411 Buy or Sell Classic Wrestling Edition 2.19.12: Sting as the Next Hogan, Rick Rude World Title Run, Road Warriors vs. Demolition, More

Hello, readers of 411, and welcome back for the second edition of Chrononaut’s Classic Wrestling Buy or Sell! The premiere episode garnered some very positive feedback so hopefully we can keep it going. If you have any suggestions for topics or statements that could be used in future installments, please feel free to leave them in the comments section or drop me an email and you might see your idea used. This column is a lot of fun so far as it brings back some memories and it’s always interesting to hear the opinions of others regarding some of these classic subjects. As for myself, I am 32 and I watched wrestling as far back as I can remember, but it was the build-up to WrestleMania V that hooked me for life and I watched consistently up until early 2007. I used to get my parents to buy me WWF Magazine every month, as well as countless issues from the Pro Wrestling Illustrated family of publications and even those cheaper magazines filled with advertisements for videos of women wrestling men in their apartments. I attended many WWF house shows as a kid, and I also became a big WCW fan when I discovered them on TV after reading about them in the magazines. So it’s safe to say I was a pretty hardcore fan and it took quite a bit to finally drive me away from the current product. It was a general lack of seriousness in the storylines and the characters that really turned me off of WWE in 2005, so I got into TNA when they debuted on SpikeTV and absolutely loved it, but then Vince Russo came along and totally ruined everything I liked about it. The final straw was the Benoit incident and for a while, I was one of those people who felt ashamed of being a fan. I sold several of my old tapes and DVDs and stopped watching completely for about three years. Slowly I began watching old promos and matches on YouTube, then I ordered WWE Classics On Demand and started downloading tons of old shows I hadn’t seen. At this point, I watch plenty of wrestling in my spare time and it’s all classic stuff from the ’80s and ’90s, and when I do tune in to Raw here and there, it just reminds me why I stick to my nostalgia trip.

Anyway, just wanted to provide a little background on your humble auctioneer, and that is likely the extent of me talking about myself. There are, after all, far more interesting subjects to discuss. This time, we’re going further back in history with statements that mostly relate to the ’80s and early ’90s. Our first contestant this week is a 411 journeyman who most recently put together the 2011 Year End Awards… Australia’s second-favorite son, SCOTT RUTHERFORD!

Outback Jack approved!

Also joining us today, he is renowned as a man blessed with a nose for news and the innate ability to separate Fact from Fiction… hailing from Cook’s Corner, please welcome STEVE COOK!

This was the first image that came up when I Googled “Steve Cook”. Lookin’ good, buddy!

Now that we have you here, let’s get on with it, gentlemen.

1. Today’s superstars are more athletic than their predecessors, but the legends of yesterday were tougher.

Scott Rutherford: SELL. Weirdly I agreed with this statement in principle but when I thought about it for more than 10 seconds, the whole statement really doesn’t hold water. When you look closer you trade certain aspects of the era’s past-to-present that causes that general line of reasoning to collapse. Firstly, previous generations worked more matches but the actual matches they worked were far lower impact. Things like a drop kick were considered a huge high spot and bear hugs would bring crowds to their feet. Today’s guys work faster and harder and the attrition rate for wrestlers retiring is getting higher. Guys like Austin, Edge, HHH all stepped out or are stepping out when they should be hitting their wrestling prime. Really, to work any sort of full-time schedule as a wrestler you have to learn how to work injured, tired and exhausted. Conversely, older wrestlers used to work longer matches more often while they didn’t moonsalt from the top turnbuckle to the floor, they could work 30 minutes without breathing heavy. It’s different type of athletics and toughness but it’s all the time in the long run.

Steve Cook: SELL. I didn’t like how Triple H implied in his promo that he, Undertaker & Shawn Michaels were the end of an era where wrestlers actually left it all in the ring. I don’t think that’s true, and it was a disservice to the young guys on WWE’s roster that are on the road every night and constantly working through injury. It’s one thing for your typical old wrestler to carp about how things were tougher back in his day, but it’s pretty ridiculous for the guy that’s supposed to be running WWE in the future to make those kinds of claims. Today’s wrestler is just as willing to battle through pain as yesterday’s wrestler. The difference is now we have promotions that are more willing to hold their wrestlers out of action. It’s not like people started getting concussions a few years ago, it’s just easier for doctors to recognize them now and people are taking them more seriously. Today’s wrestler would be more than happy to whack their opponent in the head with a steel chair or take a chair shot to the head or wear the proverbial crimson mask if they thought it’d lead to more money in their pocket, it’s just not allowed by the major promotions due to safety. Granted, there’s probably not anybody in the business now that’s tougher than Harley Race, but on average I think today’s wrestlers are just as tough.

Damn straight.

2. If he had signed with the WWF in 1987, Sting would have been the next Hulk Hogan.

Scott Rutherford: SELL. In way no way in this universe would Sting have been given the chance to be the next Hulk Hogan. The Ultimate Warrior’s run as champion is all the proof you need to use as what would have happened. If you want further proof, see how Sting was treated once Hogan hit WCW. Potentially Sting could have been 10 times the star Hogan ever was but it was never going to happen while Hogan could draw breath.

Steve Cook: SELL. I don’t sell this because of a lack of respect for Sting, who truly was the franchise player in WCW. If you look back at his matches in the late-80s, you see a guy with a ton of athletic ability that’s flying around everywhere like a bat out of hell. He was going to be a star wherever he went, and he would have been a star in the WWF as well. Vince McMahon would have made a ton of money off of Sting…but it wouldn’t have been as much as Hulk Hogan. The truth is that anybody following Hogan was doomed to failure. There was nobody quite like him before, and there hasn’t been anybody quite like him since. Ultimate Warrior didn’t have a chance as the WWF’s super-face post-Hogan, and Sting, though more talented than Warrior and less crazy, would have met the same fate. The WWF fans wanted their Hulkamania, brother.

[Joel Thomas: BUY! My thinking is that if Sting had been plugged into the Ultimate Warrior’s spot from day one and been given the same push, winning the Intercontinental Title and being chosen as the guy that Hulk Hogan would put over at WrestleMania VI, it would have worked out much better and possibly could have sustained the post-Hogan era. While the Warrior was no doubt popular, he didn’t connect with fans on an emotional level like Hogan did or like Sting did in WCW, and standing in the shadow of the Hulkster didn’t help either. Saying that Sting could have been the next Hogan might be hyperbole, but I really think he had major crossover appeal among men, women, and children and a natural charisma that could have led to mainstream success. His ringwork wouldn’t have advanced the way it did since he wouldn’t have had the experience of working with Ric Flair and the Horsemen, but that wasn’t a big factor in the WWF of the late ’80s and early ’90s and his personality would have carried him to megastardom on the grandest stage of them all.]

This should have been the new face of the WWF.

3. Ric Flair should accept his share of the blame for Jim Crockett Promotions going bankrupt.

Scott Rutherford: SELL. Flair was worthy every penny to Crockett Promotions. He was one of the few legit draws they ever had in the 80’s and if the Crocketts had half a brain on how to market their product nationally they would have been sleeping in massive tubs of money. Guys like Dusty Rhodes running the booking into the ground are more directly to blame than Flair being one of the few that actually made them money.

Steve Cook: SELL. Flair was the top draw for JCP throughout the 1980s and had a lot to do with drawing the attendance numbers they got & the TV ratings they got on TBS & in syndication. People more often than not were buying tickets to see Ric Flair, either because they loved him or because they wanted to see him get his butt kicked. He spent a ton of money during that time period so he could live his gimmick, but it’s not like he was the only one doing it. In fact, he was encouraged to do so by Jim Crockett, and Crockett was spending money like it was going out of style. Flair was a product of his environment and was living the life that he thought he was supposed to live. It’s not his fault Jim Crockett Promotions were more than happy to fund him and everybody else on their roster, and if Flair wasn’t there, there probably wouldn’t have been as much money for people to spend.

The quintessential World’s Champion.

4. Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan deserve equal credit for the wrestling phenomenon of the 1980s.

Scott Rutherford: BUY. I agree to a point. Yes they both can take credit but I will always firmly believe that Vince could have plugged a hot white-meat babyface with that epic push and gotten much the same reaction. Guys like Jimmy Snuka were in line but him having a black cloud of a dead woman at a hotel but the police being unable to charge him because of lack of hard evidence to put the brakes on that. Hogan was definitely right man at the right time but without Vinces promotional machine behind him, he would not have reached anywhere near the level of fame he got. Add both together and you get dynamite, separately Vince is still rolling in money and Hogan would be one of the “other” guys in another promotion.

Steve Cook: BUY. The question of who deserves more credit between Hogan & McMahon has been asked over and over again, and I don’t think there’s a right answer. Hulk Hogan was the star that Vince McMahon needed to take the WWF worldwide. He had the charisma to draw millions of people to arenas. Vince McMahon was the promoter with the vision to take over the world of professional wrestling. Hogan wouldn’t have been the same worldwide phenomenon with Verne Gagne promoting him, but McMahon wouldn’t have had as much success taking the WWF worldwide if Bob Backlund was his top star. Hogan needed McMahon & McMahon needed Hogan. It truly was lightning in a bottle.

ON THE WAY TO PICK UP BOOZE, COKE, AND HOOKERS. FUCK YOU.

5. Demolition were a better overall tag team than the Road Warriors.

Scott Rutherford: BUY. Epically so. Why? I started watching wrestling just after I turned 9 years of age. My first watching experience was WM1 and I was instantly hooked on the atmosphere, drama and pageantry. I had no clue that any other wrestling existed outside of the WWF at the time because here in Australia it was the only thing that was showing. It wasn’t until I stumbled upon a PWI with Lex Luger on the front cover that I discovered whole other worlds, but up until then I was living in the Dark Ages thinking that the WWF was alone in the universe. So when Demolition debuted on Superstars, I had no clue that they were Road Warrior knock offs. They were just some terrifying dudes with crazy face paint, leather, metal studs and a mean disposition. The debuted, got over, won the titles, kept ‘em for a couple of years on and off and then disappeared before they became a joke. For most fans they never lost that aura about them. For me they were the true originals. I had NEVER seen anything like them before and when I did become aware of The Road Warriors, to me they were the imitators. Years later, I still prefer Demolition to the L.O.D. Why? They were better workers. L.O.D got by because they were insanely over but name me a classic, straight tag team match that they had? A classic that instantly jumps out of your mouth without thinking about it? The Demo’s had quite a few of these and they could go in the ring and while individually they were average, together they covered each others weaknesses and hold their end of the bargain. Go watch the 2/3 falls match against Tully and Arn from Saturday Night’s Main Event. We know how talented those two were, but Ax and Smash matched them every step of the way. They were great at engaging the crowd and keeping them there, whether as heels or faces.

Steve Cook: SELL. Neither team was a great workrate team on the level of the Rock & Roll and Midnight Express, but they both did their job very well. They looked like monsters and they wrestled like monsters. Demolition had a very good run in the WWF and held the record as the longest reigning Tag Team Champions for over a decade. Their ring gear was a little kinky for my liking, but some people dug it. Were they better than the Road Warriors? I think the WWF answered that question themselves when they had Hawk & Animal squash Ax, Smash & Crush upon entering the company. I wouldn’t say that Demolition were merely Road Warrior ripoffs…they were certainly the most successful of the teams that the Warriors spawned. At the end of the day though, Hawk & Animal will go down in history as the most dominant & feared tag team in history. They brought something completely different to tag team wrestling, and while it’s often been imitated, it’s never been duplicated.

Two sides of the coin to choose from… which is it?

6. Rick Rude is one of the most underrated heels of all time and deserved a real World Title reign in the WWF or WCW.

Scott Rutherford: SELL. I’ve never been a Rude booster but even without a tremendous amount of fandom towards the guy there were always more guys more deserving of any legit world title at the time he was active. You can’t cloud your judgment based on trends today because literally anyone could get the title in this current climate. Back when Rude was in his prime he was a fantastic heel but he never had the type of heat to carry a promotion to big house shows, PPV buyrates and TV ratings. He was the perfect guy to plug in against a babyface champion to get credible wins over and be your second tier champ if needed. Nothing more.

Steve Cook: BUY. I was a huge fan of the Ravishing One growing up. He was the first action figure I had my parents buy me! I liked the airbrushed tights, the colorful robes, and the hip gyrating thing was pretty cool. Sadly I could never replicate it. He could also get it done in the ring…there aren’t many people that had outstanding matches with Ultimate Warrior, but Rude is one of the people on that list. He was a great mid-card level heel during his WWF run and had entertaining feuds with Warrior, Roddy Piper & Jake Roberts. He was great in the ring and he was great on the microphone too. His pre-match promo was always the same, but you always wanted to hear it. Then he went to WCW and in his time there he was probably the best heel wrestler in North America. Rude was money in WCW, and he absolutely should have been the WCW Champion instead of the WCW International Big Gold Belt or whatever they were calling it when he had it. Sadly Rude was forced to retire in 1994 due to a severe back injury. Had he not been forced to retire at that time, I believe he would have been one of the top wrestlers throughout the entire decade and would be a slam dunk Hall of Famer.

Mike McGuirk knows what’s up.

For the record, I agree that Rick Rude could have been a tremendous heel champion, like a more physical Ric Flair, and I absolutely believe that Demolition are superior to the Road Warriors in most ways, aside from the muscular appearance and the fact that Hawk & Animal were the originators. Well, that wraps up the second Classic Edition of 411’s Buy or Sell. Thank you very much to Steve Cook and Scott Rutherford for participating this week. I’ll be back next week with two new contestants from the 411 Wrestling family and six more statements to debate and discuss. Until then, play safe and be good to each other. Thanks for reading.