wrestling / Columns
Wrestling’s 4R’s Tuesday Edition – 11.11.08: TNA Impact, WWE Smackdown and TNA Turning Point Reviewed!
How the 4R’s of wRestling Work!
Here is a quick explanation of the 4R’s. The column will run TWO times a week. On Tuesdays I will discuss TNA Impact and any PPV’s, while my partner in crime Jeremy Thomas discusses WWE Smackdown. The column will run again on Friday’s, covering WWE Raw, with Jeremy Thomas as well as ECW on Sci-Fi by myself. If there is a PPV that weekend, I will also run the RETRO R’s of the show from the year before as well as address some comments when time permits. I will group my feelings on the shows in various categories: The Right, the wRong and the Ridiculous. The Right is stuff that worked very well: a great promo, a great match and so on. PuRgatoRy is a section between the right and wrong. It shows equal traits from both sides that cannot be ignored and need discussed. It is not a bad place per say, as things can get remedied or go the wrong way the very next week. The wRong is what it sounds like: bad matches, bad or boring promos and so on. The Ridiculous is stuff that had no right on TV: Stupid angles, Diva searches and so on. And there is always a possibility of a 5th R, which is as bad as they come, unless you are TNA. They have a special R all of their own, the 6th R; the Russo-FN-Riffic~! This column is supposed to be analytical, and at the right time very critical of the shows, it was the whole reason it was created. This is not a “mark” column, nor a “smark” column, my goal is to analyze the show from many different fronts, reward the good and call out the bad. I will not apologize for my opinions, they are as they are, whether positive or negative.
In HD where available…
By: Larry Csonka
iMpact! 11.06.08:
Beer Money © w/Miss Jackie and Booker T w/Sharmell vs. Christian Cage and The Motor City Machine Guns (Sabin and Shelley): The opening match of the evening was 6-man action, the Guns and Cage vs. Booker and Beer! MONEY! To me this was a great plan for a match, and I have stated so in the past. I like meshing the two feuds for the match because it is a simple way to get everyone involved in PPV matches TV time. You do this instead of giving away the PPV matches before the PPV. It is simple and works out well, especially after coming out of the opening promo where Cage didn’t choose the side of the originals, but didn’t mind helping out against the Mafia. With that being said, this was a fine little opening match here that worked. Everyone worked hard, things clicked, the crowd liked it and it was the simple and clean execution of the right plan. Sure I would have loved to see the match go longer, but what we got was good and served its purpose.
FOLEY SPEAKS WITH STING AND AJ: In an effort to hype the Word Title match between Sting and AJ Styles, Mick Foley wanted to have a little talk with the participants. He put over AJ as a guy here since day one, and as a guy that not only grabbed his attention, but also as the first TNA Triple Crown winner. That is a point that has been neglected a lot by the company, but I feel Foley getting it back out there will go a long way in adding more credibility to AJ with the fans that aren’t TNA diehards. But then Sting came out to the ring and continued to say that he spoke the truth and that if Foley wasn’t careful that guys like AJ and Joe would eventually disrespect him. AJ then ranted that Sting got everything he wanted, money, card, planes while guys like AJ had to bust ass. Sting once again brought up the father of AJ, and that AJ was kicked out of the house at 15. He called him undisciplined and then asked how “AJ Jr. would feel seeing daddy throw a tantrum on TV.” Foley had to hold AJ back from going after Sting, and overall this was a good segment. There are shades of Sting working to be more of a heel, for example a Pius man like Sting would never bring up AJ’s family life as he did. That’s a low blow and uncalled for, it’s a dick more, and something he needed to do to get heat and it worked. I was cool with this segment.
BASHIR and TENAY: While I didn’t like some of the booking early on of Bashir, for the last month or two he has really been on fire and delivering the goods. He has given good, quality matches and his mic work has been outstanding. Chris Lansdell and I talk a lot of MSN and we agree that THIS is the way that the Muhammad Hassan character should have been done. Bashir isn’t a man filled with hate and he isn’t a terrorist. Bashir is sick of the fact that he had a great life, he loved America, he had a family and then after 9/11 everything changed. He gets treated like a terrorist even though he was born here. He is respected everywhere around the word but the US. Bashir is a man that loves America, but hates Americans due to the fact of how he is treated and the fact that it cost him his family. “The best heels are the ones that feel 100% justified in all actions.” I also loves that Tenay tossed in the fact that HE lobbied for Bashir to come to TNA because he felt he was never given the chance, and that Bashir was all like, “Caucasian please, I MADE ME!” and went off on a rant, which had to be broken up by security. I thought this was a great little interview and it goes a long way to building up the character.
Eric Young, Jay Lethal and Consequences Creed vs. The Main Event Mafia Kevin Nash, Kurt Angle and Sting): Continuing the battle of the Mafia vs. the Originals, we had this match. This was not bad at all. I didn’t expect the young guys to get as much as they did, so that was a pleasant surprise. The Mafia is the new faction, and in the beginning they have to be built up and be strong. Right now they are the unit that is completely together and working for the same cause. Creed’s hot tag was a load of fun as well and in the end, a guy with more experience just caught him. I didn’t think it weakened the young guys that much, and overall it served its purpose. Obviously it could have used more time, like many matches these days, but it was solid and I really have no complaints.
THE MAFIA SPEAKS: The opening promo on the show was a very mixed bag I feel. I liked how they introduced Steiner, officially as their Hit Man for the group and the show of power they had all standing there, explaining that they were all former world champions was good. Steiner’s promo was either an “ok” on an “I hated it experience,” it all depends on how much you enjoy Steiner promos. The problem I had was that while the MEM is supposed to have a feeling of superiority, there is a way to act superior without BERRYING the young guys. It stared well, explaining that they have wrestled where the Celtics won their titles, in MSG where Ali battled Fraizer for the title, that they have wrestled in Japan in front of 70,000 people as well. Those are all accomplishments that they have and the young guys don’t. I am fine with that. But when you start BERRYING the guys by saying you hadn’t heard of any of them when you came, that they go to the websites and look for approval and then say that they suck, saying that the crowds only watch for you because they don’t know who the other guys are, well, that accomplishes nothing. I thought when the Originals came out it did get better as Joe explained how THEY innovated things, what THEY did in TNA and that it was war. I loved when he said he would beat Nash down at the PPV, and then said he would give Steiner an example of that tonight so that they could share info at the “Main Event Mafia circle jerk.” I liked Cage’s promo on Booker, I thought it hyped their match well and also worked well into the opening match.
Awesome Kong and Riesha Saeed vs. Taylor Wilde and Rhaka Khan: In revenge for last week’s sneak attack in the locker room, where the California Rolls were destroyed, Kong and Saeed laid the beat down on young Roxxi backstage. The was to leave Taylor Wilde without tag partner for the upcoming tag team match, until Rhaka Khan arrived and offered to go to war with her. The match was kind of there, not horrendous, but not really that good either. It seemed off, especially between Wilde and Saeed, which I didn’t expect. I guess we’ll call that an off night. Khan turned on Wilde, which allowed Kong to get the Implant Buster and the victory. I will say that I like Khan WITH Kong, because there were rumors that Kong and Khan may feud, which would have sucked massive amounts of cock. I am hoping that it leads to Kong dumping Saeed, and the Saeed character getting dropped so that Melissa can have a chance to shine. We’ll see what happens.
23:30: I’d like to think we all know the drill by now. TNA is supposed to be the alternative, they try to be different, and they claim to be the wrestling promotion. So I am their conscience, their wrestling stopwatch. Each and every week I keep track of the time of wrestling on the show, and discuss it here. The in ring time is like a yo-yo here lately. Last week we got over 30, this week a bit over 20. While a lot of the talking was good this week, the really do need to streamline things, cut down on some segments, add a bit more ring time and remain focuses on the goal which is building the PPV and trying to SELL that PPV.
Tag Team Ladder Match for a Shot at the Titles: LAX (Hernandez y Homicide) vs. Tanahashi and Volador Jr. vs. Team 3D (Ray and Devon) vs. Matt Morgan and Abyss: And then we came to THIS match. Overall I wasn’t a fan of the match for a few reasons. First of all the tag title match is set for the PPV. While they seem to be preparing for after the PPV, and that is good, they really should have been focusing on building to the Guns vs. Beer Money. Secondly, why was Abyss’ focus on this and no Kurt Angle? Thirdly, while LAX, 3D makes sense in here, Tanahashi and Volador Jr. really didn’t. I like both guys, but they have had ONE tag match together in TNA, and they lost. Why would they be in what was a #1 contender’s match? Speaking of the match, it was 5-minutes (after commercial) of some stuff that was fine for the most part, but didn’t allow anyone to shine. It was boom, boom, boom and finish. Speaking of the finish, why would Beer Money want Abyss and Morgan to win? Why would they want to face two monsters? That didn’t quite click with me. Finally there is the fact that they gave away a ladder match, for a tag title shot, with no build on free TV; typical TNA.
Scott Steiner vs. Samoa Joe: With Steiner returning to TNA as the “Hit Man” for the Main Event Mafia, he was put right to work against that “half breed” Samoa Joe. The match was the main event of the show, and while Joe and Steiner have actually showed that they have chemistry, it didn’t show on this night. This was just not a very good match. They went short, we saw 4-minutes of it and live reports said it was short. Scott Steiner is obviously slowed more by the recently knee injury, and it showed here. He tried, but he needs to be relegated to tags for a while in my opinion. He was slow, tired and just seemed off. Sure there is some ring rust, but perhaps they should have thought about that before putting him on TV. And then there is the fact that Joe LOST to him. I get what they are trying to do, but I would have either had Joe win or them run some kind of beat down finish from the MEM. In theory the MEM should win and win BIG at Turning Point. That’s why they changed the names around. Angle beats Abyss, Booker beats Cage who is forced to join the MEM, I would have had Steiner screw Joe to cause him to lose and then AJ gets screwed against Sting. That all may happen still, but I wouldn’t have had Joe lose here.
Hey, did you know that there is going to be an X-Division seeding match? Well even if you did know this, you wouldn’t have any fucking clue who was in it by watching Impact this week. Seriously, they just announced the match and then nothing, not even a few names announced. Now I think that most figured that guys like Sonjay Dutt, Eric Young, Jay Lethal, Consequences Creed, Petey Williams and Jimmy Rave would all be involved. Homicide is a surprising name, but considering they don’t have shit for LAX to do this is a good usage of him. But then we’re getting Doug Williams (yeah, signed a deal, remember him?), Tanahashi and Volador. Now don’t get me wrong here, we all know that the main matches are selling the majority of the buys for this show, but there ARE people that may be on the fence that will be swayed to buy the show with the addition of Williams, Tanahashi and Volador. You just can’t mess up like this. There is no reason that for the second month in a row they are having a cluster X-Division match, and that they again didn’t announce the names on Impact. This was just plain stupid.
SHOW RATING: (***) Not as good as last week, but it wasn’t bad. The show was good overall, but also had a lot of give and take, good and bad as it were. There were parts of the show where I sat here, was excited and was thinking to myself, “Yes, this is the way to do it!” Unfortunately there were times I sat here and thought, “What the fuck are you doing that for????” Again, it wasn’t bad overall and for the most part the last 2-months or so of Impact have been solid to really good and rather focused. Let’s see what happens at Turning Point and how that changes the direction of the shows.
By: Jeremy Thomas
WWE SmackDown 11.07.08
DIVA DRAMAZ!: Michelle McCool was getting her hair done and, somehow, was looking remarkably like Kristen Bell before Eve showed up. Eve pointed out she won the Diva Search a year ago, and she wants to take it to the next level. My advice would be to stop interviewing people and start training to wrestle, but that’s just me. She asked Michelle for advice, and the Diva’s champion said she really had to want it before ripping on Maria some. The heel turn is officially coming, folks, and it’s about damn time. The Diva division has been getting stale outside of Brie Bella, who inexplicably beat Victoria’s ass on a near-weekly basis, and turning Michelle heel will…um. Well, it’ll probably mean we’ll have a ready-made feud when Gail Kim comes in, and the rest of the Divas will be relegated to following Brie’s example and beating Victoria on a near-weekly basis. Poor Victoria. This was far better than previous segments have been because it actually seemed to build toward something, and the interest is now in whether Michelle will turn during the match next week, after the match or even a couple weeks down the road. Give me something like this then a half-assed ninety-five Diva tag team match any day of the week, but particularly Fridays.
JEFF HARDY and ‘H vs. Miz AND MORRISON: Well, this was something I sure as hell didn’t see coming. This started off with a segment just before the match, where Jeff wanted another shot at the H-Man at Survivor Series. Vickie the Chipmunk was all “You ain’t got what it takes,” and tossed in a nice little smear against him by saying he wasn’t that Extreme and needed to stick to what he did best by being in a tag match. Jeff didn’t take to kindly to that and promised to blow Vickie’s mind. This was short and sweet, but was one of Jeff’s better little backstage acting jobs, and Vickie wasn’t too annoying. I was moderately impressed with both of them, who have never been exceptional on the mic or in the acting department, so kudos to them.
Once ‘H and Jeff were in the ring, MnM 2.0 made their way down. For those who aren’t sure, allow me to assure you; Miz and Morrison DO have the best entrance in wrestling today. Yes, even as nice as the Beautiful People’s is. There’s just something about the slow-motion bit with the hair blowing in the wind machine that is such off the wall awesomeness that you can’t help but love it. Seriously. I have to give JR and Tazz credit for putting over Miz and Morrison as having nearly beat D-X on Monday; that was something that Vintage Cole and Puppies Lawler failed to do. The paint on Morrison’s abs wasn’t quite as cool as the bling from Raw, but it still fits into the Shaman of Sexy’s character nicely. While Morrison got the opening offense, this quickly turned into the main eventers gaining control and popping the crowd with some nice offense. They did play off the Jeff Hardy starting to be a bit of an ass nicely, as Day-Glo refused to tag in ‘H in favor of trying to handle the match on his own. That didn’t work too well and it let MnM 2.0 take control. Now, this wasn’t as good of a match as Raw, and I was a little annoyed with how Miz and Morrison were only staying in control because Jeff was being a dick and wanted to stay in the match, but it still got them over fairly nicely. The match culminated with Jeff taking out the ECW duo with a chair to earn them a DQ win and leave us (and ‘H) scratching our heads. This makes for an interesting storyline as Jeff snaps, and would be expanded on nicely later on in the show. Some people will complain about ‘H giving Miz the Pedigree post-match, but considering Jeff had cleaned his clock it doesn’t really do him any damage. This wasn’t the best match it could have been, but it moved along some good character development and was pretty decent, so it gets thumbs up from me.
THE BIG SHOW HAS A MESSAGE: The Big Show came out mid-show to address the Undertaker. He told Taker to save something for Show after he was done with Kozlov because he had the man figured out; he got his power from fear. He pointed out that he had no fear of the Undertaker, and to prove it, he was challenging the Undertaker to a Casket match. Well, that’s one way to go. Show’s great on the mic when he’s motivated, and this feud seems to be motivating him nicely; tonight was one of those times. Show seemed almost casual up on the stage, which fits perfectly with the idea that Show doesn’t fear what the Dead Man’s got to bring. This made a match for Survivor Series, and it should make for an interesting match-up from a feud that’s done far better than I expected, and hopefully will continue to do so through Survivor Series. I’d still love to see Edge come out and help Taker at SS to align himself against Vickie, but that’s probably just me.
VLADIMIR KOZLOV vs. THE UNDERTAKER: Finally getting down to the main event, we had an interesting situation. Jeff Hardy was pissed at how Vickie was treating him, Kozlov had his deal with Vickie in place, and ‘Taker was looking to be in some potential trouble as a result. I appreciated Kozlov’s calm walk down to the ring and his no-selling Taker’s entrance. Most guys start to look a little worried when that ominous music starts to play, and for good reason; for Kozlov, it was just another opponent to crush, and it was a great way to sell Kozlov’s character and make him look more impressive. The two big men did a little show of strength to start before they got into it. It was a nice little show of one-upsmanship as both men mimic each other’s moves until the Dead Man took control. Vlad sold Taker’s offense nicely, and Taker did the same back to make this a nice back-and-forth brawl. It wasn’t a five-star effort by any stretch, but for a TV match it delivered pretty nicely, and JR and Tazz did a good job of selling the match and each individual. The DQ sports entertainment finish was a bit of a letdown, but it had to be expected as they weren’t going to destroy Kozlov’s winning streak, yet you don’t want to have a guy like Taker take a clean loss on free TV in the first meeting between these two; it also pretty much cemented Jeff’s heel turn by having him cost Taker the win and then take both men out. I wasn’t a real big fan of Taker choke-slamming Kozlov at the end, but I guess you have to send the crowd home happy.
I’m very interested to see if Jeff can deliver now; a heel has to be able to speak in a way that faces can get by without. This creates an interesting situation in the main event scene. Does Jeff feud with Taker from this point once the Dead Man’s done with the Big Show? Is he going to hang out in the tweener role by feuding with Kozlov and ‘H? There aren’t a lot of main event faces for him to go up against otherwise, and it should be interesting to watch where Jeff goes from here. This was a good way to end the show on a “what the hell??” moment and give fans a reason to tune in next week to see if Taker buries Jeff or if the Day-Glo Warrior can actually beat the Dead Man. Should be a fun match either way, if past encounters are any indication.
THE VIP LOUNGE MEETS THE KISS-CAM: MVP was out to start the show, chillin’ on the phone while he made us wait. It was a nice little touch for MVP’s character to start the show; the show waits on him, and that’s just how it is. He discussed his “so-called losing streak” and trashed Hurricane Helms for making fun of him—while Hurricane popped up to mock him. Nice. He pointed out that it was just due to a loss of focus, and that if he didn’t win enough matches he would have to sign a standard contract. MVP is pretty good on the mic, and this little shortened bit on his own was a great way for Mr. Porter to help get himself back over after all the damage he’s taken with this losing streak angle. Soon enough he was interrupted by the Great Khali and Ranjin Singh, who wanted to get busy with the Khali Kiss-Cam. MVP had a problem with this of course and he took off rather than hang out and watch the Kiss-Cam. Lucky him. They showed some real beauties before settling on the (no surprise) overweight girl in an ECW jersey (ShopZone cheap plug!), who made her way over the barrier with some difficulty and got into the ring. One wasn’t good enough though, so we got two overweight women. He really has become the Mike Awesome from his WCW days, folks. MVP was on the outside and had some great facial reactions. Once again, I’ll give credit to Khali for having fun with this, and Singh for getting this over as well as he possibly can; I still consider this silliness, especially since Khali completely solidified his face turn by helping out Rey Rey on the SUPER-DUPER EXTRA-SPECIAL 800TH RAW!!! The one thing that makes this edition’s far more palatable is that it actually led to something else then time filler, as MVP attacked Khali from behind to lead to a match later in the show. Now, I’m not a fan of the MVP losing angle OR the Kiss-Cam, but if they lead to an actual match or development that gets one or both men over, I can deal with it. That was the case here, so I’m willing to give it a pass as it’s a step in the right direction with these segments.
R-TRUTH vs. SHELTON BENJAMIN: This was, assumedly, the pay-off match for the mini-feud that’s been going on between R-Truth and Shelton over the past several weeks. R-Truth did his usual rap-walk down to the ring. I’m telling you, they need to pay off this feud sometime soon; either form a rap super-group between Cena and R-Truth or turn one of them and have them feud. It’ll be EPIC! After JR and Tazz hyped WrestleMania and the tag match between MnM 2.0 and the team of the Day-Glo Warrior and ‘H, Shelton made his way to the ring to get us started. They started the match out slow but it quickly picked up into a little high-impact offense as Shelton took control. The match was very back-and-forth and did a good job of giving each R-Truth some good offense during the match before Shelton capitalized on a mistake to get the pin. I appreciated them booking the match the way that they did, because while Goldilocks got the clean win, it didn’t damage R-Truth too much. My only problem with this match was that at just four and a half minutes it seemed like a rushed version of a much better match; there’s only so much you can do with that little time and while the two made a good show of it, it suffered as a result. I really don’t like the way the ‘E seems to be transitioning to shorter match times during the shows. While a duo like these two can make them watchable, the majority never have time to build a story, and less than five minutes for a non-squash title match doesn’t work for me. The thing that saves this from being wRong is Truthie and Goldie’s work against each other and the clean win.
BRIE BELLA vs. VICTORIA: Hmm, let’s look at the past record between these two to guess how this one is going to go. The match started off nice, and Brie shows signs of quality wrestling, though that funky little crucifix head scissors thingy was way too slow-motion. I’ll give them some credit for actually giving Victoria a fair amount of offense in this match but let’s face it; the story here wasn’t who was going to win cleanly…which was Brie, of course. Poor, poor Victoria; who the hell did she piss off anyway? The story here was final pay-off post-match of the Bella twins angle, as Victoria and Natalya each grabbed a Bella under the ring and made a wish. This resulted in the twins finally being revealed, much to Tazz’s utter shock. Yeah, because this storyline’s never been used before. Like, say, Kurt and Eric Angle. The Bries smiled at each other and proceeded to lay the beat down on the heels. It’s nice to finally see the pay-off reveal here, and it should lead to some good things down the road. So while I would have liked a little more for Victoria, this was a step in the right direction for these two and I can’t complain too terribly about that.
EZEKIEL JACKSON (WITH THE BRIAN KENDRICK vs. JIMMY WANG YANG: This match started off with a segment backstage where Kendrick decided to rip off Pulp Fiction. Or, really, the Bible, but who’s counting. Our favorite Asian cowboy tried to make the connection to the bible and its relevance (Ezekiel 25:17…get it?), but instead Big Zeke pointed out the Tarantino link. Uh, sure, okay. I really thought it would make more sense for those to go the other direction, but hey what do I know, I’m not a high-quality script writer like this:
Hey, I never saw it, but I’m sure he wrote great stuff on that TV show Freddie, right? That’s why it was so successful….right?
After the commercial break, we went into the match, which was coming off last week’s match where the Wang Yang got the DQ win after Zeke interfered and he and TBKK flattened Yang. Wait, who wants retribution against who now? Kendrick was flapping his way around the ring like the great little douche bag he is while Zeke was just there to kick some cowboy ass. Yang got the equivalent of three punches and two dropkicks in before Zeke flattened him and then threw him around for a minute or so for the squash win. Yeah, maybe Jimmy’s NOT out of the doghouse quite yet. There was nothing really of value in this match other then the continuing story of Zeke killing bitches Kong-style while TBK acts like it’s all him. While that’s all well and good, I think there was a better way to go about it. Like, pretty much any other way.
THE GREAT KHALI vs. MVP: Wow, so much to complain about here; where would you like me to start? Let’s go with the match length and the burial of MVP. Listen, I get that he’s the guy who can’t win a match. But again I say, this works far more effectively when MVP can come oh-so-close and fail. It doesn’t do him too much damage and moves the storyline forward. Instead, they have Khali flatten MVP with about as much effort as it takes viewers to switch the channel. This was incredibly short and one-sided, and they easily could have cut Khali’s kissing earlier in the show down to one girl so that they could give these two some more time and maybe more than just a punch and kick combo for MVP. I appreciate that this helped get Khali over, but I don’t like that it came at MVP’s expenses. Thumbs seriously down.
NOTHING~!
SHOW RATING: (**¾) The Blue Show holds strong with another pretty good show. We had storyline development across the board, and while I’m not too pleased with the way they’re burying MVP, it will hopefully lead to him getting a big win at Survivor Series. If not, then I guess we’ll be subjected to MVP being a poor man for a while as he works to make ends meet on “just a regular” contract. The Jeff Hardy developments were interesting and a fresh take for him, and the main event did what needed to be done. We’re building toward Survivor Series, and if they keep things going along this level it should mean good things for the Friday night show.
Comment Time With Jeremy!
Thanks, first off, to those who pointed out that the Taker/Hardy match from the Raw flashback was for the Undisputed Title and not the Hardcore Title. Everyone makes mistakes; there’s my one for the month. I’ve mixed that one up in my head before due to all the craziness that went on in that match; I stand corrected. Thanks guys!
Love the column…. but you got the entire Mae Young match wrong. The ovation from all the divas in the ring as she made her way out and the fact they let her throw a few punches was a great send off to a lady who has spent her life wrestling. This was her final chance to get into the ring, and after her good friend Mae passed on just a few years ago, it was great to see her in there doing what she loves. And on top of it, did you notice the heat Beth got from pinning her? It was a great way to get some heel heat on their top woman performer. Of course it was a roll up! How much more damage could Mae have taken!
Posted By: Guest#8001 (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 12:45 AM
I did notice the heat that Beth got from pinning Mae, and that at least was nice; my point was that there were a lot of ways to get Mae on the show, and this was not the right one. Beth is supposed to be the dominant champ, and by having her beat Mae with a mere roll-up is something that belongs more in her boyfriend’s repertoire then hers. Obviously you’re right, you don’t want Mae to take a serious bump as she’s an 85-year-old woman, but if you can’t do it right, then don’t do it at all I say. Thanks for reading though!
Sorry, but I loved the dancing bit on RAW.
Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 05:52 AM
And it appears you’re not the only one. I get that it was mostly harmless, but with all the short matches they really had no need for such filler, even on a three-hour Raw. The several minutes this took could easily have been given to a match to help tell the story. This was the wrong way to fill time, and besides that, I never want to see Goldust bump and grind on Vintage Cole again. EVER.
You must be kidding me, Jeramy…! **¼?!
Posted By: BPN (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 09:12 AM
I don’t know…AM I? (*&&%^^%&*%^&*%^!!!
Raw was a lot of things, but spectacular wasn’t one of them. And I disagree with your tag match in the right. Kofi Kingston the current tag champ with CM Punk who he didn’t interact at all throughout the entire night, is basically treated like a jobber throughout the entire match and Kane afterwards attacks Rey and Khali of all people saves him. The last time Rey and Khali meet, Khali was trying to squash his head like a grape. So why would he save him?
Posted By: Michael (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 09:42 AM
I do see your point and I can appreciate that, Michael. Kofi should have been treated better, but he was in there against two monsters who are traditionally billed as monsters for their respective shows, and I can accept Kofi’s punking out in that respect. Per the Khali bit, it does break continuity a bit and I am pretty much the continuity Nazi, but that was long enough ago that I can believe that Khali had a change of heart. It doesn’t take believability out back and shoot it in the head, so it’s one of the things I can accept.
Jeremy Thomas’ final rating for the three-hour RAW is Ri-God Damn-Diculous.
How does he put eight items in the good, praising so much about the show. Basically every important part of the show felt important and served its purpose very well. Three of the four items that were listed less than Purgatory took up a total of 10 minutes of a 3 hours show. How does a dance off and a Diva match bring the entire show down to mere average at best? A great cage match. Great story progression with Orton in several direction. Miz and Morrison look good in a good match against D-X. All of these heavily outweigh any bit humor/eye candy bit.
Posted By: Guest#3013 (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 01:12 PM
Your opinion, Guest, and you’re welcome to it. For me, the level of filler and the shortness of all the matches combined to drag everything down. I don’t use any formula of “(X Rights + Y Purgatories) – (Z Wrongs + Q Ridiculouses) / 4” or anything like that to determine the overall show rating. Had this been a two-hour, “non-special” Raw I would have accepted it more and the rating may have been higher; as it was, it was a disappointment with the way they built it up. The Kozlov/Haas match was a waste of time, the Taker/JBL and Hardys/MVP and TBK matches drug things down, and while I enjoyed what was good, what was wrong was just too annoying for me to pass up. In the end, you have your opinion and I have mine. Thanks for reading though!
I liked the age match and Jericho winning was a huge surprise, but Michael Coledidnt seem to give a damn. I dont want to get on his back for the sake of it but the goddamn world title just changed hands and Cole’s talking like its just another match.
Posted By: Pure Dynamite (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 03:53 PM
And thus why Cole is quickly proving what people have been accusing him of for years; being the worst announcer in the business. Sure, Adamle proved us wrong for a while, but Cole’s been working hard to take the title back, and he’s almost there. Go Michael!
~TNA TURNING POINT 2008~
By: Larry Csonka
The Matches:
X-DIVISION RANKINGS MATCH/YOUNG SPEAKS: The show kicked off with the X-Division on display as TNA brought back a match they used to do in the old days, the ranking match. There were 10-guys, and if you lost first, you were ranked 10th and so on and so forth. I think that many will argue the rankings, which will always happen, but I thought this was a great opener for the show. When the X-Division is on and goes out there to do their thing they are great and we got that tonight. Everyone in the match was motivated and working hard and in the end, Eric Young won the match and is the new #1 contender for the title. Some thought my rating of ***½ was a bit low, but the ending sequence with Young and Lethal didn’t quite click and I felt brought down the match in my opinion. But the bottom line is that this was a fun and crazy opening match here and got things going very well. I was hoping that they would get at least 15-minutes, and they got more, which always helps in this kind of match. The crowd dug it, lots of guys got to look good and the new direction of Eric Young continues to take shape with the victory. Young’s post match speech, while nothing that will be up for the promo of the year was well done and was also another good kick off point for the show. They did well, and one has to wonder how this will lay at the next Impact with the Guns, Joe and AJ all losing.
TNA WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: Simply put this was a great tag match here. Like many matches on the show the key here was that they got time, and weren’t rushed at all. Even with the Guns not being used as well as they can be, when these guys get on PPV they deliver. The match was just a fun sprint, with Beer Money being the good, dick heels and the Guns being resilient and constantly fighting the good fight. The Guns are great, Beer Money is great and they clicked to have a good match that made both teams look good, and you believed that the Guns were about to finally win the titles that have managed to allude them for the last 2-years. The finish is getting played a bit, but you have to imagine that it is only a matter of time before it bites Beer Money in the ass and costs them the titles, and in that case, that is why it works so well. I also love them using the DWI (Driving While Investing *THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION*) as their finisher. Matching gear, good team work and a double team finish goes a long way to making a tag team actually BE a tag team.
FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE: In my opinion the PPV hit the top right here as Abyss and Kurt Angle went out there and busted their asses for 18-minutes in a falls count anywhere match. Quite honestly I think if they could have went without some of the slow ass crowd brawling at the beginning that it could have been even better. But the bottom line is that it delivered in my opinion. But I think it all depends on if you like this style of match. If you do you likely loved this. It was a great match that had the crowd the whole way, maybe more than any match on the show thus far. Great heat, big moves, kick outs of all the big stuff and in the end Angle survives while defeating the monster, but also Abyss isn’t hurt in the loss due to how it was booked. Abyss takes a lot of shit from people that say he can’t work a lick without the PLUNDAH, but for the most part this was very light on it. Brawling, the chair, and that’s about it. Abyss can bring it, and as I have mentioned, he and Angle have great chemistry and always seem to deliver. If you don’t like the style, then you likely didn’t dig it like myself or the live crowd did. These dudes are going to be sore as hell after this, Angle is a crazy fucker but bless him he does always try to steal the show.
Kevin Nash defeated Samoa Joe: Surprisingly this was a really good match, with a wild pace to begin things. I mean they had shit clicked into 4th gear from the get go, and I was afraid that Nash would pass out they were going so quickly. Joe was just whooping that ass until Nash managed to slam him to the steel post, two times. Nash would use clippers to remove the turnbuckle pad and in the end it took every trick in the book for Nash to SURVIVE Joe. Joe survived two powerbombs as well as being slammed to the exposed buckle anywhere from 4-6 times and they had to use the low blow on top of all of that. I will agree that the decision for Joe to lose, again, is questionable at best. But I will also say that the ending was a screw finish and Joe was made to look like a monster. I mean, he got out of two powerbombs, that’s Undertaker at WrestleMania level shit right there so that was good. The follow up will be key, and they will need to focus on the fact that Joe is continually screwed when he is obviously dominating the Main Event Mafia members as he has with Sting, Steiner and now Nash.
TNA WORLD TITLE MATCH: Amazingly enough Sting has set a record for himself in regards to holding the TNA title, so good on you Sting! I have always wanted to see Sting vs. AJ, one on one for some time. Sting is good when motivated and in there with someone that wants to go, and AJ Styles is…well, AJ Styles. They had a really good 15-minute match, unfortunately AJ decided to not take advantage of Sting after he hit the big move, he got distracted, missed the PELE and Sting used the old side roll for the victory. By doing that Sting completes the Main Event Mafia sweep in a match with great crowd heat, both guys working hard and a good match layout. Overall there was good drama here, and basically they needed to have Sting go over to not only complete the sweep, but to get the MEM over as the mega-heels that they are supposed to be. Similar to back when WWE had at least one PPV with the Evolution sweep. As always the follow up booking will be the key, they have done the easy part. They had the “veterans” go over and look like they are right. Now they have to follow it up with solid booking and in the end CLEAN and DECISIVE victories. You know, the part WCW left out…
Roxxi and Wilde defeated Awesome Kong and Riesha Saeed: The TNA Knockouts were in action in a match that was built up pretty well. After focusing on the Beautiful People and Christy Hemme so much, they has refocused on the title scene and building that, and the tag match helped do that. This was a good match from the ladies, who have been cold for a while. Wilde looked better here than she has in some time, and she gets the important rebound victory, while keeping Kong strong by not defeating her here. With Saeed taking the loss again, and the new association between Kong and Khan, like I said in the Impact R’s, you have to wonder if the Saeed character is coming to an end. In my opinion that would be great. As I said, this was a “good” match, but I felt as if it was lacking something to get it into that right category.
TNA LEGEND’S TITLE MATCH: With Scott Hall and the ICP now gone from the ringside area (but hey, good work on Hall making it to “Turning Point” for once), we moved onto the Legend’s Title Match. I think 99% of people watching knew that Booker would somehow retain the title and thusly force Cage into the Main Event Mafia. It was a given, being that he just introduced the title and the fact that the Main vent Mafia vs. Originals angle has really just begun. Now, with that being said, you have to counter predictability with a great in ring story and or a great wrestling match. We didn’t get either of those. In the end this was a very average match, not bad, but it felt slow at times and it is nothing you’ll go away from the show talking about. Booker continues to coast in the ring during his TNA tenure, and while he delivers on the mic, he leaves something to be desired in the ring. I will say that Christian in the MEM makes for interesting booking going forward and I am interested to see how that plays out. That’s if it goes anywhere at all considering that Cage may be gone soon.
GRUDGE MATCH: And this was where the PPV hit its low point. It became obvious at this point that Rhino was on the show to give him something to do, to give Bashir something to do and to give another face a win on the show. This is something that most people noticed right away. The match was just uninspired as it was a long Impact match that never got out of first gear. Bashir tried but Rhino seemed completely unmotivated in about everything he did, which is a shame because these guys aren’t bad wrestlers. Also the appearance of the ICP ad Scott Hall totally took away from the match as the crowd ended up caring about them and not the match, not that I can blame them. Hall was supposedly going to be involved in the show, but thankfully TNA thought better of that idea. This was a completely forgettable match and was the only bad part of the show in my opinion.
NONE
Overall I will go with a 8.4 out of 10 for the event and a definite recommendation to pick up the show. To put it simply, this show was full of win, as the kids say, and it made me feel like I was watching a TNA PPV from 2005. And what I mean from that is that the show felt focused and delivered a lot of good wrestling on it. Five matches clocking it at *** or over, a couple of fine matches and only one rotten tomato in the bunch makes this a very good event. With Cage having to join the Mafia, and the group getting the clean sweep they set up a lot of stuff they can do, whether they follow up with good booking or not is another question.
–ROH RESPECT IS EARNED II {8.8}
–WWE WRESTLEMANIA {8.7}
–ROH RISING ABOVE {8.6}
–ROH UNDENIABLE {8.5}
–TNA TURNING POINT {8.4}
–ROH TAKE NO PRISONERS {8.3}
–TNA LOCKDOWN {8.2}
–WWE NO WAY OUT {8.1}
–TNA BOUND FOR GLORY {8.0}
–WWE UNFORGIVEN {8.0}
–WWE ROYAL RUMBLE {8.0}
–WWE CYBER SUNDAY {7.9}
–TNA VICTORY ROAD {7.9}
–ROH NEW HORIZONS {7.8}
–TNA SLAMMIVERSARY {7.7}
–TNA HARD JUSTICE {7.6}
–WWE NO MERCY {7.5}
–TNA AGAINST ALL ODDS {7.5}
–WWE SUMMERSLAM {7.4}
–TNA NO SURRENDER {7.3}
–TNA DESTINATION X {7.2}
–WWE BACKLASH {7.0}
–WWE ONE NIGHT STAND IV {6.8}
–TNA FINAL RESOLUTION {6.75}
–WWE NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS {6.7}
–WWE GREAT AMERICAN BASH {6.1}
–WWE JUDGMENT DAY {6.0}
–TNA SACRIFICE {6.0}
–(WWE WRESTLEMANIA 24) CAREER THREATENING MATCH: Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels *****
–(WWE UNFORGIVEN) UNSANCTIONED MATCH: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****½
–(WWE SUMMERSLAM) HELL IN A CELL: Edge vs. The Undertaker ****½
–(WWE WRESTLEMANIA 24) WORLD TITLE MATCH: Edge © vs. The Undertaker ****½
–(ROH NEW HORIZONS) Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black ****½
–(ROH TAKE NO PRISONERS) ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH: Nigel McGuinness © vs. Tyler Black ****½
–(ROH RISING ABOVE) ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH: Nigel McGuinness © vs. Austin Aries ****½
–(ROH RESPECT IS EARNED II) ROH TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Age of the Fall (Jacobs and Black) © vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries ****½
–(TNA LOCKDOWN) TNA WORLD TITLE MATCH: Kurt Angle © vs. Samoa Joe ****½
–(TNA VICTORY ROAD) (World X Cup Semifinal Elimination Tag Match) Curry Man, Alex Shelly and Chris Sabin vs. Puma, Yoshino and Milano Collection AT vs. Rey Bucanero, Averno and Ultimo Guerrero vs. Williams, Dux and Kozlov ****½
–(ROH TAKE NO PRISONERS) Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ****¼
–(ROH UNDENIABLE) GRUDGE MATCH: Austin Aries vs. Roderick Strong ****¼
–(WWE NO WAY OUT) RAW ELIMINATION CHAMBER ****¼
–(WWE NO MERCY) WORLD TITLE LADDER MATCH: Chris Jericho © vs. HBK ****¼
–(TNA HARD JUSTICE) LAST MAN STANDING MATCH: Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles ****¼
–(TNA BOUND FOR GLORY) Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Jarrett ****
–(TNA TURNING POINT) FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE: Kurt Angle vs. Abyss ****
–(TNA AGAINST ALL ODDS) TNA WORLD TITLE MATCH: Kurt Angle © vs. Christian Cage ****
–(TNA FINAL RESOLUTION) TNA WORLD TITLE MATCH: Kurt Angle © vs. Christian Cage ****
–(WWE ROYAL RUMBLE) The Royal Rumble Match ****
–(WWE NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS) WWE TITLE MATCH: HHH © vs. John Cena ****
–(WWE NO MERCY) WWE TITLE MATCH: HHH © vs. Jeff Hardy ****
–(WWE CYBER SUNDAY) LAST MAN STANDING: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show ****
–(WWE ONE NIGHT STAND) TLC: The Undertaker vs. Edge ****
–(WWE GREAT AMERICAN BASH) Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels ****
–(ROH RESPECT IS EARNED II) FIGHT WITHOUT HONOR: Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****
–(ROH NEW HORIZONS) ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH: Nigel McGuinness © vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****
–(TNA TURNING POINT) TNA TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: Beer Money © vs. The Motor City Machine Guns ***¾
–(TNA No Surrender) (Ladder of Love Match) Sonjay Dutt vs. Black Machismo Jay Lethal ***¾
–(TNA VICTORY ROAD) (Full Metal Mayhem – Six-Man War Match) AJ Styles, Christian Cage & Rhino vs. Kurt Angle & Team 3D ***¾
–(TNA SLAMMIVERSARY) TNA X-DIVISION TITLE MATCH: Petey Williams © vs. Kaz ***¾
–(TNA FINAL RESOLUTION) TNA NO-DQ WOMEN’S TITLE MATCH: Gail Kim ©vs. Awesome Kong ***¾
–(TNA LOCKDOWN) LETHAL LOCKDOWN: Team Cage vs. Team Tomko ***¾
–(TNA AGAINST ALL ODDS) HARDCORE STREET FIGHT: Team 3D and Brother Devine vs. Black Machismo and the Motor City Machineguns ***¾
–(ROH UNDENIABLE) ROH WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: Jay & Mark Briscoe © vs. The No Remorse Corps ***¾
–(ROH RISING ABOVE) ROH WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH – 2 of 3 Falls: Jay & Mark Briscoe © vs. The No Remorse Corps ***¾
–(ROH RESPECT IS EARNED II) ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH: Nigel McGuinness © vs. Go Shiozaki ***¾
–(WWE CYBER SUNDAY) WWE TITLE MATCH: HHH © vs. Jeff Hardy ***¾
–(WWE NO WAY OUT) SMACKDOWN ELIMINATION CHAMBER ***¾
–(WWE WRESTLEMANIA 24) WWE TITLE MATCH: Randy Orton © vs. John Cena vs. HHH ***¾
–(WWE BACKLASH) WORLD TITLE MATCH: The Undertaker © vs. Edge ***¾
–(WWE WRESTLEMANIA 24) MONEY IN THE BANK LADDER MATCH: Chris Jericho vs. MVP vs. John Morrison vs. Carlito vs. CM Punk vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Shelton Benjamin ***¾
–(WWE JUDGMENT DAY) HBK vs. Chris Jericho ***¾
–(WWE SUMMERSLAM) John Cena vs. Batista ***¾
This is a little added deal I started last year, as I feel that there are some other things that should be mentioned from the PPV’s. Not every PPV will have one, it just depends on who I think steps up and deserves some extra recognition.
–ROH RISING ABOVE: Nigel vs. Aries (Stealing the Show)
–TNA FINAL RESOLUTION: Gail Kim vs. Awesome Kong (Making us Care about Women’s Wrestling on the National Stage)
–ROH UNDENIABLE: Strong vs. Aries (The Grudge is Settled)
–WWE ROYAL RUMBLE: John Cena Shocks the World (No One Saw it Coming)
–TNA AGAINST ALL ODDS: Black Machismo Saves the X-Division (He is a Superman)
–WWE NO WAY OUT: Taker Eliminates the Competition (Elimination Chamber MVP)
–TNA DESTINATION X: Gail Kim vs. Awesome Kong © vs. ODB (Stepping up Again)
–WWE WRESTLEMANIA XXIV: Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels (Thank You Flair)
–TNA LOCKDOWN: Angle vs. Joe (Great Build, Great Delivery)
–TNA SACRIFICE: Roxxi gets a Haircut (And makes the ultimate sacrifice…)
–ROH TAKE NO PRISONERS: Tyler Black (Becoming a Star at 21)
–WWE ONE NIGHT STAND: The Undertaker (You Crazy Fuck)
–TNA SLAMMIVERSARY: Kaz vs. Petey (Stealing the Show)
–WWE NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS: HHH (Silencing the Critics)
–TNA VICTORY ROAD: Alex Shelley and Yoshino (Stealing the Show)
–WWE GREAT AMERICAN BASH: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (The Art of the Story)
–ROH RESPECT IS EARNED II: Tyler Black (Stealing the Spotlight …Again)
–TNA HARD JUSTICE: AJ Styles and Kurt Angle (Last Man Standing)
–WWE SUMMERSLAM: Hell in a Cell (Edge and Taker do it again!)
–WWE UNFORGIVEN: Unsanctioned (Jericho and Michaels Deliver Again)
–TNA NO SURRENDER: Sonjay Dutt and Jay Lethal (Making Chicken Cordon Bleu out of Chicken Shit)
–ROH NEW HORIZONS: Tyler Black and Bryan Danielson (Just Doing What They Do Best)
–WWE NO MERCY: HHH, HBK, Jericho and Hardy (Hey ROH New Horizons, Great Idea, Double Main Event Delivery)
–TNA BOUND FOR GLORY: Angle vs. Jarrett (You Don’t Want Any Part of This Pain…)
–WWE CYBER SUNDAY: The Undertaker and The Big Show (The Big Guys Can Go)
–TNA TURNING POINT: Angle vs. Abyss (They’re Going to be Sore in the Morning…)
And I’m out of here!
