Ask 411 Wrestling 10.15.08: Regulars Edition

Greetings, humanity! Welcome back to Ask 411 Wrestling with me, Chris Lansdell. I’m enjoying my short week after a turkey-filled Thanksgiving on Monday, which was spent with my family. There is no better way to spend spare time, let me tell you. Much Rock Band 2 was played. This week the musical accompaniment is Some People Say by Terrorvision. What’s that? You want the…

BANNER!

Banner compliments of Benjamin Colon. See more of his work at soulexodus.com.

Cleaning Up

Regarding Jericho getting lost: Jericho has confirmed that he was paying tribute to Spinal Tap with his “Hello, Winston-Salem!” comment, but getting lost was mostly due to the Goldberg parody.

Regarding the Rock’s firsts: Many people pointed out that the first “smell what The Rock is cooking” was said to she of the weirdly-spelt name, Gennifer Flowers at Mania 14.

Regarding the best match to hooks someone on wrestling: Tons of suggestions, but among them – any RVD-Jerry Lynn match, Rock-Austin from WM17, one of the Flair-Steamboat matches from 1989, Angle-Shane and Juvi-AJ-Low Ki-Lynn. I didn’t think anything with Benoit would be a good idea or I could have gone with many, MANY others. I tried to avoid gimmick matches because they don’t give a true picture of what pro wrestling is, and I avoided indies for the reasons I stated last week.

Regarding the best comedic promo: Lots of love for Rock on Billy Gunn, Rock-Booker-Golddust backstage and Edge and Christian with kazoos. If I’d remembered the Rock promo where he mocked the catchphrases of Hogan, Flair and Bret Hart, I would have included it.

Regarding Perfect holding a tag belt: A lot of people mentioned an occasion right after Perfect won the IC title, which is also a possible scenario. As mentioned, Perfect was Flair’s manager when Flair first came in which would explain my answer.

Also, I cannot believe I said Mania XX instead of 22. Just smack me already. There’s a ton of good stuff in the comments from last week, go have a look. I’ll wait.

Done? Cool. Let’s get DANGEROUS~!

Question Time!

Serotonin has some WCW questions. I cannot confirm he was part of Raven’s group however.

Hi Chris, loooong time reader, love the column, just thought I’d see if you could enlighten me!

(!) My first question is about MVP, but not the one you’re thinking of. I seem to remember a wrestler debuting in WCW under the name MVP, I believe he was masked and I don’t think he lasted too long. Any idea who I’m thinking of? I can’t put my finger on it…

Could be a couple different people. Dale Torborg, who is better known for his KISS Demon persona and more recently had a couple of appearances in TNA, briefly was known as The MVP. I couldn’t find a single picture of him during this time so I can’t say if he was masked or not. Steve “Man of 1,000 Gimmicks” Lombardi played MVP, who was a guy in pinstripes and a face painted like a baseball who either became or evolved from Abe “Knuckleball” Schwartz.

(2) I seem to remember a few years back WWE (or possibly TNA) were planning on bringing in Lenny and Lodi in for a stint. Was there any truth in that?

Jarrett did try to bring them in to TNA, but Lodi was injured and about to undergo his second neck surgery, which would keep him out for just over 18 months. He’s wrestling NC Indies now. I have not heard of any WWE interest in the team or in either individual.

(3) After watching the final WCW Nitro the other day, I still can’t believe Sting and Flair, as good as it was, were only given around 8 minutes in the ring. Why was this? I believe the best matches need time, it is virtually impossible to have a classic in that short space of time. Considering this was the final Nitro, could Vince not give something back to the fans? Finally, can you think of any “classic” matches that were unusually short. Finger poke of doom does not count.

Bear in mind that the match was Vince’s idea to pay tribute to both Flair and Sting, and that Flair was hardly at the top of his game at the final Nitro, so it was unlikely he’d be able to put out a 15-minute plus classic. He was coming off surgery and had barely wrestled in the previous year, and he was out of shape. Sting was working through shoulder pain. With everything else they needed to get done on the show (title changes, interviews with talent, Vince’s gloating etc.) they were likely under sever time constraints, even more so since they had to synchronise with Raw for Shane’s segment.

In terms of classics that didn’t get enough time…Hogan-Yokozuna from Mania 9? No? How about Michaels-HHH for the European title? Still no? OK. The first ever AJ Styles-Kurt Angle match was given away on Impact and was way too short. Then again, you could say the same about a lot of Impact matches. Other than that, I’m drawing a complete blank. The comments section will love this question though.

Tim, possibly the Enchanter, has two questions:

Hey Chris thought I’d say you are doing a fine job with this article. Anyway I had a couple questions I’d like to ask you:
1. Why do some wrestlers wear gloves?

Various reasons. With some, like The Undertaker and Ken Shamrock, it was part of their gimmick. With some it’s aesthetics. It’s also a convenient place to hide a blade, but of course you can’t just wear them in matches where you’ll be blading so they get worn more often. Some wrestlers also wear them to provide protection for punches and inadvertent hand impact, but this is less common.

2. I have heard that the Smackdown were Brock/Big Show explode the ring was planned. If it was planned, why would Vince risk potential serious harm to these two?

Bear in mind that every time a wrestler steps into the ring, they are risking serious harm. To the best of my knowledge it has never been confirmed or denied that the collapsing ring was planned, although it certainly makes sense in the context of the story (two behemoths fighting it out) and as a way to extend the feud while letting the two interact physically in a match without giving away a result on free TV. The risk would have been highly controlled: the ring would have had to be on hydraulics, probably 2 sets (since if you watch closely, one side of the ring drops before the other). Both wrestlers would have been prone and close to mid-ring following the superplex, which would be the safest place to be. The ref would have known it was coming and braced for impact. As with any stunt there would have been an element of danger, but that’s what makes the stuff breathtaking. Vince knew what he was doing, and if either guy felt it was not safe they could have said no. Either way the spot remains one of the most visually impressive I’ve ever seen on free TV.

Rob wants to know about a shameful moment in WWF history:

What was the deal with the Gobbely Gooker? Back in the day it was speculated that it was Ted DiBiase’s mystery-wrestler at the Survivor Series (ended up being the Undertaker of course) or that it was King Kong Bundy. After a couple of months of hype, was the plan REALLY just to have a guy dressed up in a turkey suit do somersaults with Mean Gene? Was there ever a plan for the Gooker to be a wrestler perhaps? Was this just a last minute thing due to them not being able to secure an impact player?

Funny you should mention that, because I remember seeing the shows before Survivor Series where they were hyping the big egg and how all would be revealed at Survivor Series. I also remember somehow seeing previews for the Royal Rumble BEFORE I got to watch that Survivor Series and surmising that Saba Simba was going to be in the egg, since we hadn’t seen him before. Whatever plans there may have been were quickly scrapped when everyone and his dog panned the gimmick. They must have realised that nobody they had lined up to début would have made sense coming out of a giant egg. Either that or whoever came up with the idea was on potent hallucinogens. Hector Guerrero played the Gooker both at Survivor Series when he hatched and at Mania X-Seven in the Gimmick Battle Royal, the only match I have ever given 6 stars.

Patrick wants to know about submissions

My question this week is about submissions. Back in the day, when a wrestler got you in their submission finisher, the opponent would tap out almost instantly. Nowadays, they struggle to try and make it to the ropes, enduring the pain. Why is that? Are we supposed to believe they can tolerate their ankle, spine, knee whatever being twisted/bent for all that time? I understand how wrestling is staged, but they obviously try to come off as real. And when I watch UFC and guys tapping out almost instantly when caught in a move like the ankle lock, then I turn to a Kurt Angle match and see Kurt twisting ankles for 2 – 3 minutes while the other guy tries to make it to the ropes, it looks kinda silly. Then, next weeks show, the ankle is fine!

Ah, but don’t you know? Nobody watches UFC! Vince said so! You raise a good point, and I think it’s one they’re aware of because I’ve noticed in recent weeks that people are tapping a lot faster in certain circumstances. It depends on the move and the victim; for example Noble’s armbar has been making people tap right away, but any time someone puts on a Sharpshooter now the victim is going to struggle and make it to the ropes. Part of it is the need to increase drama: since we know people have tapped to these moves in the past, it makes it possible that the victim will tap this time. If everyone tapped as soon as a submission went on, then the ending to every match would be predictable. There might also be a hint of desire to show that wrestlers are tougher than MMA fighters, but I don’t think anyone is buying that.

411mania regular TheMidnightPunk detects some favouritism, maybe?

so why does WWE let Even Bourne use the Shooting Star, but not others like Paul London, THE Brain Kendrick, and John Morrison?

Bourne is the exception rather than the rule. Before he was allowed to use the SSP he had to demonstrate to the road agents that he could perform it safely every time. Paul London may well be allowed to use it when/if he ever wrestles and wins a match again, but when he was told not to use it he kept on doing it on at least 2 occasions. Morrison has used a springboard corkscrew moonsault, which in my mind looks better anyway, and Kendrick’s new heel gimmick doesn’t really lend itself to pretty top-rope moves, so for all we know he may be able to use it if the situation warrants.

Jay has a question about REALLY short-lived gimmicks:

I remember going to a WWF show once and seeing a character called The Blacksmith. Then I never saw him again. Was this a one-night gimmick?

Wow, you guys sure know how to scrape the barrel. The Blacksmith lasted precisely one show before becoming Man Mountain Rock, who was a big guy with a Fujiwara armbar finisher. Didn’t make much sense but the name they gave it (The Whammy Bar) ruled all.

Were there any other one-night gimmicks? Also, you’re not as good as Cook.

Thank you. I know. You’re not as good at the questions as Manu Bumb. And yes, there were. Mike Shaw played Friar Ferguson in one match, and there was of course the infamous Phantasio.

Another 411 regular, Manu Bumb chimes in with an eclectic assortment:

What’s Brad Rheingans up to these days? I’ve seen him on the old AWA shows on ESPN Classic, he’s on the Mr. Perfect dvd, but I could’ve sworn he was working for TNA right now. Is he still with them, or did he move on to other things?

Last I heard he was helping out with training at TNA but was not officially working for them. He’s got a fairly impressive list of trainees, so that made sense for Jarrett.

for “rap is crap”, did they really play the instruments? i see Bobby Duncan Jr on guitar, barry on drums, and I’m assuming the other guy is Kendall Windham – were they really playing the song?

I know this will never happen, but how great would it be if that song showed up on Rock Band or Guitar Hero?

They weren’t playing the instruments, they weren’t even doing a particularly good job of pretending. Having this theme on Rock Band or Guitar Hero would absolutely rock. They need to do a Wrestling Theme pack with Rap is Crap, the Demolition theme, Real American…

what the hell is R-Truth even supposed to stand for?  thats like calling Jeff hardy “J-Coke”, or HHH “H-glass-ceiling”.  well, not exactly, but you get my point.   its just the strangest damn name I’ve ever heard, even moreso than hornswaggle.  Where does the R fit in?  Sure, its his name, but WWE doesn’t acknowledge that TNA exists, and most of their fans don’t either, so they wont know what his name is, they just see R-Truth.

You sort of answered your own question, it is a throwback to his TNA gimmick of Ron “The Truth” Killings. To be honest though I don’t think many people care where the name came from. When was the last time you heard HHH referred to as “Hunter Hearst Helmsley”? It is strange than WWE would make such a blatant (for those of us who watch both promotions) reference to his old character, something not seen since the height of the Monday Night Wars, especially since they haven’t made a habit of doing so with previous defectors (Monty Brown, Chris Harris). The closest they came was with Shannon Moore, who kept almost the same gimmick when he returned to WWE.

Jack the Ripper returns with 3 varied questions:

1.Why does Randy Orton always end up dropping the World title to Triple H.I know he has only had two reigns 1 World Heavyweight 1 WWE but why couldn’t he drop it to anyone else?

I’ll resist the obvious Huntor the Barberrier joke and put it down to right place, right time. Orton’s first title run was tied with his failed face turn and they needed to end both quickly. Since the feud with HHH was already going when it became obvious that Orton as a face champ was selling as well as Scott Hall’s Guide to Sobriety, it made sense to do the quick change. Orton’s second run was a lot longer, booked a lot better and generated a lot more heat, but HHH hadn’t held the title in a long time (barring the 2-hour No Mercy “run”) and with Cena being kept away from the title for a while was the natural choice (again) to take it. Orton’s injury may have had something to do with it, but it’s likely that HHH would have won that match anyway.

2.Is the X-Division title a secondary title or a cruiserweight title cause every guy I’ve seen hold it looks within the cruiserweight limits?

Well Samoa Joe held the belt twice, and he’s no cruiserweight. When TNA first introduced the X-Division it was touted as having No Limits. That’s kind of fallen by the wayside recently, but Sonny Siaki competed in the X-Division for a while and Kurt Angle is a former X-Division champion, and he’s about 10 pounds over the traditional cruiserweight limit. Aside from those 3 examples, the X-Division title has been held by cruiserweights, so the argument could be made that it’s more a cruiser title than a secondary one. However in the absence of any other singles title in TNA, and as long as there is no “official” weight restriction on the division, it’s the de facto secondary title in TNA.

3.If I wanted to become a professional wrestler how do I go back signing up for wrestling school and wrestling in the indy scene and such? Also do you know of any wrestling schools in the California area?

There’s a list of wrestling schools in California here. Your best bet is to go to a school with an established name behind it, like All Pro Wrestling Boot Camp, which is taught by Mike Modest. If you’re out west though, your best bet is Storm Wrestling Academy in Calgary. Going to a school that is headed by someone with contacts is your best way to get into the business. You might try asking around at a PWG show, but be careful who you ask, there are a LOT of scammers out there.

Toddo has questions about title runs as leverage, and their importance:

Alright… All the recent talk about TNA contracts coming up, and the potential of Captain Charisma coming back to the E, got me wondering…
Has there ever been an instance where a big star signed with WCW, ECW, or WWE, and had a guaranteed title run written into the contract?

This used to happen all the time, and may start happening again if WWE continues to try and lure away TNA talent. During the Monday Night Wars the only way you could guarantee the signing of a big name was to offer them the sun, moon and stars. People like Jeff Jarrett benefited greatly as a result. It also wasn’t restricted to world titles, as several people were given guaranteed IC/US title runs when they signed, back when those titles mattered. The most famous example of a promised title run would probably be Goldberg’s 1-year deal with WWE that saw him début the night after Mania 19. If WWE do in fact sign Christian back, you can bet there’ll be at least a serious run at a title involved.

And as an extension of that, I know 98% of wrestlers have a goal of Main Eventing a WrestleMania, and that usually means world champion match. But how important are the titles to the wrestlers? Do they really feel a level of prestige when they win them like say an MMA star or a boxer would, or is it just another pay day bonus to them?

It depends on the wrestler for the most part. Old school wrestlers certainly put stock in holding the title, and Ric Flair has said on numerous occasions that he wanted to be world champion as soon as he started wrestling with the NWA. By and large a wrestler who grew up as a wrestling fan will put more value in a belt than just a pay raise. Having said that, I don’t suppose many of them are turning down the extra money…

The Way I C It…

This week’s questions come from Weisz, and there are a few of them…

I’ll skip the shallow pleasantries (though that does remind me, you’re doing a great job)and get right to the questions.

1; I’m a big fan of women’s wrestling, thanks mostly to the evolution of Trish. I remember watching her surpass all the other women’s wrestlers in WWE to become the best, and I enjoyed watching her improve most of all. That’s the reason I’m such a fan of the WWE women of today, since most of them are still in that learning stage. Watching Maryse, Kelly and, most of all, Candice Michelle grow into some level of talent has been cool to watch. In your opinion, which of the current ‘diva’ wrestlers (i.e. Kelly, Maria, Maryse, and depending on how talented you think they are I guess you should include Katie, McCool and Jillian) will end up the most talented, or at least have the most long-term use in WWE?

Katie Lea and Jillian do not belong on that list as they are established talents who just don’t get a chance to show it. Hell before the WWE standard boob job, Jillian was regularly pulling off 450 splashes! I’ll preface my answer with two things: one, as long as she is with Taker Michelle McCool will be given every chance to have the most success. Second, the improvement shown by Candace, Maria, Maryse, Kelly Kelly and even Layla is astounding and is almost entirely down to Finlay. In terms of pure improvement I have to go with Kelly Kelly, who has youth, look and willingness to learn on her side.

2; I’ve been considering how I’d like to see Austin return for at least one final match before the legit retirement, even though I really never got into Austin and just as I was beginning to he started that god awful “What?” chant. I’ve always thought that, especially with WrestleMania being in Texas next year, it would make for an awesome crowd and a nostalgia rush if he faced either Shawn Michaels and/or The Undertaker. Now, logic says he should wrestle the likes of Randy Orton or Edge (and what an awesome feud that would be too, with either man), but we know Austin has had great chemistry with both Taker and Michaels. Michaels can get a good (and safe) match with anyone, so it would make sense for him to wrestle Austin, but on the other hand Austin vs. Taker might make a compelling argument to the end of Taker’s winning streak. What do you think?

I pray to any god who will listen that Austin does not end Taker’s streak. That either needs to go to a young star on the cusp of greatness who can be trusted not to fuck up/run to TNA, or it needs to not happen. Austin-HBK is possible and I wouldn’t mind seeing it in the slightest. Austin-Orton, Austin-Edge, Austin-Punk, Austin-DiBiase (running off his dad bringing Austin in) and even Austin-Cena would all be money.

3; I’ve really been digging the WWE gimmick pay per views lately. Royal Rumble, No Way Out, One Night Stand, Night of Champions and Unforgiven, all very good pay per views in my opinion. With Cyber Sunday and Survivor Series around the corner, I’m already looking forward to those two as well considering the other ppvs success so far this year. Do you think that if they keep No Way Out and Unforgiven as gimmick pay per views, it would be silly to put the King of the Ring Tournament on the Judgement Day pay per view? If they bring it back next year at all, that is. Would that be gimmick overload or a good way to brighten up an otherwise usually forgettable time of the year? I also really miss solo branded pay per views, and I think with the ECW talent agreement with RAW and SmackDown that it would be a good idea to return to them. One RAW PPV, then a SmackDown PPV, with ECW filling out their middle cards. If they go with keeping the gimmicked PPVs, then there’s Backlash, Great American Bash, No Mercy and Armageddon to be split between RAW and SmackDown.

I’m a big fan of tournaments and have always enjoyed the King of the Ring concept, even if some of the choices (Mabel? Billy Gunn? Savio Vega wrestling 4 matches???) have been on the kook side of questionable. Personally I’d rather see it brought back as its own pay per view as a one-night tournament, replacing one of the “newer” ones. If you must put it elsewhere, I’d rather Judgement Day than a random Raw.

4; Whatever happened to the rumours of adding international brands? I mean, they were somewhat bad ideas (as an Australian fan, I remember hearing they were looking into stars from each country – we’ve only got one or two notable wrestlers, and one of those is Nathan Jones), but at the same time I thought that it’d be good even if it did somewhat over flood the market (okay, maybe somewhat over flood the market isn’t a good way of saying it, but you get the point). Think the idea is still a possibility? Even if not as large brands, maybe smaller like what TNA started as?

Oh come now, Australia has the awesome Massive Q! FEAR MASSIVE Q! The national brand idea has not been mentioned in some time, probably because nobody anywhere has any money and no North American companies are looking to expand right now. I doubt it will happen.

Well that’s about all we have time for today boys and girls. I’m off to watch the election coverage. Small, Bayani, Lansdell and the 200th Edition Spectacular of Fact or Fiction (with complete lack of Lansdell, as Csonka fears me) will all be in tomorrow. Stay cool, Rock hard.

Lansdellicious – Out.