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411 Fact or Fiction MMA: Is Marlon Moraes Ready for a Tittle Shot?

June 6, 2018 | Posted by Lorenzo Vasquez

Welcome back to another edition of 411 Fact or Fiction MMA! I’m your host, Lorenzo Vasquez III, and it is my pleasure to bring you another round of sparring in the world of fact or fiction MMA. The last time around, Mark Radulich and Dan Plunkett gave us six hard rounds. Unfortunately, for Mark, Dan was able to clean house with devastating high kicks and thunderous rights. Thank you both for your contribution.

This week, the ravishing, witty Evan Zivin returns to challenge the hard-hitting last rider, Robert Winfree. They will lock horns over weight-cutting, GSP making a tournament run, Marlon Moraes climbing up the ladder, and much more! Grab some grub and sit back because it’s time for another round of, 411 Fact or Fiction MMA!

TALE OF THE TAPE
RED CORNER
Robert “The Last Rider” Winfree
Contributor/Live Coverage Guru/Host, 411 MMA Zone/411 Ground and Pound Radio Show
9-5-3

VS

BLUE CORNER
Evan “White Tiger” Zivin
Contributor, 411 MMA Zone
7-7-1

The idea of having a tournament featuring four individuals—GSP, Nate Diaz, Khabib Nurmagomedov, and Conor McGregor—was insanely ridiculous for the UFC to conceptualize and believe it could happen with everything happening among three of those individuals.

Robert Winfree: FICTION I take a few issues with the semantics here. First of all the sport of MMA is fundamentally insane, consequently aiming for the stars or the perfect alignment of said stars might be unlikely but is hardly outlandish. I take issue with this being a fault of conceptualization, you can easily see why they thought about this as it would guarantee three big PPV’s with the two first-round fights taking place adjacent to each other but on different cards then, of course, the actual finals. I’m also not convinced the UFC believed they’d get it, rather they had a pie in the sky idea then leaked it when it fell apart to put the thought out into the MMA world to further percolate and they’ll try something similar in the future. It’s still highly unlikely, but the UFC needs to make a lot of money and while the new ESPN deal going into effect in 2019 is great for them they still have the rest of this year as well as their PPV revenue to consider. Again, unlikely in the extreme but hardly insane and even if it is insane, so is the sport so it fits right in.

Evan Zivin: FACT Let’s do a roll call of this mini-tournament. There’s the former champion who never defended the belt, has no interest in fighting because there’s no one in MMA who can secure him a nine figure payday, and shouldn’t even still be with the organization because he has no qualms about attacking referees and injuring fighters by THROWING A DOLLY AT A FRIGGIN’ BUS; there’s the top Pound-for-Pound great who has never made a cut to lightweight before, let alone has ever competed at the weight, but is deserving of a shot at the title because he’s won titles in the next two divisions up, which apparently guarantees him a title fight whenever he wants it (I’m waiting for him to eat a bunch of Popeye’s and call out Daniel Cormier…); there’s the “American Ninja” who says he’ll fight anyone yet hasn’t for almost two years because he wants $20 million to do it (God bless Nate Diaz); and there’s the champion who won the title without beating the champion or the interim champion and averages one fight a year and struggles to make weight, making his inclusion in a tournament highly problematic.

Seriously, how did UFC think this was going to happen? That’s a lot of big personalities right there. Is Dana so egotistical and delusional that he felt he could pull this off? Nate and Conor aren’t fighting again unless UFC is willing to shell out some serious coin and, while inclusion in a lightweight title tourney may entice GSP, he says he’s still not 100% from the health issues that plagued him in the leadup to and aftermath of his win over Michael Bisping last November. At least Khabib says he’s ready to fight again soon, assuming training during Ramadan doesn’t mess him up. Or he doesn’t get injured. Or he doesn’t screw up his weight cut.

Yeah, this was never going to happen. Nice try, though, Dana. A for effort.

Yair Rodriguez is back in the UFC because the UFC needs to capitalize on potential stars.

Robert Winfree: FICTION Yair Rodriguez is back in the UFC because Yair Rodriguez caved to the UFC’s financial demands. Rodriguez might still emerge as a star but to date, his biggest name value win is either Alex Caceres or Andre Fili and in his one step up to the elite level Frankie Edgar massacred him. Simply put, Rodriguez blinked in the staring game around the negotiations.

Evan Zivin: FICTION Yair is back in the UFC because the UFC does over 40 events a year and needs ranked talent with enough of a name that they can headline Fight Night cards. Plus, while Yair says he got a bunch of offers from other promotions, I’m sure none of them compared to the pittance that UFC offered him to stick around and fight Zabit Magomedsharipov. It’s probably for the best, though, as the UFC is still the best place for him to develop and build his name, maybe to the point where he can be a legit title threat. UFC does need to capitalize on potential stars but Yair being back has more to do with his specific circumstance than a general need to promote talent, although he could benefit from a strong promotional push, as could a lot of other young fighters.

Sorry, Combate Americas. Better luck next time.

Marlon Moraes’ victory over Jimmie Rivera was too quick, still leaving us with questions; hence, Moraes’ next fight shouldn’t be a title fight but against Dominick Cruz or a rematch with Raphael Assuncao.

Your Name: FICTION Have we really reached a point where we question a guy with the overall record of Moraes because he’s finished both of his last opponents in the first round? Moraes isn’t some out of the blue guy like, for those of us who remember him, Houston Alexander. Moraes has fought some of the best, for the record, I still believe he won the Assuncao fight, and he just wrecked a guy known for solid durability and great all-around skills. Bantamweight is in a great place right now in terms of roster depth, we don’t need to set up a gulf at the top where the top three of Cruz, Dillashaw, and Garbrandt form some kind of rock paper scissors scenario. Moraes has finished his last two opponents and has just one, dubious, loss in six years. Give the guy a title shot, it’s possible he loses but he’s earned a shot.

Evan Zivin: FICTION It was a quick win but it was a damn impressive one. Marlon faced a top five 5 fighter with a 20 fight winning streak who had never been stopped and knocked him out with a head kick. Marlon has defeated 3 Top 10 bantamweights, which is more than Cody Garbrandt had done when he was given a title shot. I see no question that Marlon is ready to fight for the title. If TJ Dillashaw defeats Garbrandt in their upcoming rematch, I think a fight with Marlon would be gangbusters.

I see the logic in having Marlon take one more fight against another Top 5 opponent before challenging for the title, but I think I’m good with him getting the next shot, as it’d be a fresh, exciting matchup. Plus, we all know the next shot isn’t going to Raphael Assuncao. Maybe if he throws something at a bus…

SWITCH!

Whether Darren Till legitimately beat Stephen Thomson or not, we’re just glad a potential welterweight title contender wasn’t eliminated.

Evan Zivin: FACT I guess, as I’m not a fan of the UFC cannibalizing itself (and if there’s such an interest in creating stars, then the UFC shouldn’t want to do that either) but, if they’re going to, it should at least serve a purpose. The Thompson/Till fight should have either legitimized Till as a future title contender or reestablished Thompson in his quest to get back to the belt. Having Till win a controversial decision with very little action accomplished neither. I can’t think of anyone right now who would care if TIll gets a title shot. Well, other than the population of Liverpool. I guess they’ve been desperate for attention since The Beatles broke up or something.

Oh well. It probably won’t matter much when the UFC begins the build to Till vs. Covington for the welterweight championship sometime next year…*WINK*

Robert Winfree: FACT I’m taking minor issue with the notion that Till has retained his contender status, but more on that over the next couple of questions. In reality, fans should celebrate, or at least acknowledge the value in, turnover at the top of the division. Till still has a lot of questions around him, chief among them his longevity in the division, but if you want an example of what happens to a division without turnover take a look at the current state of light heavyweight. Or don’t, it’s incredibly depressing.

Adding more weight classes will not solve the weight cutting dilemma; the better answer likely deals with regulating fighters to weight classes depending on their walk-around-weight.

Evan Zivin: FACT More weight classes will help, as it will provide more options for fighters who are stuck between weight classes as well as fighters who are flunking out of one of the established weight classes, but it obviously won’t solve the weight cutting dilemma. Cutting weight is too ingrained in the culture of professional fighting. The only way to stop severe weight cuts (or any) is to ban them. I don’t see that happening anytime soon but, if the emphasis for athletic commissions is on fighter safety, I could see it being proposed and implemented some day.

Either that or do away with weight classes, like the good ol’ days. That would work too.

Robert Winfree: FACT I’m taking fact here based mostly on the first half of the statement and the second’s relationship to it. Adding more weight classes might help a few fighters, the Kevin Lee’s of the world for example, but for every fighter who’d get an optimal weight class, you’d get three or four fighters at the higher one who’d start cutting more extreme amounts of weight for the size advantage. I’m not saying more weight classes is the worst idea in the world, but let’s not delude ourselves about what would come about if it were implemented. I’m not the biggest fan of more regulation, it’s the libertarian in me, but taking a longer look at how much weight fighters are cutting relative to what they walk around it seems healthier generally than blindly throwing more weight classes into the equation.

Fighter’s coaches/corners should also be fined or disciplined when situations like the video of Darren Till’s brutal weight cut are discovered.

Evan Zivin: FICTION Personally, I think coaches and cornermen should be arrested and prosecuted for trying to murder their fighters during fight week, but I don’t really think it’s the athletic commissions’ place to punish anyone other than the fighter for their weight cut, and that’s only if they fail to make weight. I do think commissions should keep more of a watchful on fighters during fight week to see the lengths they are having to go to cut weight and act within their authority if they feel a fighter is pushing themselves too far to do it. I thought they were already doing this to some extent by checking weight throughout a fighter’s camp but I guess not every state is as thorough as California is trying to be.

Also, if athletic commissions aren’t willing to reverse controversial outcomes when the personnel under their jurisdiction (judges and referees) screw up, what sense would it make to take action when a weight cut video is released after the fight has taken place? If the athletic commission is doing their job, they’d be well aware of what’s happening as it’s happening.

Do your job, commissions. Or not. At the very least, don’t cancel a fight over chapped lips. That’s just silly.

Robert Winfree: FACT It’s partially a reactionary position to take because looking at extreme weight cuts is deeply uncomfortable, if you want to follow a rabbit hole go on youtube and look up fighters with bad weight cuts and watch a bunch car wrecks between a fighter and a sauna. That said this isn’t just about the emotion of the situation, there’s a liability issue at hand. The purpose of a corner/coaches is, first and foremost, to protect their fighter. In the fight that means monitoring their health, giving them insight and adjustments to better fight and protect themselves, and stopping a fight if they can’t see any upside to it continuing. All of this is also regulated and licensed by a government body, and if/when a fighter dies they have to demonstrate they took enough preventative steps to not be found liable. That’s the big thing that’s likely to push some policy like this one forward if a commission is aware of extreme and possibly unsafe weight cutting practices they have to demonstrate they’ve taken reasonable steps to curtail it or face increased liability in the face of injury or death. There’s also the morality argument, that a group around a fighter should have the best interest of said fighter forefront in their mind and they need to take a serious look at times about whether that entails halting either a fight or a badly handled weight cut.

So who won? You’ve got until midnight eastern on Tuesday to vote, so make sure you make your voice heard!

And that’s it for today but, as always, we’ll be back next week with another contest! And please, be sure to vote!

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