411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Is Triple H Mania’s Most Unspectacular Main Event Performer?

Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Kevin Pantoja and Sean Garmer!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related content, as well as possible statements on quantum physics, homemade pharmaceuticals, the Turtle Total Trip Theorem, pizza and hydroponics.

1. Considering the number of high profile matches he’d had at the event over the years, Triple H is the most unspectacular WrestleMania main event performer of all time.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – I was very close to choosing fact here. I’m not a Triple H hate. In fact, I’ve seen a ton of great matches from the guy. However, he’s main evented seven WrestleManias and I’d say four of those matches have been very lackluster. At WrestleMania 2000, he retained in a match that wasn’t very good, went too long and focused too much on the McMahons. Two years later, he closed out X8 with Chris Jericho in a decent match that had no business following Hogan vs. Rock. At WrestleMania 21, he and Batista didn’t have a strong match but it was about as good as I expected from them. Now, before we get to the two worst, I’d like to remind everyone that he’s had good ones. In 2006, he and John Cena closed out WM22 with a really solid match and at WM20, he took part in the greatest Triple Threat match in WWE history. With that out of the way, we are reminded that WM25 and WM32 both ended with a massive whimper as he took on Randy Orton and Roman Reigns. It’s like, he tried to have an epic with Reigns and it just dragged on forever. Anyway, the reason I went with fiction was because he, unlike some other stars, has actually had good to great Mania main events. Consider Sid or Yokozuna, who have headlined multiple Manias without any good and I’d have to put them below HHH on the ladder of unspectacular Mania main eventers.

Sean Garmer: FICTION – I can’t call him the most unspectacular wrestler when he’s had good to great matches at WrestleMania that can be considered main events. For many years now, WrestleMania has had more than one main event level draw. HHH vs. Roman may have been bad, but the WM 30 match with Bryan wasn’t, In fact, you could argue it was the best match on that show. I enjoyed the match at WM 29 with Brock, WM 28 Hell in a Cell was great. The other two matches with Taker were also pretty good as well. When it comes to WrestleMania, I don’t see things as just “this one match that happens to be at the end” is the sole main event. His title matches may be disappointing or not have a lot of heat, but there are arguments to be made that at least WM 18 and WM 25 aren’t his fault at all as well.

2. Despite the reaction from the crowd, Roman Reigns winning the WWE Title at WrestleMania 32 was the right call.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – A lot of WrestleMania’s booking decisions left me bewildered. Putting the title on Roman Reigns wasn’t one of them. Even if you don’t believe Reigns should be the next golden boy, it was clearly time to shit or get off the pot with him. He was dangerously close to falling into Lex Luger territory or babyface flops so they had to finally do it. Roman chasing the belt got way old. Now he gets to hold it and I was worried about potential challengers. He’s already dispatched of Bray Wyatt, Big Show and several other top heels. Then on Raw, he came out and showed off the arrogance of being “the guy”. That could be fun. He might not go full heel, but cocky dick Reigns opens some doors. He looked more comfortable in that segment than he ever did in cheesy babyface ones. This title run could be fun.

Sean Garmer: FACT – WWE has put too much into Reigns not to pull the trigger and at least see what you have. The feud was built for Reigns to win, it made sense for Reigns to win, so he wins. What side of the heel/face line he’s on is not really important for this decision. Going forward it certainly is, but having HHH retain would make Reigns look bad and hurt him even more.

3. Despite Styles’ win on Raw. Chris Jericho defeating AJ Styles at WrestleMania was a horrible booking decision.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – Zack Ryder winning the Intercontinental Title confused me but I figured they just wanted to have a feel good moment open WrestleMania. It was Chris Jericho beating AJ Styles that really just confused me. Look, I get that AJ Styles being the number one contender for the WWE World Heavyweight Title makes you kind of forget about the loss to Jericho but it doesn’t make up for it. WWE fans see far too much 50/50 booking. The only guys that gain a ton of traction are the ones that get booked like stars (Cena, Orton, Reigns, Brock, etc.). Having Styles lose to Jericho reeked of either 50/50 booking or “this guy made himself a star outside of the WWE so he has to lose on our big stage.” I could have understood if Jericho was moving up to a title shot with Reigns but he didn’t (at least for now). Jericho gained nothing with that win. We all would have looked at him the same with or without that win. The dude lost to freaking Fandango at Mania but not AJ Styles. AJ needed a big win in his first Mania and there was no reason not to give it to him.

Sean Garmer: FACT – The loss certainly came off very weird and you could argue that it was made to mean nothing the next night on RAW, but it was still damaging. It is another 50/50 wonder and another decision that stifles the star making process because of the inconsistency. So, Jericho kicks out of the Styles Clash and beats Styles at WrestleMania, the biggest night in WWE’S calendar. This makes AJ look like another guy. AJ could have gotten a big win against Jericho and it leads to him rightfully staking a claim against Reigns the next night. The next night, it’s like WWE saw their error and course corrected. Sure, he’s the #1 Contender now, but I think the match at WrestleMania puts a doubt in people’s heads. If he couldn’t beat Jericho, why should I think he can beat Reigns. That’s not what you want for a world title challenger.

SWITCH!

4. You have no problem with Rock, Austin, HBK and Foley dropping in to make 365 day employees look weak and ridiculous.

Sean Garmer: FICTION – This is a major problem WWE has, which seems so silly to me. Why take one step forward with a guy like Bray Wyatt and then kill him in the same segment? Bray obviously has been booked weirdly by WWE, but it’s again the inconsistency here. Bray cuts a great promo, Rock praises him, and then breaks a record on Rowan and Cena comes out to clear them out, while Rock does his greatest hits and it hurts Wyatt. The League of Nations thing was clearly to pop the crowd. The LON win and instead of letting them look strong, some old guys come out to kill them. The stuff with New Day was hilarious, but it just made LON look like jokes. So, after watching that, how could you think the LON stood any chance on RAW? Yeah…none. WWE was smart and able to turn into the removal of Barrett, but at what cost? Are people really taking the other three seriously? No. The legends are a draw no doubt, but they can put over guys and not take them down several pegs instead.

Kevin Pantoja: FICTION – Trust me, I get the appeal of this at times. People love nostalgia. The WWE has been relying on nostalgia to get them through the past few years. Seeing HBK, Foley and Austin was cool. Hell, I loved the running gag in 2012 of legends beating up Heath Slater on a weekly basis. If you’re a comedy act that gets made to look ridiculous (Santino getting a beer bath from Austin comes to mind), it’s a blast. My issue is when they do this to acts that are supposed to be taken seriously. The Rock is the king of this. Look at Mania. Beating Erick Rowan in six seconds and calling Bray Wyatt fat was lame. It’s his thing, I know, but can’t he act like someone for once is legit? Rock returning to Raw a while back and basically saying he slept with Lana right in front of Rusev sucked. What happened to the Rusev that would have beat his ass for that? One of the major problems with the WWE is their insistence on constantly reminding the audience that the stars of the past are superior to the current crop.

5. NXT Takeover: Dallas was superior to WrestleMania in every way.

Sean Garmer: FICTION – Mainly because nothing will ever outdo WM when it comes to the spectacle, which this Mania relied heavily on this year. From every other standpoint, the crowd, the wrestling, and the stories told, hell yes it did. Nakamura vs. Zayn was the match of the weekend for both shows. Then you had the absolutely terrific NXT title match that rivaled the Ladder match from Mania. You could argue the WM Women’s match may be better, but the last match on Takeover was certainly hotter and more well received than Roman vs. HHH. I was at both shows and Takeover felt big, Nakamura looked like a total star, but WrestleMania still had the moments and grandeur that is unequaled.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – It wasn’t even close and I say this as someone that didn’t find TakeOver: Dallas to be a 10/10 perfect show. Nakamura/Zayn was incredible and the Tag Team Title match at TakeOver was fantastic. The rest of the show was pretty damn good. Then you get to WrestleMania. Including the kickoff show, the show last nearly seven hours and felt like it went about 17 hours. The actual matches were mostly good and, if you cut out the battle royal, Hell in a Cell and WWE Title matches, you would have had nothing but good, solid matches. What killed WrestleMania was the booking. Almost none of the finishes made any sense and I covered it in my “A Hollow WrestleMania” piece. TakeOver felt like it was a big deal and settled some things (outside of Joe/Balor really), while Mania felt big only because of the stadium, nostalgia acts and Shane’s spot. Everything else felt lackluster and not like a WrestleMania. I wanted to really enjoy Mania but creative prevented that from happening.

6. While WWE shifting to a women’s division and title at WrestleMania was the right call, Charlotte winning the triple threat to be the first to hold the new title wasn’t.

Sean Garmer: FICTION – This came off weird, but I had no problem with this because Charlotte is starting to really harness that heel character and become her own person as champion. Having Sasha and others chase her is much better than just having one of the other two win. I’d say Sasha still has growing to do on the main roster and it would be better to give her that big first win, once this new Women’s division is firmly established. Charlotte can help bring that along, especially with Ric beside her doing the WWE typical heel shenanigans, which would put them on equal footing with the men in WWE land. This is more about that, then really being the culture change that is the NXT Womens division. This is all about being equal to the men and Charlotte personifies that.

Kevin Pantoja: FACT – I don’t think I’ve ever said fact with more confidence. Usually, wrestling works in a simple, tried and true formula when a heel is champion. They cheat and find ways to win by any means necessary for a while. The babyface comes up short until finally, one day, they dethrone them. WrestleMania is the best place for that to happen. Remember when HHH retained the WWE Title at WrestleMania 2000? That was stupid. The WWE was introducing a new Women’s Title and should have ushered in a new era by giving it to someone new. Becky Lynch finally getting the monkey off of her back and winning the belt would have been a better feel good moment than Ryder’s IC Title win. Sasha Banks has been protected to the point of not taking a pinfall or submission loss since coming to the main roster and is insanely over. The girl got a Snoop Dogg led entrance and paid tribute to Eddie Guerrero. After a great match, nothing changed except for the look of the belt. Charlotte still retained and did so because of Ric. The women’s division is centered around Ric Flair. Let that sink in. Then on Raw, it seems like Natalya is the new top challenger (because we haven’t seen that before) and Sasha Banks is still not getting a one on one shot. The WWE is missing out on striking while the iron is hot with Sasha and it could blow up in their faces.