411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction: Should Wrestlemania be Two Nights Long?

Welcome back to the 411 Fact or Fiction – Wrestling Edition, I’m your host, Jake Chambers. Every week, Fact or Fiction poses statements on pro-wrestling history, culture and current events and then challenges writers to explain why they believe each statement is totally factual or completely fiction. No middle ground will be tolerated!

This week’s guests are: Ryan & D2Kvirus.

You know them and love them from the comments section of various 411mania articles, but I have especially appreciated how both take the time almost every week to write their own responses to the FoF statements that I craft. Sometimes the stuff they write is as good as any regular columnist (especially me), so I decided to invite them to join me this week up here in the actual article.

If you’re active in the Disqus comments section then I’m sure you’ve gotten into some kind of argument with D2Kvirus… and lost! You’d recognize him by the affectionate “I paid to see the Vanilla Midgets” logo as his Disqus profile pic, with the header: “Confidently stating your personal opinion ≠ facts, knowledge or expertise”. Brash and bold, expect the unexpected from his comments.

On the other hand, Ryan isn’t one to back down from barb battle either, and he can drop the knowledge of a long-memoried fan on you like an RKO. He is currently sporting the AEW logo as his Disqus profile pic, along with the header: “Like soda (and not pop), it’s pro wrestling, NOT sports entertainment!”. Conversational and authoritative, Ryan can school you into talkback silence with one of his biting comments.

Both guys are passionate, opinionated, and ready to throw down. So let’s see what they’ve got!

Statement #1: Following in the footsteps of New Japan’s successful back-to-back WrestleKingdom shows at the Tokyo Dome last weekend, the WWE should start doing two nights of Wrestlemania.

D2Kvirus: FICTION – Putting aside how the last few WMs feel like they last an entire weekend already, there’s a simple reason why a WM should not be split over two nights: last year TakeOver was on the Friday, the HoF on the Saturday and WM on the Sunday – which means that, if they were to split WM over two nights, at some point two of their own shows would be directly competing with one another, and can you imagine the embarrassment for WWE if the crowd left the HoF partway through so they’d be in their seats in time for WM’s pre-show?

Ryan: FICTION – I think the main reason that it worked so well for New Japan to run two nights of Wrestle Kingdom is because the company doesn’t over-saturate its self on the market. Simply put, New Japan doesn’t have at least five hours of televised product a week, and so they could take their time to flesh out the build to the shows and make them feel more special and far less rushed. If WWE decided to make Wrestlemania two nights instead of one, not only would you have the usual Raw/NXT/Smackdown Live lineup during the week, but you would also have NXT Takeover (Insert City name here), you would have Access, and probably another World’s Collide event as well. Also, while so many matches are jammed in to ONE night of Wrestlemania in the pursuit of getting as many wrestlers a paycheck as possible, imagine TWO nights of matches just for matches sake…oi!

Statement #2: Kazuchika Okada matches in NJPW are too long.

D2Kvirus: FICTION – If you were to use cold, unfeeling logic the only conclusion you could reach is that Okada’s matches are long, after all he wrestled 75 minutes across both nights of Wrestle Kingdom so the logical answer would be that Okada’s matches are too long…but while that may be technically correct it also misses the point entirely.  For the best example of what I’m getting at, look no further than the Royal Rumble: every year the match lasts an hour plus change, so that means that the Rumble is too long, right?  Well that’s the thing, some years the Rumble just fly by (such as 2001, 2004…awkwardly, or 2018) while other years it’s glacially slow and never seems to end, for example 2012 or the grim death march towards the inevitable conclusion that was 2015.  And that’s why Okada’s matches aren’t “too long”, because while they’re usually 30+ minutes they make the most of those 30+ minutes to draw in those watching and the match builds and builds to make the last few minutes something utterly captivating, while in comparison the Epic Triple H Match™ we get every WrestleMania last 20-25 minutes, so on paper they’re shorter than any Okada match, but bloody hell do they drag on almost as long as this answer has.

Ryan: FICTION – To be completely honest, if Okada matches don’t go, say, at least 25 minutes or more (singles matches, not including G1 climax matches against guys like Fale either) then I feel like something is wrong with the world. Those who routinely watch New Japan (or All Japan, NOAH, or Dragon Gate, for that matter) know that the Japanese style of wrestling has, by and large, revolved around the emphasis of the in-ring product and not the entertainment factor. In saying such, Okada, being arguably the biggest face of New Japan and also one of it’s great IWGP World Champions of all-time, could never have a match that mattered and have it end short. The only way it would be acceptable in any circumstance would be if he or whomever he was wrestling was seriously injured, otherwise, Okada matches, the longer they go, are so enthralling and quite engrossing.

https://youtu.be/VLCN39_g_5A

Fact or Fiction – Quick Hits
– one sentence is all you need for this FoF lightning round!

1. The breakout star of NXT in 2020 will be Cameron Grimes.

D2Kvirus: FICTION – It’s probably wishful thinking on my part, but I can see Isaiah Scott breaking out big time in 2020.

Ryan: FACT – I really liked this guy as Trevor Lee and thought he had it, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him become the man in NXT this year.

2. Tetsuya Naito will remain IWGP Heavyweight Champion for at least one year.

D2Kvirus: FACT – While the best chance to make Naito an Ace was in 2018, only for NJPW to throw that away as they wanted Okada breaking records instead, I do think that NJPW will give Naito a lengthy reign to build to the inevitable rematch with Okada at next year’s WK.

Ryan: FICTION – He SHOULD be, but the only man lately that’s gotten treatment as been the Rainmaker, and the other champions reigns have been short…

¡SWITCH!

Statement #3: ROH is going to make a critical and economic comeback in 2020.

Ryan: FICTION – Let me lead off my response by stating the following fact about me: I used to be a big Ring of Honor fan and a blinded supporter of the company. There was a long stretch of time where I felt like they could do no wrong, even when the likes of Kevin Steen, Bryan Danielson, Tyler Black, etc left for the more lucrative waters known as the WWE. However, those days feel like they were centuries ago, and when ROH depended on guys such as the Elite to fill out their card and they left, ROH was left scrambling to pick up the pieces. Early in 2019, Ring of Honor managed to sellout Madison Square Garden (with a lot of help from New Japan), but by the end of the year, they had such poor ticket sales and buys for their Final Battle event. Sinclair Broadcasting Group buys up television stations and contracts like they’re the Vince McMahon Circa 1983 of Network Television, so ROH does have the strong financial backing. But unless they start booking their talent better, pushing their own internal talent instead of outside talent, and stop featuring wrestlers hardly anyone cares for (Looking your way, Bully) they won’t be making a critical comeback in 2020, if ever.

Jake Chambers: FACT – I know it could get worse, but on the other hand, it can’t REALLY get worse, can it? Even IMPACT has started to climb back up and they hit way lower depths than ROH in 2019. I think ROH is one big surprise signing away from making a few waves and that great roster winning back some fans and respect.

D2Kvirus: FICTION – I want them to, really I do, as I’ve been following the company ever since I first stumbled across it on The Wrestling Channel sixteen years ago, but while the company have been promising Big Things for 2020 for the last month or so the issues that came to a head in 2019 aren’t something that happened overnight as the WWE tribalists blaming AEW for everything will have you believe, but the result of the rot setting in years earlier, and as a result ROH’s fortunes for the last couple of years have been a classic case if disaster dominoes: in 2015-16 they lost midcarders like Ciampa, Alexander and Moose as they’d grown tired of their directionless booking, then in early 2017 Cole, O’Reilly and Fish (aka most of their uppercard) signed with NXT, yet rather than having talent ready to step into the void as happened when Punk, Joe, Danielson et al left instead there was a gaping hole.  If the company put together a long-term plan in 2017 the bleed could have stopped, but instead one short-term fix after another was tried as the departures continued, coupled with an apparent disconnect between booking and management judging by some of the stuff Joey Mercury’s tweeted recently, and there’s only so many times you can rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic before you realise your feet are getting wet.

Statement #4: Most wrestling fans are generally dorks.

Ryan: FACT – But let me say this much, being a dork/geek/nerd doesn’t carry nearly the same negative connotation that it did such a long time ago as, say, when I was in school. In fact, Urban Dictionary provides two definitions of said noun, the first being someone who has odd interests, is silly at times, but someone that is them self and doesn’t care what anyone thinks, and the second one is used lovingly by a girl who likes a guy or finds him attractive. See, definitely not negative after all! Besides, given how comic books and said movies, along with the new Star Wars movies, cartoons, anime, and manga have all become mainstream, it’s very much en vogue to be a dork!

Jake Chambers: FACT – There was a brief window in the ’90s when there were a lot of degenerates and jocks going to live wrestling, which was cool, and then a mid-2000s run where you saw a lot of hipsters showing up for the indie boom that I guess was “cool”, but all along the dorks have prevailed. For me a nerd is super book smart and socially awkward, whereas a geek is way into the craft of a specific genre, but a dork is the worst qualities of both wrapped up in a smelly uninformed yet know-it-all arrogance (of course, I’m not talking about any of US here). Go to a house show, indie show, or AEW show for sure and you’ll see what I mean.

D2Kvirus: FACT – Wrestling fans have the same problem that a lot of gamers do: what were once playground arguments of Mario vs Sonic or Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat have mutated into Nintendo fanboys DDOSing Jim Sterling’s site for the crime of him not giving Breath of the Wild a 10/10 score, while with wrestling fans what was a playground arguments about who was better out of Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels has become every AEW article on this site being flooded with comments from the WWE Attack Squad which leave me wondering if Cody Rhodes broke into their homes, spanked them with a handful of stinging nettles, took a photo of the end result before setting that photo as their Twitter profile pic.  Seriously, give it a rest, because the Ringside Confessions feed on Tumblr is less embarrassing for wrestling fans than seeing a bunch of people go Paulie Walnuts several times a day.  If I’m capable of watching New Japan, AEW, ROH and NXT without once engaging in an argument with myself, and that’s an impressive feat considering I’ve won the award of 411mania’s Most Argumentative Poster four years running, then how is it some wrestling fans think that they are only allowed to like one company and anyone who likes another is simply wrong…and if they do, are they equally committed to other brands in their life to the point they spew indignant rage at people who bought a different brand of washing machine?

Alright, well wow, thanks to D2K and Ryan for really stepping up their game and bringing the goods to this week’s column.

But hey, I didn’t want to leave these guys high and dry without something to contribute to in the comments section as well! So here are a couple of bonus statements for them – and anyone else interested – to respond to below!

Statement #5: KENTA is awesome again.

Jake Chambers: FICTION – I’ve enjoyed KENTA’s return to Japan in general, but damn, he used to be SO awesome. He had his “heel” phases, I guess you’d say, in NOAH but it was always tough not to like him due to that undeniable coolness. Now that he’s had to adapt to his age, physical condition, and the unwashable WWE Mediocrity Era stink, I do respect that he can seemingly keep up with the B+ level of NJPW, but not sure he can ever reach the awesome A+ standard of that promotion’s main events or KENTA’s former reputation.

Statement #6: You’re excited for NXT UK Takeover – Blackpool II.

Jake Chambers: FACT – So damn excited. NXT UK is easily my favourite thing WWE does now. The weekly show contains these nice little feuds with good pay-offs and simple character development. Honestly, it’s the closest thing we’ve got to the Lucha Underground formula. I love the idea of a heel vs. heel WALTER/Joe Coffey main event, and really liked the Gallus/Imperium feud overall. I wished the 4-way tag team match wasn’t a Ladder Match, but that could still be good, while Devlin/Bate, Seven/Dennis and the women’s title match all look great on paper. Officially hyped.

Thanks again to Ryan & D2Kvirus, and be sure to hit them up in the comments section and let them know how you felt about their contributions to FoF this week.

Coming next week: Round 1 begins of the 411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction Road to Wrestlemania Invitational Tournament!