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411’s Buy or Sell 11.27.10: New NWA Tag Champions, QuackSaw Challenges for CHIKARA Gold, Edwards Fights Through the Pain Again, and More!!!
Welcome everyone to Week 182 of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven’t been with us since the beginning, here’s the Reader’s Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411’s long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn’t mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.
Questions are sent out on Tuesday Night.
Samuel Berman: SELL. Dragon Gate USA has established itself as being able to put on an excellent product regardless of venue and extenuating circumstances. When the company debuted in Milwaukee earlier in the year, the scheduled ring (as in the actual RING) was a late no-show. DGUSA officials called in a favor and got a replacement, but were already working on plans for a show without a ring in case one couldn’t be found. If ever there were a company that could overcome silly issues like new venues and the like, it’s Dragon Gate USA.
Ryan Byers : SELL.Aside from the first couple of events, DGUSA really hasn’t been drawing that well no matter where they run. With the exception of the first couple of shows, it’s usually been 200 or 300 people who are extremely hardcore wrestling fans bound and determined to see the guys who are coming over from Japan. I have a feeling that the 200 or 300 wrestling fans who are willing to come out to a show that only 200 or 300 other guys care about will hunt down their show no matter what the venue for the event is.
Michael Ornelas : SELL.Fans in the city and will likely go where the event is, if they want to see it, regardless of familiarity. Also, it’s worth mentioning that the Japanese talents have even farther to travel if they go to the eastern United States, so fans would be more excited to see someone making a rare appearance in their area. I think the selling points of the show are too strong for fans to really care whether or not they run a new wrestling venue or not.
Ryan Byers : BUY. Absolutely. I know that people are always suspect of the guy who runs a promotion being involved in a high profile spot, but the fact of the matter is that, even though he’s the bookerman, Quack is viewed by the company’s fans as the face of CHIKARA and the best wrestler in the promotion. The Campeonatos de Parejas are still held by Ares and Claudio Castagnoli of Der Bruderschaft, a heel stable that has been dominating the promotion all year long. If you’re going to put their titles in jeopardy on the last show of the year in a manner that anybody will buy, you need the face of the promotion in the match. Quackenbush is the face of the promotion.
Michael Ornelas : BUY.And I think they should win it to carry the feud into 2011. This team is synonymous with CHIKARA and have represented the company in DG USA as well. If any team representing CHIKARA should start to get the best of the BDK, these guys are it. With the dark ending of last year’s finale, I think this year needs to end on a happy note.
Samuel Berman: BUY. The entire year of CHIKARA action has been leading to Quackenbush & Jigsaw earning their shot at current Campeones de Parejas Claudio Castagnoli & Ares. Now, what’s been unclear thus far is whether or not the BdK storyline is meant to be a one-year event or an ongoing issue leading into Season 10. I’m thinking we’ll get the answer to that question based solely on the result of this match. If Quackenbush & Jigsaw defeat the BdK and regain the titles for CHIKARA, then the threat has been neutralized. I’m leaning towards Castagnoli & Ares retaining because CHIKARA has built up Eddie Kingston as the ultimate hero for the company, not his trainer.
Michael Ornelas : BUY.Just because of the legacy. That’s about it and this was as close to a coin toss as I can get. The titles haven’t exactly been prestigious in a very long while, but it’s still championship gold for a good team on the Indy scene. I like these guys and hope this is a stepping stone for more championships in other promotions.
Samuel Berman: BUY. Of course the DCFC winning the titles is a major accomplishment. Any time a team is given the ball as the top duo for a company (especially for the first time), it’s a major step forward in their careers. The Dynasty saw a noteworthy raise in their national standing when they held the belts a couple of years ago, and I’m assuming the DCFC will see the same in coming months.
Ryan Byers : SELL. Why should it be? Yes, they ended a title reign which had gone on for something on the order of two years, but, when it comes to indy titles in the twenty-first century, the length of a reign is essentially meaningless if the indy isn’t running regularly. (What should be considered important instead is the statistic favored by the Japanese, i.e. the number of successful defenses – but that’s another topic for another day.) When you take the length of the prior reign out of consideration AND consider the fact that the only exposure that the NWA has that even begins to approach national recognition is a very young television show that almost nobody watches despite it being available for free on the internet, I fail to see why the NWA Titles mean anything in 2010.
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Samuel Berman: BUY. From a kayfabe standpoint at least. ROH would be smart to have King & Titus pull the upset over the former WWE tag champions, because upsets (even via nefarious means) are how young teams like the ANX begin to move up the ranks in fans’ eyes. For now, Haas & Benjamin have a glut of both name recognition and in-ring experience, but that doesn’t mean that King & Titus can’t take a big step forward when the teams meet in the ring.
Ryan Byers : BUY.If you watch the ten greatest All-Night Express matches and watch the ten greatest TWGTT (which I like to pronounce as “Twiggit”) matches, every match on the TWGTT list is going to to blow every match on the All-Night Express list out of the water. Combine that with the relative television exposure of each man and I don’t know how anybody could reasonably say that Titus and King even begin to approach the same league as Haas and Benjamin. However, that being said, I would like to point out the fact that one of the goals of bringing an act like Haas and Benjamin in to ROH should be to match them up against guys who aren’t on their level so that the folks who are lower on the totem pole can be elevated. Yes, the two teams aren’t on the same level, but that’s a GOOD thing.
Michael Ornelas : BUY.I love the All-Night Express, but Haas & Benjamin are former WWE Tag Team Champions. The World’s Greatest Tag Team have torn it up on Wrestlemania, held gold in the largest wrestling promotion around, and feel like a big deal. I may not say the ANE are “nowhere in the same league”, but I’d agree with “not in the same league”. Doesn’t sound as harsh. I do, however, think that the match between the two teams could be HUGE for Titus and King if they hold their own. I wouldn’t be surprised to see either of these teams hold Ring of Honor tag team gold in 2011. I just don’t see ANE as even being on the same level as the Briscoes yet, let alone Wolves, Kings or WGTT status.
Ryan Byers : SELL. First of all, I don’t know why a crowd of ROH fans in New York would react any differently than a crowd of ROH fans elsewhere in the country faced with this situation, and the implication that they WOULD react more positively makes it sound like the question is being written by a New York ROH fan with too high of an opinion of himself and his ilk. (I’m just pulling your leg there, Bauer.) Anyway, Edwards is red-hot in the eyes of the promotion’s fans right now, and if they legitimately believe that he’s injured they’re going to give him the benefit of the doubt because of that. In addition, “smart” wrestling fans as a whole have been a lot more forgiving of wrestlers taking time off due to injury ever since Chris Nowinski started to really hammer home the dangers of working through concussions. Yes, Eddie’s injury wasn’t a concussion, but I get a vibe that the issue has lead to a larger understanding of the dangers of the practice of “working hurt” that used to be considered so macho.
Michael Ornelas : SELL.I don’t think RoH fan views have changed, but I don’t think the location had anything to do with the reaction either. That just seems like a silly assumption. Eddie is well-liked by Ring of Honor fans due to the American Wolves association, Davey basically begging fans to cheer for Eddie whenever they’re both out there, being a champion, winning Survival of the Fittest, and other reasons. That said, there are always that group of fans who say popular guys are overrated. I think this may just be a case of the particular fans in that building at that given time.
Samuel Berman: sELL. I think we’re starting to see the backlash from fans to Edwards’ over-the-top push over the last year. While he’s a good (and still underrated) talent in the ring, and a blossoming star on the Independent scene, Edwards’ push still seems to be the result of a decision by ROH management rather than an organic development from the fans. When James Gibson made his run up the card in ROH in 2005, it was well received because it was something the fans wanted to see. The same goes for Kevin Steen & El Generico in 2007. Edwards is good, but for whatever reason doesn’t have the fan support to back up his current push.
Michael Ornelas : BUY.Despite saying last time that I disagreed with the notion of the Kings being foreign as a reason for not winning gold in Japan, I still don’t think they WILL win gold. I like them and think they could be very successful in Japan. I just don’t think with how involved they are in the big independent promotions in the USA that they’ll be able to give the time to be good champions in Japan.
Samuel Berman: BUY. I must admit that I have not been following much of Pro Wrestling NOAH as of late, so I cannot really weigh in with any authority here. I’ll buy because it’s been uncommon (if not completely unheard of) for gaijin to hold heavyweight titles in NOAH (though there are a number of instances of Americans holding the junior heavyweight belts). That said, I’m a huge fan of the Kings of Wrestling, and have been for a long time, and would love to see them hold NOAH’s tag straps.
Ryan Byers : BUY? I put a question mark at the end of this one because the outcome could differ based on how you interpret the question. That’s because Hero has already lost on this tour – but it was in a singles match to Kensuke Sasaki. If you’re just talking about matches as a team, though, they are in fact undefeated for this tour and I have a feeling that they will remain undefeated as a unit heading into their GHC Tag Team Title match with Yoshihiro Takayama & Takuma Sano on December 5. It’s just solid booking to build up your title contenders in such a manner, and, though NOAH has some severe problems with its booking as of late (as evidenced by the fact that nobody comes to their shows anymore), one of the things you can say for them is they almost never put a weak contender into a title match. I will say that I don’t expect Hero and Claudio to win the belts though, just because, if I recall correctly, this is the first defense for Takayama and Sano, and a loss in a Japanese first defense is exceedingly rare, especially to a team like the Kings of Wrestling who are not booked consistently on every NOAH tour.
Stay tuned for next week as two new people step up to the plate on Buy or Sell!
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