411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction: Was Jon Moxley’s Heel Turn Better Than Roman Reigns’ Babyface Turn?

Welcome back to the 411mania Wrestling Fact or Fiction. I’m your host Jake Chambers.

This week we’re back for the second match up in the first round of our semi-annual Larry Csonka Memorial Wrestling Fact or Fiction Tournament. Today we have the returning two-time finalist from 2022 and 2023 – the third time could be the charm for reviewer en masse Thomas Hall. But first he’ll need to defeat first-time participant, AEW PPV previewer and weekly Dynamite reviewer Ryan Ciocco.

Be sure to look for the poll at the end of this article to vote for who you think did the best job responding to the statements this week!

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

Statement #1: Jon Moxley’s heel turn has been better than Roman Reigns’ face turn.

Thomas Hall: FICTION – Maybe I’m in the minority here but I have no interest in Moxley’s latest “I’m all tough and bad and violent and you’re all horrible and not tough so…..” and then I tend to stop paying attention to whatever he’s going on about. Having the Blackpool Combat Club running around in their matching shirts (well save for Pac of course) and beating up the Dark Order isn’t interesting in the slightest. Reigns’ return hasn’t exactly been great, but I want to see where it is going, and that is more than enough to give it the nod here.

Ryan Ciocco: FICTION – By saying FICTION, I am in no way shape or form slighting the heel turn for Jon and then, by extension, the inevitable heel turn for the rest of the BCC (or whatever we’re supposed to be calling them now). However, I am saying FICTION because, simply put, there were chants for Roman from the WWE fans when he wasn’t around. Segments around and, eventually, directly involving Reigns had the fans chanting “WE WANT ROMAN” until he finally made his return to the company.

Make no mistake about it, however, that Moxley fully embracing the heel life via a plastic bag assassination attempt of one Bryan Danielson does give this turn a lot of promise, but the result remains to be seen. I don’t think that we need to speculate that, not only was bringing back Reigns as a babyface necessary, but it has worked so far, and the fans have been here for it.

Statement #2: You believe WWE Chief Content Officer Paul “HHH” Levesque when he says that he doesn’t see color/race when it comes to wrestlers who work for him.

Thomas Hall: FACT – I’m going to assume this is due to the lack of Black men having singles matches on Premium Live Events in however many months it has been. While that is certainly something that needs to be addressed, it doesn’t feel like something WWE set out to do. Odds are it was just an accident that happened by chance, as the only color that should matter is green, as in the money that a wrestler can bring in. Not having any Black wrestlers performing in singles matches isn’t good, but I don’t think it is something that WWE set out to do. It is also something that can be easily fixed, and hopefully WWE does so soon.

Ryan Ciocco: FACT – I mean, it is understandable if people were to doubt him because of, well, you know, that whole deal with Booker T back in 2003 leading into WrestleMania 19. But people grow up, people get more responsibility, and people tend to mature with more understanding of things that may be right or wrong.

When you look at the changes that have been for the positive since Paul took over for his Father-In-Law, its hard to detect any overt bias or possible racism from Paul. I know this question stems from something that was asked of him, and he gave a pretty wishy-washy answer to it. But, no, until he does something so heinous, or something so deplorable, I have no reason to not believe him. Remember, though, actions speak louder than words.

Statement #3:  The Ospreay-Ricochet-Takeshita match from AEW WrestleDream is one of the great triple threats of all time.

Thomas Hall: FICTION – If “Maybe, We’ll See” was an option, that would be the right way to go here. The match took place less than a month ago so I have no idea how high to rank it all time. I certainly liked it, but will it hold up a month from now? A year perhaps? It very well could, but I’d call it FAR too early to know if it’s one of the greatest ever. That covers a lot of ground and part of that ground is covered by how well it holds up over time, which it hasn’t had yet.

Ryan Ciocco: FACT – Going into the show, this match here was the one that I was looking forward to the most on the card, just for the talent of the three men alone. The title change was great, but it felt secondary when you tabulated the talent involved in it. Will Ospreay is one of the best in the game right now, Ricochet is as dependable as the summer day is long, and Takeshita has grown leaps and bounds into a major player within AEW. In fact, I dare say that this match could potentially be a MOTY candidate for AEW.

It probably does help that the question isn’t “this match IS the greatest triple threat match of all time” and rather “This match is ONE of the greatest triple threat matches of all time”, because without really doing the hardline research, I am sure there could be an open debate over which one is the best.

¡SWITCH!

Statement #4: MJF will be AEW Champion again before either Swerve Strickland or Hangman Adam Page.

Ryan Ciocco: FICTION – This is a tough one to call, because honestly, given the state of the AEW World Title and how it is has been kept under lock and key by Moxley and his group, it really does make you wonder just who is going to be the one to defeat him and take the title, much less if it is going to be one of the three men mentioned in this question.

But let’s say for the sake of arguing that, given the landscape as it exists within AEW right now, it would seem perfectly plausible to me for Strickland to win his title back by being the one to defeat Moxley for it. That means that, no, Maxwell would not win it before Strickland or Page. Speaking of Hangman, who knows what direction they want to take Page in on any given episode of Dynamite or Collision. Furthermore, because both MJF and Page are heels right now, it wouldn’t make sense for either of them to take the title from Moxley, so all of this to say, no, Strickland would probably be first out of the three men in question.

Thomas Hall: FACT – This is a case of talent rising to the top. While Swerve and Page are both stars, MJF has felt like a bigger deal than either of them and that is something that will take him a long way. Unless his acting career takes him away from television, MJF feels like he is a lot more ready to move back into the title picture. That is rather frustrating as Swerve only lost the title a few months ago and has made no mention of wanting it back, but MJF seems to need to be champion more than either of them. I’ll say MJF is the best pick, but it’s not a runaway.

Statement #5: If Zack Sabre Jr. had remained in WWE the whole time following the Cruiserweight Classic, he would have become World/Universal champion by now.

Ryan Ciocco: FICTION – While it is fun to speculate on this given the fact that ZSJ just won the IWGP World Heavyweight Title, I must admit that it is something that I never once thought about, but it is slightly disappointing that he didn’t stay with the company much longer after the tourney ended. Be that as it may, he more than made a name for himself elsewhere, namely in New Japan of course, and all things really worked out for him.

However, if he had stayed within the company up to this point, I think that he would not have been World or Universal Champion. Cruiserweight Champion, of course. IC or US Champion, absolutely. Tag Team Champion, with the right partner, I agree. But the man at the top, probably not. And again, that is not a slight on where ZSJ was at that point, but the nature of the WWE business.

Thomas Hall: FICTION – I’ll go with FICTION here as I just can’t picture it happening. Sabre Jr. is an incredible talent and someone who can have a good match with anyone, but I’m not sure if he has that kind of a ceiling in WWE. I’m sure he would have had a heck of a career in WWE and certainly would have won something, but he fits in rather well with the New Japan style and that has had hit and miss results in WWE. Sabre would have had a good career, but it wouldn’t have gone that far, which means that he would be in rather strong company, as a lot of stars have never won the big one in WWE.

Statement #6: WWE TV should no longer be considered a pro-wrestling show since the content now is mostly promos, vignettes, entrances and matches interrupted by commercial breaks.

Ryan Ciocco: FACT – I was of the understanding that it had not been considered a pro-wrestling show for many years now, going back as far as 2002, when the company had to legally change its name from World Wrestling Federation to World Wrestling Entertainment. Even with Paul having taken over from Vince when he was forced to “retire”, there hasn’t been much that I have seen or heard to indicate that change of ideology back to pro-wrestling over being an entertainment based product.

And you know what? Why change that now. The WWE is what it is, it knows what their fans want, and they deliver a lot of good stuff. Do they miss on some things? Of course, every company has their fair share of duds. But WWE has embraced that E in their name, and I say, good for them.

Thomas Hall: FICTION – Jim Cornette and Kevin Dunn were in a meeting once when the following (paraphrased) exchange took place (at least according to Cornette).

Cornette: “It’s a wrestling show!”

Dunn: “You know Jim, I find you tiresome. I don’t know why you think we’re wrestling when we have people in wrestling boots and wrestling tights having wrestling matches. We’re not wrestling.”

Cornette is right, for the simple reason of… well if it isn’t a wrestling show, what else is it? There might not be as much wrestling as there was before, but there are wrestlers who hare having wrestling matches. There has always been a bunch of talking in wrestling, but at the end of the day, it is still a wrestling show by definition. Wrestling has evolved several times over the years and it will continue to do so for years to come. Right now, there is more of a focus on interactions between the wrestlers with the major matches being saved for the more important events. That doesn’t make it any less of a wrestling show.

Two great performances today, but who will move on to this year’s Larry Csonka Memorial Wrestling Fact or Fiction Tournament finals? Exercise your right to vote in the poll below!

Good luck and thanks to Ryan Ciocco and Thomas Hall for participating this week.

You can find all of Thomas’s reviews here, of course, or at his website along with a more updates and a giant archive – check it out: https://kbwrestlingreviews.com/

And you can also look for Ryan’s new music reviews as he spices up 411’s Music Zone these days – check out his first one for the new MC5 album here: https://411mania.com/music/mc5-heavy-lifting-review/

And the GoFundMe for Larry’s daughters is still active, please follow the link for more details: https://www.gofundme.com/f/larrymania-living-on-in-his-girls