411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction: Is NXT’s Iron Survivor Match Better Than WarGames?

Welcome back to the 411mania Wrestling Fact or Fiction. I’m your host Jake Chambers.

Back this week to talk one of my favorite subjects – NXT – with one of my favorite people – coming to you straight out of the comments section, it’s the one and only Blake Jarvis! We’ve gone back and forth over the years, but this week we’re bringing it to the main stage!

So let’s get right to it, and whoop that FoF statement!

Statement #1: For the past 3 years, the NXT Dead1ine Iron Survivor Challenge matches have been better than the WWE Survivor Series War Games matches.

Blake Jarvis: FICTION – From a bell to bell action standpoint, it is clearly better. From a storytelling perspective the War Games are superior. And I have enjoyed them more for the most part. I don’t believe you always have to have a men’s and women’s War Games match and some of the weapons and stare down moments have become repetitive. From an event calendar perspective it also helps finish some rivalry’s just in time to start new ones for the road to WrestleMania. The Iron Survivor is definitely exciting but lacks the storytelling impact.

Jake Chambers: FACT – I think Blake makes a good point about the storytelling potential of the Wargames match, but I don’t think it’s been highly effective as one so far. Other than the first edition, which culminated in that great Sami / Bloodline moment, the rest have shoehorned stories into the calendar to meet the Survivor Series date rather than being organic storytelling devices for real feuds. Even this year, they rushed the rival Bloodlines feud so badly to climax at that event that they were never able to establish Solo’s crew as a realistic threat and had to shove nonsequitor CM Punk into the match like a week before to create something even remotely compelling. I’ll take the in-ring story of an Iron Survivor Challenge anytime over that phoney main roster storytelling. Pro-wrestling for me is not about the “soap opera” but about seeing a variety of things play out through the wrestling action in the ring. Having well-defined characters like they do in NXT, along with clear distinct wrestling styles, all meshed in with a structured constraint, and you have all kinds of creative challenges in one match for these wrestlers to overcome. That’s real storytelling in the pro-wrestling way, and that’s what I prefer.

Statement #2:  Even in the “Paul Levesque Era”, we still won’t get a one-night King of the Ring tournament on a PLE or a Survivor Series filled with traditional tag team elimination matches.

Blake Jarvis: FICTION – I do believe in the chance of a one night King of the Ring. Triple H understands the importance of the tournament for a performer and it’s ability to help propel a wrestler to the next level. A one night Survivor Series traditional tag team elimination only night will never happen. I don’t believe there is an appetite for a whole night of them. There should be one in every Survivor Series PLE, like this year instead of a women’s War Games match, it should have been a traditional tag match.

Jake Chambers: FACT – I agree with Blake that they’re not bringing back the elimination tag match format to Survivor Series, but I do think there’s an appetite for it – those matches rule, those cards full of them ruled, and I think people do very much want to see more wrestlers on PLEs and in unique matches. I think the WWE bookers, including HHH, are stuck in the Vince business and creative mindset despite what a lot of fans want to think. WWE continues to book in a very conservative way and don’t like chaos or weirdness, which is what the old Survivor Series was: a chance for midcard wrestlers to outshine the top tier pushed stars. That’s what we actually want to see, but THEY don’t like that, and it’s the same reason we’ll never see another 7-match, one-night PLE tournament.

Statement #3: Guilia should beat Roxanne Perez for the NXT Women’s Title.

Blake Jarvis: FACT – The easiest of the questions asked, Guilia should absolutely beat Roxanne Perez for the NXT Women’s Title. Roxanne Perez has had a great heel run as champion, but it’s time shuffle the deck. Guilia has rightfully been pushed as a major star and performed to that level. Having her lose once again to Perez would be a really confusing decision. Outside of Stephanie Vaquer, Roxanne Perez has worked with all of them. Having Guilia as the champion opens up a cavalcade of new and exciting matches.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – To me, Roxanne is my favorite and I don’t want to see her lose. And I don’t necessarily agree with Blake, I think Roxanne still actually has a lot of challengers who I’d like to see her face one-on-one as champion in this stacked division: Vaquer, Zaria, Kelani, Rucca, Lyons, Sinclair, and it seems like someone new steps up every week. Is Roxanne ready for the main roster? Probably not, and also, I prefer to have her on NXT anyways. Besides, Guilia – this heralded, can’t-miss signing – not being able to beat Roxanne on multiple occasions can be an interesting story. And I think Guilia NEEDS a story, since they dress her like every other female Japanese wrestler, her personality is not all that defined, and her matches so far have been good but not great.

¡SWITCH!

Statement #4: Keeping Eddy Thorpe in the Men’s Iron Survivor match at NXT Dead1ine would have been better than switching to Oba Femi.

Jake Chambers: FACT – I think it was somewhat predictable that it was going to be Oba Femi once they announced a mystery entrant was taking Thorpe’s place, and completely obvious that he was going to win when he came out in the final spot. That pretty much ruined the match for me as I didn’t think the first 15 minutes had much heat since we were all just waiting to see who the surprise winner was going to be. This new match creation has been characterized by unpredictability from the start, and this was, in my opinion, easily the least interesting in the series so far. And Eddy Thorpe is kind of awesome, his recent storyline at least would have made him a threat to win if he’d been in there with those other guy while also giving them all more of a chance of winning as well. Very disappointing booking from an NXT that is generally fun and on point for me.  

Blake Jarvis: FICTION – First, let me say, I really enjoy Eddy Thorpe and happy he is getting more screen and character time, but Oba is always the best option for anything. I was surprised at the start that Oba wasn’t a part of the qualifying. The field just wasn’t captivating enough with the original group. Nobody felt like a real challenger for Trick Williams. The field was kinda one note having a monster really boosted the quality, and the surprise was a great start to a really good PLE. 

Statement #5: A lack of midcard titles was not the problem with the WWE’s main roster women’s division.

Jake Chambers: FACT – Certainly we saw when they added the unnecessary Women’s Tag Team titles that this has never been the problem. The issue has been, and will continue to be, time. As long as it’s vague just how much of a split there is supposed to be between these “divisions” it’ll always just be arbitrary when and how the women get their time on the show, and will clearly be the default for the long commercial break matches, short matches, and cool downs. With the introduction of these new titles, I don’t know when we’ll ever see another women’s match on TV that isn’t for a title or a #1 contendership. There’s just not going to be enough time for anything else. And that will just be a constant crutch for creative to make easy, heat-less matches, and discard contenders for months after they lose. WWE need a separate show for the women that can give them time to actually have good matches and develop interesting storylines and characters, and until that happens the women’s division will always be secondary to the men on the mixed TV shows.

Blake Jarvis: FACT – This is a tough one, but the real problem is TV time. I do think the titles can help and allows you to get the division more opportunities to create stars. The tag titles have been a disaster with injuries and inconsistent teams. The singles belts will be easier to book stronger programs. The roster is probably very happy as well. With probably feeling more equal to there male counterparts.They do need to allocate more time to the women’s division. I agree with Jake a women’s show is a good idea. Turning Main Event into a women’s show would do a lot to help and acknowledge on Raw or Smackdown the winners of the brands specific matches.

Statement #6: Trick Williams’s 2024 run was underwhelming.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – However, I don’t want to say it’s lived up to my expectations either. After his run with Ilja Dragonuv and Carmelo Hayes, Trick’s power seemed off the charts, I had him pegged as a future Wrestlemania main event-er. I’ve kind of dialed back my internal hyperbole on that following the underwhelming Stand and Deliver main event with Hayes on Wrestlemania weekend. But, I’ve still loved the year he’s had, good matches and an overflow of charisma who forces you to root for him to win. And there’s not a lot of babyfaces out there like that, maybe only Bryan Danielson in America, and I’m not sure he’s even got that aura anymore. So I think I’m only saying it was underwhelming because I was expecting an off-the-charts type year for him and they either pulled back or he wasn’t ready. 

Blake Jarvis: FACT –  Let start by saying I’m not the biggest Trick Williams fan, but I do understand why he is the champion. I believe the main problem for his 2024 run has been his opponents and his in ring work. When he has been champion, his feuds and contenders have been lacking except Ethan Page. Even the Page rivalry felt rushed and sporadic. His rivals without the belts have been even less interesting and everyone knew that Pete Dunne was there to give Trick a victory over a main roster superstar. I believe NXT was more exciting with Page as champion. At News Year’s Evil, Oba Femi is clearly the right choice to dethrone Trick Williams. As far as ring work goes he’s still a little clunky in my opinion, and I’m not a fan of his move set, especially his finish. He is going to be a big star but his 2023 was definitely more interesting.

Thanks so much to Blake Jarvis for joining me this week! Another great contribution from the comments section, and I’m building up a nice roster of guests for the future! Let Blake know how he did below, and hit me up if you’re looking to get into the FoF fray!

Speaking of battles, next up will be our 3-way finals in the 3rd edition of our semi-annual Larry Csonka Memorial Wrestling Fact or Fiction Tournament, and joining former champion Steve Cook this time will be Ryan Ciocco and Theo Sambus!

See you then!