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411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction: Was WWE TLC Worth Watching?

December 18, 2019 | Posted by Jake Chambers
WWE TLC

Welcome back to the 411 Fact or Fiction – Wrestling Edition, I’m your host, Jake Chambers. Every week, Fact or Fiction poses statements on pro-wrestling history, culture and current events and then challenges writers to explain why they believe each statement is totally factual or completely fiction. No middle ground will be tolerated!

This week’s guest is: Bryan Kristopowitz.

The leading authority on B-movies in the world today, 411mania is privileged each week to have Bryan’s expertise on hand with The Gratuitous B-Movie Column where he analyzes the coolest movies you won’t see at your mega-plex or in the box office standings. Few entertainment journalists cover the movies in Bryan’s weekly column, and none can match his spin-kicking-ly, uzi-spraying enthusiasm for the wildest and wackiest in this genre.

It should be no shocker that someone obsessed with extreme exploitation and fist-fighting action would also be a massive wrestling fan. So I couldn’t think of any better to help me look at the fallout of the most violent B-show PPV of the year: Tables, Ladders & Chairs!

Statement #1: The TLC 2019 PPV was an exciting and action-packed event.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FICTION – There wasn’t much buzz going into the 2019 TLC show, and the WWE didn’t seem to have much of a plan until a few days before the event, and the show certainly came off like a thrown together, lackluster affair. The only match that stands out at the moment is the Aleister Black/Buddy Murphy match, and maybe the women’s tag title main event, but everything else was kind of lame. I wonder how many people actually enjoyed the show and thought it was worthwhile.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – I was definitely NOT one of people who enjoyed the show and thought it was worthwhile. We’ve seen everything they can do with these three weapons at this point and it’s not exciting action anymore when someone energetically kicks ass one second and then weakly crawls up a ladder the next. There’s no drama left in these situations and they need to do better. I wish they’d just give these wrestlers the same amount of time to put together a good regular match. Charlotte/Becky vs. Asuka/Sane in like a 25-minute PPV tag team match main event would have been way better than what we got.

Statement #2: In a tag team ladder / TLC match, both members of the team should have to grab one title each in order to win.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FICTION – Since both members of a tag team don’t have to be pinned in order to win a regular tag team match, I don’t see anything wrong with only having to have one tag team member grabbing a belt in order to win a tag team TLC match. What would happen if one guy from each team grabbed a belt? What would be the “tie breaker”? I think the current rules for this kind of match are fine and shouldn’t be tampered with.  

Jake Chambers: FACT – I get what Bryan is saying about one person needing to get the pin in a tag match to win the titles, but we do assume (hope) that it follows a tandem move that wouldn’t be possible in a singles match. With just one person needing to get both belts, it makes tag team (or worse, multi-tag team) ladder matches visually the same as a singles ladder match. Much like how in a cage match both members of a team need to escape to win, I think it only makes sense that both teammates need to retrieve a belt for the victory in a tag team ladder match.

Statement #3: You were surprised that PCO won the ROH Championship at Final Battle. 

Bryan Kristopowitz: FICTION – At the moment, who is more over in Ring of Honor than PCO? And who else does ROH have that isn’t on the verge of leaving the company outside of PCO that you would want to see hold the world title? I can’t think of anyone at the moment. And while PCO’s matches are insane and he probably won’t be able to carry the company for very long (how the man hasn’t shattered his spine yet is beyond me), there’s no one else that makes sense as ROH world champion right now. In a month or so? Things will likely be different then. But, again, right now, PCO as champion makes sense.

Jake Chambers: FACT – Gotta disagree with Bryan here, because I think the answer to his questions IS Rush. ROH did a surprisingly good job of building Rush up to the title, and he’s an international superstar in his prime who still had a list of unique matches left to have against ROH stars like Jay Lethal or Jay Briscoe. PCO is cool, but I thought it was weird he was even in this position over fan-favourite Marty Scurll, let alone won the championship.

Fact or Fiction – Quick Hits
– one sentence is all you need for this FoF lightning round!

1. Dumpster Fire of the Wrestling Week: Seth Rollins turns heel.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FACT – I think the WWE should have tried harder to keep Rollins a good guy because it’s not like Raw has an abundance of viable good guys at the moment.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – Anytime Bray Wyatt does anything, that’s gotta be my Dumpster Fire of the Week; dude is literally WWE Champion right now, ugh.

2. You have watched some of an episode of WWE’s D-show Main Event in 2019.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FICTION – I don’t have the network so I don’t watch Main Event, but when it was on cable the show was always awful so I have no doubt that it’s still just as awful. You’d think the WWE would have put a little more effort into the show.

Jake Chambers: FACT – Caught a terrible Cedric Alexander vs. Mojo Rawley match from last week’s episode and wondered why the excellent era of 205 Live had to be sacrificed for this.

3. They Live! is the greatest B Movie of all time.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FICTION – It’s the greatest B-movie of all time starring a pro wrestler, and one of the top movies of the 1980’s, but it’s not the greatest overall B-movie of all time.

¡SWITCH!

Statement #4: With Smackdown on network TV and NXT on cable, RAW is no longer WWE’s “A show”.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – I thought for sure RAW would get less attention once Smackdown moved to prime time on FOX, but it just hasn’t happened. No one cares about TV on a Friday night, meanwhile, RAW is so entrenched on Monday nights, which will be synonymous with pro-wrestling for the rest of our lives. On the other hand, NXT has been battling for ratings and critical acclaim on Wednesdays with AEW, but the combined numbers for both shows really doesn’t threaten RAW’s dominance as the continued most popular and important A-show for the WWE and all of wrestling.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FICTION – I’m not entirely sure the WWE has an “A” show anymore. All three shows seem to be operating well enough on their own, at least creatively, and that’s what should be important (and I believe is what’s important) to most wrestling fans. As for ratings and how much money each show is making for the WWE, I’ll agree with Jake in that Raw is probably still the big moneymaker since it’s the most entrenched of the three shows but I’m sure the other two shows are doing just fine. I mean, no one has been cancelled yet, have they? Is anyone in actual danger of being cancelled? Not really, no. Everyone is making money.

Statement #5: The nWo would never be inducted into a real WWF/E Hall of Fame.

Jake Chambers: FACT – The entire identity of the WWF in the ’90s was in total contrast to what WCW was doing with the nWo. The gimmick wasn’t “revolutionary” to hardcore WWF fans like me at that time. That stuff was lame, boring, and I remember telling everyone who would listen that the WWF was the pure pro-wrestling wild alternative to that mainstream-baiting nWo crap. The WWE can pretend now that the nWo was cool, but they would have wiped that stuff out of history if they had the power back in 1997.

Bryan Kristopowitz: FACT – A “real” WWE Hall of Fame would feature performers from the WWE, not WCW or any other wrestling promotion. A sort of generic pro wrestling hall of fame? Definitely put the NWO in that since the group was a big deal for a period of time during one of the industry’s boom periods. But a WWE Hall of Fame? That would make no sense. Now, lots of guys in the NWO had careers in the WWE, so putting individual members into the Hall of Fame for their accomplishments in the WWE, in their WWE personas, that’s acceptable. Razor Ramon and Diesel belong in a WWE Hall of Fame. Scott Hall and Kevin Nash do not.

Statement #6: You are excited by the return of John Morrison to the WWE.

Jake Chambers: FACT – My 2017 Wrestler of the Year, right here at the 411mania Year End Awards, was John Morrison. He’d spent that year headlining promotions not named WWE all over the world, especially Lucha Underground, which was not just the best pro-wrestling shows in years but one of my favourite straight up TV shows of all time. Morrison had a multitude of great matches in WWE before leaving in the first place and he’s only gotten better since. I believe he’s about to surprise some people and with a serious run at the top of the WWE and I am excited to see it. 

Bryan Kristopowitz: FACT – John Morrison has always been a top talent, a guy that can have a good match with just about anyone, and it will be great to see him back in a WWE ring. I’m going to assume that he will feud with The Miz at some point, perhaps as soon as he arrives, and it will be fun to see the former tag team partners not only try to best one another in the ring, but also try to outdo one another when it comes to their careers in the low budget/direct-to-video movie world. The Miz’s movie career is a little more high profile than Morrison’s, but Morrison has been cranking out some awesome action flicks over the last few years (Boone: The Bounty Hunter is very cool. And you should definitely check out Morrison in the horror movie Minutes to Midnight). In fact, that’s what I hope WWE does with Morrison; has him appear in some new low budget action movies. WWE Films has been severely lacking lately with those kinds of movies.

Thanks again to Bryan Kristopowitz for joining me this week and putting up with all of my “B-something” statements! Be sure to Dudikoff over to his Facebook and follow Bryan’s The Gratuitous B-Movie Column page for all your B-movie news and reviews!

Another one of Bryan’s awesome weekly features here at 411 is his Dumpster Fire of the Week column, where those in the wrestling world aren’t immune from his scathing jabs. Not shockingly, the world is full of dumpster fire material, so hopefully Bryan will keep this column burning for years to come.

And while we’re talking about John Morrison, why not check out my column from last week about my hopes for his return with an analysis of his mind-bending classic Bound for Glory main event with Austin Aries in 2018.