The Triumvirate of Truth 5.06.12 Extreme Rules Fallout, Bryan vs. Punk, Jericho Being Champion, More

It’s the fourteenth week over at the Triumvirate, and time for a little bit of clean up. Sometimes I get a little carried away with images and they end up taking large spaces in the column. A little shrinking of certain pictures should help us out. Also, some new headings that look better than before and just an all around cohesiveness between the guys and me. With my semester coming to a close and Mike being one step closer to that degree, there seems to be a bit more time to shell out for the column. All in all, I’m still very happy about having my own little niche in the Wrestling Section that isn’t a report.

We had a Pay Per View last weekend, and it turned some heads. John Cena made a little promo that really did nothing for the future of the WWE and Brock Smashed! Moreover, we’ve moved on to the next PPV in WWE land, Over the Limit, and the card is already halfway built. This week we talk a little bit about Extreme Rules, Over the Limit, and everything in between.

1.What did you enjoy most about the Extreme Rules PPV and what did you like the least?

Michael Uphoff: What I enjoyed most about the Extreme Rules PPV were the three main event matches that all delivered beyond my expectations. Punk/Jericho was just an insane heated brawl from start to finish. I liked the fact that both wrestlers actually came dressed for a street fight. While I thought Jericho might have had the match won after the Codebreaker with a chair, it was just insane nearfall one after the other. After slipping from the ropes once already, I’m glad Punk was able to deliver the Macho Man elbow through the announce table. That was SICK. Sheamus/Bryan finally got to have the match that they had been waiting to have for over a year. It was phenomenal wrestling between the two with psychology being present throughout the match. I especially liked the touch in the third fall when Sheamus would turn and take the kicks from dat boy D-Bry on his back instead of his injured arm. I was also happy that the match went 2-1, instead of Sheamus winning two falls to none. The only thing I have against this match is that the third and final fall seemed a little too abrupt and rushed to me. Considering the first fall probably went over fifteen minutes, I can see why.

Cena/Lesnar really delivered in terms of what I wanted to see. Lesnar looked like an absolute monster destroying Cena for twenty minutes until he got overconfident, clocked with a chain, and then AAed onto the steel steps for the pinfall. It may not have been the best choice, but as I said in Fact or Fiction this week, it helps both guys. Cena can say he rose above it all. Brock can say it was a fluke and that he beat Cena so badly that while Cena may have won the battle, Brock won the war. Beyond those matches, I also liked the Orton/Kane Falls Count Anywhere match, except when it made Ryder look like a punk. They actually had a botch near the end as Orton went for the RKO a little too early, but it wasn’t that noticeable and didn’t detract from the match.

I really didn’t care for Show/Rhodes as the match was just meh, but it got the title back on Cody which was important. What I really didn’t like about the PPV was WWE not using Kharma when they had the opportunity to pay off the feud between her and the Bella Twins. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for Layla, and she looks like she has improved in the ring, but I would rather have seen Kharma destroy both Bellas. I also did not like the squash matches. They had their place, and you can read why I say this on this week’s Fact or Fiction, but it just seemed like a waste of talent, especially on Ziggler’s part.

Tony Acero: Contrary to my little rant on The Greg DeMarco show, the pay per view was extremely enjoyable. Truly, it was a nice card that had a lot of action. The main event felt like a main event, and nonsensical promo aside, it was a great match. While I can question who went over, I felt I’d rather just go with it, as it wasn’t that big of a deal to me that Cena won. If I had to choose something that I greatly enjoyed, it would be the Sheamus and Bryan match. It was everything I wanted it to be and then some. Two out of three falls matches can really be something to behold – if done right. This one was done right. It was given ample time and they allowed both guys to run with that time. Bryan didn’t win, but I think I’m ok with that right now, as he can survive without the title and Sheamus may very well flounder if he isn’t holding the gold. In terms of what I liked the least, I’m going to have to go with the Big Show and Cody match. It wasn’t anything we haven’t seen before, and the ending was pretty stupid. It’s yet another “embarrassing moment” for Show, and will probably led to another match. Show has been somewhat reinvigorated this year, but I think it’s time to move on from the feud, as it has truly ran its course. Everything else on the Pay Per View was fun. Orton and Kane had a much better match this time around, Punk and Jericho did an amazing job with their street fight, Layla is…..*sigh.* The Main Event had a great story, and blood! If it wasn’t the Cody and Show match, then I’d definitely put all the unnecessary filler that doesn’t need to be on a damned PPV.

Joshua Stangle: My favorite part of the PPV hasn’t actually happened yet. It’s more of a bonus, with me punching Mike in the face for asking these questions despite knowing that I didn’t see the pay per view. You’re welcome, comments section.

I was pleased to hear that the three main matches delivered. This is one future dvd that I will purchase in the future just to see those matches.

I mostly agree with Mike that squash matches have no place on pay per views. They have a place in the Mike Tyson or Goldberg sense. If the wrestler is really over, and the crowd really enjoys watching them destroy, then the match has a place. Neither of those squashes on the PPV applies.

2. Does Daniel Bryan need to be booked strongly for his upcoming match with CM Punk?

Joshua Stangle: After having a great match with Sheamus at Extreme Rules, and defeating Jerry Lawler to become number one contender, Daniel Bryan will face CM Punk at Over the Limit. I really am anticipating this match. Hopefully Bryan looks as strong in defeat to Sheamus on Smackdown as he did at Extreme Rules. One problem is that Bryan’s nefarious side hasn’t really been illuminated since he lost the title at Wrestlemania. As malicious as his treatment of AJ has been, he hasn’t really done anything to show that he can win through any means necessary. Bryan’s win/loss record has also been pretty bad since Wrestlemania, not that it really matters. What does matter is momentum, and Bryan needs a considerable amount of it to be seen as a threat to Punk.

Punk has been booked really well, especially at pay per views. This is quite ironic now, since last year, his record at pay per views was awful. He has also held the title since November, which is really impressive considering to often rapid-fire nature of title changes in the WWE.

Over the Limit is only a second tier pay per view, at best. The chances of Bryan winning are rather minimal, but he should still be treated as a credible threat. I’m not saying that he should win every match until then, but a mixture of well-done promos and manipulative heel tactics will do a lot to give a reason for the casual fan to care.

Tony Acero: I was thrown aback when Daniel Bryan was announced as the winner of the Beat the Clock challenge, giving him the title shot. While Bryan has been on a roller coaster of wins and losses recently (and one hell of a loop in terms of an 18 second Wrestlemania loss), his character is still intact. I think the casual fan still buys into him, and us IWC peeps know that he’s badass in the ring. Does he NEED to be booked strongly? Eh, I don’t think so, considering he’s a heel and one that feeds off of getting away with shit. Stangle, you bring up a good point though, that he has yet to go full-blown baddie, and if that is the plan in the near future, I can’t wait. He shows glimpses of it, little smirks and gleaming eyes of hatred, but for the most part he’s gotten by with doing very little. That’s not a knock on him; if anything it’s a compliment to his ability to handle this heel turn that has gone so damned well for him. Back to the question: no, I don’t think he NEEDS to be booked strongly, but really, why wouldn’t they?

Michael Uphoff: Yes, Daniel Bryan should be booked strongly to be considered a threat to Punk. I agree with Josh. You don’t need to overbook him in the next few weeks, just have him win his matches and use a bit of heel trickery to get shots in on Punk. Throw in some promos and you’ll have a believable challenger for Punk. Bryan also has not been booked well since WrestleMania, the exact opposite of Punk. As long as WWE is smart, they should have no problem building Bryan as a threat to Punk.

3. Does the WWE knowingly limit the quality of their shows?

Joshua Stangle: After watching the January 30th edition of Monday Night RAW, I was surprised about how much I enjoyed it. Some weeks, I would watch RAW and become rather disenchanted with the WWE product. But after that show, I forgot about all of those weeks and remembered why I am a wrestling fan. The WWE clearly put a lot of effort into making that a great show. Then I wondered why don’t they have shows like that more often. Everybody in the WWE seemed to have considered that episode to be a success. Wrestlers lauded the quality of the show. I think it was obvious to most people watching that RAW was something special. So why does the WWE rarely produce such quality television like that?

Part of the answer is moderation. They have enough good shows to get people to keep watching. But if every show was good, then what would make them special? And why would people buy pay per view events? They show enough quality to draw viewers, with the promise of better stuff if those viewers pay money. I think another part is that the more casual audience has different expectations of quality, especially the younger crowd. Many people don’t want deep storytelling, and many don’t care that much about watching a classic match that doesn’t have an angle.

The remaining part is that they don’t actually limit their shows (that much), some of them are just bad. How many pre pay per view episodes of RAW have been bad recently? Far too many. There is zero reason to put such mediocre efforts on television as a means of trying to generate pay per view buys. As a fan, I really dislike that they (occasionally) do this. However, I understand why they would limit their shows.

Tony Acero: I had spoken about a variation of this question a few weeks ago, and on The Greg DeMarco show. I don’t assume that the WWE writing staff sits in a room and says, “Hey man, let’s make a crap show this week, it’ll probably make next week look better.” If anything, I think it’s a combination of overworking and not enough NO’s. Sure, I’ve never been in the writer’s circle of the WWE, so I have no right to speak on it, but there are times when I’m watching the show and the realization that this was someone’s idea…that this was agreed to be put on national television and thought of as either funny or worth money. When that realization hits me is when I get a bit perturbed. When I spoke to Greg, I said that as a writer of a television show, your job is to put on the best possible product every week. Not one week of the month, not two, but EVERY week. I don’t think that the guys realize what they’re putting on is bad, because that’s just nonsensical. I do think they get lazy, though. Whether they have too much on their plate or the stories overwhelm them, there’s a job to do and sometimes, you can tell that they didn’t put a full effort foreward. I don’t think this is them putting on a bad show, willingly and knowingly, though.

Michael Uphoff: I get where Josh is coming from, and I understand why the WWE would do something like this, but there is no reason why WWE should put on a crappy show for its fans. To knowingly do something like this is to blatantly rob the fans of their money just like the NWO used to do back in WCW. Not every show can look like a million bucks, but some shows don’t have to be the drizzling shits either.

4. Will Chris Jericho ever be WWE Champion or World Heavyweight Champion again?

Michael Uphoff: This is similar to one question on FOF, and therefore my response will be similar.

I don’t think Chris Jericho will hold the WWE Championship in 2012, or if he stays in WWE for longer than that, I don’t think he’ll hold either big belt again. He will be gone during the summer for his band Fozzy and their touring schedule, and I don’t think he will win the title anytime soon. If he was going to be WWE or World Champion anytime soon, he would have won at WrestleMania. If he won’t win the title, then what was the point of bringing him back? I get that people ask that question, and I find myself asking that question as well. However, did anyone ever think that maybe Chris Jericho wanted to come back to wrestling and just put over the current talent on the roster? Maybe he doesn’t need to be WWE Champion or World Heavyweight Champion. Sure, it’d be great to see Y2J as champion. Believe me, very few people can pull off being a heel champion as well as Jericho. It’s just that he really doesn’t need the title anymore. He’s a six-time World Champion, a nine-time Intercontinental Champion, and multi-time Tag Team Champion, European Champion, and Cruiserweight Champion.

What is there left for Jericho to do in the WWE? While a huge part of me would love to see Jericho as champion one more time, another part of me just thinks that Jericho came back to put over Punk and the current roster. If that’s true, then good for him. It kind of would make me sad to hear that, though. I think this is the time where WWE finally starts creating new stars and uses guys like Jericho to put them over. That would be great to see. However, I think Jericho deserves one more run with the title.

Tony Acero: Is it too early to say that Jericho is above the title? I recall Jericho talking about how every time he would return to the WWE, he wanted to reinvigorate his character and add another layer. I don’t know about anyone else, but I think his return this most recent time was horribly handled and could have been soooo much better. If there was a moment in time where he was going to win the belt again, it should have been then. It wasn’t, though, and he’s doing a good job as a challenger. I truly wouldn’t mind seeing him as a champion once again, but the time for him to leave is coming yet again and similar to Mike, I don’t think Jericho necessarily wants to be the champion again. Ok, let me rephrase that. I mean, really EVERYONE wants to be Champion, right? What I mean is that I think Jericho is smart and is a good storyteller. I think he came back because he wanted to wrestle CM Punk. I think if the title falls in his lap, he’d happily take it, but if it doesn’t then he is perfectly satiated with his current role.

Joshua Stangle: The WWE rarely ever had Jericho as champion though. His first championship run was rather bad. His second and third reigns were both short. And his final one ended in less than a month and a half, when he lost the title to Jack Swagger. Jericho has never really been given the ball, even as a champion. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he didn’t get another championship run. His legacy is already cemented. Ever since he came back, he has been given the star treatment and inserted into the main event scene. If I had to take a guess at why he came back, it would be because he felt inspired and had a idea to do something that had never been done before. Purely speculation, of course. Mike is right when he says that Jericho deserves one more run, but I think that it’s unlikely to happen.

5. John Cena’s Promo at the end of Extreme Rules was pointless and nonsensical.

Tony Acero: It’s almost obvious that I wrote this question to cater to my necessity to talk about this, isn’t it? Well nonetheless, that’s what you’re here for, so let’s get to it. For the past week or so, people have been rather upset about the end result of the match, with Cena winning. The general consensus was that if you spent so much money on Brock, then why have him lose. To be honest, I wasn’t too upset with that decision. Sure, I could harp on Cena winning after two moves, but they were pretty powerful and it all made sense in terms of Cena’s character and “never say die” attitude – even if I didn’t necessarily agree. After the win, however, we had Cena take a seat and cut a promo saying, “If I gotta take a vacation, so be it, and if I’m going away for a while, I just want to say thanks.” Of course, he said a bit more, but it put the world in a mild frenzy. I say mild, because some people simply didn’t care. The way the promo was made felt like two things, that Cena assumed he was taking some time off and wanted to legitimately thank the crowd. Here’s the issue with that, Cena just got his ass handed to him. I’m not saying he no sold the events that transpired beforehand, but he did undercut the effect. Add on to this that come Monday, Cena is there, all smiles, ready to move on to his next behemoth task of…Johnny Ace.

Here’s the thing, I’ve seen Cena do this before; the whole after match speech. It’s genuine and it’s kind, but there’s a time and a place. After a PPV “hoping this is airing” is NOT the time or the place. I won’t go so far as to say that Cena has some sort of vendetta against Brock and was trying to make him look bad, but that is kind of what he did. I’ve grown tired of Cena’s character and this did nothing but add on to the disdain for the unbeatable man. Yes, I’m aware Lord Tensai beat him. Yes, I’m aware The Rock beat him, but let me ask you this; where is the follow up to either of those losses? I can imagine that Tensai will have something to do with Over the Limit. I can even picture Ace claiming that he’s not going to wrestle, and Tensai will take his place (they’ve done this before, and with Ace no less). I’m just tired of it all, to be honest. The only saving grace of that pay per view will be Punk vs. Bryan, and it’s not because they’re Indy darlings, it’s because they’re on an even keel

Michael Uphoff: I absolutely FUCKING HATED Cena’s promo after his match with Lesnar. His match with Lesnar was a great one and one I’ll gladly watch again and again. I have tried to come up with a logical reason for such a promo, but there is none. Yay, John. You’re hurt. You don’t need to bury a guy WWE just signed and who you just beat in two moves after getting your ass kicked for twenty minutes. This was just awful for everyone involved.

Joshua Stangle: Like Tony, I don’t have a problem with Cena defeating Lesnar either. I would have preferred Lesnar winning, but Triple H summed it up best when he said that no one wrestler is above the WWE. Cena is the WWE‘s main turning point face, he needs some degree of invincibility and momentum for the fans to get excited. Lesnar just returned to the WWE after getting crushed in his previous two fights in the UFC. On the other hand, the NWO was built strong despite just coming over from the WWF, and that was vital to WCW’s future growth. The WWE also needs to build strong heels, as that’s one thing they really lack right now.

There was no point for Cena to give that promo at the pay per view. The announcers would have done a better job at raising questions about Cena’s immediate future. If the WWE (and wrestling, in general) is all about storytelling, then Cena failed in that regard. The booking can’t be blamed on Cena. He goes out there and does what they tell him to do. This, however, was entirely frivolous. There were many better ways to get the point that Cena might be really injured across, without undermining the physical toll of that match.

6. Why do you write this column?

Tony Acero: This is a bit different than the first five questions, but it stands to reason that it’s a question that we, as writers, need to continually ask ourselves. If we don’t, we end up with a stale product and an ego that’s far too large for anyone to stand reading. If we do not ask ourselves this, we turn into a punchline, a Wes Kirk. And so, when I look to my co-writers, I see the fandom radiate off of each of them. I see the yearning for a better product juxtaposed by the fact that we just enjoy this whole world known as wrestling. The same “struggle” is in me, to be honest, and so I ask myself this question frequently. Here’s the thing, in terms of ‘schedule,’ I have one that requires a large amount of time and dedication. On Monday, I do the RAW Report, on Wednesday I have the NXT Report, on Thursday, I have the NXT Rs and The Low End Theory in the Music section, on Friday I have the Rs for Smackdown, on Saturday I have the Triumvirate. This gives me roughly two days off of the week for 411wrestling.com work, and the rest is left for school and my actual work that I’m contracted to do (two books by the end of the year). I’m not gloating, I’m simply allowing you guys to understand why I feel answering this question is necessary.

Now then, let me answer the damned question. I cover RAW and NXT. I review Smackdown. I get to talk about the WWE every week, but rarely do I get the opportunity to ask and answer a question myself, to talk about what I want, and to basically have free reign over what I have to say. The product is something that, regardless of how much we criticize it, we are still fans of. I LOVE wrestling, and I LOVE the WWE. I’d argue that each one of us on this site love the damned thing, so much that we give our time – what little that we have – to the column, willingly. In closing, I write this column not just to practice the craft that is my career, but to talk about a product that I love and to get the opinions of fans all over the world, including my co-writers. So, readers, I ask you…why do you READ this column?

Michael Uphoff: Why do I do this column? That’s indeed a good question. I’ve been watching wrestling since late 1996. It’s been a passion of mine ever since, and I will never stop loving it. I watch WWE, and ROH and TNA when I can. I have probably over 150 wrestling DVD’s in my collection. I used to be the SmackDown recapper and absolutely loved doing it. I had to give that up due to me entering graduate school. I have participated in numerous IA’s for the WWE PPV’s and enjoyed every minute of it, even the comments that were negatively directed at me.

So why do I write this column? Because I love wrestling, plain and simple. We love the WWE. I want to share the passion and the knowledge for wrestling that I have to others. I love writing about wrestling and I love to see the opinions that people give me, either positive or negative. It’s what helps me get better at what I do.

Also, it is fascinating for me to try and analyze what will happen on PPV’s and the TV shows. I once accurately predicted 10 WWE PPV’s in a row, calling every result. That was a ton of work and a lot of fun. I also love the “mystique”, as Josh puts it. Ultimately, I like to be surprised in wrestling. I like the element of the unknown. I am a wrestling fan since 1996, and I will always be one. I love watching it, analyzing it, reading about it, writing about it, and I live wrestling. That is why I write this column. I hope everyone gets as much enjoyment out of it as I do. Keep the comments coming, people. Until then, peace.

Joshua Stangle: For me, I think it’s more than just my enjoyment of the product, but that I find the Wrestling industry as a whole to be fascinating. There are so many components to analyze, with each one playing such a vital role in the product that we watch. One could write an entire book on how psychology applies in Professional Wrestling. The very fact that we as fans have such a huge role on the shows is intriguing as well. What makes a good product? What makes a successful product? There is so much depth and complexity to it, that exploring both the normative and the positive aspects is really fun. Wrestling has a mystique, even with news sites and shoot interviews out there. Part of the fun of writing about it lies in that mystery. If we had all the answers, it wouldn’t really be as compelling. However, the bottom line is that I’m a wrestling fan. Even when the product doesn’t agree with my taste, I always try to watch. I enjoy watching it. I enjoy writing about it. I hope you enjoy reading this article.

Greg DeMarco: As a guy who writes multiple columns, I really need to address each individually.

The 4R’s of Impact Wrestling
When the Impact Wrestling R’s position came open, I volunteered along with one other person. That person doesn’t write here anymore. I did in fact present an argument for myself. I wanted to give TNA fair representation. Let’s be honest here—the product is wrongfully crapped on here at 411…all the time. The coverage can be laughable at times. Don’t get me wrong, there are times when TNA deserves to be crapped on. But there are times that it also deserves to be praised—heavily praised. The “IWC” is cynical by nature, but it’s worse when it comes to TNA. I refuse to do that. The fact that people accuse me of blatantly attempting to shill & promote TNA means that I’m doing something right.

The Triumvirate of Truth
This one is simple—to support my boy Tony Acero. That really is reason #1. Reason #2 is also related to my conversation above. When Tony needed someone to help cover TNA, he came to me. You see, others now see me as the guy I described above. It pains me when writers for a wrestling website say they can’t volunteer for a TNA project because they “stopped watching months ago.” When I was a kid, I’d watch any wrestling. Public access Indy full of crap? Sign me up! Now you have a company on national cable television with talents like AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Austin Aries, Samoa Joe, Magnus, Bobby Roode, Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Christopher Daniels, Kazarian, Bully Ray, Devon, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, James Storm and many more… And you can’t be bothered to watch? It’s that bad?

No.

The Wrestling 5&1
It depends on who you ask! If you ask the “powers that be” it’s because my column brings in the hits, and I like me some hits. If you ask my readers, it’s a self-serving exercise in bragging about my knowledge (or perceived knowledge), shilling my radio show and obsessing over some Indy wrestling girl because she was willing to come on my show. Now, that’s not all of my readers—just the squeaky ones. If you ask my wife, it’s because I don’t like having time to spend with my family!

Bu if you ask me (and you did), the answer is a combination of many factors. The “hits” is close—it’s the audience. Yeah, it’s a big audience. But it’s also an active audience. They post comments (good and bad), they send emails, they send Facebook messages, and they react to what I have to say. I even hear from people “in the business” on a weekly basis—and many praise my work. I do make a conscience effort to spread the word about Indy wrestling and lesser-known Indy chicks. I could easily do this without ever reaching out to them—but why do that? They’re getting valuable promotion—for free! And whatever they supply to me is purely for the column, so it benefits them in the end.

But those factors pale in comparison to the biggest. I write for me. I have 28 years of fan experience, meaning I have well over 20-years’ experience analyzing the product. My opinion is valued. My name (despite being a fake) means something. People care about what I have to say. That makes the 20-hours per week worth it!