Ask 411 Wrestling: Could Vince Have Succeeded Without Cable TV?

Hello, welcome to Ask 411 Wrestling, take a load off why don’t you. You well? I certainly hope so. I’m Mathew Sforcina, but you already knew that, so why don’t we skip the pleasantries and get down to why you’re here.

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Oh, you’re here for Wrestling Trivia and Opinion? Oh, all right.

If you have a WT&O question, send it to [email protected] and I’ll answer it.

Zeldas!

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Action Figures/Merch: I bow to superior knowledge on this topic, in that apparently WWE works on a “get paid by other company upfront and then they sell the stuff” so you buying the Miz action figure won’t put money in his pocket directly.

Although, that said, if Miz’s merch is all bought up, surely someone will notice and then make more, you’d assume… But I don’t know, maybe all the businesspeople in America are too busy buying off politicians or something.

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And that’s why I don’t try topical humor all that much.

Savage and WWE: While there wasn’t an official breaking of bread, there was the start of it, with Savage’s input in promoting the All Stars video game. Not much, sure, but it was similar to the start of the Ultimate Warrior’s path back to WWE’s good graces so I feel you can argue that Savage hadn’t sacrificed himself to prevent the rapture then he might be sitting on PPV Pre Show Panels right now.

The Trivia Crown

Who am I? I’ve got a match being put up on the WWE Network right about now. I’m one of only a few people to be involved in a specific final thing at two specific different but related shows. I’ve had famous feuds with saints, gods and superheros. I’ve been shaved, I’ve been the boss, and I’ve been in print. I’m the best at what I did, according to WWE one time. Oh, and I’ve never lost in Columbus, apparently. Who am I?

Ron Fricking Gamble and MG66 had the answer, but not specifics, so I’ll go through that now.

Who am I? I’ve got a match being put up on the WWE Network right about now (vs Jack Brisco). I’m one of only a few people to be involved in a specific final thing at two specific different but related shows (main evented Wrestlemania & Starrcade). I’ve had famous feuds with saints (Greg Valentine), gods (Adrian Adonis) and superheros (Hulk Hogan). I’ve been shaved (vs. Guererros in LA), I’ve been the boss (was Interim WWF President), and I’ve been in print (Piper’s Pit was also a magazine column). I’m the best at what I did, according to WWE one time (Greatest Villian). Oh, and I’ve never lost in Columbus, apparently (Piper’s Pit with Frankie Williams. Who am I? Roddy Piper!

Who am I? I trained with a God, as well as a famous wrestling family. My debut in the big leagues was delivering something to a guy most famous as a fake. My most famous ring name was taken from a guy who was a King and a Master. I once won a title off a noble and lost it to a mythical creature, I was once stripped of a title as part of a major storyline, I once hung out with a Hall of Famer’s significant other, and I once contributed a dress to a popular gimmick. Who am I?

Getting Down To All The Business

Ron Gamble forever gets first cab off the ranks.

Since you brought it up, now that the Last Battle of Atlanta has been found (and I really thought it would be longer, but I’m still happy), what would now be considered the most famous “lost” match? Yes, besides the WWWF South American title tournament. My thought would be Pedro Morales and Bruno Sammartino at Shea Stadium.

I think we need to delineate between ‘lost’ in terms of not televised because it wasn’t taped, and ‘lost’ because it was taped and then ‘lost’. Because there’s plenty of important matches that weren’t taped, stuff like the Bruno/Hogan tag team, all the Flair/Steamboat house show matches, and to my knowledge the Pedro/Bruno Shea match, it wasn’t filmed and thus is lost to all time and we’ll never see it. Probably out of those, I guess the big one is Bruno winning the title.

As for matches taped and then not seen, there’s some ECW stuff that got buried for various reasons, a bunch of WWE title changes… I think the Pedro Moraels IC title win that was being shown live on the MSG Network but they switched to coverage of John Lennon’s murder, that’s probably the biggest. And/or stuff filmed by WCW as part of the Disney tapings where Sid was champ and stuff maybe. But I’d say Pedro’s IC win is the biggest one that should, in theory, exist somewhere.

But perhaps someone below has a better idea.

Bill asks about naming themes.

Matt, now that we have crowned a Smackdown Women’s Champion and Smackdown Tag Team Champions wouldn’t it make more sense to follow the naming convention with the main Raw and Smackdown titles (Universal and World respectively) and call the remaining Raw titles (less the US belt) the Women’s Universal Champion and the Universal Tag Team Champions and these newly created Smackdown titles the Women’s World Champion and the World Tag Team Champions? I just personally think it makes more sense and puts a bit more value in the belts. Thank you for your opinion!!

They did that, last time round, where the World Title had the World Tag Titles, and the WWE Title had the WWE Tag Titles. And that worked well.

Right up until they drafted people around and belts started jumping back and forth, then there was confusion and mayhem. At least by naming them after the brands, there’s branding there, and it will hopefully prevent anyone getting clever in drafting people between shows, at least while they are champion.

I mean, if WWE did change the names to those I won’t complain, but I understand why they’re trying to build the Raw and Smackdown brands back up to mean something, and as part of that they want to make the belts reinforcing the brand… I disagree they need to be so all-in on that aspect of branding, but I understand it.

But that’s not the worst idea, certainly.

Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo asks about inductions and who should be doing them.

This column is my favorite read of the week. One question for you. Assuming these people all get into the WWE HOF (a big assumption in some cases), who do you think should induct them?

Well before we get to the list, my overall answer is “Whoever they want”. I feel that the WWE HOF, for all its faults and questionable status, is still, at the end of the day, a celebration of the person involved and their career, and ideally whomever they want to induct them should be allowed to do so. But that doesn’t always happen, since WWE will overrule people if they don’t like their choices, like how Jerry Lawler wanted famed Memphis announcer Lance Russell, but WWE felt no-one would know who that is, and so they got William Shatner in instead.

So, with that said…

Kane

Pete Rose, on the basis that Undertaker wouldn’t do it and Paul Bearer has left us.

John Cena

That’s an interesting one. WWE would probably want Nikki Bella to do it, or Orton so they can push the “Hogan/Andre, Austin/Rock, Cena/Orton” thing they occasionally do. If I had unlimited access to anyone, probably Angle, his first big leagues match and all that. Maybe Jericho as his first PPV win…

Big Show

Big Boss Man They probably wouldn’t use anyone from his WCW days, so no Jimmy Hart or Kevin Nash or Lex Luger (although that one obviously won’t work anyway). Jericho would again be the obvious choice, but I’ll go with Shane McMahon, because who didn’t love Wrestlemania 2000? Bonus points if Shane does his induction as a nursery rhyme.

The Miz

John Morrison if we’re going crazy here, Daniel Bryan if we’re playing it straight, Maryse, probably, if he got to choose. Or heck, maybe he’d want JBL to do it just to rub it into his face.

Dolph Ziggler

Lex Luger, one choker to another?

Big E and AJ.

Zack Ryder

So we’re looking really long term here, then? Dolph Ziggler. They’re besties, or at least were at some point, and Ziggler was the guy who gave Zach that moment of hope so…

The Undertaker

Kane.

Randy Orton

Cena.

Paul Heyman

Kana.

I mean Asuka.

I mean, I feel like if anyone but Brock does it, Brock will eat them. So Brock.

Cody Rhodes

…

Seriously? Seriously?

Fine. Goldust if it’s Cody, Stephen Amell if it’s Stardust.

I see you walking backstage and you’re a guy I love
And I’m like, Hug You!

Brian has a simple enough question.

Was Angle always scheduled to win or was the change made based on the 9/11 terrorist attacks?

I covered this… Good Victoria, 5 years ago?!? I remember that because that was one of my better bits, although I still regret not tossing in the “If Jed Shaffer was booking, it wouldn’t matter what happened, Paul Heyman would come out looking like a genius” super in-joke.

Yes, I remember obscure in-jokes I didn’t write from 5 years ago, but can’t remember what I had for breakfast. Priorities, people!

But I can back up my educated guessing with Kurt Angle’s own words! Late last year, at a Q&A in England with Mr. Angle, someone asked about the match, and I quote…

Someone asked Kurt about his title win at Unforgiven in 2001 and said that as a fan, that was one of his favorite matches. They asked Kurt if there were any matches that he personally felt he enjoyed in that way. Kurt replied, “Yes, absolutely that match”. He went on to explain that he was never supposed to get the title at that point in his career, but due to 9/11, he felt that people needed an American symbol and as he was the American Hero, he felt he could do it. He said that at that time he could feel an energy in the crowds that people wanted and needed someone to believe in, so he called Vince McMahon and asked him if he thought it was a good idea if he won the title. After the conversation, he said that Vince said, “I’m fine with it but you need to talk to Stone Cold and get him to agree”. He said he was a little nervous asking Austin, but when he called him up, Austin immediately agreed and said it was a good idea. This led to Kurt winning the title at Unforgiven, but there was no long term storyline plan for him to be the champion and he lost the belt two weeks later. He said that at that time though, the fans needed that “win” and that losing the title didn’t detract from it at all and that it still made a lot of sense. He then said that whenever you see something like that and someone wins a title only to lose it again quickly, it’s because something has happened behind the scenes and that it wasn’t meant to happen that way.

So yeah, 9/11 forced their hands, but it worked out ok in the end.

Well… The storylines. Not the company.

Or the world.

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I’m depressed now. More so, anyway. I need something light and cheery to feel better. Michael?

Why does Roman Reigns still wear the SWAT outfit and come out to the Shield music still long after the group’s premature death? The music hasn’t been tweaked/remixed like The Rock’s music to the point that you forget it was the Nation of Domination’s theme? I get black looks cool especially when you’re trying to get a no nonsense badass character to put over the phrase “suffering succotash” but all I think about is still The Shield and what once was.

Yay, Roman Reigns talk.

The short answer is “Vince wants him to”, and that’s the medium and long form answers too, actually. Reigns got over looking like that, and they’ve made some modifications but kept the look overall intact, on the basis that he got over like that so if they keep that the same then he’ll be as over as he was again. Any day now, just you wait.

That said, when he lost the vest at Payback 2014, when Evolution tore it off him iin the elimination tag match, he looked… Weird, without it.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ruqkq

The WWE Network! For all your shirtless Samoan needs!

Or maybe, just maybe, it’s the same reason why Rock wrestled for a while in 99 in a track suit, perhaps Reigns had some surgery to remove excess mass around the chest area, due to a genetic predisposition to such mass.

You know, he had his manboobs lopped off.

But really, if he didn’t change it at Wrestlemania against Brock, then he’s not changing it any time soon, not until the mythical heel turn.

So yeah, no time soon.

Dave asks about WCW ripping off WWE. I’m shocked!

I mean, next you’ll tell me WWE has ripped off WCW! And ECW! And TNA!

Really enjoy the column. Back when WCW was competing with WWE (though the ratings had turned in WWE’s favor at this point) we used to get a weekly highlight show in the UK, with segments/matches from both Nitro & Thunder shown. I recall one match where WCW did there own Royal Rumble type match, with the winner getting a title shot. 1 – whose idea was this and did WWE kick off?

I know Russo wanted to do one at Souled Out 2000 for the vacant WCW World Title, where Sid would come in early, last all the way until he was alone at #30, which would be Tank Abbott, who with one punch knock Sid out of the ring. One of those Russo situations that is ‘logical’ in terms of being plausible but, importantly, not a good idea because it wouldn’t make money, in this case because Tank Abbott was a complete joke and you can’t make complete jokes into World Champions overnight.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3tcu2c

Usually.

The WWE Network! For all your dream crushing needs!

That said, I don’t recall this match actually happening, let me check.

Well, unless this recap show was airing stuff from the German only PPV Millennium Final, the only match like this was on the Thunder right before Slamboree 00. And it wasn’t a Royal Rumble match, as such…

The WWE Network! For all your confusing crap needs!

So I guess the answer would be ‘Bischoff and/or Russo’, given they were booking together at this point. And I’m not sure WWE could sue, that would imply they can make sense of that and/or that they’d have to claim that match was too similar to one they’d done…

2 – Booker T, despite being the champion, was in the match…why?!

He wasn’t champ at the time, the champ at the time was… Uh… David Arquette. So I understand why you might have blocked that from your memory. It’s ok, we feel your pain. We live in a world where Arn Anderson, William Regal and Roddy Piper weren’t world champions, but David frigging Arquette was.

I think we need a palate cleanser.

I certainly feel better.

Ben has two questions. Let’s answer them!

In your opinion, do you think Vince McMahon could have pulled of the destruction of the territories and monopolizing the wrestling industry without the advent of cable television?

Yes and no, if you pardon the expression. I think he would have killed most of the territories and monopolized wrestling for a good chunk of the country, but without cable, not only does PPV not come along and revolutionise the industry in such a way that only Vince was there to capitalise on from the start, but more importantly the boost that the WWF got from the Rock n Wrestling MTV run doesn’t give the boost that makes sure the WWF is not only #1 but known to even non-fans.

Vince would have still put most territories out of business without cable because he was ruling syndication as much as he was ruling cable. His ingenious plan of paying TV stations to run his professional looking product worked wonders, and that would have killed a bunch of territories no matter what. And so depending on how you judge control, Vince monopolises the business by default in that regard.

But before WrestleMania, before Rock n Wrestling, despite what revisionist history says, Hogan was not a household name, he was merely a very popular wrestler. Without the cultural boost of MTV… Vince would still be king, but his kingdom would be much smaller.

Which, of course, might well have led his plan to backfire, and his money to dry up, and forced him to shrink and we end up with a dozen wrestling companies, all thriving in their little marketplaces, allowing guys to travel and giving hundreds of wrestlers work… Vince’s nightmare, but for everyone else, not a horrible idea… But then again, to get that, we have to give up a whole lot of cable channels. And I’m not sure that world is worth losing Archer over.

Could you provide a list of all wrestler’s that had “creative control” in their contracts?

No.

The problem is trying to distinguish between ‘Wrestler who has Creative Control written into his contract’ and ‘Wrestler who is so important and vital that company will bend over backwards for and/or who is booking the company and/or bonking someone important within the company”. Sure, sometimes it’s clear because of a dispute (Bret) or because people bitch about it (Hogan), but most of the time, it’s a gray area.

That said, those two names, Bret and Hogan? They are the only two where it has been officially said, in some sort of public sphere, that creative control existed. Bischoff has said that Hogan was the only one in WCW, and Bret’s was certainly the last guy to ever get it written in for WWF, the story goes.

But Cena, HHH, Austin, Rock, Michaels, Andre… They might have had it, or they just were too important to not piss off. Unless we see one of their contracts, we won’t know for sure.

Back to titles for a minute to finish with Nightwolf

What genius came up with the design for the tag team titles that you see on Raw (and soon to be Smackdown). That has to be the worse title design eve. Also why do they still have the Spartan Helmets on them?

Going backwards, they still have the Spartan Helmets because they’re supposed to represent battle and warfare and two soldiers standing side by side, or back to back I guess given they face away from each other. And the bronze is to differentiate them.

As for who designed them, they were actually designed in-house by WWE, which explains a lot. See, WWE has gone through a few belt makers, the first one that is well known is Reggie Parks, he was the belt maker into the mid 90’s for most everyone, but WWE stopped using him over disputes about how Reggie wouldn’t give WWE rights to the classic belt designs. So WWE moved to J-Mar, a.k.a Joe Marshall, and he began to design and make belts for the WWE. He worked with WWE for a long time, and for the purposes of this question, he actually designed and made Unified WWE Tag Team Title belts that were ready for Wrestlemania 25, when the two sets of tag champs were unified, but WWE didn’t like the designs and held off, as they then designed belts in-house and then had Dave Millican, they’re current designer, actually make them.

So specifically who designed them, I can’t tell you. Someone within the bowels of WWE HQ, a graphics designer, toiling away in the dark, keeping their nose clean so as not to sneeze and incur the wrath of the great Lich King Vincent… They were the genius.

And on that bizarre note, goodbye for this week, and next week, hopefully, will be nice and big. Unlike this week, which was cruel and short…