Five-Star Conversation 06.22.10: Bryan Danielson, Kaval, Chris Benoit, Drew McIntyre & MORE

Here’s a little something to consider, fella – If Chris Benoit had killed Nancy and Daniel with a poipe, Bryan Danielson would still have a job and Sheamus would be accepting independent bookings instead of being The WWE Champion.

The problem I have with Drew McIntyre is that he’s continuously being shoved down our throats as “The Chosen One” but he’s extremely boring yet keeps getting shoved down our throats in the wrong way. Someone like Sheamus came out and proved why he was a future star by destroying people. Now whenever McIntyre loses a match, he comes back with Vinnie Mac’s approval to act as if something NEVER happened. In the case of Jericho winning the WWF Title from HHH, at least Triple H had a point with the fast count, but McIntyre’s just getting losses removed and titles handed to him just because. It’s like foreign dictators who use their power to kill anyone who defies them in order to stay in power. All McIntyre is doing is losing like the boring piece of crap he is but coming back higher because of McMahon. If he actually won matches and improved to the point where his matches and promos are less boring than his entrance then MAYBE I could see him as a mid carder.

Drew McIntyre does not deserve to be a main eventer period. Kofi Kingston, Christian, R-Truth, The Miz, John Morrison, and Dolph Ziggler work their asses off and were all green at once but became great talent, but where are they now? They’re all stuck in the mid-card. McIntyre doesn’t deserve a free pass to stop trying just because Vince loves him. X-Pac heat is bad no matter how you see it. You should be hated for giving the fans a reason to hate you. That’s what CM Punk does; that’s what Chris Jericho does; that’s what The Miz does; hell even Cena does that since his intention is to get a reaction from the crowd. McIntyre is booed because he’s BORING and not enjoyable. He reminds me of Crush in that he’s monotonously slow and can’t wrestle yet somehow lasted way too long the business. What does McMahon even see in him? He’s not big, he can’t wrestle, he’s not that good of a talker, the fans HATE him; all he is is Scottish… I read that he’s apparently losing credibility in the back and his push may be halted a bit and I could not be any happier about that. Now get rid of Michelle McCool and Smackdown would be closer to being as enjoyable as last summer.
Posted By: SHADE

I have to agree with you here, SHADE. Someone else, I think it was KanyonKreist, suggested not to think in such a linear fashion when considering the means by which to create a heel, to make fans hate him, and, although I agree with that line of thinking, I have to say that, in this particular instance, at least, that line of thinking doesn’t hold up for just the same reasons you give in the first paragraph. However, I think it’s important to recall in McIntyre’s case, as I’ve mentioned here in the past, not to discount him because his style of performance confounds what our expectations of him might be. Despite looking like a grappler in his FCW-issued trunks and with his pretty-boy looks, he’s a brawler, and a brawler isn’t going to be as dynamic a performer as, say, a Randy Orton. Lest we forget, Orton went through a period in his development where he was peppered with “Boring” chants, as well. Remember the sign in the front row on Raw – “ANOTHER headlock, Randy…?!”

In terms of McIntyre’s push, it seemed for awhile there that what we saw on-screen was mirroring backstage sentiments, that he really was The Chosen One in Vince’s eyes. It was heavily rumored that this push was supposed to have taken him all the way to The World Title, but, as you said, faith in him has been shaken and he’s being used as a means of getting Kofi Kingston over as well as re-energizing Matt Hardy instead.

We’ve discussed here in the recent past how poorly McMahonagement has botched his build, as well, running three simultaneous angles that should have been spread out, thus becoming much more simple and linear, as opposed to the muddled, watered-down mess we got when his undefeated streak, UST run and qualifying for $itB ran over one another and ended up meaning nothing as a consequence. Perhaps if Creative had taken its’ time and allowed his character to develop in this manner, he might have been genuinely hated enough such that he’d have warranted what should be a spectacular heels entrance instead of giving time for the fans to tune out before he even hits the stage. In the gap between his music hitting and his emerging from backstage, you can practically hear the whole crowd collectively rolling its’ eyes and asking their friend, “Hey, you get the beer, I gotta hit the can.”

Furthermore in this vein, does it seem to anyone else that this Chosen One mandate from Vince himself might carry a little more gravity if Vince actually made an appearance with McIntyre once in awhile, instead of sending him out with a note each week? It makes McIntyre look like kind of a joke, the equivalent of WWE’s answer to Juan Epstein (all you old folks will get that one).

You know what the most obvious example that Michael Cole has “parrot syndrome” is? His commentary with Tazz on Chris Benoit’s DVD set. They cover Benoit’s matches with Liger, Black Tiger (Guerrero) and The Great Sasuke, so they can have an English Commentary Track. And in that, he’s asking relevant questions, making jokes that are actually funny (“I believe everyone else is kneeling but Malenko is standing up!”) and is *gasp* engaging! He’s not playing his character, he’s just being himself.

Of course, half the wrestling community doesn’t believe that DVD ever existed, so there really isn’t an argument any more, I guess.

My point is that if Michael is just himself (which to an extent he was on NXT, before that became a gimmick as well), he would actually not be the biggest embarrassment to the commentary booth.

I’d also like to point out that he isn’t the worst announcer ever in the WWF/E. I could probably make a top 10 list of guys who are worse than Cole.
Posted By: Fire Lord Hubbard

You make a great point, Hubbard, with respect to how much better Cole is when he’s not got Vince’s hand stuffed up his ass like one of Jeff Dunham’s puppets, although I think the single greatest example of Cole having announcers in the Gorilla position being piped into his cans, in this case, Jim Ross, was the night he was calling the main event sometime back around 2003-ish, I believe it was, when he actually began mimicking JR’s Oklahoma drawl on the air! Cole actually was parroting Ross so completely he adopted a Southern accent! Had it not been so sad, I’d have laughed myself silly.

There was also the period of SmackDown! when he was obviously being distracted by someone yelling at him in his headset, because Tazz would be trying to carry on a conversation with him to make the commentary, you know, flow and seem natural. He’d pose a question to Cole only to be ignored in favor of espousing one of his Cole-isms like “battle back” or “So-&-so is ROLLING!”. In this instance, I empathize with Cole.

People had a ball poking fun at Mick Foley for leaving WWE because Vince was yelling at him, telling him how to announce while he was trying to do it, but I think we all have been in a similar such situation at one point or another, where some loudmouthed autocratic prick boss is leaning over you barking orders about how you’re supposed to be behaving while you know damn well what you’re doing, but are getting yelled at nonetheless because you need to do it the way said prick thinks you should. Vince has no one nut himself to thank for robbing us of what could have been a great commentary team in that instance and I don’t blame Foley one bit; as I said here at 411Mania at the time, if Vince wants to keep this team in tact, he needs to keep Foley happy, because, at this point, WWE needs Foley a hell of a lot more than Foley needs WWE, and he proved me right (what he’s done since then is another story).

Back to Cole, though, honestly, I really do respect his work ethic, because anyone who talks about him always seems to mention how hard he works and how dedicated he is to his craft. But isn’t it sad when someone can allegedly work so hard to achieve such corporate-mandated mediocrity because the boss needs to poison the proverbial garden to make his own commentating short-comings valid in his own mind?

To that end…

Here’s the thing with Michael Cole: People hate Michael Cole when the real problem is Vince McMahon.

If you listen to Michael Cole when he first started doing commentary, he wasn’t that bad. He wasn’t nearly as good as JR, but he was serviceable. He got excited at the right moments, he made good points that were relevant to the storyline and he even made sure to mention the name of all the wrestlers signature moves (something that even the great JR would frequently forget).

Over time though, as Vince became more and more obsessed with having a more “youthful” play-by-play guy and push JR out the announce booth, Cole was his go-to-guy. As a result, he started pounding into Cole’s head what he should do (rarely mention the names of wrestling moves, repeat the same things constantly, have a catchphrase that you say in EVERY match, pimp the company line as much as possible, etc).

If you listen to Cole’s commentary today and compare it to Vince’s in the early 90’s, it’s practically a carbon copy. Because that is how Vince thinks a commentator should speak. He feels that the commentary should be dumbed down to the lowest level possible so that the product is accessible to everybody.

So people who hate Michael Cole with a vengeance really don’t make much sense since Vince is the one pulling the strings. Cole is just doing what his boss tells him to do. The same thing that many of us do everyday. If your boss tells you to type out an expense report, you type it out. If Vince tells Cole to refer to RAW as “TV’s longest running weekly episodic show” at least 10 times an episode, that’s what Cole is going to do.

I’ve enjoyed this angle with Daniel Bryan because the WWE is finally letting Cole display a bit of personality. I hope that Vince sees how the crowd is responding positively to this angle and he allows Cole to display more personality in his commentary. It will be a shame if after this angle, Vince makes Cole go back to his usual boring schtick on Monday nights.

Bottom line: Give Cole a break. The man is just doing his job and doing as he is told. If you want to blame somebody, blame Vince.
Posted By: Monty

If you look at the DB vs Cole clip and imagine Cole in a powder blue suit – how much would he look like Vince circa 1991? A flipping lot. That’s symptomatic of Cole’s problem: he’s not a poor man’s JR, he’s a poor man’s VKM.
Posted By: Alec

The whole Chris Benoit thing is still a touchy subject. I think IN MY OWN OPINION that we should never talk about what Benoit did outside of the ring before he became a wrestler, while he was a wrestler, and on that fateful day. I think WWE should give the respect that the people who faced Benoit and show how awesome they are when they are in the ring with someone like Benoit.

I was and still am a huge Benoit fan, no one knows what happened that weekend, and I feel that the in ring performer that was Chris Benoit should be remembered for how awesome he was.

I just hope we never have to talk about another wrestler going down the deep end like he did.

Now with Michael Cole, I think he’s out lived his welcome a long time ago, he’s better then some of the commentators that JCP had back in the 80’s but when we compare him to Jim Ross, or Solie, or even TAZZ he’s no where near where he should be. If he’s being fed lines then he should give them his own spin, not just say back whatever is being told to him. Wrestling fans of the past 15 years have gotten spoiled by the awesomeness of JR and the team of Gorilla and Heenan, or Gorilla and Ventura. I think that if the commentators were allowed to just call a match on their own we might not get every thing that Vince wants us to get from the match but it would allow the fans to feel the passion that Cole, Lawler, Striker, and Matthews have about the sport. It only takes a couple times to try it out to see if it flies or not.

I still think in my opinion that Cole was never better then when DX was beating him up every week, he was gold in the first DX DVD. I have nothing personally against Cole I just think he’s making himself to be a parody of a wrestling announcer
Posted By: Eric D

You both absolutely hit the nail on the head with your Vince/Cole comparisons. I think the crucial difference between Cole and Ross and why Vince didn’t attempt to mold Ross in his likeness is because Ross already had an effective method of calling a match that worked, especially once the special symbiosis Ross and Jerry Lawler were able to create after Vince left the commentators’ desk to become “Mr. McMahon”. Of course, that doesn’t mean he didn’t assign Ross a toga on his first day on the job, or seemingly snicker behind his hand when he branded Ross a hick by issuing him a cowboy hat and dubbing him “Good Ol’ JR” as if he was a faithful horse.

Before we move on to Cole, I want to run a theory past you. It’s nothing I’m trying to convince anyone about, because I have a feeling that Ross himself would likely eschew the notion if he caught wind of it, but there’s a certain logic at work that could explain a lot if I’m on to something.

It seems to me that Vince, since he took over his dad’s WWWF, has been on a quest to do away with virtually every aspect of the old school southern territories, to turn the popular face of professional wrestling into a bright, glossy, slick product, in part, one of the reasons he sought to put those territories out of business. Even when he was at war with WCW, notice how he always affected a cartoonish hillbilly accent when he referred to “Dubbya-See-Dubbya” with that corny, sideways grin smugly plastered on his kisser, as if accentuating WCW’s southern heritage proved to fans that it was second-rate.

Because The WWF was always so closely related with New York and Vince so firmly re-establishing himself in the wealthy Greenwich, Connecticut, many fans don’t realize that he’s a born southerner himself. It’s been documented that Vince grew up with his mother in North Carolina and didn’t even meet his dad until he was twelve years old. He witnessed his mother trying to move on, dating and amrrying men who treated her incredibly poorly, one who abused her to such an extent that Vince has stated in an interview that he greatly regrets not having had the opportunity to kill the responsible party himself.

Is it possible that these experiences in his youth left such an impression on young Vince such that he reviles the south? Does hearing Ross’ drawl remind him of the men his mother dated unsuccessfully growing up in that trailer and resent him by proxy? Does the fact that he knows he couldn’t plug in Ross’ mic cord compound that resentment, which is why he feels compelled to humiliate him in the ring and tried so hard for so long to nudge him out of the lead play-by-play position? Like I said, I’m not convinced that this holds any water at all, I’m just curious to see what others think.

Obviously, I don’t think much of Vince’s commentary. As a matter of fact, there’s a striking similarity between Vince and Cole all the way around in terms of commentary. Check out the Pat Patterson/Ted DiBiase match on Disc One of the InterContinental Championship DVD set and tell me Vince’s commentary in that match isn’t eons better than it would (d)evolve into during the “New Generation” era, when everything was “UN-BEEE-LEEEIVABLE!”. For every “TO the SKULL!” with which Cole favor us, Vince had a “WHAT a manEUver!” For every “VINtage CEna!” Cole gives us, Vince was right there with a “What’s gonna happen?!”

It seems as if, somewhere along the way, Vince conceived a dumbed-down manner of commentary that he employed himself, and, once a young, impressionable little wusstard like Cole came along, he promulgated that idiocy, nipping in the bud what could have been a perfectly impressive announcing career. I agree, Cole wasn’t always as awful as he is now; remember how well-received his commentary partnership was with JBL? That team was virtually unanimously regarded as one of the most entertaining and effective teams heard on WWE-TV since the glory days of Ross & Lawler. Why was that? Is it because JBL was so aggressive that he kept Cole in line, calling him out when he tried the obnoxious, irritating shit he seemingly has carte blanche to douse us with now? If so, why, if we’ve established that Cole has said shit fed to him by Vince?

This brings me to a question – Why is it that Vince and Cole’s particular catch phrases are so incredibly cringe-worthy when all the announcers mentioned above had their own and we revel in them? Monsoon constantly told us about “Excedrin headache number twenty-four”, how “this place has gone bananas” and that “this guy wouldn’t know a wristlock from a wristwatch”, Heenan referred to fans as “humanoids”, faces as “ham-and-eggers” and who can forget his cry for us all to be “Fair to Flair”? Ross’ own catch phrases have become apart of the modern manner in which we describe pro wrestling: “Slobberknocker”, “Buisness picking up”, “Through hellfire and brimstone” and “Mah GAWD! Mah GAWD!” are simply classic calls.

So why, then, do we want to throw things at our TVs for every “Vintage!” we hear? Is it because we know how disingenuous the call is? The fact that it’s just a prefabricated, wrestling “Mad Lib”? A cookie-cutter means to an end? Even when he’s rattling off facts about the performers during a match, when Ross did it, I felt as if he was informing the audience about the background of such performers, whereas Cole seems as if he’s just reading a prepared script that just fills time until he bleats out the finisher that ends the match and the bell rings. Piped-in coaching or not, it’s just that sort of characteristic, that quality of talent that separates a corporate puppet announcer like Cole and a true orator whose spirit and passion lies in the action he’s calling and those making that action happen like Ross. Yes, Cole is a good employee who does as he’s told, which is the reason he finds himself in the advantageous spot he’s in, but his inferiority as an announcer runs much deeper than the fact that he’s sold himself out to be the boss’ ventriloquist’s dummy.

And, since you brought it up, Eric, and I’m not trying to open this can of worms, I think enough time has passed such that we can start to discuss Chris Benoit again and, if we each personally feel comfortable doing so, watching his matches again. Speaking only for myself, I found it fairly easy to separate Benoit’s considerable accomplishments in the ring from the tragic ones that final weekend. It’s my personal belief that he was in a deteriorated state of mind for myriad reasons…the physical toll his take-no-prisoners style of performance (which was especially and inordinately cranial-intensive) took on him, the various and sundry amount of chemicals he was pumping into himself, the mindfuck of reaching the top if his profession and having the sense that he was slipping back down the card, the amplification as he got older of his childhood tendency to keep to himself, compounded by having lost so suddenly his main confidante and best friend of decades in Eddie Guerrero. Combine that with the pressure of being on the road as intensely as his profession demanded, the strain that pressure put on his marriage and the alleged concerns over the health of his son.

Now, let me make this abundantly clear, I’m not making any excuses for his actions…not at all. But I don’t think he was either the at all the ‘roid raged freak nor the premeditated monster some make him out to have been. I think he was the victim of a multitude of debilitating factors that all came together inside of him to create a shameful, tragic cocktail that, sadly, ended with victims of its’ own. I mourn all three lives lost that regrettable weekend, because for someone to have slipped that far into dementia, someone should have noticed. If nothing else, it seems as if this horrible situation has encouraged WWE to implement a system by which its’ performers are working under much safer and concerned conditions (even if said system is arguably flawed, preferential and constructed more to protect the company itself from further public embarrassment then out of concern for the well-being of its’ performers).

My biggest problem with Michael Cole is the consistent misuse of words and basic wrestling terms. The two main offenders are as follows:

Scoop Slam vs. Powerslam: He reverses the definitions EVERY WEEK. Randy Orton hits that beautiful powerslam of his and Cole calls it a “scoop SLAM! by Orton!”

Obstructed: “The referee’s vision obstructed by Serena!” NO! The referee’s vision was not obstructed, he could see just fine! He was being distracted by Serena, yes, but unless Serena covered his hands with her eyes, his vision wasn’t obstructed in any way.
Posted By: Adam S.

It took him forever to learn and appropriately call the difference between “reversing” a hold and “countering” it, but I think we’ve spent enough time talking about Cole Slaw.

I love men and I love to swallow Vince’s load.
Posted By: TheSurge

Is the same Serge I dated a couple years ago? That night with the whole hot tub, cocaine and absinthe thing…?

Geoff I see where you and the other guy are coming from on all those former wrestlers having mo creative power, and I agree to an extent. My problem is with this continued thought that great wrestlers make great wrestling minds. Look at how many wrestlers have failed as Bookers, look at Hogan in TNA. Yet guys like Cornette and Heyman who can’t wrestle often get credit for their “genius”. I mean Dusty thought Shockmaster was a good idea
Posted By: Brandon

Why is genius in quotes when referring to Heyman and Cornette? I’m kidding, I get it, although I continue to drink both their Kool-Aid. I’m not necessarily suggesting that ALL former wrestlers make the best bookers. What I mean in terms of better utilizing the resources WWE has at its’ disposal in their regard is to increase the amount of backstage mentorship between the veterans and the new guys coming up, helping them better establish their characters such that perhaps they could evolve beyond the need for scripted promos.

Furthermore, it seems to me that one of the most compelling aspects about professional wrestling is having X performer with his own unique set of characteristics, both in terms of personality and ring work, juxtaposed with Y performer with his own unique set of characteristics, and what happens when they’re pitted against one another. Sure, you can have two amazing athletes like Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit gut it out in the ring, relying upon simple talent and never-say-die will to win and be guaranteed a blow-away twenty minute classic each time; however, really, how many Angles and Benoits are there likely to be in the same franchise at any given time?

No, the thing that separates professional wrestling from other “legitimate” forms of competition-based athletic contests is the characterization of those involved and those characterizations needn’t be as ridiculously over-the-top as wrestling clowns or stock car racers and it seems to me that such storied veterans as WWE employs can break down modern characters and liken them to classic ones, because, really, we connect with the truth and honesty a character presents and represents, good or bad, the manner which emotion and the manipulation of the human condition is represented. It’s the same reason why the works of Shakespeare are still read and performed to this day; strip off the trappings of decoration and people are, always have been and always will be people.

It seems to me that the successful veterans of yesterday understand this and, moreover, how to orchestrate the acts of heroism and despicableness that causes fans to invest in those perpetrating such acts. That’s the hard part. Assuming the performers are skilled at their craft, which they should be to have reached the level of their profession WWE represents, pitting two characters in which fans have invested emotionally against one another, then, doesn’t have to be some huge, blown-up affair such that resorting to such sensationalism as vehicular assault and necrophilia becomes a necessity. Look at the simplicity of Ric Flair versus Ricky Steamboat. Steamboat’s simple, familial homelife was beautifully juxtaposed against the hedonistic avarice of Flair’s notorious Wheelin & Dealin lifestyle. Of course, they’re two of the greatest between the ropes ever, but the backstory leading in was basic, but emotionally compelling. There’s no reason we can’t and shouldn’t have that again.

I’m also glad that Bret has returned. I had kind of soured on him over the last 8+ years or so because he seemed like a bitter man feeling sorry for himself. It made me forget how much I appreciated his work prior to the Screwjob. Seeing him back with “his family” (which I consider the WWE because they made him) is a nice way of getting some closure and hopefully gives him the respect he deserves on his way out.

I don’t know what the point was of Vince coming out on Raw and wishing him luck. Was it just that or was it more than that? It just came off weird. Is it leading to Hart’s Raw guys vs Vince’s SD guys (assuming he bumps Teddy Long out of the role and takes it for himself) at Bragging Rights down the road? I don’t know, it seemed a little “off” to me.

I also agree that Bret’s dropping of the US Title was pretty uneventful. A brief explanation would have been enough. It could even have been announced at Over the Limit that he was forfeiting the title and would address it on Raw the next night.

But what do we know, right?
Posted By: Angry Bear

About the Miz defending his titles, or anyone else really who doesn’t seem to defend their titles once a month: There is nothing saying that they must be defended once a month on tv. They are often defended on house shows and have even changed hands on non-televised events.
Posted By: August

In regard to the UST conversation, I agree with the commenter that Miz should have retained/regained the belt after seeing the way it was treated following Hart’s victory. I fully expected an announcement from Hart that upon accepting the position of General Manager, he had to forfeit the championship. We could have gotten a speech about how at this point in his life, he sees greater long-term gains in a position within the front office rather than as a full-time wrestler. Therefore, the belt would be forfeited and as his first action as GM, he creates a bracket for the UST. In this, Miz could have complained about how he deserves it back and shouldn’t have to win a tournament to get the belt. This could have ultimately resulted in the Truth-Miz final on a PPV with Truth winning. Miz would have gotten two wins before this, as would have Truth, resulting in solid momentum. I do feel that WWE dropped the ball on this.

Regarding Miz’s lengthy title reign with minimal defenses, we are forgetting the easy explanation that the belt was defended at house shows. WWE likes to pretend from time to time that house shows are important, so if Miz defended the belt against a midcarder once a month in this format, he stays within the rules for a title holder.
Posted By: Guest#8455

Bear, I thought perhaps we were seeing the beginnings of some kind of story between Vince and Bret, too, coming from that odd promo, perhaps an extension of their match at WrestleMania, where Vince just can’t leave well enough alone and believes the best way to truly destroy Bret is to allow history to repeat itself, that being, if he gives Bret enough rope, he’ll make a poor decision and hang himself. However, after what went down on Raw last night, it seems as if we could actually see them on the same side against The former NXT-ers (Can we PLEASE name these guys…? It’s been reported that WWE has trademarked the term “Nexus”, so maybe that will come to be the name of the stable?).

You guys make a great point I obviously failed to consider about The Miz defending his UST on the road at house shows…but doesn’t that kinda make you feel cheated, especially when The UTTTs were always defended on WWE-TV? It just seems uneven and creates a somewhat impotent title reign in the larger scheme. Really, how many times in the last ten years has a title changed at a house show that wasn’t necessitated by an injury or a suspension or what have you?

And how do we feel about R-Truth’s abbreviated UST run? Did it seem like there was little point to having taken the belt off The Miz in the first place if he was just going to end up back with it again in a matter of weeks? Don’t get me wrong, I’m stoked The Miz is my champion again, but it felt as if it was doing Truth some good. He seemed more confident and that he was actually beginning to gather some momentum. I daresay fans seemed to be treating him with more respect and credibility as a result of holding the gold, as if it helped to legitimize him. Now it seems we’re right back to the kind of hot-shotting we’ve discussed in recent weeks that does more to hurt the championship than help it.

Does no one else think that with Fatal 4 way coming up the UTTT should be defended against 3 opponent teams…..say The Usos, The SES and maybe Ziggler and Chavo with Vicki in their corner…..thus we get a 4 way cat fight on the outside with Vicki, Natalya, Snuka’s daughter and Serena.

You have the Uso’s get the pin on one team….the Harts on another…the feud continues until money in the Bank while using the SES, hell maybe even have Kane screw the SES, and Christian screw Ziggler……using the match to make the Christian Ziggler feud go on, Kane-SES and Hart -Uso feuds last for a while and build each team up, since the wwe is so against tournaments
Posted By: Rosie

I’d have been down with that, Rosie, and we almost got your wish granted. I’m just happy to have seen the fact that The Harts and The Usos managed to make PPV after all, when it appeared as if they wouldn’t, based upon their appearance in FCW. However, is anyone else thinking this whole introduction of The Usos is looking more as an opportunity to make Natalya the real break-out star of the program, considering she’s getting more mic time than her male teammates, as well as the fact that it was she who scored the pinfall for her team at Fatal Fourway? Granted, I LOVE Natalya and think she’s easily the best female wrestler in the company, but that’s just sad for Tyson Kydd and David Hart Smith if this is where we’re going. Time will tell.

Slim G, I had the EXACT same reaction to this Cottonwood cat; “Waylon Mercy 2.0!” What a great gimmick, and one that somehow made Dan Spivey interesting… a truly unsung feat in the annals of pro wrestling history….

Lucky Cannon FTW… by which I mean FUCK THE WHAT-?!?!

Additionally, “Mike McGuillacutty”?! F’real real? If they’re worried about Joey Hennig trying to escape the shadow of his Perfect father, that’s one thing, but they kept Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase’s names in tact, and their legendary fathers are still alive! Also, MCGUILLACUTTY?! I. don’t. get. it.

So anyway, I think the difference between the Luger/Narcissus scenario of 1992 and the Bryan Danielson NXT situation is, back then pro wrestling was still fairly fresh off the heels of the territory days. Vinnie-Mac may have thought the majority of his audience actually HADN’T seen Luger wrestle for the NWA. They proceeded similarly in that era with Scott Hall, Sid Justice, the Undertaker and many, many more performers. I don’t even think the line was drawn until 1999, when Chris Jericho debuted on Raw under the name CHRIS JERICHO. At that point McMahon finally admitted, implicitly, that his audience was aware of events outside the confines of Monday Night Raw.

Sure, WWE still changes the names of most of their indie pick-ups, CM Punk being the exception. This MAY even have had something to do with the fact that Punk was the unofficial “King of the Indies” for so long before that happened. Now who do you think held that particular crown between 2006 and 2009…?

That’s all I got for now.

P.S. – Huthkeh Harrith!!
Posted By: KanyonKreist

I’m completely facepalming the whole third-generation wrestlers name changes, too, although, considering apparently the thought that’s gone into the utilization of the first generation of NXT “graduates”, I’m going to chill for now on total outrage and see where we’re headed.

As for your theory regarding Vince believing the territories system held performers who jumped ship in relative obscurity, thus entitling/requiring him to change their name/gimmick, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree. Vince went through a period where he had to make everything and everyone his own and a functioning part of his “New Generation” brand. Besides, the folks you mentioned really benefited from having been renamed: Hall was The Diamond Studd in WCW, which was more a name than a real gimmick and the Razor Ramon persona helped him to establish the in-ring characteristics that even upon returning to WCW as just Scott Hall typified him. Sid Justice was the face version of Sid Vicious, which I couldn’t believe WCW got away with…besides, how does a near seven-footer from Arkansas borrow the name of a British punk rock pioneer and heroin addict? Taker was Mean Mark Callous and was still fairly unknown in WCW, at least better known as one half of The Skyscrapers than having his own identity, so Vince was actually right on in these instances.

Kaval’s ring name from Kawal, meaning Soldier or Warrior in Filipino. WWE changed the W to a V to make it more pronounceable in English.

So no, his name doesn’t come from a flute. Shot and a miss Eubanks. Made me LOL at you and pseudo-research if that helps though.
Posted By: The Celt

Re: The name “Kaval”.

From an interview with the Miami Herald just 2 weeks ago:

“I had the spelling of the name differently, which was from the Philippian language Tagalog. It was spelled K-a-W-a-l, but in speaking with management, they said the name itself would probably be a little more difficult for the casual fan to pronounce.

“So we came up with pronouncing it as a `v’, knowing that in some European languages the `w’ is actually a double v, and that’s why it’s pronounced with a `v’.

“So we were playing around with the idea, and the Kaval name came to me used with a `v’ instead of a `w’. The name meant soldier.

“Me in the ring, I’m a warrior. I’m a soldier. I really go in there and really try to give the people their money’s worth by giving them a hard fought battle”

Also, I don’t really know how your conversations work (do we start them here for next week? or do you make the topics based on comments? Or did by skimming, I missed the topic for next week in the article? Maybe a blurb at the top of every week’s column explaining the “rules” or concept would be helpful? Just a friendly suggestion
Posted By: Empire Of Ownage

Yup, I messed that one up royally. My apologies to Kawal/Kaval/Low-Ki. However, in my own defense, when you type in “Kaval” to Wikipedia, you get the description of the flute I discussed. I never really made the distinction between “Kawal” and “Kaval” as his actual WWE-given name…there always seemed to be some confusion over what was the actual spelling, and when I sought out his page on Wikipedia, that’s what I got spelling his name as it appears on his ring gear. But I always welcome respectful corrections such as these.

Ownage, as far as the rules of this column, there really aren’t any, hard and fast. Ideally, I like to write a little something to get us rolling and to inspire comments on a new topic that I’ll address the following week. However, sometimes I’m more inspired than others, the comments may be slower one week than another, based upon what the topic inspires in readers or I just may not have the time to devote to responding that I’d like, and, rather than half-ass the comments, I’ll allow them to go until such time as I’m able to give them the attention they deserve and run a comments-only column, as I am this week.

You know, don’t think I have ever read a Five Star Conversation on here. I would place the average closer to One and a Half, with plenty of DUDs thrown in…
Posted By: Mojo

Your comment being one of them. NEXT.

While it is Vince’s company it’s also bigger than him. His hands were tied when a company as big as WWE gets bigger they begin to do more business thus more people have their eye on WWE There’s tons of masters to appease.

Vince probably felt if he did not make a move here that the working relationship with this business partner (if this is who made the complaint) would be damaged long or short term. He made the right call. AmDrag will be back though.

Based on what I’ve read and heard, I would say it was a high ranking official in one of 3 places:

Mattell Toy Line: WWE’s partnership with the action figure giant has been said to be a huge deal for the WWE especially as they continue to penetrate the PG demo. It makes perfect sense that this business partner may have voiced their displeasure with Danielson’s actions. While Mattell is being implicated the other sponsors that WWE is working with (7Eleven, Pepsi, Burger King etc.) are also just as likely to have said something as well.

Linda’s Campaign: Potentially obvious master to adhere to. WWE is cautiously trying to protect Linda with what they put on their programming every week. It would come to nobody’s surprise if the complaint came from this direction. As the WWE doesn’t want to create ammunition for a smear campaign from opposing Senate candidates.

USA Network (Universal Family): As we speak, WWE is looking to launch their own network within the next year or 18 months. My guess is the network will be on the air in the fall of 2011 or spring 2012. WWE is working closely with Universal to get this network off the ground. It would not shock me if Bonnie Hammer from USA or someone far ahead of her made a stink about what happened last Monday. The WWE is trying to keep a strong relationship with Hammer in particular because it has been rumored that she is “in line” to become a top executive in the NBC/Universal family. A similar position to that of Dick Ebersol. If that happens the WWE (who Hammer loves due to what WWE/Monday Night Raw has done for the USA Network) sees to be in tremendous business shape.

If Hammer made the complaint I would not be surprised if the WWE were to bend over backwards for her in response. In this scenario I would see it less likely that AmDrag is brought back because the NBC/Universal family probably wouldn’t want AmDrag on their channels thus taking him off WWE TV for good.
Posted By: Justin

I was incredibly skeptical of the firing… I watched a lot of Nitro back in the day, see. Now, to me, the only situations that could force Vince McMahon to do anything (We are talking about Vince here, after all) is two-fold:

1) Some executive in Mattel cried foul. WWE has called their recent partnership a “game changer” and they do happen to be an incredibly powerful corporation. Executives also, in my knowledge, overreact to stupid things.

2)Someone, or Linda herself, in Linda’s Senate campaign. WWE has been criticized that the PG environment is attributed to this and has gone out of its way to not put anything shocking or unacceptable on TV. I could see WWE finally trying something crazy since Linda’s main opponent for the Republican nomination recently bowed out and maybe they thought they were in the clear.

I really don’t think that the “no choke” rule is really of importance. As you said, a cameraman caught the choking perfectly and other chokes, though not as violent or with such focus, have happened after the Benoit tragedy. It seems to me if the rule were that important, it would be drilled into everyone’s head like the banned moves and words list. Besides, WWE is known to bend the rules for certain guys all the time anyway.

Right now, I think WWE REALLY wants Dragon and plan to move on him before his 90-day clause is up, lest they screw the pooch and gift wrap a main-eventer for TNA (I know Dragon said he wouldn’t go there, but who knows?). Plus, with Barrett saying that Dragon “showed remorse” on RAW, it kind of clears him for a return since, in kayfabe, he regrets what he did. I expect to see Dragon in WWE by Summerslam. If not, it’s just another boat the WWE missed.

By the way, bonus points for the MST3000 reference. I personally enjoyed the later work with Mike, Pearl, Monkey Guy and Brain Guy more, but Joel had that Bob Newhart style of understated humor that rocked too. Check out RiffTrax, they’re still doing their thing.
Posted By: ThePants

These comments were awesome. You guys did a great job of summing up and pointing out the other factors I simply hadn’t considered with respect to they wherefores and whys surrounding the release of Bryan Danielson and I really appreciate the time and thought you put into these comments.

Now I know he’s a company man who tends to walk a fine company line in that which he posts on-line sometimes, but Jim Ross posted as pointed a statement as I think I’ve ever seen him fire off with regard to the possibility of Danielson being fired due to Linda McMahon’s Senate campaign. Point at me and cry “mark” all you want, but in this instance, I’ll take JR at his word and scratch Linda’s camp off the list, especially considering the other factors shrewdly considered above (Mattell and USA Network) make a lot of sense, too, as they represent a much more direct and immediate dollar for WWE.

As I understand it in the longer aftermath, the controversy was more a concern of having violated the PG-TV status over which WWE sells itself to partners such as Mattell, and not so much as pointed a situation as the “unwritten Benoit” rule. I’ve also heard WWE pretty well took action against Danielson to display to those concerned parties that they are committed as company to protecting the statutes upon which they sell themselves, but will allow all the hoohah to cool down, force Danielson to “serve his penance” and bring him back on board, likely before his 90-day non-compete clause expires.

I wonder if Danielson might be the mysterious limo driver and the new anonymous General Manager of Raw, feigning remorse (in kayfabe) so as to secure the spot only to double-cross Vince, positioning him such that the NXT-ers would be able to take him out, thereby giving the newly-hired rookies control of the show from which they’d been fired by Bret Hart just a week prior…?

I have nothing to add to this comment, but I thought it bore repeating, because it made me laugh out loud:

So, in WWE you can get shit-canned if your work is too believable? That explains a lot…

I guess everybody will have to hold strictly to an arsenal of dancing fist-drops and partial-contact flying shoulderblocks from now on….
Posted By: KanyonKreist

There were a slew of really thoughtful, fantastic comments responding to last week’s column where we looked at the termination of Danielson, but, in light of what we’ve seen in the interim, I’d basically just be repeating myself in response after having reprinted some lengthy, though brilliant, thoughts from some great folks who really took the intension of this column to heart. I really appreciate all of your thoughts! If you missed last week’s column, I highly encourage you to take a snoop back and check out these comments. For those who are discouraged by the turn this angle appears to have taken thus far (and already), I don’t think we’ve seen the end of it just yet. I believe there are a couple more twists and turns yet.

In closing, I just want to inform those who have graciously become followers of this column that the next couple of weeks could be a little rocky with respect to my meeting my usual Monday afternoon deadline. My company has been looking to move its’ office here in Los Angeles since January, but, for various reasons, the right situation ha never presented itself…until now. And I mean just now. We have basically a week-and-a-half to move an entire office around the ridiculousness of the building we’re leaving (which I refer to as the iPhone building, because, yep, there’s a form/procedure for that), including a litany of liquidators, movers, contractors, electricians, etc.

My Director of Operations, who is in charge of the move, is setting up the whole thing, but is going on holiday the week of the physical move to her sister’s graduation in LONDON, leaving me in charge, unable to even call her when things invariably go wrong. So I’m looking at long, stressful hours getting moved out and resituated in the next couple weeks and I’m not sure how deeply in mind of writing this column I’m going to be. It may be a welcome distraction, I may be to knackered to think about it. It may not run on Tuesday. Just know that, if I disappear for a bit, like Frosty the Snowman, I’ll be back again someday…give or take a kookie hat.

Thanks for reading!
RESPEEEEECK!!!