawn doesn’t help train Daniel Bryan. Do you really want that?

Adrian From Ireland asks about Earl Robert Eaton.

Was Bobby Eaton ever approached by WWF back in the day ? He was a solid hand in the ring and could have been a good fit for the tag division with sweet Stan. He and Nikita Koloff seem to have been the only guys that never jumped.

According to Jim Cornette and a story in Jim Cornette’s Midnight Express Scrapbook, the Dennis Condrey/Bobby Eaton/Jim Cornette version of the Midnight Express did get some interest from WWF.

The trio were flown to New York to have a meeting with Vince McMahon. The story they tell is that Vince sold them on making money from action figures, about how WWF was the biggest wrestling company in the US and thus they could make a whole lot of money there. Cornette and the Express, unsurprisingly, were old school wrestling guys and they were a little thrown that Vince didn’t want to talk about wrestling, that he didn’t pitch them on some great angle or feud or give them a list of guys they would work with.

Then, Vince mentioned how they were a little underdeveloped physically, and while Vince did not mention steroids directly, he did say the duo would have to get their own ‘stuff’.

The three of them weren’t impressed with the meeting, as there was no talk of wrestling, just action figures and muscles, so they stayed with Crockett. Eaton/Lane were never approached.

Connor has a simple enough question about another great tag team wrestler.

why did Ricky Morton turn heel and join the York Foundation in 1991? if there’s one person who didn’t suit being a heel it was Ricky Morton

Ricky was asked this a few years back, and after talking about how he was going 30 minutes the night before and such, he said this.

…You see, I still had it in me. But, at the time, you had Sting, Lex Luger, and all these other people… They can’t get over you so they have to do something to try and get you out of the way… And the York Foundation, that’s why that came about. To get me out of the way.

But the thing is, with Gibson coming back from injury, that’s a chance to tell a new story, given than Morton was kinda floating aimlessly without Gibson, but at the time it was felt that they didn’t need them teaming. So, to give him a chance to freshen up the character they turned him. He was a veteran hand and it was shocking and fresh and such.

Yes, it didn’t work, by all means, but there’s logic there. You had a chance to tell a new story with guys not doing anything else, why wouldn’t you? You have a chance to do something never done before and get some attention with a shocking heel turn, that’s booking 103.

jayzhoughton tests my old old school knowledge.

[Insert Obligatory Kiss Ass Statement Here]

I would like to test your google-fu on the naming origins of a couple of “standard” pro wrestling moves.

1. Russian Leg Sweep

There is no long lost old timey Russian wrestler called Ilov Blini who terrorised Upper-West Newark in the 20’s with it. There’s a hold in amateur wrestling called a Russian Tie Up, which is basically standing beside your opponent and grabbing their arm. Add in a leg sweep and you have, well, a Russian Leg Sweep…

2. Snapmare

Well, a while back I mentioned how Danno O’Mahoney ‘invented’ the Irish Whip back in the day. Turns out he also busted out Snapmares.

Thus blowing the ‘it was a woman’s move and thus female horse’ theory out of the water. Or not, hard to say.

Another possible theory is that the move is vaguely similar to a preferred technique to wrestling a calf to the ground in the rodeo, it might have gotten from there to mares and snapping…

3. Clothesline

This one is similar to snap mare as in the exact transition point is unknown, but the naming idea is simple enough. A Clothesline is where you extend your arm and the other guy runs into it and is knocked over, just like they’ve run into a clothesline. As opposed to a…

4. Lariat

Where the arm moves to impart extra energy to your opponent. (In theory. In practice the terms are interchangeable, Japan prefers lariat, USA clothesline) Stan Hansen is the namer of this one, as a lariat is the rope in the form of a noose you see cowboys carry to catch steers and the like. Hansen called his clothesline variation a lariat, and after he broke Bruno Sammartino’s neck with the move, it became feared for its power.

5. Brainbuster

Killer Karl Kox actually came up with the term to describe an inverted suplex, but he then taught the move to Dick Murdoch, and he used the name to describe the move we now call a brainbuster. Reports are a little weird on that switch.

6. Piledriver

The Pile Driver, a piece of construction equipment that drives poles/piles into the ground in a motion that is similar to the pile driver itself. Wild Bill Longson is credited with the name, as he is credited with the move.

7. Powerbomb

This is kinda odd.

OK, so Lou Thesz created it, most people know that, and he called it a Greco Roman Front Body Drop. But the Japanese called it a Ganso Bomb, a.k.a an Originator Bomb.

The Bomb part comes from the sound of the impact when they hit the mat. The Power part seems to have been added by those in the US given that your overpowering your opponent. Again, there is no hard, fast date of origin.

8. Chop (not “knife edge” chop)

It’s roughly the same thing. The movement of the hand is like chopping meat, or wood or some such… Again, it’s just one of those quirks of English where something similar to something else takes the name, just like stables.

Hey, full circle! Neat! We’ll end it there then! Jed will be back next week (under my name), so until then Wrestling. Wrestling Never Changes.