wrestling / Columns
411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling: Will Lesnar Stay With WWE?
Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week: First up is Ryan Byers! He battles Nick Marsico!
1. Even with all of the recent drama, you expect Brock Lesnar to re-sign with the WWE.
Ryan Byers: FICTION – It feels so odd to be writing about professional wrestling on this site and not shitty reality television. Anyway, the fork in the road for Lesnar’s career right now is a choice between professional wrestling and mixed marital arts. At age 37, if he wants to participate in MMA again, particularly at a high level, the window in which he is physically capable of doing so is rapidly closing, no matter how big of a genetic freak he may be. In terms of specifics, I know very little about the dollar figures that are on the table, but it seems to me that a UFC or a Bellator would have more of an incentive to offer a high dollar deal than WWE, because the MMA companies both have business that is fairly strong right now and have a need for fresh heavyweight main eventers, whereas WWE is still hemorrhaging money due to Network startup costs and unexpected shortfalls in Network revenue, to say nothing of the fact that the return on their investment with Brock is greatly diminished if he’s not going to be wrestling on pay per view. In other words, the bigger money right now is probably in MMA, and it’s probably the last opportunity the Beast has in his life as a professional athlete to get that bigger money contract. Plus, having another run in MMA will almost certainly not prevent Lesnar from coming back to WWE when said mixed marital arts run is completed . . . in other words, he can always come home again, no matter how far he strays. I think that the bigger question is not whether Brock will re-sign with WWE but rather whether he will land in UFC or Bellator. (My money is on UFC, followed by Bellator, followed by a WWE comeback.)
Nick Marsico: FICTION – The time has come. We all know that Vince McMahon is out of his mind and doesn’t seem to realize that wasting money on guys like Brock hurts his bottom line moreso than what he was paying the guys who were running the monthly WWE Magazine. Triple H is apparently ready to let Brock go, and if Lesnar is smart about it, he should walk too. I don’t know what Dana White would be paying him, but he’ll get plenty. Brock doesn’t want to have a lengthy no compete clause in the contract, which is said to be his sticking point. If he can get rid of that clause he might re-sign, but even then I don’t think it’s worth it for him or WWE to keep their current relationship going. Brock isn’t going to do something stupid like no-show WrestleMania, but I fully expect for that to be the last time we see him if March 29th is the final date that must be fulfilled on his current contract. I like Brock and the non-Triple H matches have been very good, but he won’t be missed.
2. While the booking of the IC Title and Champion Wade Barrett has been poor, you are excited for the ladder match at WrestleMania.
Ryan Byers: FICTION – Maybe this is a generational thing, but I get far less excited about multi-man ladder matches than a lot of fans who I see commenting about them online. Some people absolutely love Money in the Bank and its ilk, but, to me, all of these matches blur together and I forget about them about thirty seconds after they’re over. Plus, so many of them have happened over the years now that I feel like we’ve seen almost everything we can in terms of spots, particularly in an era where WWE has consciously toned down the risk factor associated with its in-ring style. So, I’m not particularly thrilled about the action that the match will be bringing to the card. I’m also not particularly invested in the outcome, because, as even our question notes, the Intercontinental Title and its holder have been booked like absolute jokes over the last several months, with Barrett having a winning percentage that has to be less than .500 and the belt being gunned for most heavily by R-Truth of all people. There is literally not one winner of the match that I would be excited about, either. If either Dean Ambrose or Daniel Bryan won, I would be disappointed because winning the IC strap would feel like a huge demotion for either one of them, and I can’t get behind the other men who are in the match because they’re directionless midcarders who have been in the same position on the card for literally years. So, yeah, to me this essentially feels like putting a second Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royale in the show.
Nick Marsico: FICTION – No. Absolutely not. It’s just a new, far less exciting version of Money in the Bank. They are already doing a battle royal to get a bunch of guys on the card who otherwise wouldn’t make it, so why throw together another meaningless multi-man ladder match? They have been somewhat clever (ish) by having R-Truth come out of the woodwork and stake his rightful claim to a title match, but the other guys set to be in the match are just beating Barrett, which, as always, is the staple of being the IC Champ. Lose every match except for title matches. Nobody cares about those title matches, lose the belt, rinse and repeat. Even worse, they announced that it would be a Ladder Match before beginning the build, so the booking for the match loses a lot of its impact. The idea that everybody keeps stealing the IC Title belt is kinda funny and if they announced that due to the title being hot potatoed around, the most logical step would be to literally put it up for grabs in a Ladder Match. Of course it’s just typical backwards booking, where they are booking to the stipulation that’s already there instead of booking toward the announcement of the stipulation once it organically begins to make sense. It has soured me on the whole idea of the match. It will still be a good match, for sure, but the IC Title isn’t worth the potential injuries and guaranteed once WrestleMania is over the belt will go right back to being fairly meaningless.
3. CHIKARA announcing Bullet Club (AJ Styles and The Young Bucks) for this year’s King of Trios tournament has captured your interest.
Ryan Byers: FACT – I’m not that interested in the event itself or in CHIKARA. I was a big fan of the promotion a couple of years ago, but, when they ran their angle in which the entire promotion shut down for a year, I got out of the habit of paying attention to it and they haven’t done anything significant enough to recapture me to the point that I’m as fully invested in the company as I once was. Bringing in the Bullet Club probably isn’t going to get me to watch King of Trios or any other CHIKARA show. However, the question was not whether I would be watching the show but rather whether, more generally, the move has “captured my interest.” In that more general sense, I am interested, because I want to see what implications, if any, this will have for the greater professional wrestling landscape. It’s been a while since we’ve had a stable of professional wrestlers that traveled from promotion to promotion doing the same act in each group, and this means we would have Bullet Club involvement simultaneously in New Japan, Ring of Honor, and CHIKARA and possibly more if NJPW will continue to allow additional licensing of the name. That could make for some fun times on the greater US indy scene in 2015. I’m also interested to see whether this will result in some talent scouts from New Japan setting their eyes on members of the CHIKARA roster that they might not otherwise see. Though, last I checked, CHIKARA included several guys who, though fun in their context, aren’t exactly ready for prime time, there are a couple of other folks like Fire Ant or Jigsaw who might be able to bring something different to the New Japan junior heavyweight division. So, yes, there are some interesting implications for this one but it’s not a choice that’s going to get me to buy the show unless there are some surprisingly good potential opponents for Styles and the Bucks.
Nick Marsico: FACT – To be fair, the idea of tournaments in general capture my interest, and the King of Trios tournament specifically has captured my interest ever since it was originally a standard two-on-two tag tournament dubbed the Tag World Grand Prix. I attended an entire King of Trios weekend 7 or 8 years ago and it was spectacular. I love six-man tag matches, and added great talent like AJ Styles is, for lack of a better word, absolutely phenomenal (pun intended and I don’t care who thinks it’s not clever!). The teaming with the Young Bucks makes perfect sense, of course, with them all being members of New Japan’s Bullet Club. Getting the three of them in the tournament makes for a definite marquee team guaranteed to have some really enjoyable matches. Color me excited. Extra points if AJ dresses like the Young Bucks the same way Kevin Steen did in PWG.
SWITCH!
4. Jon Stewart’s segment on Raw was one of the better celebrity segments in a long time.
Nick Marsico: FACT – I knew it was going to be entertaining and I was expecting Stewart to be coherent as it pertains to the wrestling vernacular since he actually is a fan, but this far exceeded my expectations. Rollins was fantastic during his hosting segment; it is truly great to see how far he has come in that respect since his days in Ring of Honor. When Stewart made his appearance he ended up cutting a promo similar to the one that Mick Foley did with Rollins and Ambrose before last year’s Hell in a Cell pay-per-view. It was passionate, it was well worded and well spoken and it furthered WWE’s agenda leading toward WrestleMania. Extra points for the nut shot and Stewart sprinting up the ramp while swinging his jacket over his head. Absolutely great segment, possibly the best long-form celebrity cameo appearance they’ve ever done.
Ryan Byers: FACT – I was not optimistic headed into the Jon Stewart segment. It’s not that I doubted Stewart’s ability as a performer. In fact, I’ve seen pretty much every episode of the Daily Show that has aired over the course of the past ten years, and I’m a guy who, outside of wrestling, watches virtually no television. My problem with the Jon Stewart segment going into it was that I had watched Seth Rollins’ appearance on the Daily Show and I had watched the YouTube promos that the two men had cut on each other, and I was not thrilled with how Stewart was interacting with Rollins. He was clearly treating the entire situation as a joke, doing everything with a wink and a nod to the camera to let his audience know that he knew this was over the top and fake. Meanwhile, WWE kept playing it up like a legitimate rivalry. Those two things combined to make WWE look quite bad and desperate for mainstream attention. However, I was pleasantly surprised by how things turned out when Stewart was live on Monday Night Raw. Though he still incorporated some humor – which he absolutely should, because he’s a professional comedian – he played the segment like it was a serious pro wrestling angle and not as though it was a skit to entertain his own studio audience. And, when Stewart played it straight, he cut a hell of a promo. Again, this talent should not come as a surprise, but the content of what he delivered was remarkably good. Whether Stewart scripted his own promo or not, I don’t know, but he came off as a guy who had an understanding of the history of professional wrestling, and that automatically puts him leaps and bounds above a lot of other celebrities who have been on the show in recent memory. (People are still giving Ellen’s cousin Jeremy Piven crap about “Summferfest,” for example.) On top of that, Stewart as a WWE character actually made one of the most cogent points about a storyline that has been made on Raw in years, pointing out to Rollins that, if the Authority really cared about him, he would be challenging for the WWE Championship in the WrestleMania main event. Not only does that comment make sense, but it also is the sort of thread that could be picked up on for purposes of long-term storytelling should WWE creative be so inclined. I do not know whether Stewart’s appearance was a one-off or whether this will be a story that continues through WrestleMania, but, if it’s the latter, I will certainly welcome it.
5. Talents like Alberto El Patron, Rey Mysterio and Samoa Joe opting not to re-sign (or leave their promotions for other reasons) is positive thing for the wrestling business as a whole.
Nick Marsico: FACT – Granted Alberto was let go and Mysterio was essentially only being held onto out of spite and wanted to leave because he was being jerked around, the answer is still that this is a good thing for the biz. Samoa Joe finally breaking the chains from TNA was something that should have happened a long, long time ago. He was horrifyingly misused and TNA turned him from one of the best wrestlers in the world and a super cool character into just another unmotivated fat guy. Hopefully the return to Ring of Honor and appearances in NJPW will begin helping him reestablish the mystique he once possessed. With the rumors now being that Joe is set to sign with WWE sooner rather than later, he will likely drop some weight (like Steen/Owens did) and get the shot that he should have had 10 years ago when he had Mick Foley advocating for him to Vince McMahon. Alberto El Patron’s success thus far outside of WWE is definitely proof that a talented star can make the right kind of impact in smaller promotions and have a positive effect. Mysterio’s case is pretty much moot because he hasn’t appeared in almost a full year and he hasn’t actually been Rey Mysterio in a long time. He is in the twilight of his career and he is just going to be wrestling out what remains of his days somewhere he wants to be. Other names that can be added to this list are Ethan Carter III, who was wasted by WWE and has shown himself to be a very worthwhile member of TNA’s roster, Trent Barretta, who has done very well for himself in the WWN Live family of promotions and now Drew Galloway, who has been great in EVOLVE and is now beginning to rise to his full potential there and in TNA.
Ryan Byers: FACT – Well, I wouldn’t say that Alberto leaving WWE because a co-worker made a racist comment that he was deservedly slapped over is a positive thing, but that’s not the point of the question. In my opinion, the more talent you have spread out through a variety of wrestling promotions, the better things are for the industry as a whole. Granted, in terms of pure business metrics, WWE is so far ahead of the pack that you will probably never see somebody legitimately challenging them anywhere in the next twenty years, but, if you’re going to have a wrestling landscape that is dominated by one product, you have to at least hope that all of the promotions vying for number two are strong and highly entertaining. What I’ve learned over the years is that people who are hardcore fans of a particular genre of entertainment need alternatives in that genre, otherwise they get burnt out and run the risk of leaving it. From my personal history as a wrestling fan, I originally got brought into the game by the WWF but really feel that, if I didn’t have other companies like WCW and New Japan there to give me something to watch more when I got tired of the Fed’s formulae, I probably would have stopped watching professional wrestling over a decade ago. What strengthening the second tier promotions with top level talent does is provides those same alternatives for a new generation of fans, and hopefully it will keep them in the game just like I was kept in the game.
6. What is your current excitement level for WrestleMania 31?
Nick Marsico: 6 out of 10 – Paul Heyman is making very long strides toward helping me become interested in the Lesnar/Reigns main event. Roman’s promo from RAW the night after Fastlane was also really good, and it’s the kind of simple promo he should have been cutting all along. I’m cold on the IC Title match and I don’t know why they decided to put Bryan and Ziggler in it. Both men are above that belt. I really think they should have just run with a Barrett/Ambrose ladder match if they had to go with that stipulation. Wyatt vs. Undertaker has had a fine build, and I like that it’s going to be all Bray with no Undertaker appearances until March 29th. I really hope they don’t do something stupid and have Undertaker beat him, though. That would actually be more counterintuitive and numbskulled than having him lose to John Cena last year. Speaking of Cena, the whole “maybe John needs to sit out this year” bullcrap is ridiculous. What’s the point? There’s a completely legitimate reason to move toward a rematch and yet they are going about it in the most convoluted way possible. Sting vs. Triple H will be fine, but I’m so completely not into the build. I’ll be watching the show; it will certainly have some good matches and there will be a number of outcomes that aren’t guaranteed. Plus, Reigns vs. Lesnar has potential to either be surprisingly good or a fun social experiment like the Lesnar/Goldberg match was 11 years ago. Maybe not quite to that level, but I am interested in seeing how they book the match itself. It just doesn’t feel at all like WrestleMania season and that is incredibly disappointing.
Ryan Byers: Fiction . . . ummm . . . . sorry, force of habit. Let’s say 6 out of 10 – These days, even when WrestleMania is a bad show per the standards of a WrestleMania, the overall spectacle of the event and the extra effort the performers put in make it worth watching on some level. That’s why I couldn’t in good conscience rate my excitement level for WM at anything less than a five. It’s still THE show in professional wrestling, even when it has an off year. However, this particular year, I couldn’t go much higher than that baseline “five” rating. There are two reasons for that. The first is that this year WrestleMania on paper seems to be missing that one great blow away match that has defined other recent incarnations of the show. Sting vs. HHH will likely be good, but it’s still going to be HHH trying his damndest to carry a 55-year-old man who was never any great shakes in the ring to begin with. Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar, even if it overachieves athletically, is likely to be hampered by the audience’s sheer apathy towards Reigns. Bray Wyatt vs. The Undertaker, in my opinion, will be a train wreck, as Taker hasn’t looked that great for a couple of years and Wyatt, though he has a cool persona, almost always falls flat in big singles matches. Aside from that, you’ve got a battle royale, a ladder match that is basically the modern equivalent of a battle royale, and a women’s match. There’s just not much of substance for the “workrate” set to latch on to. The second reason that I’m not feeling WrestleMania as strongly as I have in the past is that there have been quite a few creative misfires in WWE as of late. Over the last ten years, the company has been accused of being cyclical in that its quality peaks between the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania, dips afterwards, picks back up again briefly for the build to Summerslam, and then drops off through the end of the year. In 2014, however, the quality of the promotion nose-dived after Extreme Rules, and it seemingly got worse and worse through the end of December. The quality of the booking did not see a sharp uptick headed into the Royal Rumble as is traditional, and in fact it continued to flounder for a little while, just now starting to show some signs of life three weeks out from the big show. (Not to be confused with the Big Show.) This puts a damper on my WrestleMania excitement. In other words, the creative of the promotion has been so bad for so long that it’s tough to get excited about ANYTHING they’re doing, even when that “anything” is the single biggest professional wrestling show on the face of the planet for the year.
