wrestling / Columns
Forgotten Favorites 06.08.10: Great American Bash 2004 – John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T vs. Rene Dupree
Welcome back, wrestling fans. We’re getting closer and closer to the mindblowing new concept that is called Fatal 4 Way, and in honor of this groundbreaking new direction the WWE is taking, I have taken it upon myself to highlight a classic Fatal 4 Way of the past.
We’re going all the way back to the blue brand’s midcard in the long-ago year of 2004. There was a certain somebody who was dominating the US Title division and readying himself for a launch into the main event scene. You might have heard of him.
Not a lot of time to waste this week, my most favored readers. So I ask you this, who wants great wrestling?
Great American Bash – June 27, 2004
Fatal 4 Way Elimination Match
United States Championship
John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T vs. Rene Dupree
HOW IT WENT DOWN
It was the post-WrestleMania season and there was a new star being born in World Wrestling Entertainment. At the events twentieth installment and in his WrestleMania debut, John Cena defeated the Big Show to claim his very first title in WWE, the United States Championship. Having been forced into facehood just a few months prior, Cena was quickly becoming one of SmackDown’s most popular wrestlers, and his momentum seemed to have no stop in sight.
Having had a minor affair with the WWE Title scene alongside Chris Benoit and Brock Lesnar in the Fall of ’03, Cena had now settled comfortably into the man sitting atop the midcard division, leading the not-quite-main-eventers as the US Champ. Perhaps in order to test the overall skill level of Cena, as well as whether or not he was yet able to carry a lesser-experienced grappler in the ring, Cena was matched up with Rene Dupree as one of his first championship challenges.
The French Tickler received his shot at Cena’s title in his first singles title match on PPV at 2004’s Judgment Day, taking place on May 16. The rivalry wasn’t quite over following Cena’s successful title defense, and it spilled over into the following SmackDown, where the challenger got some revenge in the form of a count-out victory over Cena. This led to Dupree getting one more shot at Cena’s belt, this time in a Lumberjack match. On the May 27th edition of SmackDown, Cena once again came out victorious against Dupree, yet along the way he made a new enemy in one of the Lumberjacks. An attack from Booker T made it clear, there was a new threat gunning for the US Title.
One week later, Cena wanted to settle his beef with Booker without any hesitation, and he confronted the Bookerman about the prior week’s attack. However, in the midst of said confrontingness, when things turned physical both men ended up colliding with a then-wheelchair-bound Kurt Angle, who also happened to be the acting SmackDown General Manager at the time. Enraged by the incident, Angle declared that it was his mission to see to it that Cena be stripped of his US Title.
Unable to outright strip Cena of the belt, Angle had a plan in mind that would legally get the title off of his freestyling nemesis. The following week on SmackDown, Angle booked Cena in three different singles matches, each with five minute time limits. If any of his opponents could defeat him — Booker T, Rob Van Dam, or Rene Dupree — then that man would receive a title shot at the upcoming Great American Bash. Cena, being the superhero that he is, was able to outlast all of his potential challengers, thus negating the whole point of Angle’s sneaky, sneaky plan. Not to be outdone by superheroness, Angle declared that Cena’s GAB title match would now be a Fatal 4 Way, where Cena would defend his belt against all three of the top US Title contenders in Booker, RVD, and Dupree.
One week later, June 17th, all four men were inside the ring together in tag team action. Booker and Dupree teamed up to take on RVD and US Champ John Cena, giving fans a taste of the upcoming Bash. However, things went all kind of wrong when the unpredictable Undertaker interfered and destroyed every man in his sight, both face and heel. The Deadman’s character was going through some changes at the time, and he seemed hell bent on destroying anything that stood inside a ring with him, regardless of heroic or villainous status.
Cena was understandably upset a week later. He kicked off SmackDown by coming to the ring to address the attack of the maddened Undertaker.
This would all lead to the Undertaker defeating Cena in the main event, going way outside the regular Deadman routine and resorting to using Cena’s steel chain to secure the victory.
Things were not looking good for The Champ going into his most important title defense to date. With the SmackDown GM Kurt Angle breathing down his neck, all of the odds were stacked against the rising John Cena. Could the US Champ retain his title? Or would any of his three challengers rise to the occassion and claim the championship?
WHY IT SHOULD BE REMEMBERED
If there’s any running theme to be picked up on in this column, it’s that I love me some well-booked midcard action. You always want your top stars to be well-matched and organized in the main event scene, but unless you’ve got another batch of future main eventers in the star-making oven called the midcard, you won’t have any main event scene to keep organized a few years down the road. This is wrestling at its most basic, my dear readers. Your humble narrator has said it time and time again: when the midcard is given proper attention and kept in check, the entire show (and company) reap the rewards.
It breaks my heart to have to acknowledge this, but it seems that 2004 may very well have been the last time that the WWE midcard, along with each brand’s respective secondary titles, have all been booked logically and with clear regard for the future of the company. John Cena and Randy Orton were given nearly the entire year to run with their brand’s midcard championships, and each wrestler (as well as the belts themselves) enjoyed a big boost in terms of significance. And not only that, but their interactions with their brand’s competitors in the quest to hold onto their championships saw progress made for each of their combatants. From mixing it up with established, legendary figures (Foley, Rock, Angle, Undertaker) to tangling with fellow midcard title-hopefuls (Benjamin, Edge, Booker, RVD), Orton and Cena became the well-rounded characters and performers that they are today thanks to the E’s proper booking of each guy within the midcard prior to their main event pushes.
Looking at John Cena in particular, we have what was probably the last amazingly well-booked guy on his way through the midcard and up to the main event. Orton’s subsequent main event failure inititally may be attributed to a number of factors, but my main gripe against the E’s whole handling of the Orton situation is that they booked the dude illogically when he dropped his midcard title, all while at the same time they were doing all the perfectly right things with Cena on SmackDown. They pulled the trigger on Orton way too quickly (some say Lesnar-effect; I simply say poor foresight), hoping to make him into everybody’s main event hero yet not having any real reason as to why the fans should be cheering him on. On the other hand, you have Cena, who, having been turned face by the fans, was still sat on for over a year before he was moved up into the main event spot. And this was exactly what needed to be done.
WWE knew what they had going for them in John Cena. The dude became mega over even when they tried booking him as one of those dastardly midcard heels, and they were left with no option but to make him into the Austin-like babyface of SmackDown’s midcard. Even when he became the most popular superstar in the company the WWE still decided to keep him below the main event scene to get his star even hotter. Succeeding against every challenge brought his way (except for a momentary lapse in booking judgment, also known as Carlito), Cena was a bona fide superstar thanks to the time he spent carrying around the US Title, becoming an even bigger and bigger name with every month he spent as the champ. And when his time in the midcard had run its course, with WrestleMania on the horizon, the decision was made to push Cena to his first WWE Title at the Granddaddy of Them All. Instead of just hotshotting the guy all the way to the belt within his first six months, Cena was allowed an extensive amount of time to find his place in the midcard, where he made a star of himself. Since then, Cena’s been the guy in the company, and from all reports it seems that he’s genuinely appreciative of everything he’s got. Compare this to Brock Lesnar, who spent virtually no time in the midcard, and was out of the business a year and a half after winning the belt. And then there’s Bobby Lashley, who was soon out the door (and nearly out of the business) not long after he had one of the feature WrestleMania matches during his McMahon program. The difference between guys like Cena and guys like Lesnar or Lashley is that the Doctor of Thuganomics was given the chance to make himself, rather than the company simply telling the guy immediately upon his debut that he is indeed The Next Big Thing.
So like I said: today’s midcard leads to the main event of tomorrow. This is proven (to an extent) by this week’s featured Great American Bash matchup. First and foremost, you have the defending United States Champion for the majority of 2004 in John Cena, a guy who within less than a year would take a spot at the top of WWE that he has yet to relinquish to this day. Cena was obviously already over when he claimed the US Title at WrestleMania XX, but I don’t think anybody within the E who had a clue as to just how goddamn over the dude would be by the end of the year. With every title defense that passed, Cena’s star just grew and grew, and it became clear that this guy was the future of the company. Without the US Title reign, it’s hard to say whether or not Cena would’ve turned out to be the hugely successful name that he’s proven himself to be.
From there we’ve got the challengers, who, while not enjoying anywhere near the same level of success as Cena, still moved on to bigger and better things. Well… two out of three ain’t bad …
Booker T and Rob Van Dam had been consistent hands in the E’s midcard for years, yet neither of them had been able to establish their spots consistently in the main event scene. When SmackDown was rebuilding in 2004, it was a safe move to get the former Tag Team Champions onto the blue brand to round out the roster. They were the perfect fit for the SmackDown midcard and its US Title scene, which at the time belonged to Cena, still a young grappler in need of guidance from veteran opposition. Booker and RVD were automatically legitimate contenders for the US Title, and their matches against The Champ could do nothing but help advance the future star in terms of his work inside the ring. Indeed, once upon a time John Cena was just another young guy just a couple of years in who needed the older guys to show him the ropes, and Booker and RVD were two of the best teachers Cena could’ve had.
But even then, while Cena enjoyed the most success following this title match, Booker and RVD didn’t do too badly for themselves either. I wouldn’t accredit Booker and RVD’s successes after this SmackDown run directly to this Great American Bash match, but it’s hard to ignore the heights each of these guys would reach within a timeframe similar to Cena. Within two years of this US Title match, both RVD and Booker would win their first E-sanctioned World Titles, with RVD claiming Cena’s WWE Title and King Booker bringing home Rey Mysterio’s World Heavyweight Title.
One more time: today’s midcard leads to the main event of tomorrow. Two years after the Bash 04’s US Title match, three out of four combatants were legitimate WWE/World Champions, comfortably positioned at the top of the card.
And the other guy? Well … he didn’t do too well …
So far I have conveniently ignored the failed experiment known as Rene Dupree, the fourth challenger in the Bash’s US Title contest. Rene enjoyed some measure of success as one half of La Resistance, but he failed to make an impact as a singles competitor. His highest profile moments were likely the ones who shared with Cena, competing for the US Title on the blue brand. I’ve said repeatedly that the midcard gives us the future main eventers, but, as is proven by Dupree, this is not the case with every midcarder. For every Austin or Cena, there’s a Luther Reigns or a Naked Mideon. Not everybody’s going to make it, but the whole point of the midcard is discovering just who is going to make it to the next level. Some guys make it, having displayed above average skill inside the ring and on the mic, and some guys simply don’t go anywhere. Such is the nature of the beast. Such is the fate of Rene Dupree’s career.
WHY IT ISN’T REMEMBERED
History has not been kind to 2004’s Great American Bash. This is partly due to the Bash being currently nonexistent, and mostly due to this particular installment sucking the big one.
What, don’t remember it? Is it such a painful memory that you have blocked it from the wrestling database of your IWC-drenched brain? Let’s have a refresher:
GREAT AMERICAN BASH 2004! (The Bestest Rasslin’ Show EVA!)
– US Title – John Cena defeated René Duprée, Booker T, and Rob Van Dam
– Luther Reigns (with Kurt Angle) defeated Charlie Haas (with Miss Jackie)
– Cruiserweight Title – Rey Mysterio defeated Chavo Guerrero
– Kenzo Suzuki (with Hiroko) defeated Billy Gunn
– Sable defeated Torrie Wilson
– Mordecai defeated Hardcore Holly
– WWE Title – John “Bradshaw” Layfield defeated Eddie Guerrero
– CONCRETE CRYPT MATCH(!) – The Undertaker defeated The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray and D-Von) (with Paul Heyman)
So, even if you never saw this tragedy, you are now on the same page with me as to just how worthy of memory the GAB ’04 really is. To put it mildly, this was one of the worst PPVs in recent wrestling history. Reigns, Haas, Suzuki, Gunn, Mordecai, or Holly — any one of them — getting a singles PPV match in 2004 is absolutely mind boggling and makes no business sense whatsoever. The only justification for throwing these guys into singles action on a show you have to pay to see would be to put any one of them up against a guy who has proven himself as someone the fans will pay to see. But no … these guys were all in action, in three separate matches, matches you had to pay to watch, against each other.
On top of all that, you’ve got the WWE Title match not even going on last, partly due to no one buying Bradshaw as a legitimate threat at the time and partly due to the unnecessarily absurd ending to the Handicap Match.
What, don’t remember that either?
That’s right. The Undertaker, for no apparent reason, killed his longtime manager Paul Bearer by drowning him in concrete. This was a moment that was referenced once, maybe twice, and then never again. Undertaker never turned heel. He never teased anymore heel turns. And his character remained completely unchanged. There was no purpose for this, and it was ridiculous. A concrete crypt match? As a former US Champ might say… REALLY?
Ridiculousness of the concrete segment aside, to think that it’s a good idea to run a handicap match in a PPV main event is completely beyond me, especially when two out of the three components are the Dudleys. Nothing against Bubba Ray and D-Von, they were among the best teams of all time and proved themselves as draws within the tag ranks, but neither of them is a main event PPV draw. They are nowhere close. People paid to see them go up against E&C and the Hardys in some crazy ladder matches, but they weren’t paying just for those matches. To put them in a PPV main event spot against the friggin’ Undertaker is something I will never, ever, ever understand.
And so it is that the black cloud of the shittiness of Great American Bash ’04 will hang over this gem of a US Title match. Being the only worthwhile match on the show, it makes it hard to go back and pop in this DVD to simply watch one match. And that’s all good and okay, because there are wonderful places like Forgotten Favorites where you get all the good stuff with none of the bad.
– –
SmackDown – June 17, 2004
John Cena & Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T & Rene Dupree
– –
Feedback! (The Second Return!)
Unforgiven 2006 was one of the best PPVs the WWE has ever done. A big reason this match was forgotten was because there was the more memorable Hardy vs. Morrison, TLC, Hell in a Cell, and Trish Stratus retirement matches.
Posted By: Nevermore.
This was indeed a stacked card that delivered a hell of a show. I consider Hardy-Morrison to be another Forgotten Favorite itself since there were so many big time matches that went down that night.
The only thing I remember about this period was Orton and Carlito playing second banana to Trish and Lita. And Carlito and Trish had exactly ZERO chemistry. Not that I blame Trish. This is a woman that got to hang out with and kiss Rock in one of the cooler on-screen romances ever, and at the end of her career she was stuck with a second rate Razor Ramon with an afro. Hard to blame the girl for not caring.
Posted By: Guest#0323
I don’t think Carlito and Trish were that bad of a couple, but they’re certainly one of the lesser remembered ones in recent E history. The partnership did next to nothing for either wrestler and the pairing was proved meaningless when Stratus retired before the angle was given any real direction.
Carlito got to make out with Trish. That was the highlight of his career. Dude stopped trying after she left, as would I.
Posted By: Guest#4070
His work was already shaky before the kiss, but you may be right; Carlito knew he had flown too close to the sun, and he would never again reach such great heights.
Carlito was never anything more than a glorified midcarder. Never saw the “wasted potential” that everybody else saw.
Posted By: Guest#4108
I don’t know that he would’ve been the next Austin or Rock, but I do believe that Carlito had the tools to at the very least make himself into a legitimate challenger for a World Title. He had a hell of a strong personality, one that I thought could make up for some inconsistencies inside the ring. Only problem was that the inconsistencies became a regular occurrence, and he just transformed into a consistently boring and sloppy wrestler. But there was indeed a time before all that when I thought he showed some promise.
Trish Stratus, Lita, John Cena, Edge, Randy Orton, and Carlito. One of these things is not like the other.
Posted By: Guest#8071
Lita’s the only one who worked for the original ECW! … right?
The match has a sick RKO. That’s about it.
Posted By: The Dutch
Sick RKO, yes, but great match preceding the sickness.
Interesting, I thought Orton had only started pounding on the mat since the birth of his “Voices” gimmick.
lol character development ftw.
Posted By: ClC
This match had early signs of the onset of IED.
Great article. Unforgiven 06 was definitely a great PPV as Raw really didn’t have a bad PPV throughout all of 2006. This match really got lost in the shuffle throughout all of the other great stuff that happened throughout the night.
Posted By: Ronnie LaFianza
Cena-Edge still stands as the best outing between the two, impressive considering the awesome series of matches these guys have had over the years. Unforgiven ’06 is right up there among the very best single branded PPVs, perhaps Raw’s finest independent showing.
dito. carlito had the charisma, but his overall skill level and look couldnt make it past the midcard..
if carlito was motivated all the time you still wouldnt see him headlining ppv’s
Posted By: Guest#9048
My only argument with that is I think Carlito’s ‘overall skill level,’ or at least the perception of it, has been tainted by the guy’s inability to consistently be awesome. The guy showed at times that he could be a hell of a better performer than he generally was, and that’s what’s been most disappointing about the dude’s career.
As for his look, I think it actually helps him a hell of a lot more than it hurts him. You don’t have a lot of afro-sporting Puerto Ricans in the main event scene, and being unique goes a long way in making it to the top, sometimes outweighing a lack of flare inside the ring. Just look at Sheamus.
Above average match, but probably the most impressive RKO ever!
Posted By: Guest#2954
Both men were never the same after this RKO. The brain damage that Carlito suffered caused the confusing series of face/heel turns that he underwent on a monthly basis, and Orton cried every night remembering the horror of what he done.
Good match, and as cool as that RKO was, I cannot stand those spots. I mean, what was Carlito trying to do at that moment? I cannot stand it when a wrestler jumps from the top into a move. A truly bad example is the Jericho/HHH at Wrestlemania, where Jericho just jumps into the pedigree. The only time I recall the spot not looking overly forced would be the ending of the HBK/Benjamin match on RAW, but that’s mainly because of the sick SCM. I liked Carltio at first, and when he was motivated, he brought the goods, and he had a unique look, but he just never really connected with the fans.
Posted By: RKOwned
Agreed on the pointless top rope spots. I’m always bothered by the one where a guy jumps off the top rope towards a downed opponent and gets a boot in the face from the guy laying on the mat. The wrestler jumping off the rope usually lands standing on his feet next to the guy, hitting the guy’s boot with his face and hands. Everytime it’s done a little part of me dies, since it’s completely inconceivable as to what the top rope jumper is attempting to do offensively. I feel like I haven’t seen this spot as much recently, but it still haunts my dreams.
“By DiBiase’s logic, success in the wrestling industry has absolutely nothing to do with an individual’s talent and everything to do with whether or not Vince McMahon wishes to create a star.”
In DiBiase’s defense, this is not “his” logic. That was the unfortunate truth of the wrestling business during his and Warrior’s prime, and has remained so virtually unchanged until this very day.
Posted By: Bruce L
Not agreed. Vince McMahon’s wishes play a significant part, but they aren’t the only factor in whether or not a guy becomes a legitimate star. To say that a wrestler’s level of talent has nothing to do with whether or not he makes it is not only a slap in the face of the business but it’s also just simply not true.
Unforgiven 2006 was one of the best PPVs the WWE has ever done. A big reason this match was forgotten was because there was the more memorable Hardy vs. Morrison, TLC, Hell in a Cell, and Trish Stratus retirement matches.
Posted By: Nevermore.
Agreed. Stacked card in Canada! This match was just buried on the undercard sadly. It never had a chance.
Posted By: Bobo
More much-deserved Unforgiven love.
Carlito was never anything more than a glorified midcarder. Never saw the “wasted potential” that everybody else saw.
Posted By: Guest#4108
Preaching to the choir brother! Just because someone doesn’t make it to the main event level, it doesn’t mean he was lazy or held down.
Some are just ‘not that good’ and peak at the midcard level.
Posted By: Comment On Me!
It may turn out that Carlito never was ‘that good’ and the flashes of greatness he showed from time to time were nothing more than him just having a really good night. But based on how good he seemed at times, combined with a unique flavor of charisma, it looked like he had a shot at making it to the main event.
This column is why I wake up in the morning
Posted By: Underwater Rabbit
I hear the underwater rabbit swims like it’s old habit. Kind of like a dolphin.
You’re right about Carlito and Billy, but not Ken. Mr Anderson has GOT it. Anyone that can singlehandedly have the crowd eating out of his hand like he had last week, has got the goods.
Posted By: poffo316
I agree that Anderson’s got the goods on the mic. I prefer the guy as a heel, but I think he’s talented enough to fire up a crowd whether playing the hero or the villain. That being said, I have never been impressed with Anderson as a pure wrestler. I haven’t watched much of his run in TNA, but his in-ring showings in WWE were sloppy, bland, and boring. As a talker, I agree wholeheartedly that the guy has the ‘it’ factor, but until his ringwork catches up, he will never be the breakout star that he (like Carlito) sometimes seemed capable of becoming.
Ric Flair once got a good match out of El Gigante. You don’t have to be talented to have a good match if the guy you’re facing is fucking amazing. Warrior wasn’t awful, but he wasn’t even close to good. His best matches came against Savage, a notorious control freak who planned matches out move-for-move beforehand so even the shittiest of wrestlers could look great. The Hogan/Warrior match was a slight variation on Hogan’s formula from the era which usually produced decent matches. Warrior was only good when the men he was facing were great. When he was forced to stand on his own, he flopped. Hard. It’s the reason the belt got hotshotted onto Slaughter so they could push reset and go with Hogan again.
But going with the the two guys in this match, Orton is proof positive that WWE creates stars. The guy has had more opportunities and failed more then probably anyone else in wrestling. Bland babyface? No one cares. Orton injury updates were a hit with smarks but the audience still didn’t care. So they shoved him into Evolution, put him over just about anyoyne that matters, and he finally got over (mostly because of Mick Foley). But they turned him face, and that failed. He’s been pushed off-and-on as the top heel in the company since ’06. It didn’t fully catch on until he started kicking people in the head and “injuring” them, which probably would have worked for just about any heel in that position.
Listen, I actually like the Viper character but Orton is a product of never-ending WWE hype. He didn’t warrant the attention he got until maybe two years ago. He’s been with the company for something like seven or eight years now. WWE was determined to make him a star whether we wanted it or not.
Posted By: Guest#4791
I’d never say that Warrior was great, but I’ll also never say that the guy had no idea what he was doing inside the ring. He had a natural charisma about him and he knew the right way to fire up a crowd. He can’t be called an interchangeable cog in the wrestling machine, because there have been countless cases of guys with virtually the same gimmick as Warrior, with the insane physique and the facepaint and the barbaric, screaming promos. He was nowhere near the league of the greatest of all time (the likes of which surrounded him at the height of his popularity), but Warrior had to be talented in order to hang in there with his legendary opponents.
Orton’s an interesting case, as I think his stalled rise to his currently occupied role of consistent main eventer was due to failings both on the part of WWE and Orton himself. The bland babyface character was destined to fail, and I believe WWE knew this, likely aiming for the Rocky Maivia effect that would lead to a money-making heel turn for Randy. Of course that all went out the window with Orton’s first of many injuries, setbacks that kept him from establishing any kind of solid ground for himself until he picked up the IC Title and started feuding with Foley. He played the midcard heel well throughout 2004 and had the E not rushed his face turn, I think Orton’s main event status would’ve been solidified much sooner. Poor booking and a bad attitude kept Orton from making any kind of progress until 2007, coincidentally around the time that Randy became a family man. I think it was at this point that Orton was able to get his priorities in check and start taking his job more seriously, because you can definitely see a change in his performance from that point on.
I love carlito.
Posted By: Csonkamaniac III
Carlito loves the little Csonkamaniac IIIs. All around the world.
Good choice this week!
While we’re in this ballpark: Carlito vs. Masters from Backlash 2006 was surprisingly good. As was HBK vs. Masters from Unforgiven 2005 (even more so due to the psychology of the Masterlock)
Posted By: mr_wishart
Haven’t seen either of these as I have assumed that any singles contests (that aren’t pec-dancing-related) involving Chris Masters are to be avoided. However, for you mr_wishart, I will break from routine and investigate.
He took cenas us title on his debut. 5 Years go quick.
Posted By: Guest#0431
Carlito probably agrees.
I was live for Unforgiven 2006 and I remember leaving so pleased with the show. Randy Orton vs. Carlito and more so Jeff Hardy vs. John Morrison from the same show were both forgotten great matches.
These two great matches were surrounded by a very fun and bloody Hell in a Cell. A very emotional retirement match for Toronto fans (Trish Stratus vs. Lita). And also a great TLC match to cap off the night (way better than the last TLC match).
Honestly this show should get more recognition as one of WWE’s very best.
Posted By: Guest#3368
Totally agreed. I love me some Unforgiven ’06. Being a pretty big Edge mark, I loved the crowd response for the title match.
I never got the big deal with Trish’s retirement match, and I’m a fan of her. It was too forced, and not what it could have been. Given how much time they spent in building up the feud with Mickie that year, that’s who her opponent should have been. Putting Lita in there killed the suspense, as alot of us knew she was leaving as well. Should have had Trish beat Mickie to regain the belt, and then turn Mickie face the next night through Lita. Also hated the Sharpshooter finish, made the match feel more like a “Canada” moment than a “Trish” moment. Oh well. I guess it was good it happened in Toronto at least. I doubt Trish would have been cheered that much anywhere else. She was never that over as a face.
Posted By: Guest#5912
I don’t know, man. Trish seemed pretty mega-over as either a heel or a face, but that’s just my opinion. But yeah, I never got the big deal with the retirement match either. I attribute this mostly to the fact that I don’t give a damn about women’s wrestling. That’s not a knock on Trish, because I think she was actually one of the best the E’s division has ever seen. But even then, I still don’t care. I’ll stick with my memories of better days and Bra and Panties matches.
That RKO was the end of Carlito’s career. He has not been the same since that RKO.
Posted By: LetsgoMEts1981
Like I said, Orton cries every night over what he done. He knows what he done.
im just wondering what do u look for in a forgotten favorite do you look for a match with good build up and a good match but was still forgotten or just a one off match that was forgotten
Posted By: laparkinator
The quality of the action in a match plays a big part, but that’s not say the match’s build isn’t a factor. I’m more inclined to pick something that’s sort of a got a build (even if it’s minor) than a one off match with little implications. I try to go with matches that aren’t typical choices for a “Best Of” or a “Top 5” list, trying to find stuff that hasn’t had extensive DVD release or isn’t talked about so much within IWC debates.
Orton and Carlito are prime examples of guys getting a push because of their fathers.
Carlito was never going to get over as a main eventer because he never had the appearance of a true threat to the top faces at the time. As one commenter said, he was nothing but a glorified midcarder.
It had nothing to do with look, because the guy never cut a promo that made him stand out.
As for Orton, I liked the guy better when he was a heel. WWE will never put him over Cena as the face of the company because he doesn’t move merchandise the way Cena does.
Posted By: JR
Orton and Carlito may have gotten the push because of their fathers (and they certainly did), but whether or not they were going to succeed was to be determined by their own actions. Orton eventually got his act together and proved himself worthy of the hype, but Carlito was never able to make good on the promises that WWE made its fans regarding his potential.
Well, the clear frontrunner in my mind for Fatal Four-Way matches is Angle/Benoit/Edge/Guerrero for the Armageddon ’02 WWE Championship match. It was the highlight of highlights of the SmackDown Six.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce
I want to take that match out to dinner and impress its mother. I want to run away and start a new life with it. For these reasons, I covered this match early into my 411 career. Double dipping would be nice, but it would probably be frowned upon. Regardless, I want to put a baby inside this match.
I feel like that came out wrong.
2006 imo was the last well booked year in wwe. in 2007 it started falling apart with the injuries of triple h, undertaker, shawn michaels, mr. kennedy and edge. and of course the incident the benoit murder-suicide from where wwe went downhill. wwe is not the same after that.
Posted By: Guest#9834
I blame all of it on Benoit and the sudden shift to PG programming. Since then the storylines and match-ups have become increasingly repetitive and dull, lacking the excitement or anything-can-happen feeling that once was a part of the E’s programming. I understand that with kids being the primary target it becomes possible to run a year and a half of Orton, HHH, and Cena in the main event every month, and it doesn’t change the fact that it’s all been incredibly boring. Marketing to kids doesn’t necessarily have to make the product into something so bland, but in WWE’s case, it has.
Maybe this isn’t what you had in mind in terms of marking the “fatal four way” but I’d go with the matchup in the February 1997 PPV titled “Final Four.” This emerged from the results of the Rumble and had four of the top stars at the time: Vader, UT, Bret Hart and Steven Austin. It was an odd match given that it was a 4 way battle royal where pins also counted, but it was an excellent match in which all four participants were at the top of their game. The reason it doesn’t get as much notice today was that the Austin/Hart WM encounter that overshadowed it, and the fact that Vader pretty much went nowhere from here (excepting the excellent Vader/UT encounter in July).
Posted By: Michael L
I’m a big fan of this match and I think it qualifies as a Forgotten Favorite, although just barely. I say that only because of the historical implications, which were pretty significant. Then again, you could make the case that just about any Vader match in WWE was a Forgotten Favorite.
Im going to guess the F4W is from SD 02.. Eddie vs Benoit vs Angle vs Edge… available on the Armageddon 02 DVD
Posted By: Chad
Once again, I want to put a diamond on this match’s finger. I want to love it passionately for 2.5 years and then send alimony every month when it inevitably breaks my heart and turns me away because I am not worthy. For these reasons, I covered this match some time back.
Best Fatal Four Way? Benoit v Guererro v Jericho v X-Pac at No Way Out 2001. Flat-out, super-stiff action. Probably my favourite PPV.
Posted By: Guest#7358
A great match indeed, but there’s that one guy in it. And I ain’t talking about Chyna’s midget lover person.
“Trish Stratus, Lita, John Cena, Edge, Randy Orton, and Carlito. One of these things is not like the other.”
It’s Trish, she’s the only one that’s not a man.
Posted By: Blanky
Well done, Blanky. Well done.
Mr Anderson has GOT it. Anyone that can singlehandedly have the crowd eating out of his hand like he had last week, has got the goods.
Posted By: poffo316
The non-paying cast member “Cancer Crew” audience, you mean? Fail.
Posted By: BAD EXAMPLE BUDDY
The Bad Example Buddy strikes again. As usual, he has a point.
vince can has tried repeatedly over the years to force hs new star down the fans’ throat (edge, warrior, cena). sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, but youre pulling the same shit by taking sides and defending carlito and the WARRIOr. dont give your day jobe, whatever that is
Posted By: pjl
I would never give my day jobe. I thought you knew me better than that.
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That’ll do it for this week. As always, stay safe and out of Dundalk.
