411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction: Is CM Punk vs. Roman Reigns a Dud Main Event For WrestleMania?

Welcome back to the 411mania Wrestling Fact or Fiction. I’m your host Jake Chambers.

There has been an amazing new columnist at 411 who I have been reading with great joy. They write big meaty columns on a weekly basis, and sometimes more. This has reminded me of the old days, before there was so much live wrestling and we had more time for long-form writing on wrestling topics both past and present. That’s what I’ve loved about 411 for decades, and why I’m happy to see any new Hel Stryer column pop up!

So I had to invite them on FoF for the column’s return from hiatus, and I was not disappointed. So let’s not waste any more time and get right to the action!

Statement #1: CM Punk vs. Roman Reigns is a dud Wrestlemania main event.

Hel Stryer: FICTION – Despite my desire to get Finn Balor involved in this, Punk vs Reigns is one of the biggest matches not done to death yet. The promos have also been fire, and I’ve been enjoying the build. Honestly, I am looking forward to this more than Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton. Mainly because they had been building a multi-man match for months on SmackDown, and as of now, we are getting this instead. 

That isn’t to say it won’t be good, but I think the build for Punk and Reigns has been better. It has delivered from a promo aspect, and it should have no problem delivering from an in-ring aspect. The story makes sense as well, in kayfabe, Punk is responsible for getting Reigns into the WWE. And while they’ve been allies against common enemies, they’ve never been eye-to-eye or friendly. 

Reigns dipping back into his Tribal Chief gimmick also works for this. It would be a hard sell to get the fans to boo Punk, so let Roman play the heel here. It also adds the looming threat of the Usos and who Punk might find as backup. 

Even removing the history, Reigns represents the corporate ideal, while Punk represents the everyman. This kind of story has sold tickets and views for as long as wrestling has been a work. I’m looking forward to the match and think it’s worthy of main event-ing. 

Jake Chambers: FACT – Sorry, Hel, but I’ve got to disagree. You are making some good points as to why this would be a solid main event, but to me, this is a big dud right now.

We are just not getting of the proper version of these two characters. Punk as this happy, audience-pandering corporate champion, is not the scheming, shit-talking, smart-ass that made him famous. And this is not the maniacal gang leader Bloodline Roman that put his career into the upper echelon either. What we’ve seen in the repetitive promo battles between these two so far has been a mild version of the great characters that reside below the surface.

And there’s no real storyline here. Punk is just the champion and Roman won the Rumble. There are these minor beats of history between them, but it’s not “story”, just convenience. You can’t compare this to some of Roman’s top feuds against Cody, Jey or Sami, nor any of Punk’s best rivalries of the past with Cena, Jeff Hardy or MJF.

On top of that, Punk is still not a proper Wrestlemania main event-er. Being in one Wrestlemania Saturday main event is not it. Especially since he is going in as champion, that makes it especially backwards. It makes sense for a defending champion to take on a Rumble winner in their first proper Wrestlemania main event, not the other way around. And that would have been the much better way to go, since Roman has killed it as a hard-to-beat champion and Punk has always been best as an outlier winning against all odds.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this gets bumped to Saturday, for real, now that Orton, a real main event-er, has been moved in challenge Cody, who had that spot 3 years in a row.

Statement #2: There is too much product placement in the WWE and it makes you want to stop watching.

Hel Stryer: FICTION – I’m going to expand this to cover every wrestling company. There is a level of too much product placement. When it just completely takes away from the actual product. As of now, we still get multiple matches and promos per show and PLE. That is not too much. I don’t really even register the mat having sponsorships on it. And how is that any different than boxing or MMA events? 

We’ve had the “This match” or “…Slam of the Night” sponsorships going back as far as I can remember (early ’90s). AEW has had matches for sponsors. The sad fact is, these companies are businesses, and sponsorships help to pay the bills. Could it be toned down? For sure, we don’t need a Texas Chainsaw match or a Mountain Dew Dark match.

And at the current weekly show level, I don’t think it’s gotten so bad that we can say it’s too much. The only thing I’ve seen that I thought was too much was the Clash Royal entrance gear from WrestleMania. But that is a few minutes out of the entire event. When Drew McIntyre comes out with Glenn Fidditch on his tights every week, maybe we can talk.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – Unlike Hel, I do think there is currently way too much. This is not what WWE was like going back to the early ‘90s. Of course, there has always been sponsorships, but never the amount of ads literally on the mat, turnbuckles, apron, barricades and arena screens at one time that we are getting now. And maybe Drew doesn’t have something on his tights every week, but Dom has Dude Wipes on there now. So, it’s only a matter of time before every wrestler is doing it.

It looks tacky in boxing and MMA, and that’s why WWE never doing this before the Endeavour sale was a point of pride. We didn’t have to see Ric Flair kiss a gross Riyadh Season ad on the mat in his retirement match like we did John Cena. It’s embarrassing. And when I hear people say they don’t even notice it, like Hel did, I can respect that, sure, but this is exactly what advertising is trying to do. It’s not a secret. They want to subliminally plant these things in your head and hope to hell you don’t notice it. I’m not saying Hel is not hypnotically going to be calling up Morgan & Morgan tomorrow to start some insurance lawsuit, but somebody is going to, no?

Anyways, the point is, this should have been enough for me to call it quits. This is supposed to be about wrestlers fighting, that’s all I really want to see. But, I endure. My addiction to pro-wrestling, in particular the WWE, won’t let me stop. I just hope in a couple of years at Cricket Wrestlemania when I’m watching Dude Wipes Dom vs. Seth “ for the Truth Social Championship, that I’ve stopped noticing too.

Statement #3: Too many WWE promos end with someone emphatically using the word “Bitch!”

Hel Stryer: FICTION – It gets a pop from the crowd, and at the end of the day, cheap or not, it’s a pop. It doesn’t seem to have hit diminishing returns yet. So, why not keep using it? In the WWE, profanity hasn’t been used as much as in times past. So, now it gets a reaction when it’s pulled out. Just like blood. When it’s used all the time, then it loses its meaning. If people are actually complaining about this. Then they are really reaching for reasons to crap on the WWE. 

Jake Chambers: FACT – Oh, I think this is a legit problem. It’s got nothing to do with anything offensive about the language (although, hadn’t we – and the WWE – moved on from using “bitch” to mean “not a cool man because you’re like a weak woman” long ago, strange that that’s re-emerged all of a sudden…), it’s the complete lack of creativity. Saying “bitch” with a mic drop at the end of your promo is about as corny now in the WWE as breaking the announce table, or spearing someone through the barricade. I’ll admit these things get pops, but like, there was a time when WWE tried way harder. Just pandering to the dumbest and easiest reactions you can get from the crowd is further demonstration of the WWE’s current corporate hegemonic mentality.

¡SWITCH!

Statement #4: AEW PPVs have too much wrestling.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – When WWE changed the PPV moniker to PLE, it was more than a cosmetic naming. It was part of a long-term strategy to devalue the PPV concept. They didn’t want us to think of these as big, commercial-free events filled with wrestling matches. They wanted it to become just part of the churn. I mean, you’re likely getting more in-ring wrestling on a TV episode now than you are a WWE PLE. Aren’t we wrestling fans? Didn’t we all come here to read about wrestling? Maybe if it were filled with creative storytelling and funny bits, then that might be something, but instead, PLEs are mostly entrances, commercials, and crowds chanting stuff.

I realize this is a long way to go to say, “AEW PPVs do not have too much wrestling,” but I do this under protest of the WWE’s anti-wrestling PLE-apocalypse. AEW is filling their big events with big matches. Long matches. Epic matches. One and then another, and then another… It’s exhausting. And it’s awesome. It feels like a show made for people who can’t get enough wrestling. I’m one of those people. Make those PPVs longer, AEW. LONGER!

Hel Stryer: FACT – I don’t hold my co-writers’ strong opinions regarding the PPV to PLE swap. It was a branding move because they were no longer using the PPV method. It’s why we don’t call streaming watching a DVD. They are using a different method for broadcasting, and you aren’t paying per view anymore. 

I also disagree that a PLE has less wrestling than an average episode of Raw or SmackDown. In fact, I looked up the numbers, Elimination Chamber had 85ish minutes of in-ring action, across a three-hour show. Outside of that, we had the Danhuasen reveal and several backstage segments. Over the last four Raw and SmackDowns, the average in-ring action has ranged from 57-71 minutes for SmackDown and 38-52 minutes for Raw.

Now, since Chambers decided to bring the WWE into this discussion. I remember everyone hating and complaining about the marathon WrestleManias. So, why does AEW get a pass here? 

There is a sweet spot for the length of anything. Fan burnout is real; you are either getting a crowd that is saving their energy for the main event. Which means you are getting silence during the lower card, or a crowd that is spent by the main event, and doesn’t make noise for it. The max time for watching pretty much anything is four hours. Anything after that, and you are risking burnout and fans tuning out. 

Maybe in my teens and early 20s, I could see enjoying a 5+ hour-long show, but at 39? Nah, I’m good. I have other things I also enjoy doing or have to do. There is the element that AEW fans are paying a larger amount of money for these shows, and so you want to ensure they get the maximum amount of entertainment. But again, there has to be a limit.

Statement #5: NXT still has the best women’s division in pro-wrestling (as they once claimed).

Jake Chambers: FACT – While maybe they don’t have the hottest names in the biz, I do believe the actual division is still strongest, at least in North American mixed-gender companies. Every week I see a nice logical hierarchy between the top stars down to the North American champ and Speed title levels. The in-ring continues to be aggressive and creative, just as it was in previous years. That hasn’t changed. It’s just a nice, reliable part of the regular NXT presentation.

On the other hand, the main WWE roster is just a mess. For example, when I see IYO SKY and Asuka, former A-level champions fresh off the Elimination Chamber, simply dropping down to compete in a gauntlet match for a shot at the B-level Intercontinental Title, I gotta scratch my head. Women are jumping from show to show with no explanation, singles stars in tag teams, semi-retired wrestlers as champions, absences and injuries, and inconsistencies. On top of that, you go from WarGames to the Royal Rumble match to the Elimination Chamber, and it’s just one dumb punch-punch-punch gimmick-fest after another. The in-ring is dull and forgettable. Next! AEW, I mean, let’s be real, that’s a C-level division being propped up by a few more famous names. And, well, TNA… lol, the federation’s name alone is an insult to women. NXT continues to hold the crown as pro-wrestling’s best women’s division, in my opinion.

Hel Stryer: FACT – NXT has had the best US women’s division for years. In fact, outside of Women’s only promotion, I can’t think of another company that has a women’s division on their level. The Main Roster would be the next in line, though. 

As Chambers said, there is a clear top-to-bottom ranking, and stuff makes sense. They are also putting on great matches every week, which far outshine the NXT Men’s division.

I will take a moment to disagree that the main roster isn’t good. Yes, we have A-Level talent competing for the Intercontinental Championship. But to say that is a B-Level belt is ridiculous. Since Becky started feuding with Lyra for the belt, it elevated it to A1. Becky is one of the best women’s wrestlers of all time and a former multi-time World Champion. It’s not like the Women’s United States Championship, which has floundered under Road Dogg’s booking.

Having women like Asuka, IYO, Ripley, Flair, and Bliss competing for the Intercontinental and Tag Team Championships helps to elevate them. It doesn’t hurt the popularity of the wrestlers involved. It’s using their popularity to raise the level of the belt. 

The women showing up on different shows usually have reasons. Usually, it’s tied to the Tag Team Championships, or it’s to further a feud. Is the men’s division laughable because Cody shows up on Raw sometimes to further a story? I think you are grasping at straws to take shots at the WWE.

And TNA, initials or not, has a long history of a strong women’s division. Is it at the same level currently? No, but they are in a severe rebuilding stage, not just for the Knockouts, but the entire company.

Statement #6: Gunther making “Never Give Up” John Cena give up in his final wrestling match was a giant mistake.

Jake Chambers: FACT – Had they stuck with the evil Cena storyline of him ruining the legacy of WWE’s title by winning his final match and taking it home, that might have been interesting for Gunther. Instead of being a moderately hated but enormously respected tweener, they could have used this opportunity to turn Gunther into a massive babyface. If he were the one to stop evil Cena that would have cemented a killer face-turn for Gunther. And it would have made perfect sense for the wrestler who believes the ring is sacred to want the title legacy respected, as well.

But, as usual in the “Paul Levesque Era” (yes, I’m still using that), the WWE went in the most uninteresting direction possible, ruined a once in a lifetime match, tarnished the end of a legendary career, and got nothing out of it for Gunther but a gimmick that keeps him spinning his wheels in the same ditch he’s been stuck in for years.

Hel Stryer: FICTION – I could just say that this is how Cena wanted to go out, and leave it at that. But I want to give an actual explanation here. Gunther has been built as a monster heel. He is the new final boss in the WWE. Ending Cena’s career by making him tap out was exactly the right call. I do wish they hadn’t milked it for so long. But that tap out just further solidified Gunther as the monster to slay.

Cena winning would do nothing for Gunther, him winning was the right call. It does nothing for Cena to go out on his back. That is the time-honored tradition. Did it hurt Shawn Michaels to go out on his back? Flair? (We are ignoring their ill-advised comeback matches.) No, it didn’t. This loss doesn’t tarnish Cena at all. 

Also, Gunther doesn’t need to be a face right now. As I said, he is the final boss of the roster. He has 15 losses total since he started with the WWE. And has been protected in most of those. So, no, this wasn’t a giant mistake. It wasn’t a mistake at all. It made the most sense, and sometimes the safe and logical choice is the right choice. 

Big thanks to Hel Stryer for joining me this week. Fantastic stuff and I hope to have her back soon!

You can look for Hel’s columns regularly here at 411mania, including the always awesome The Great Eight, like this one ranking the best Wrestlemanias – https://411mania.com/wrestling/the-great-eight-top-8-wrestlemanias/

We’ll see you next time for the start of the semi-annual Larry Csonka Memorial Wrestling Fact or Fiction Tournament. Until then, enjoy the Road to Wrestlemania… if you can!