wrestling / Columns

Ask 411 Wrestling: Does Vince McMahon Have Beef With Mick Foley?

May 8, 2023 | Posted by Ryan Byers
Raw Hardcore Title 1998 Mick Foley Vince McMahon Image Credit: WWE

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Big Al asks about the relationship between two men who have both taken memorable cage bumps:

Does Vince McMahon or HHH have any beef with Mick Foley? I’ve seen over the years some of the segments with Mick and Vince and they seem borderline shoot comments where he has been fired/quit several times.

I’m not aware of any real heat, but their relationship certainly has been up and down over the years.

It has been reported in many places, including Jim Ross’s autobiography Slobberknocker that good ole’ J.R. in his role has head of talent relations was the one who initially wanted to sign Foley to the WWF, as Ross had previously seen his work in WCW and elsewhere. However, McMahon was reportedly against the idea as he didn’t see anything in the man then known as Cactus Jack. McMahon ultimately relented and went along with the signing because he though Foley would flop and it would teach Ross a lesson. That’s not exactly personal animosity between Foley and McMahon, but it goes to show that they weren’t exactly admirers of one another in the early going.

From there, Mankind did defy his boss’s expectations and did get over as one of the biggest stars in the promotion. On a January episode of his Foley is Pod podcast, Mick recalled that he always perceived McMahon as having a special relationship with the company’s headliners, such as the Undertaker and Steve Austin. He felt he didn’t have the same bond with Vinnie Mac and was surprised when he actually got there, as evidenced by Kevin Dunn telling him at one point around late 1999 that McMahon wanted to receive a personal phone call from Foley.

Things did go south between in the two men in 2008, when the Hardcore Legend took on a new role as the color commentator for WWE Smackdown and McMahon repeatedly and consistently yelled at him through his headset as he was attempting to do his job, which is something that the WWE Chairman had done to different announcers for many years. The difference is that Foley was not going to take it, and there are multiple accounts – including from Foley himself – of an instance in which he very forcefully confronted McMahon backstage and told the billionaire that, no matter how wealthy he was, he would not be speaking to him that way.

That series of events lead to Foley jumping ship to TNA for a time and his not speaking with McMahon for a year-and-a-half. Ultimately, though, fences were mended and Foley did come back into the WWE fold. If there is currently ill will, it would be a surprise to me.

Tyler from Winnipeg is hammering it home:

I haven’t seen or heard from PAC on AEW TV lately. Where is he?

I’ve not seen anything that is definitive publicly reported, but anytime a guy who wrestles outside of his home country disappears for a while, the most common answer is that there is an issue with his work visa that had to be addressed.

Georgie from Puerto Rico is a long time, first time:

I’m an avid reader of your Ask 411 column. In today’s column answering a question about the Wrestlemania XII Hollywood Backlot Brawl, you finished the answer with, “About anything can be a championship encounter, whether it’s a slugfest outside the arena or a game of tiddlywinks.”

That makes me ask if there any wrestling championship that have been won in a non-regular match? Like a rock-paper-scissors or a bet?

Yes.

One example is the Iron Man Heavymetalweight Title, which is a championship promoted by the Japanese company Dramatic Dream Team or DDT. Admittedly, the Heavymetalweight Title is mostly a comedy championship, but Georgie didn’t say that such titles were ineligible for this answer.

On January 21, 2007, then Heavymetalweight Champion The Crazy SKB (who is a part-time wrestler and a full-time punk rock musician) needed some extra money, so he decided that he would put his championship on the line . . . in an auction. Several wrestlers participated, but ultimately the winning big was placed by Naoshi Sano. Fortunately for Sano, Jack Tunney wasn’t around to rule that he could not buy the title.

Jeffery from Alabama is looking for a strike but coming up with a spare:

Who in the world is Kenny Bolin?

I think his nickname is “Star Maker”.

I listened to Dutch Mantell podcast and Kenny was a guest but I still don’t know anything about the guy … apparently Kenny and Jim Cornette hate each other.

Kenny comes off as a very arrogant and cocky dude.

Kenny Bolin was a close personal friend of Jim Cornette for over forty years, going back to a time when they were just fans of professional wrestling as opposed to being more directly involved in the industry.

While Cornette started working in wrestling as a photographer as a teenager in the 1970s and eventually became a manager in the early 1980s, to my knowledge Bolin did not start working in wrestling until the 1990s. When he did, it was also as a manager, though he was confined to smaller independent promotions in and around Kentucky. The first reference that I was able to find to him managing someplace was in the September 29, 1997 issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, when it was mentioned that he was working for Ian Rotten’s IWA Mid-South promotion around that time. Though he was a manager, he did step into the ring on at least one occasion for the IWA, participating in an eight man tag on April 2, 1998 in Louisville, Kentucky, with the team of Bolin, Corporal Robinson, Dutch Mantell, and the Tower of Doom losing to Ian Rotten, Doug Gilbert, Cash Flo, and Chris Hatler.

Bolin’s biggest exposure as a manager actually came while working for his best friend, Jim Cornette. When Cornette became involved in Ohio Valley Wrestling, Bolin started appearing on the cards in a heel manager role very similar to the one that Cornette used to have in Jim Crockett Promotions, Smoky Mountain Wrestling, and many other places. He was initially dubbed “King” Kenny Bolin and had a stable called Bolin Services. (The stable is “B.S.” . . . get it?)

As a result of OVW becoming a WWF/WWE developmental territory, Bolin has actually managed some individuals who went on to become nationally known wrestlers, the most notable of whom is John Cena – who Bolin actually holds a victory over in a professional wrestling match due to a goofy angle. Others Bolin managed include Carlito Colon, Rico, Nick “Eugene” Dinsmore, Renee Dupree, Mike the Miz, and Bobby Lashley. This involvement in the early careers of several WWE performers is what lead to Bolin eventually adopting the “Star Maker” title.

Of course, Bolin and Cornette have since had a falling out, as alluded to in Jeffery’s question. Apparently, over the years Bolin also developed a friendship with Cornette’s mortal enemy Vince Russo, and it was comments by Bolin that eventually lead to Russo infamously obtaining an anti-stalking restraining order against Cornette in 2017. From there, the friendship was over.

They call Down Under Dan Mr. Wonderful:

Can you recall anybody ever kicking out of Paul Orndorff’s piledriver? I believe this was one of the most protected finishers in professional wrestling. I do not recall this ever occurring in WWF.

Hulk Hogan kicked out of the Paul Orndorff piledriver at least once, in a singles match between the two men on February 20, 1984 in Madison Square Garden. I don’t have the ability to link to it, but there is footage of the match circulating on the internet. As of this writing, you can find it on a site the name of which rhymes with Bayley Lotion. Even though the Hulkster kicked out of the move, they did still give Orndorff a little bit of an “out” in that he showboated for quite some time between hitting the move and going for the cover, giving Hogan time to recover.

In researching this question, I noted one other interesting tidbit. Many reading this will recall WCW’s Ultimate Warrior knockoff the Renegade. He received a meteoric push his first few months in the company but then became a job guy almost overnight when he lost the Television Title to Diamond Dallas Page. On the October 29, 1995 episode of WCW Main Event that served as a pre-show of sorts to that year’s Halloween Havoc PPV, Renegade wrestled Orndorff. This was after Renegade lost the title, but he still had Jimmy Hart in his corner and was still doing the faux Warrior routine. In that match, Mr. Wonderful hit a piledriver on Renegade, but Renegade immediately sat up . . . only to be piledriven a second time and pinned.

Technically that doesn’t qualify as an answer to the question because Renegade didn’t kick out, but I found it interesting that he was allowed to act as though the move didn’t affect him, particularly when his real push had ended by this point.

Wrestling Fan Since 1977 wants to put some people on the unemployment line:

With WWE probably releasing folks soon, who would you release, and where do you think they would end up?

I actually just asked a “Who would you release?” question back on March 27. As I mentioned at the time, I generally don’t like answering these questions, because it feels like I’m wishing unemployment on people, which is not a particularly nice thing to do.

However, WFS77’s question puts a twist on things by asking where I think the released wrestlers would go on to work.

As a refresher, my list of cuts the last time I answered this question was: Baron Corbin, Dolph Ziggler, Elias Samson, Dana Brooke, Tamina Snuka, Bray Wyatt, Bo “Uncle Howdy” Dallas, and Jinder Mahal.

Where would they land?

I’m guessing Bo Howdy would just drop out of pro wrestling altogether, given that he didn’t do anything in the industry between the time of his first release from WWE and his return to be Brutus Beefcake to Bray Wyatt’s Hulk Hogan.

Jinder Mahal is another guy who was with WWE for a while, got cut, and then came back. When he was away the first time, he mostly did no-name indies in the U.S. and Canada, though he did have a handful of matches for WWC in Puerto Rico and the Inoki Genome Federation in Japan. Inoki’s group obviously isn’t an option anymore, but I could see him doing something similar again, i.e. competing in a part-time Japanese promotion. He also strikes me as the kind of guy that Billy Corgan’s NWA would push.

Dana Brooke was a bodybuilder before she was a professional wrestler, and returning to some sort of bodybuilding or fitness modeling seems more likely for her than continuing to wrestle outside of the WWE system.

Tamina is 45. You’d have to think she’s considering hanging up her boots whether WWE lets her go or not.

Dolph Ziggler could join AEW under the name Nicky Gunn, playing the role of Austin and Colten’s wacky uncle.

Samson seems like a TNA guy in my book. If they’re going to take WWE job guys like Heath Slater and Curt Hawkins and turn them into world title contenders, why not do the same thing for the Drifter?

Much like Jinder Mahal, the former Constable Corbin also gives me some pretty heavy NWA vibes. He’d certainly bean upgrade over their current world champion, which is something I didn’t think that I’d ever say about Corbin.

Perhaps the most puzzling name on the list is Bray Wyatt. Like his brother, he didn’t do anything in wrestling after his most recent release. There were stories circulating that he was under consideration by AEW, but nothing ever came of it. I suspect he’d remain in limbo until WWE came calling for him again.

Adrian from Ireland is doom and gloom:

Do you think AEW has peaked? I think they were hot about a year ago when Danielson, Cole, and Punk came in but lately I feel the thing is starting to wane. Wardlow, Orange Cassidy, Darby Allin, the woman’s division, and Hangman all seem to have gone backwards. The CM Punk debacle and now maybe lesser so, but William Regal leaving after little under a year with the company . . . it just feels like the beginning if the end. What do you think?

This question was asked in December. Since then, AEW has sold over 60,000 tickets for All In, which already places it among the biggest non-WWE shows in history in terms of attendance and poises it to top that list by the time ticket sales ultimately conclude. (Well, top that list if you ignore the NJPW/WCW Collision in Korea shows where people were literally marched into the arena at gunpoint by the military.)

So, no, I don’t think that AEW peaked in December.

Paul is looking for a new seasonal residence, a la Ted DiBiase:

I know many wrestlers live in Florida and I know this isn’t just a modern trend. I swear I’ve read that even back in the carny days of wrestling many wrestlers lived in Florida because most carnys lived in Florida during the offseason so naturally many wrestlers followed them. When asked for a source in this recently though I came up empty. Can you find a source for this or is this just something I made up in my own head?

You’re certainly correct that circuses and carnivals have a long history of being based in Florida, as discussed in the linked article. What about wrestlers following the other carny folk to the Sunshine State?

Interestingly, I’m in the same position as Paul. I am certain that I have read or heard this someplace before, but I cannot put my finger on a specific source. It does make a fair amount of intuitive sense, because wrestlers were effectively part of the carnivals in the 1920s and earlier, so why wouldn’t they go where the rest of the show was? If anybody can help Paul and me out, feel free to drop something in the comments.

Of course, in the modern era, wrestlers have remained in Florida, though it has less to do with carnival connections and more to do with favorable taxes, ease of airfare out of the state, and the location of key WWE and AEW facilities.

We’ll return in seven-ish days, and, as always, you can contribute your questions by emailing [email protected]. You can also leave questions in the comments below, but please note that I do not monitor the comments as closely as I do the email account, so emailing is the better way to get things answered.