411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction: Is WarGames the Most Violent Match in Wrestling?

Welcome back to the 411mania Wrestling Fact or Fiction. I’m your host Jake Chambers.

This week we have an extremely special guest, Dustin Dinoff, screenwriter of the crazy indie horror movie Death Link!

Released on VOD this week, Death Link, is about a bunch of bullies who are stalked and murdered by someone who follows the breadcrumbs they drop on social media. Winner of the Best Horror Movie award at this year’s Cannes Independent Film Festival, this is a pretty dark take on the dangers of social media, but with a wild sense of humour too. And who knows more about the horrors, tears and laughter of online interactions than the internet wrestling community, so I recommend everyone reading to check this one out ASAP!

Another reason why I guarantee you’re going to love that movie is because I also happen to know that Dustin is a hardcore, pro-wrestling addict like the rest of us. He was there live for Wrestlemania VI and X-8 at the Skydome, he was in attendance for the Montreal Screwjob, he cheered on all three faces of Foley at the Royal Rumble 1998 in San Jose, soaked up Terry Funk’s blood off the floor in a white t-shirt after a match with Abdullah the Butcher, was there for every ECW, ROH, DGUSA and Evolve show that rolled through Toronto, and if you pause quick enough on the Vader vs. Bradshaw match from the Breakdown: In Your House PPV you can see him and I beaming in the crowd as we slapped the big sweaty back of the legendary Vader.

Alright, now let’s slice ourselves up some bloody wrestling takes!

Statement #1: Wargames is the most violent event on the WWE calendar.

Dustin Dinoff: FACT – Like, sure… now. The key is obviously the “on the calendar” part. There are a couple of one-offs that would qualify over it for the most violent matches of the year each year, but as a regular thing you can look forward to and count on seeing… I can’t think of anything else. Hell in the Cell usually has its moments, but it’s always kind of about anticipating “the stunt” that’s inevitably gonna come – but the Edge/Rollins one in Saudi Arabia gets full marks for being as violent as it was. Credit to the NXT people, they’ve rebooted War Games as something that I think wrestling fans can count on as something that looks like a legit brawl with a satisfying, probably brutal-looking finish. My only hope is that they stay consistent and good and violent without Undisputed Era. I’m going to try to have an open mind – I’ve taken a bit of time off NXT and I’ve enjoyed their WarGames quite a bit, so I’m coming into it with fresh perspective and optimism. 

Jake Chambers: FACT – Considering they used to have PPVs for Extreme Rules, Hell in a Cell, Money in the Bank and TLC matches, it’s pretty disrespectful just how little violence occurs in any of those events anymore. Probably the most violent thing WWE has attempted in the Wargames era was that Eye For An Eye Match, I mean, at least two guy’s were actively trying to pull the eye out of the other’s socket, despite the end result that’s violent intentions. But I don’t have Dustin’s optimism about this weekend’s NXT 2.0 Wargames matches, because I feel like that damning 2.0 brand is gonna make this one look about as hardcore as when ECW’s Public Enemy went to WCW.

Statement #2: The Fiend was the scariest wrestler of all time. 

Dustin Dinoff: FICTION – But I will say I think he’s the scariest looking of all time. I didn’t dig the matches so much, but I loved the entrance every time, and there were times when his was the only entrance I wouldn’t fast-forward through. But scariest wrestler, no way.

I talked with a friend about this question, and his answer was almost immediately The Boogeyman, which I get, because the worms are gross and he did the freaky movements, but I didn’t find him “scary”… just gross and freaky. If things had broken differently, my answer probably would have been Waylon Mercy, but he didn’t have the run I had hoped he would, or the complete body of work I can point to, I think because of injury or something. But I find the idea of soft-spoken, crazy-eyed psychos a little more scary than… whatever the Fiend was supposed to be. So if Bray isn’t the scariest wrestler ever, my counter has to be “because The Undertaker,” and I’m a little disappointed in myself because I think it seems too obvious. The entrance… was it scary? Objectively, yes, sort of, but I mean, anyone who’s reading this has seen it at least a hundred times – at least. It wears off. And “The Deadman” look is great too, of course. Scary though? It depends what you’re into. But I’m saying Taker over Fiend because of 30 years of scary deeds and actions. He routinely dumped people into caskets, and buried a few of them alive. Have you seen The Sinner, Season 3? Yikes, right? Being buried alive is a terrifying prospect to me. He encased his own screaming father in concrete! And let’s not forget “Where to, Stephanie?” and the crucifixions on his symbol. That’s just off the top of my head. Ultimately it’s a matter of taste, because Fiend represents a style of scary, but the substitution of Undertaker in the statement would have been the only way I could have said “fact”. 

Jake Chambers: FACT – For body of work, I can buy Dustin’s argument. But if we’re just going to isolate a specific moment, The Fiend’s original first appearance at SummerSlam 2019 still sets the bar for what a real horror movie moment could look like in a WWE ring.

Statement #3: It is inappropriate for wrestlers to make realistic death threats as part of storylines.

Dustin Dinoff: FACT – Because it’s bullshit. It’s not that it’s “inappropriate” because death threats are extreme. It’s because it makes a promise that could never be kept, and never has been. I’d much prefer someone saying “I’m making it my personal mission to make sure you never wrestle again.” I could buy that, for sure, because maybe there’s stuff going on behind the curtain we don’t know about. I’ll use the Jericho/MJF thing as an example. Jericho threatened to never wrestling in AEW again if MJF could beat him a fourth time. It’s a stipulation I could buy into because it’s Y2J, a gentleman of many hats and interests, maybe MJF beats him and he goes on a post-COVID tour with Fozzy? But if Jericho were to say, “I’m gonna kill you, MJF. No, for real, you’ll be a corpse, your life will be literally over and I’ll go to jail…” I’m never buying that. That said, if someone had said that to Mick Foley in the mid-90s, it might have given me pause, like “Oh dang, Mick usually delivers,” but if I hear a wrestling death threat today, I roll my eyes.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – I’ve always liked wrestling when it gets as inappropriate as possible. Most of the movies and music I like cross the line of good taste, and wrestling is best when it does that too. I don’t think it’s “inappropriate” but maybe like Dustin’s alluding to, it can be boring when we know nothing is going to come from it. No matter what a wrestler says today, even in death match wrestling, no one looks like they’re really trying to kill anyone. There’s too much behind-the-curtain respect communicated to the audience in even the most heated feuds.

¡SWITCH!

Statement #4: Horror movie actor and pro-wrestler CM Punk has been a more important addition to the AEW than Bryan Danielson.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – I would have said so after that first Punk return appearance, but having a full-time, in-ring Bryan Danielson who looks this good and wrestles this much, that just raises the quality and the interest in the show more than even having a seemingly motivated Punk back.

Dustin Dinoff: FACT – Chambers, you know this: I’m a hardcore Bryan Danielson guy. You introduced me to him during his ROH title run, insisted I watch him because you knew how much I’d love his work, and you were right. He’s probably a top ten all time wrestler for me… but Punk is the most important addition to AEW – period. The anticipation of him coming back to wrestling and going there over WWE gave AEW an illusion of potential parity with WWE, and had me checking the news every day. People were talking about it in public outside of the wrestling sphere and he hadn’t even shown his face yet. When he was rumoured to be coming out, I put it on my calendar. Like, I wrote it in pen. It was August 20. I’ll probably aways think of August 20 when it comes around as the day Punk debuted on AEW and gave us the hope that wrestling was about to become interesting in a way that it hasn’t been for years. Danielson has undoubtedly had better matches since he showed up – he walked in an instantly became the best wrestler in the company, if not 1A – but Punk and his being in AEW is a big deal. It can’t be overstated. I’d go so far as to suggest that someday we may point to August 20, 2021 as the day that changed wrestling again. 

Statement #5: Watching wrestling on VHS was more fun than streaming wrestling is today.

Jake Chambers: FACT – This might be such a FACT that I want it engraved on my tombstone! Dustin is pretty much gonna sum this one up beautifully for me.

Dustin Dinoff: FACT – The joy and fun of watching wrestling on VHS was in the hunt. The idea of getting out after school or on a weekend and trying to find those bizarro Coliseum Video compilation tapes, or one of those rare-gem NWA supershows they never broadcast in Canada… that was very satisfying and time well spent. And in a VHS tape scenario, you never skipped a match, no matter what. For better or worse, I’ve definitely seen more Iron Mike Sharpe matches than Elias matches, because you’re not going to skip Iron Mike Sharpe vs. Jose Luis Rivera on a tape, because you drove 30 goddamn miles for the privilege. And don’t get me wrong. As an older guy, with old guy responsibilities and way less time, I have nothing but gratitude that I can basically watch any mainstream, and most off-mainstream, matches I want within seconds of thinking of it. As a kid, I dreamt about the kind of access to wrestling that we all take for granted now. But looking back on those day, there are few sweeter memories than watching wrestling on a VCR because of what we put ourselves through to bring it home.

Great stuff! Thanks again to my talented and knowledgeable friend Dustin for joining me this week. Be sure to check out the Instagram for his new movie Death Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/CW6Tj_EPNSL/?utm_medium=copy_link

If you’re a fan of horror and disturbing twists, kind of like Scream meets Catfish, then Death Link is going to be right between your ropes. I mean, c’mon, if you love wrestling then you love watching crazy gory shit happening to a bunch of attractive people, am I right?

You can rent or buy Death Link RIGHT NOW on Amazon, Fandango, Vudu, and all cable and satellite pay per views, and of course iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/death-link/id1591087713

And we’ll be back next week with the next round in the Larry Csonka Memorial FoF Tournament – don’t miss it!