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411 Fact or Fiction MMA: Would Bones Beat Liddell?
Welcome back to another edition of 411 Fact or Fiction MMA, and I’m your host, Wyatt Beougher! Last week, Eric Moore and Dan Plunkett discussed whether or not they thought Fedor would fight for Bellator in 2016 and also whether or not the circus-like atmosphere of Bellator 149 would eventually do damage to the promotion’s reputation. When the dust settled, it proved to be a very close bout, with Eric picking up the 17-15 win. Great effort from both guys, and I expect nothing less from this week’s competitors, as Evan Zivin and Lorenzo Vasquez III are going to talk Silva/Bisping, McGregor/Diaz, and more in the final bout before the start of this year’s tournament!
TALE OF THE TAPE
RED CORNER
Lorenzo “Corpse Grinder” Vasquez III
Contributor, 411 MMA Zone
3-0-1
VS
BLUE CORNER
Evan “White Tiger” Zivin
Contributor, 411 MMA Zone
1-5-1
1.) Even with arguably the biggest win of his career over Anderson Silva coming on Saturday and his ability to sell fights and draw in the UK, there is little chance that Michael Bisping will receive a middleweight title shot.
Lorenzo Vasquez III: FACT When I first read the statement my initial response was FICTION, but only because an injury here or there; or a drug failure right over there; or maybe this guy won’t accept a short notice bout, and it is possible Michael Bisping could actually find himself fighting for some gold. Yeah, imagine that. But, the reality is Michael still has to string together some impressive victories (at least 1 against a top three) to earn his shot, and the problem for him is he is past his prime. The Anderson Silva victory is a big victory for “The Count” but let’s face it, it wasn’t the most dominating performance and it wasn’t the Anderson Silva that buried the middleweight division to a depth unheard of before. Michael still has to get through Jacare Souza and possibly the winner of Rockhold vs. Weidman II. In addition, his last few fights haven’t really stood out among his peers. Sorry Michael, but it likely isn’t happening.
Evan Zivin: FICTION Michael Bisping just defeated Anderson Silva. THE Anderson Silva. The man who many people consider to be the greatest fighter of all time. The man who held the UFC Middleweight Championship for 7 years and defended it 10 times, more than anyone else. He was also the man who was ranked #5 at the time of the fight on Saturday. Bisping, who is now in the top five, according to UFC.com’s always “official” rankings, just defeated a top 5 middleweight. Men have gotten title shots for doing less. I could totally see Bisping getting a title shot. He could even get the next shot, the only thing possibly preventing that is if UFC decides to give it to the winner of the Jacare-Belfort fight. That would be the fair thing to do but UFC’s rarely been about doing what’s fair if there’s money to be made. If Bisping wants to talk himself into the next title fight, he can. He’s chosen not to so far but he totally could. Or he can try to get the Nick Diaz fight next and fight for the title after that. That’d be two money fights for the UFC so I’m sure they’d be cool with it.
2.) With Dana White admitting that Donald Cerrone accepted a short notice fight with Conor McGregor at UFC 196, the selection of Nate Diaz, a noted and vocal malcontent, is baffling.
Lorenzo Vasquez III: FICTION It really isn’t all that baffling. Diaz is the money fight, especially on short notice. Diaz, not only is the money fight, but he is more of a safe bet. Think about it. You can’t have the man that recently lost quickly to Rafael dos Anjos beat McGregor. It would ruin all possibilities of McGregor super fights. At least that is my opinion. I’m not saying the fight is fixed or Diaz will be a roll-over. Anything could happen, that’s what is so exciting about this sport. Nonetheless, Diaz sells, and is the safe option in regards to protecting the money machine, Conor McGregor.
Evan Zivin: FICTION That’s the fight Conor wanted. It’s been said Conor’s been interested in fighting Nate since Aldo pulled out of UFC 189. Nate’s been joking that the plan for UFC 196 was always for the two of them to clash. That’s obviously not true but when Rafael dos Anjos pulled out of the fight and everyone and their mother said on Twitter they’d fill in, Conor had his list of options and Nate was always at the top of it. I’m sure Cerrone was on there too but Conor views Nate as the better challenge. Plus, Nate beat Cerrone so, if Conor beats Nate, he can go all transitive on the media and say he beat Cerrone too.
When you have less than two weeks to put together a new main event, there just aren’t going to be that many realistic options. Nate was an option, one that Conor and UFC knew could come together and build a lot of interest in under two weeks (people are still talking about the press conference they did last week). The fight may even end up doing better on pay-per-view than the dos Anjos fight would have, and there’s nothing baffling about making more money. Bring on the red panties and etc.
3.) Rob Hinds, the official in the Kendall Grove/Francisco France fight, was too slow stepping in to pull Grove off and France took a lot of unnecessary damage as a result.
Lorenzo Vasquez III: FICTION I think the ref stepped in as fast as he could from his position inside the cage. Could he have had better positioning? Yes, of course, but that doesn’t mean it was a late stoppage. One unanswered hit is one too many, don’t get me wrong and in this case it looks like Francisco took about three. However, we’ve seen much worse plenty of times. At the very least, in this case, the ref appeared to try to stop the fight as fast as he could and that has to count for something. I will say, however, that he should have had better positioning inside the cage, but slow to stop the fight, he was not.
Evan Zivin: FACT This is like splitting hairs but I will say the referee could have been slightly quicker. If you watch the fight (and I did after the fact, as my interest in Bellator 150 plummeted after the Galvao-Dantas fight fell out), the referee runs over as soon as Grove lands the blow that knocks France out but he hesitates to stop the fight immediately, allowing Grove to throw two hammerfists that don’t look like they land cleanly but were definitely strikes he didn’t need to throw. Was it a terrible stoppage? No, but, if the question is whether the referee could have been a little quicker in stopping the fight, sure he could have. Despite that, I won’t fault the ref too much for his work here.
This is an interesting question, Wyatt. Were people complaining about the stoppage online? Were they doing that when they should have been complaining about the fact that it’s 2016 and Kendall Grove is still on my TV? People are crazy.
SWITCH!
4.) David Rickels would make an excellent opponent for Benson Henderson’s lightweight debut in Bellator.
Evan Zivin: FACT Dude, David Rickels would make an excellent opponent for anyone. Ben Henderson, Josh Thomson, Phil Davis, King Mo, Fedor…it doesn’t matter because David Rickels is awesome. He’s a man who comes to fight and competes with a “kill or be killed” mentality. That’s why he’s one of Bellator’s most popular homegrown fighters. I mean, a fight with Bendo may not be the best idea as far as skillsets go, as I’d expect Ben to run right through Rickels, but it’d be damn entertaining to watch. If the goal of Henderson’s first fight at 155 is to get people excited to see him compete in the division, a battle with The Caveman would be the way to do it.
Lorenzo Vasquez III: FICTION Absolutely not! Not when there is Josh Thomson, Michael Chandler, and Will Brooks. Any one of those three would make a suitable lightweight debut for Henderson in Bellator.
5.) In spite of Conor McGregor and his coach both calling out Frankie Edgar and Jose Aldo for turning down last minute fights with McGregor at UFC 196, both Edgard and Aldo made the best decision for their careers.
Evan Zivin: FACT I can’t fault either man for not taking the short notice fight. It’s what they should have done. Sure, both men have gone on record saying they’d fight Conor whenever and wherever, but we all know that doing so wouldn’t be the smartest move to make if the opportunity were to present itself, which it did. Conor is one of the best fighters on the planet. You’d have to be pretty nuts to agree to fight him on short notice when you haven’t at least been in camp training for a fight (oh, but good luck Nate!). Neither Edgar nor Aldo have been in camp for a fight. They aren’t scheduled for a fight so why would they be? Plus, Edgar is injured and Aldo is less than three months removed from getting knocked unconscious. Even if both of these guys wanted the fight, there’s a good chance an athletic commission wouldn’t allow either to take it. So, it’s for the best that they wait, even if both may have to wait even longer now to get their hands on The Notorious One. Get back in line, boys.
Lorenzo Vasquez III: FACT Like it or not, the answer is a solid FACT in this case, especially if they’re after a gold belt. At this moment, there is no way you want to be in the Octagon with Conor McGregor if you’re not 100%. The Irishman is on a roll and someone on that type of a run is someone you better come prepared for to the best of your abilities. As far as Frankie Edgar is concerned, he has the skill to make Conor work and beat him along the way. However, two weeks is too short. And, an injury isn’t going to do anything but hinder Edgar against an agile, precise, dynamic, and gritty Irishman. Jose Aldo, on the other hand, should be nowhere near any talk of him fighting anybody at the moment. After getting laid out cold in the manner in which he did, Aldo should be looking for an extended sabbatical to let himself recover from such a devastating knockout.
6.) Jon Jones would demolish an in-his-prime Chuck Liddell, regardless of Liddell’s assertions otherwise.
Evan Zivin: FACT I don’t think Jones would demolish Liddell, since Jones lacks the one thing that would allow him to demolish people (knockout power in his hands) but I could see him beating Chuck if they were to fight. Jones would likely have to utilize a defensive strategy against the aggressive Iceman but Jones knows how to use his reach to land shots while staying out of harm’s way. That’s how I see that fight playing out: Jones staying defensive and counterstriking for the first half of the fight, opening up when Liddell tires and starts to slow down later in the fight, assuming he doesn’t make a mistake earlier in the fight that opens himself up to a spinning elbow or kick to the face. It’d be an interesting fight. I’d be rooting for Chuck the whole time but I know Jones would more than likely win. That makes me sad…I’m gonna go play EA Sports UFC and see if that makes me feel better.
Yeah, I know. It won’t. Stupid submission system…I bet being able to play as Mike Tyson will make me forget about how bad this is…
Lorenzo Vasquez III: FACT I’ll go with FACT, but I’m not too sure “demolish” is the proper term. Jones is an athletic beast and he can take a punch. I can see an in-his-prime Liddell making Jones work; but, ultimately, Jones would be the superior athlete and that would guide him to victory against Liddell. Liddell’s takedown defense would help keep Jones off him for sometime and away from the clinch. And Liddell’s overhands, hooks, and high kicks would be powerful tools against Jones. But not for the entire fight. Eventually Jones would batter the Iceman using his range and then get inside and unleash some more damage until he got the finish via TKO or submission. Jones is just a more gifted fighter then Liddell was, even in his prime.
So who won? Did Lorenzo remain unbeaten, or was Evan able to hand him his first loss of the season on the eve of this year’s tournament? You’ve got until midnight eastern on Saturday to vote, so make sure you make your voice heard!
And that’s it for today, but we’ll be back next week with another contest! As always, if there’s anything you’d like to see featured in a future edition, leave your statement in the comments and I’ll add it in. Let me know what you thought in the comments or on Twitter. And please, be sure to vote!
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