Forgotten Favorites 04.20.10: Raw 2005 – Edge & Christian vs. Shawn Michaels & Randy Orton

Welcome back, wrestling fans. The countdown is on for my live Extreme Rules experience this weekend, and I’m getting pumped. Orton-Swagger is a genuine toss-up, and even though Cena’s a given in the WWE Title match, I have faith in him and Big Dave putting on a good-to-awesome show.

Reminder: Yes, you are more than welcome to bring giant Grimm signs, so that I am more easily able to spot the people that will be buying me beer.

Oh yeah. Props to my Extreme Rules attending buddy for doing some quick work during Raw and getting me the closest thing to a banner:

And so now I suppose it’s time to get down to the action. This week we’re hitting rewind all the way back to 2005. We were getting ready for some big changes in WWE, where a number of young superstars were finally ready to step up and move into the spotlight.

So, uh, who wants great wrestling?

Raw – February 21, 2005
Edge & Christian vs. Shawn Michaels & Randy Orton

HOW IT WENT DOWN

Randall K. Orton, breakout star of the dominant faction known as Evolution, made history at 2004’s installment of SummerSlam, becoming WWE’s youngest World Champion in history by claiming Chris Benoit’s title at the age of twenty-four. Capping off a dominant 2004 full of killing off legends and owning the Intercontinental Title division, Orton’s SummerSlam victory should have been a dream come true, right?

Well, apparently Randy never got the memo that was issued early on in Evolution’s formation: You do not upstage Triple H.

One night after claiming his first World Heavyweight Championship, barely over two years after his professional debut, Orton was thrown a sick going-away party by his Evolution stablemates. It wasn’t exactly a party that Orton was aware he was attending, but all the same, it was made plain that Orton was “going away” from the inner circle of Evolution for good. After successfully defending his title against Benoit on Raw, Orton was the victim of a brutal beat-down at the hands of his former friends, as Triple H, Ric Flair, and Batista mercilessly bloodied the Legend Killer. From here on out, it was Orton vs. Evolution, with the young maverick standing toe to toe with his former and mentors and allies.

While SummerSlam was the catalyst for serious changes in Orton’s career, another guy found himself on a slightly different path following the PPV. Edge was scheduled to defend his Intercontinental Title against Chris Jericho and Batista in a Triple Threat, and for some bizarre reason, Edge’s hometown Toronto crowd actually booed the future Rated-R Superstar. Since his return earlier in the year, the babyface-booked Edge had lost a bit of his, er, “edge,” and was being booked in such a plain and irritating fashion that fans wouldn’t stand for it. Rather than cheer for Edge because they were told, they decided to voice their disapproval. And as a result, we got a heelified Edge in the following weeks.

And so, as the WWE turns, Orton continued his battle with Evolution, leading to dropping the belt to HHH at Unforgiven, a mere month after pinning Benoit at SummerSlam. Edge, as a result of an injury, was forced to vacate his IC Title, which eventually went to Chris Jericho after he defeated Christian in a match for the vacant strap at Unforgiven. By the time he returned, Edge was playing the full-blown heel, up to his dastardly tricks, willing to do anything to get himself a shot at the World Championship.

We ran into another vacated championship on the November 29th edition of Raw, which I happened to be in attendance at down at the Baltimore Arena (or maybe it was DC…). On that night, Edge came his closest yet to tasting the World Title, when he and Chris Benoit earned a split decision over HHH in a Triple Threat. The lack of a clear-cut winner led to the title being vacated, and an Elimination Chamber match was signed on to declare an undisputed (Raw) champion at New Year’s Revolution. In a case of unnecessarily complicated booking that was a mild Attitude/Russo throwback, the most recent champion Triple H walked out of the Chamber with yet another World Title, turning back Orton, Edge, Batista, Benoit, and Jericho.

Edge felt he got a raw deal at New Year’s Revolution, and he blamed his loss On the match’s special guest referee, Shawn Michaels. Edge had seen the Heartbreak Kid as a thorn in his side ever since October when the veteran beat him for the fans’ vote to get a title shot at Taboo Tuesday. After he Superkicked away Edge’s title hopes at NYR, Edge saw fit to lose the gloves and, as they say, keep it real.

So now we’re rolling around to the Royal Rumble. On the Raw before the PPV, the Edge and HBK rivalry raged on when the two met in a six-man tag with historical implicatons. Excluding a one night tag in November gone all kinds of wrong due to miscommunication, the January 24th edition of Raw marked the first time in years that former multi-time Tag Team Champions Edge and Christian fought side by side, teaming with Tyson Tomko in a losing effort against Michaels, Benoit, and Jericho. Although there was no acknowledgment of the two being brothers, the E&C Dynasty was able to reunite through a shared love of evil heelishness.

When it came time for the Rumble, Edge was able to get his revenge on Shawn Michaels, as both were scheduled to compete in singles competition. You can catch the conclusion of the match below …

On the same night, Orton finally got his chance for retribution against reigning World Champion Triple H. You can catch the hype video for this match below, which features clips of the original Evolution, uh, “going-away party” from the night after SummerSlam …

One night after the Rumble, Orton still wasn’t the champ, but he also hadn’t completely let go of his issues with Triple H. This night marked the first time that Orton tagged up with the legendary HBK, earning a tag team victory over Evolution’s Triple H and Ric Flair.

The next couple of weeks saw Orton transition into dealings with Christian and his Problem Solver Tyson Tomko, all while Edge had some battles of his own with Evolution in his quest to claim the World Title, even still while his feud with Shawn Michaels was going strong.

And so we get to the date of this week’s featured match: February 21, 2005. Rivalries and past tag team histories all intertwined when rising babyface Randy Orton teamed back up with the legendary Shawn Michaels to take on the challenge of the reunion of one of WWE’s most successful tag teams of all time, Edge and Christian.

WHY IT SHOULD BE REMEMBERED

As Zack de la Rocha once said… it’s coming back around again.

Every few years WWE goes through transitions which lead them into the next historical “period,” wherein the product and the line-up of major stars both experience changes that may range from mild to extremely unmild. There was the multi-year, very kid-friendly Rock’N’Wrestling Era, dominated by the likes of Hogan, Savage, and Warrior. This led to the short-lived (but still kid-friendly) interim-era of the New Generation, with guys like Hart, Michaels, and Nash rising to prominence. From here there was the explosion of the Attitude Era, featuring such not-so-kid-friendly stars as Austin, Rock, and (Satanic) Undertaker. After all that, we got a shift in direction with the year 2002, where, with WCW out of business and the dropping-off of Attitude’s biggest stars, we entered into yet another interim-era that was ruled off and on by varying stars, from Guerrero/Benoit/JBL’s brass rings realized to Goldberg/Lesnar’s dominance to Evolution running roughshod over the entire roster. It was an entertaining time in wrestling with some great matches, but it lacked a Hogan or an Austin to define it, making it in retrospect into a transitional period in history.

But then there was 2005.

When the Raw tag match took place, we were approximately one month away from what would mark the official turning point in WWE’s presentation of its stars, that being WrestleMania XXI. It was on that night that Batista and John Cena claimed their first World and WWE Championships, officially beginning what would become two of the most successful main event careers of our most recent era. On the same night, Edge won the first Money in the Bank Ladder Match, granting him the title shot that would eventually earn him his first WWE Title; and in the first match of the evening, Rey Mysterio earned a victory over Eddie Guerrero that would kickstar his path towards the main event scene. Indeed, WrestleMania XXI may be more aptly referred to as “where it all began again” than the event’s precedinng installment, considering Mania XXI marked the rise of four of the most important names/characters of the last five years: the heroic and honorable John Cena, the brilliant manipulator Edge, the lovable underdog Rey Mysterio, and bad-guy-bashing babyface Batista. Yes, alliteration is the shit.

But wait … wasn’t there another guy who’s been fairly dominant in our most modern era? Perhaps a man with a (former) taste for killing legends and a (current) love for kicking skulls?

Strange as it may seem to look back and say it now, Randy Orton actually didn’t achieve the aura of a WWE main eventer until AFTER all of these other guys who broke through at WrestleMania XXI. In fact, it would take him roughly two years longer than his fellow leaders of the New New Generation, moving from failed babyface to heelish upper-card stagnation to Edge-lackey, all before he found his calling as the IED-suffering, head-punting Viper. Quite the historical dillemma, considering Orton made it to the World Title before all of the previously listed four guys. Even so, it wasn’t until 2007 that Randy Orton found out who he really was inside the ring and established the Age of Orton that WWE had hoped was going to happen back in ’04.

Randy Orton’s recent movement into good-guy territory is a big change for a guy who’s been fighting for the dark side for so long. Up until recently, this week’s featured tag team match was one of the very last times the WWE audience witnessed a face Orton. Shortly after he and HBK triumphed over Edge and Christian, Orton turned heel with a surprise RKO on then-ladyfriend Stacy Keibler, firmly establishing a traditional face/heel dynamic for his WrestleMania bout against The Undertaker. From here on out and up until a couple of months ago, the dude was (mostly) an all-out heel, from declaring Eddie’s soul damned to attempting to destroy the McMahon family. Tensions with his Rated-RKO partner Edge led to some teases of a turn, but IED soon reared its head and Orton was solidly an evil man.

People often label Orton’s face turn of 2004 a failure, a claim that has a good level of legitimacy considering the expectations at the time. It is generally assumed that the plan was to build up towards HHH vs. Orton at WrestleMania, a course that WWE still looked like it might almost pursue up until January. But then that other guy in Evolution started building a whole lot of steam and getting better reactions than either HHH or Orton, and it was then that Batista moved into Orton’s assumed spot in the main event at WrestleMania. And so with Batista in the spot that was planned to be the ultimate payoff to Orton’s face turn, a confused WWE turned Orton heel again, only seven months after his World Title victory got him kicked out of Evolution. Thus, it would seem that the smiling and posing Randy Orton of late ’04 and early ’05 was a waste of time that might have actually stalled Orton’s career a little.

Before there were Voices, there was simply… “HEY!”

However, while I will fully admit that the angle failed in achieving both immediate and long-term goals, it was not a complete waste. Proof is found within this week’s featured match. The sound quality on the posted video isn’t ideal, but you can still make out the crazy pops that Orton gets over the course of the match. The dude was definitely over, and the crowd most definitely wanted to see him win the match. He may have struggled with redefining his character back in September and October, but by February Orton had a firm grasp of what his job was as a good guy and how he should go about doing it. He was finally starting to settle into the groove of his babyface character, speeding up his offense and implementing a well-paced moveset that kept the crowd interested and caring. He was miles away from the guy who looked lost defending his World Title against Triple H at Unforgiven, both in terms of his ring psychology and crowd reaction. One week before tagging with HBK, Orton took on Christian in a hell of a singles match, with each guy playing his designated role of hero or villain to perfection, and the result was a classic match that made both guys look golden due to the crowd response. When either that match or the tag with HBK went down, chances are that Vince MacDaddy was smacking his forehead, wondering, “Why couldn’t they have cared this much when he wrestled Triple H?”

The thing is… they could’ve. Watching the video above, you can see for yourself that Randy Orton was clearly an over babyface wrestler that elicited a strong reaction from the fans. But the big problem with turning Orton face in ’04 was the absence of any reason for fans to start rallying behind him. He was booked as an asshole for most of ’04, even up through his World Title feud with Chris Benoit, and then one night after his title victory (as a heel!) he was kicked out of Evolution for over-stepping the faction’s boundaries. The following week, Raw was kicked off with a disclaimer that read, “Remember the guy we’ve been telling you to boo all year long? Well… now he’s your FAVORITE!” It sounds absurd I know, but it got weirder the week after when another disclaimer paraphrased the Nature Boy, reading, “Whether you like it or you don’t like it… it’s the direction we’re moving anyway. And you will like it!”

Had WWE not jumped the gun on kicking Orton out of Evolution, they may have built Orton’s face turn the same way they did for Batista. Then when Orton had developed a following via rebelliousness against his stablemates, the crowd would’ve actually cared when he eventually butted heads with Triple H. It seems that the situation with Batista just fell into creative’s lap at a certain point without any prior planning, and something finally clicked for them, at last realizing the route they should’ve pursued from the get-go with Orton. Of course, Orton himself struggled in the beginning with adapting his in-ring style to something more pop-friendly, but when you’re being crammed down the audience’s throat and are simply expected to earn their approval for no real reason, you shouldn’t really be expected to make a totally smooth and immediate transition. It took Orton some time to find his groove as a face, but when he did the dude was earning all the pops he was assumed by WWE to start getting back in September.

But not long after tagging with HBK that night in February, Orton was once again back playing the heel, a role he’d play in various forms over the next five years as a new era unfolded in WWE. Now here we are in 2010 and it seems that we are on the verge of something that, while not quite a new era just yet, seems as if it might at least be the beginnings of a new transitional period. Randy Orton, known for the extent of our modern era as a villain, is now fighting the good fight. Interestingly enough, the same can also be said for one of the men who stood across the ring from Orton in this week’s featured tag, a man who’s been defined by devilish heel tactics for the last five years.

Edge made his name as The Ultimate Opportunist by being this era’s ultimate heel, and yet now he’s earning Spear chants and huge crowd reactions. Edge’s rise to insane levels of heel domination was just starting to gain serious momentum around the time of his losing effort in this week’s E&C reunion. In the five years that followed, Edge was involved in some of WWE’s most unpredictable moments, most of which were owed to the character’s villainous tendencies. But now that Edge has abandoned his evil ways and moved into a new phase of his career, the antics of the Rated-R Superstar (as we have come to be familiar with) are now a thing of the past. At least for the time being.

And so with Edge entering a new phase, WWE itself must move into a new phase. Keep in mind that over the last few years, the Edge character has been an enormously important piece of the overall creative puzzle. The spontaneous yet methodical nature of his heel persona has allowed WWE to shake the entire foundation of their programming with one evil Edge-committed deed at any given time. It was the surprise interference of Edge that cost Cena his title at One Night Stand. It was Edge who they transferred the belt to when RVD proved unreliable. When Kennedy’s injury spoiled creative plans, it was Edge who became Mr. Money in the Bank and won Undertaker’s title. And let’s not forget dropping his belt in one Elimination Chamber match, only to take Kofi’s spot in the second Chamber match and win yet another World Title. I think it sounds too harsh to say that creative has used Edge as a crutch for the last few years, but that Canadian sure has come in handy.

But remember, it’s the heelish persona of Edge that has made all of these memorable moments possible. Next to John Cena, Edge has arguably been — in terms of overall storylines and brand arrangement — the most important character of our most recent era. But now that we’ve got a different kind of Edge, we are undoubtedly going to see a different kind of WWE. With Orton and Edge, the two biggest villains of the last several years, now working as babyfaces, we are very likely entering into the suggested transitional period. On the flip side, Batista, a man who was actually a higher priority babyface than Cena at one point, is now one of those dastardly bad guys, and a late start in the business has the clock already ticking on Big Dave’s career. The same can be said for Undertaker, who, while he can still go, is obviously entering into the final journey of his legendary career. Then you’ve got Shawn Michaels apparently retiring, along with rumors floating around that WrestleMania XXVI was also the end of the beloved Mr. McMahon character. This past era’s two top heels are now faces, and one of its top faces is now a heel with limited ring-life. One iconic veteran is gone (for now, at least), and another may be following closely behind. In the midst of all this, fresh faces like CM Punk, Sheamus, and Jack Swagger have all recently stepped up their game to the main event level. Indeed, the times they are a-changin’.

WHY IT ISN’T REMEMBERED

I’ve beat the dead horse of the “changing of an era” quite enough, but it serves my case here well. When WrestleMania XXI was over and done with, both Orton and Edge were set on paths to the great successes they would enjoy in the following years. Orton had reverted back to the heelishness that would lead him to the top, and Edge had claimed the Money in the Bank prize that gave him his first of nine World Titles. That’s not quite enough to completely block out the memory of this week’s tag team affair, but it’s enough to outweigh its significance and thus be a little hazy in fans’ memories.

Nearly Orton’s entire career has been defined as a heel, and not everyone who was around to witness his ’04 face turn has fond memories of the period. Orton’s face run is more remembered for its agonizing first couple of months than it is for the last couple of weeks, in which Orton had shown dramatic improvement in the face department and was really getting big pops in his matches. All of that was wiped out when this happened …

With the exploding popularity of John Cena came a rush of new viewers to the product. Two of his main foils were the characters that Edge and Orton developed into during the period of 2005 and on. Thus, newer, younger fans have only one major experience of each of these primarily heelish dudes, with even longtime fans mostly associating these guys with their most recent domination of the current(ly passing?) era. Just prior to WrestleMania’s changing of the guard, Randy Orton was a smiling babyface, and Edge was a yet-undefined championship-obsessed heel. The newer fan may assume that Orton was always a villainous Viper or that Edge (when working for the dark side) was always Rated-R. Similarly, longtime viewers might easily forget that Orton was actually OVER as a face just before his re-heelification, and that prior to finding his role as the Ultimate Opportunist, Edge was simply just another generic baddie with a couple screws loose.

Just a few weeks after the Raw tag, both Orton and Edge were on the road to superstardom. It took Orton a bit longer to solidify his spot at the top, but WrestleMania XXI still stands as the starting point, since it marked Orton’s first main event level program playing a tried and true heel (SummerSlam is debateable in that respect) and taking on a firmly established babyface veteran. Much the same, Edge’s MITB victory set him on his course to become the guy who would take any shortcut necessary, however looked down upon, in order to reach the top.

The MITB briefcase was the catalyst for Edge’s main event ascent

Other factors contribute to this tag falling by the wayside, namely the other great matches that this tag found itself sandwiched between. As much as I’ve said of the pre-Opportunist heel Edge being forgettable, there still stands a particular Street Fight that remains in the memories of most fans. One week after the adversaries faced off in tag team action, Edge and Shawn Michaels settled a rivalry that had carried from slight origins at Taboo Tuesday (a name and weekday concept that I still don’t get) through New Year’s Revolution and the Royal Rumble, offering the grand finale to their feud in a Street Fight environment on Raw.

And as if that wasn’t enough, if we go back one week prior to the tag, we’ve got a televised singles contest between Orton and Christian that tore the house down. I’m a big, big fan of this particular match, and I consider it to be up there among Orton’s very best singles showings as a face. With the tag match being stuck between two awesome singles matches, its understandable that it might somehow take a backseat to these one-on-one showdowns.

– –

Feedback! (or, Proof That The World Knows I Exist!)

KOTR 2001 Triple Threat Match Possibly?

Posted By: SHADE

A great match indeed. One that showed the potential of what might have been a hell of a WWF Title division that summer if not for Benoit’s injury and the premature Invasion angle. But as good as I remember it being, I still haven’t gone back and watched it since Benoit’s death, and I really have no desire to go back and watch it (or any Benoit match, for that matter). I’m not discouraging the viewing of Benoit’s matches, but I don’t want to promote them either.

The match really wasn’t that good. These two just never had any chemistry. But you are forgetting what is most historical in this match:

Who would have ever thought in a million years that the blonde eye candy in Angle’s corner during this match would go on to be the biggest female wrestler in history?

Anybody that told you they thought Trish Stratus would become the star she is today at the beginning of 2001 is lying. NOBODY saw it coming, which is what made it so awesome to watch.

Posted By: Guest#1360

You can throw me onto that list of people who didn’t call Trish’s breakout. I always thought she was smoking hot but that her talents were limited to strictly being smoking hot. Even when she won the Women’s Title the first time I thought that she would eventually fizzle out and disappear. I have since learned the error of my ways.

Trish Stratus > Kurt Angle, HHH, and Stephanie McMahon. It was true then, it’s even more true today.

She’s the most beautiful woman in the world. The fact that Vince McMahon discovered her and made her in to a star is one of the best things he has ever done. He may be an egotistical bastard, but occasionally he’ll find somebody like Trish and convince me he is a genius. Same way he discovered people like Dwayne Johnson and Steve Austin.

Posted By: Guest#4320

“Discover” is a strong word. The Rock was offered a job because of his family, and Austin had been turning heads long before Vince picked him up. And in both cases it was the performers themselves who came up with and perfected the characters that made them stars. As for Trish, I guess you could say that Vince gave her her big break, but that wasn’t before he humiliated her on national television for two years.

Anyway, my point is that Vince does a lot for the performers, but we shouldn’t discount the power of the raw talent of people like Austin, Rock, and Trish.

McMahon did NOT discover Austin. Austin was a well-established midcarder in WCW, and even got to show a bit of his personality with the Hollywood Blonds, and then again in his brief ECW run. What McMahon did was allow Austin to be Austin.

As for the HHH/Angle matchup, this also is a lost matchup because is was smack-dab in the middle of the awesome run that the WWF was having in 2000-2001. The Royal Rumble PPV alone was all shades of awesome with Benoit & Jericho having a killer ladder match that was different from the tag team spotfests they had been running. In addition,t his also had what was arguably the best Rumble of all time. This would also be followed by the 1-2 punch of No Way Out and Wrestlemania, arguably two of the best PPV’s in the company’s history. No wonder that the WWF title match at this show got lost in the shuffle.

Speaking of forgotten classics, I’d like to see a review of TLC3, which was the four team matchup they had on SD in May of 2001. This featured the usual suspects (E & C, Hardys, Dudleys), along with the tag chaps the Canadian Chris’s, and I would argue that with the exception of Summerslam 2000, this would be the best tag ladder match of them all (both WM matches are a bit overrated IMO).

Posted By: Michael L

Agreed on the Austin point. Explanation is above.

PPV at that time, as you said, was phenomenal. Nearly every month (or at least every other month) was a must-see show. The first three PPVs of ’01 were insanely good, with WrestleMania standing tall as the grand finale to the Attitude Era.

TLC3 was indeed an awesome match. BUT (and I think you know what I’m going to say) … there’s this one dude in the match that I am not fond of. And no, I’m not referring to Bubba Ray. Of course, the fact that there are eight guys in the match severely cuts down on this guy’s screen time, so of all his matches this one stands the best chance of being covered. Then again there’s also that one six-man elimination tag from Raw in ’04 where Benoit, Edge, and Jericho took on Evolution, and that match indeed rocked the world. But still, it all comes back to the Benoit thing.

I remember that angel was the beginning of the end for the WWE’s boom period. For Stef to not end up with Angel as an evil pair, and instead he sides with HHH, then a month later HHH is the mastermind of the biggest angle of the year, just gave away that it was becoming the Triple H show that was only sidelined when his quad exploded…

Guest#4320: if you think Vince discovered Austin then you don’t even know what you’re talking about

Posted By: battleBowl92

HHH having masterminded the whole Austin thing was absolutely ridiculous. I thought Rikishi being the culprit was ridiculous, but then they dropped the whole HHH bombshell to completely destroy my sense of reality. And then you have them both becoming a tag team within just a few months, which made total sense.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved me some Two Man Power Trip. But really, none of it made any sense. Then again, this is professional wrestling.

Great match. 2001 could have been very well remembered had it not been for the invasion. Especially Royal Rumble through Wrestlemania. One of the best 3 month periods the WWF had.

Posted By: Denton

I’m not as sour on the Invasion as some, although it was nowhere near the WWF vs. WCW war we had all dreamed of for so long. After years of speculating about dream matches of Sting vs. Undertaker or Austin vs. Goldberg, we ended up with Billy Kidman vs. X-Pac. All in all, disappointing as it may have been, the stuff between the bells was mostly utter awesomeness. Angle vs. Austin still remains one of my all-time favorite feuds.

Eh, I just can’t get into Angle vs. HHH, ever. Couldn’t at Unforgiven, couldn’t at the Royal Rumble, couldn’t at No Way Out 2002, any time they wrestle I cannot get into their match. I guess they lack the chemistry, but I honestly believe HHH is the only man that Angle cannot have a good match with….and Mark Henry.

Posted By: BR

Nathan Jones might have something to say about those HHH and Mark Henry comments.

I never noticed a lack of chemistry between the two guys, although I don’t think they ever had a match that’s been on par with Angle’s classics against Michaels, Austin, or Guerrero. Unforgiven and the Rumble were fine by me. No Way Out was a different story, but I blame that on the insane amount of roids Trips was obviously on when he returned from injury. The man was utter crap until SummerSlam against Michaels, and even then he was off-and-on for a while in the ring.

Hardcore Holly vs. Lesnar was from the 2004 Royal Rumble, not 2003 like you said.

Normally, I would let your mistake slide, but you referenced the 2003 Angle-Benoit classic just prior that, so it doesn’t make much sense.

Posted By: Correction

You win this round, Correction. I stand… corrected.

So Jim Grimm you’d rather Angle stay in the WWF/WWE and end up paralyzed or killing himself?

Posted By: Craig L

Yes. The entire point of my column, which I thought I explained in great detail, was that I wish Kurt Angle had either lost all of his mobility or died inside the ring.

But another interpretation might be that I think Angle could have accomplished more in his career had he not jumped to (and stayed with) TNA. Another interpretation still might say that I actually don’t want Angle paralyzed or dead, considering with WWE he’d be forced to stay clean and looked over, whereas TNA is a company that gladly opened their doors to a guy who refused to enter much-encouraged rehab just months after said refusal cost him his job.

I echo the comments of whoever said they couldn’t get into HHH/Angle. Both great workers but for some reason they just never clicked together in the ring. Unforgiven 2000 and NWO 2002 were both massive disappointments and RR 2001 is saved only by the stories surrounding the match: Trish/Steph (which you neglected to mention!) and Austin looking for revenge on HHH.

In the same vein, I never fully got into the Angle/Guerrero series of matches either. WM20 was good (not great), Summerslam was pretty bad and the 2 out of 3 falls, while decent, was mired by interference.

Oh, I know you get Forgotten Favourite suggestions all the time but, since we’ve been dealing in that time period already: Triple H vs. Benoit No Mercy 2000?

Posted By: mr_wishart (Guest)

To each his own, I guess. Outside of No Way Out, I never had any problems with HHH and Angle’s work. I wouldn’t call any of their matches truly legendary, but I still find them entertaining (excluding No Way Out, for reasons explained above). I was definitely into the series with Eddie, but I don’t think they were ever able to top WM XX.

HHH vs. Benoit is one that I haven’t gone back to check out in a while, but it’s also one that I’m not so sure I really want to go back and check out. I don’t remember it badly or anything, but, as I’ve said, watching Benoit just isn’t the same anymore. I’m clearly not in the same camp as a lot of my readers, as Benoit is quite often suggested, but for me, I just have no interest in watching the dude anymore.

The match was declared a No Contest, and post-match activities saw HHH dominate Austin before debuting his now trademark Motorhead entrance music

Maybe my memory is sketchy but I remember his music debuting during the Hell in a Cell match at Armagedon, although I am most likely wrong.

I got into wrestling in 2000, and even though I would agree that in-ring match quality is better these days, the actual booking was so better than with solid mid-card (both upper and lower) and tag team divisions (arguable the best of all time with Hardyz vs Dudleyz vs Edge and Christian). When you watch Raw and Smackdown you do realise the massive decrease in focus on mid-card feuds. Anyone else remember that fantastic MVP-Miz promo that lead to nothing? The only decent mid-card feud I could think of was Hardy-MVP on Smackdown 2007-2008, even that ended pretty poorly. They keep on pushing mid-carders into quick main-event programs like CM Punk, Sheamus and Swagger, rather than getting over with decent mid-card feuds like Jericho, Benoit, HBK, Rock, Austin etc did before.

Posted By: AH

And so we have the most glaring problem with WWE’s booking over the course of the recently discussed modern era. WWE isn’t making many new stars because WWE isn’t really trying. At least not like they used to. Orton and Cena were the last two main eventers to be built up through midcard titles in the vein of Austin and Rock, and even then their title reigns went without any standout feuds. MVP and Miz showed amazing potential with that one promo, giving me that “Could this be a future main event?” feeling that I spoke of a couple weeks ago, and yet, as you said, it led to nothing.

Good article about a great feud spoiled by pointless and poorly argued trolling of TNA.

I’m not a regular poster but sometimes the endless TNA-bashing gets ridiculous. Do you really think returning to WWE to face some of the weak identicut members on its roster would benefit Kurt’s “legacy” in any way? Does anyone think the same Hall Of Fame “legacy” that inducted Koko B Ware is worth striving to get into? TNA exists as an alternative to the WWE as flawed as it often is. The fact that nothing on WWE now compares to the level of excitement they were offering in 2001 speaks volumes. Just accept that TNA is an alternative and if you don’t like it, don’t watch. But plenty of folk do…

Posted By: exasperated

If Angle came back and worked World Title programs with Cena, Orton, Edge, and Jericho, then yes, most definitely, I think it would add to his legacy. All of those guys are on completely different levels than they were when Angle left in 2006, and the match-ups would be fresh and marketable. I said last week that Angle still has something to prove in WWE, and I stand by the points I made. And yes, it is still worth striving to get into the WWE’s Hall of Fame, because it has essentially become the pro wrestling Hall of Fame since McMahon claimed ownership of all of wrestling history. Not that Angle’s future Hall eligibility is questionable (it isn’t in any way), but I still think that given his talents (and what he appears to still have left in the tank) the guy can add on to what is already a Hall of Fame worthy career.

And I’m not against the existence of TNA, nor am I against people enjoying their product. I am just against one of the best wrestlers in the world working anywhere but in the big leagues. And it isn’t WWE blinders that makes me consider TNA the minor leagues; it’s just that, like it or not, WWE is far and away more successful, more historically established, and reaches an extremely wider audience.

I miss those old Rumble posters. They rocked!

Posted By: IWC Member #23495867

I’m assuming the ’92 Rumble poster was the inspiration for ’01. Both were badadass.

Angle > All

Posted By: guest

Can’t argue with that.

The HHH/Angle feud was all Angle, and I think HHH always resented the fact that he got more attention from it.

In honor of the best WWE PPV ever, Backlash, being thrown out for a gimmick, could you cover a FF from one of them? My suggestions would be Rhyno vs Raven 2001 or HHH vs Batista 2005

Posted By: Cactus

Two quality matches right there. I was actually considering getting some Backlash in within the next couple of weeks, what with my desire to keep this column somewhat relevant to the current product and the fact that Extreme Rules has limited history. Indeed, Mr. Cactus, I will take these under consideration.

Trish REALLY needs to stop posting on this site.

Posted By: Randy Orton of Slytherin

With the restraining order and all, she really has no other way to contact me. Trish, if you’re reading this, we had something special, but you’ve got to move on. Just like that Strokes song, our lives just changed lanes. Be strong, and fly free, Trish. Fly free.

Really, what do you have against Bob “Buttplug” Holly?? What, don’t you believe the guy was always a master ring general and main event material?? Why, if I was in charge of the WWE in mid to late 90s, I’d surely make him the face of the company!

Posted By: Guest#0710

I actually think Holly might’ve made a decent IC Champion at one point. The dude got over with the Super Heavyweight thing for a while there, at least until Crash came in and started getting all the attention. But, no doubt about it, he was a masterful master ring general.

I absolutely marked the fuck out the first time I saw the poster for the ’01 Rumble. The callback was perfectly understated and totally owned.

I’ve always enjoyed this match as it, along with Hunter’s match with Benoit at No Mercy 2000, were the first couple of times you got to see him play the tweener after being heel since WrestleMania XV. Though I do hate how the action in the ring just STOPS so the McMahonification can take place at ringside. It goes on for TOOOOOO LOOOOOONG and, as I said, Angle and Hunter do absolutely NOTHING while it happens.

And I like how the previous Raw leads to Austin’s interference, which leads to Hunter’s run-in during the Rumble, which leads to No Way Out…even if Trips winning there served zero purpose other than to get him a win over Austin on PPV. Hunter’s ego aside it’s pretty tight booking…until it’s erased by the Two-Man Power Trip angle…

Hunter: Sorry about that.
Austin: What?
Hunter: You know…trying to kill you last year.
Austin: Oh, I know. I was just working on a new catchphrase. What do you think?
Hunter: It’ll never catch on. Still, I’m sorry.
Austin: It’s cool. Hey, I dropped you from a crane.
Hunter: Yeah, that was crazy. WWF doctors are the best, man.
Austin: Ain’t that the truth. Hey, wanna watch me beat that slut Lita with a fucking chair?
Hunter: Sweet.

Triple H’s music at Armageddon 2000 was a pre-lyric version of the eventual Motorhead theme.

I was at the Pond for TLC III and it rocked my world. Would love to see what Matt and Jeff’s book calls the Forgotten TLC get remembered.

Posted By: neverAcquiesce

As much as I still think that throwing HHH into the Austin car angle was retarded, I can’t argue with the awesomeness of the feud the guys had. And like you said, the booking was consistent and made sense, giving these guys plenty of reasons to hate each other’s guts. And as much as their eventual partnership was even more retarded, I can’t say that I didn’t love the shit out of it.

Any feud built around Stephanie McMahon deserves to be forgotten.

Posted By: Spaz Monkey

My rebuttal:

Shield your eyes from the “W-W-F” logos! They’re all over the place in this column. It never existed, you hear me? We’ve always been “W-W-E” from Day One. Your eyes will melt out of your skull and your soul will burn in hell unless you remove this lie from your memory at once!

Remember: Bleep your “F’s” or your first born will belong to Satan.

Posted By: Rewriting History

The “F” erasure is necessary. Failure to comply with legal restrictions will result in the WWF Panda ferociously clawing apart and devouring every man, woman, and child that is close to Vince McMahon.

***. The shit with the chicks took up too much of the match and Angle kinda nosold HHHs legwork with the pop up belly to belly.

Trips of 00 vs Angle of 02 wouldve rocked

Posted By: BlackMan90

Agreed on the ’00 and ’02 matchup. I think this is why No Way Out came across so poorly, considering Angle had upped his game a lot since their last confrontation. Unfortunately, HHH was nowhere near the ring-shape he used to be (or would eventually be in again). Going with my points from last week, I think Angle vs. HHH in 2010 would be better than any of their prior matches against each other, and thus could really help further solidify Angle’s legacy.

Chyna should only be remembered for delivering the douchiest of douchechill moments in the history of RAW.

After she horrified Playboy readers with her spread (ECCCH!), she cut a promo where she talked about how “all of HER boys in the back were very proud of her.” It was enough to make your skin crawl and even a pointless run-in from Naked Mideon couldn’t save this from being a cringe-worthy Raw moment.

You know damn well “her boys” were in the back passing around the magazine while making all kinds of “tuck” jokes and “who does she think she’s kidding comments” all while HHH T-F’d Stephanie while thinking up ways to get her to leave the company.

Posted By: Brad B

Now, in order for this movie to play in my head correctly, I need to know whether or not you’re suggesting that HHH and Steph were engaged in said activities within the same space as the magazine-passing and crude-comment-making.

I love it everytime an internet writer brings up “the casual fan” as if this shadowy construct was the ultimate wrestling litmus test. It’s usually just used to prop up whatever bullcrap opinion the writer chooses to propagate. I happen to know quite a few casual wrestling fans (i.e. people who just watch it on television sometimes) and a lot of them know about TNA. Wrestling isn’t as near as hot as it used to be. As much as I don’t care for the TNA product, the fact that they consistently do a fifth to a quarter of the WWE’s ratings is pretty respectable. Stop being a mark.

Posted By: LilTimmy

When I said that Joe and Styles were nonexistent to the casual fan, I didn’t mean they weren’t aware of them so much as they’re looked at as doing nothing of significance. For example, I know that there’s a Ring of Honor. I’ve watched some ROH over the years, and I’ll even occassionally check out some of the show on HDNet. But I do not care in the slightest to follow their storylines or keep up on who their World Champion is. Therefore, in the grand scheme of how I look at pro wrestling, ROH remains essentially “nonexistent” to me. Their World Title could change hands every week, and, unless I randomly stumble upon their TV show or find it alongside other news in a post, I would have no idea. And this is (generally) how the casual North American wrestling fan (which does exist) perceives TNA.

And I wasn’t making the case for most casual fans not having any idea that TNA exists, although I’d have no problem arguing that. For what they are, their ratings are respectable, but they still have nowhere near the recognition given to WWE. And I’m pretty sure that it’s the people who aren’t pro wrestlers who call other people marks that are in fact generally regarded as the actual marks. But that’s just my understanding of a term I consider unnecessary.

I love it everytime an internet writer brings up “the casual fan” as if this shadowy construct was the ultimate wrestling litmus test. It’s usually just used to prop up whatever bullcrap opinion the writer chooses to propagate. I happen to know quite a few casual wrestling fans (i.e. people who just watch it on television sometimes) and a lot of them know about TNA. Wrestling isn’t as near as hot as it used to be. As much as I don’t care for the TNA product, the fact that they consistently do a fifth to a quarter of the WWE’s ratings is pretty respectable. Stop being a mark.

Posted By: LilTimmy (Guest) on April 13, 2010 at 04:29 PM

Not that I don’t believe you, but a few of my buddies are ‘casual fans’ (who watch on occasion and just follow the major stuff). They had never even heard of TNA until we were drinking at my apartment one Thursday night a couple months ago and I turned it on.

They recognized Hogan, Angle and had zero clue, zero clue, ZERO clue who AJ, Abyss, MCMG’s and the other TNA stars were. We then watched a ‘Band’ segment and talked about the 90’s, before they suggested to turn the channel.

So yes, there are plenty of ‘casual’ fans out there who have no idea what TNA is, when it is on, and who the new TNA ‘stars’ are…..

Posted By: James Bond

Quite agreed, 007. I’m not against TNA trying to grow right now, and I’m not rallying against TNA fans who are supporting what they consider the superior product. But the fact remains that TNA is still nowhere near the level of WWE in terms of the size of its audience.

no mercy 2000, benoit vs triple h.

Posted By: finch

Everybody wants some Benoit but me.

Trish didn’t revolutionize anything. The divas are fucking terrible. But, she did build herself up in to a huge name, and because of that she is having great success on her own. That’s what she deserves credit for.

Posted By: Guest#1355

Trish was probably the best the WWE women’s division has ever seen and I’m glad she was able to have such a successful career. She worked hard, improved a hell of a lot, and deserved everything she got.

Any feud built around Stephanie McMahon deserves to be forgotten.

Posted By: Spaz Monkey (Guest) on April 13, 2010 at 01:13 PM

Why? This feud made Trish Stratus in to a star. So for that reason it is historic. And while I think some people do go overboard in their praise of Trish, the fact is she really is far and away the best diva ever, and probaly the best all around woman wrestler in history.

But Steph, Vince, and Lita were the ones that got her over in the first place.

Posted By: Guest#1434

Trish was pretty over as the mad hot valet for T&A, but there’s no doubt that the whole angle with Vince really put her over the top. McMahon will never out-do himself after making out with Trish in front of his sedated wife in a wheelchair. Never.

Sunny, Sable, and Chyna were all egotistical cunts. Lita was an overrated slut. The current divas aren’t even worth talking about.

So I don’t blame people for kissing Trish’s ass all the time. She was the only legit diva WWE ever had. And as somebody else pointed out, her success outside of wrestling easily trumps everybody else as well. She’s a goddess.

Posted By: Guest#2713

For whatever it’s worth, Sunny, Sable, and Chyna were all really over for a period of time. I have nothing bad to say about Lita. The woman got herself over both on gimmick and in-ring action, and she did it playing both the face and the heel. I wouldn’t put her ahead of Trish, but she’s still one of the best female wrestlers WWE has had.

Trish REALLY needs to stop posting on this site.

Posted By: Randy Orton of Slytherin (Guest) on April 13, 2010 at 11:02 AM

Can you get Mickie to stop posting as well? She keeps talking about how popular she is and how WWE will never fire her. Even more obvious, I think.

Posted By: Guest#5950

If Mickie James and Trish Stratus both read my column then I have achieved everything I ever wanted in life.

Another reason this match is forgotten is right in the Royal Rumble promo. Most of it is focussed on Trish/Stephanie, with Angle/HHH being the almost supporting players.

It’s a good match, but nothing special. In fact, the crowd looks kinda bored and only seems to wake up when Trish/Steph start their catfight and when Stone Cold shows up.

Of course, I’m one of the few that doesn’t worship at Angle’s feet. He was a good wrestler/character, nothing more or less for me.

Posted By: JLAJRC

Up until his alleged drug problems and career in TNA led me to question his judgment, I was definitely one of those worshiping at the altar of Angle. And I want to do so again very badly, thus last week’s plea for him to return to WWE. And you’re right about the Rumble, as most of the focus was on the rivalry growing between Trish and Steph. It took a little bit away from the importance of the title and it made the heel vs. heel booking even more awkward.

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Until next time, stay safe and out of Dundalk.