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411 Fact or Fiction Wrestling ROH Edition: Are You Looking Forward to ROH Ladder War VI?
Welcome back to the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction, Wrestling Edition! Stuff happened, people loved/hated it and let everyone else know. I pick through the interesting/not so interesting tidbits and then make 411 staff members discuss them for your pleasure. Battling this week are 411’s Paul Leazar, Mitch Nickelson and Dylan Diot!
1. The Adam Cole vs. Michael Elgin match is a lame duck main event with zero chance of a title switch.
Paul Leazar: FACT – Ring of Honor is living by a double edged sword at this moment. They want to put the title on Kyle O’Reilly, and they’ve done a swell job of building up the heat between him and Cole. The path for Kyle is laid out clearly before him, they just have to walk it. Unfortunately, that means that every time Cole defends the championship, you already know he’s gonna walk out with it. I don’t think that lessens the drama for this championship match. Just because you know Cole will walk out with title, doesn’t mean these guys can’t approach the match differently. How will Cole walk out with the belt becomes the bigger question, and RoH did a good job of playing up on their most recent episode of RoH TV that Elgin was the one who took the belt off of Cole the first time around. I’ll be watching to see if they let Cole win clean, or if they continue to play up the Bullet Club vs. RoH feud some more.
Mitch Nickelson: FACT – Even though Ring of Honor has planted the seed with Tomohiro Ishii’s TV Title reign a few months back that these New Japan matchups can result in a title change, that simply isn’t happening here. If anybody is taking the title off of Adam Cole, it’ll be Kyle O’Reilly whenever he finally gets a proper challenge. Even though Elgin isn’t walking out with the belt, that doesn’t mean this won’t be a good match. I’m even sort of hoping for the ridiculous mega-interference by Cole’s Bullet Club buddies just to see Big Mike go on tear and power move all of them.
Dylan Diot: FACT – Yeah this absolutely is a lame duck main event from a booking standpoint. The big picture is gearing toward Adam Cole defending against Kyle O’Reilly so obviously Cole will need some successfully defenses to build him up for the huge blowoff, likely for Final Battle. Elgin is just coming off a reign as IWGP Intercontinental Champion and has a history with Cole, so he’ll serve well as a first big challenge in Cole’s second reign. However, we can’t kid ourselves and say Elgin has any sort of chance of becoming ROH Champion.
2. Kamaitachi vs. Dragon Lee will steal the show at All Star Extravaganza.
Paul Leazar: FICTION – I have absolutely zero doubts that this match won’t deliver. Both guys, however, aren’t super over with the crowd, I question how much time they will actually be given, and even these two guys know each other backwards and forwards, I doubt we’ll see a repeat of their earlier encounters from this year. That’s not to say they can’t make a splash, but it WILL not steal the show.
Mitch Nickelson: FACT – Looking at the card, I’ll have to go with Fact here. I know the least out of these guys since they’re newer to the promotion than pretty much everyone on the rest of the roster but I know enough to know that they’ve got the best chance for the “fast paced flippy stuff.” Matches like Lethal vs. Naito and Fish vs. Dijak also have show-stealing aspects but for not the same reasons. I’m sort of ignoring the Ladder War matchup in this analysis for the moment, but that one has way more hype. It’s not really “stealing the show” when you’re one of the most advertised matchups on the card.
Dylan Diot: FICTION – This should be one of the best matches of the entire show, but they have a tall task in trying to be the overall best match of the night. The expectations are going to be incredibly high when you consider how great their feud was in CMLL over the past few years and the amazing matches they had this year alone in both CMLL and New Japan. To try and create that magic in front of an unfamiliar audience is a huge challenge so while I think both are going to give it their all and will have an excellent match, I don’t think they will be able to top Ladder War for best of the evening.
3. ROH adding six-man tag team titles to the mix is a poor idea.
Paul Leazar: FICTION – I bounce back and forth on this idea quite a bit. It feels like the idea came out of nowhere, and these belts could easily get lost in the shuffle if Ring of Honor isn’t careful. It does, however, give RoH another way to focus on their midcard guys that really need some shine due to all of the influx of foreign talent that RoH has been using recently that continue to dominate the top of the card. The creation of these championships also plays into both of their relationships with CMLL & New Japan, who both have six man or trios titles, and I think it could for a fun story for a team to try and capture all three at some point (Bullet Club, or Matt Taven’s New Kingdom come to mind as people who could gun for it on the RoH side). These championships can have value, Ring of Honor just has to execute it correctly.
Mitch Nickelson: FACT – I hate to be negative but I really don’t have any interest in these new belts. The Trios titles only really work in Lucha Underground because they don’t have traditional tag titles. Putting both styles of championships in one promotion makes it more likely that they’re just going to pull from the same class of guys. Even looking at the first round match on this card, one of the three man groups includes The Briscoes. Pairing them with Yano will probably be funny but it feels like something to pass the time until Mark & Jay are ready for another serious run at the “real” tag titles. Hopefully I’m wrong and ROH finds a way to make all of this interesting but it feels like too much to me.
Dylan Diot: FICTION – I have no issues with the creation of six-man tag team championships in ROH. The belts could actually serve a good purpose in creating bigger matches and putting more emphasis on guys who aren’t in featured programs like Lio Rush and Silas Young among others. It’ll at least keep them busy and put them in relevant spots on cards competing for the titles rather being thrown in meaningless multi-man matches show after show. This will be a huge benefit to the lower mid card and if nothing else we will get really fun six man tag matches on ROH shows going forward.
SWITCH!
4. Donovan Dijak should win the TV Title from Bobby Fish at All Star Extravaganza.
Dylan Diot: FICTION – Bobby Fish is having a really good run as TV Champion and I think you can drag out Dijak’s eventually victory a few more months until Final Battle where it can be a bigger moment for him and help launch him into the next level of stardom in the promotion. I think better things will come from holding off a title change for a few more months than be getting him the championship right away in this match
Mitch Nickelson: FACT – Donavan Dijak is one of the best rising talents Ring of Honor has so yes, he should win the TV Title at All Star Extravaganza. He’s got a massive size that gives him the believability that he can legitimately go with whomever he’s facing off against. Plus, he’s just a darn good wrestler. He’s especially good with the faced paced smaller guys. A somewhat recent match he had with Top Prospect 2016 competitor Jason Kincaid stood out to me as one of my more favorite ROH TV matches because of how athletic they were with each other. Like in the Kincaid match, Dijak can wrestle like he’s trying to get on next year’s Cruiserweight Classic but at the same time he’s way too large to make that weight cut. It’s actually surprising he’s not getting massive WWE interest. ROH should push him as far as they can while they have him.
Paul Leazar: FACT – Look, I love Bobby Fish as much as the next guy. He’s a great talent, he’s great on the mic, and he’s everything you want in a champion. I do, however, feel like it’s Donovan’s time. Ring of Honor needs another guy they’ve built up on their own on the big stage, and Dijak has everything in place for him to succeed with the Television Championship around his waist, and Prince Nana at his side. There are also all those pesky rumors about reDRagon possibly moving on to New Japan full time, and I’d rather start building up somebody now, then wait to be left in the dust if that move ever does happen. Plus, I think Dijak could have a great feud with Dalton Castle that could tear houses down across the country.
5. The match your most looking forward to is the Addiction vs. The Young Bucks vs. The Motor City Machine in Ladder War VI.
Dylan Diot: FACT – Nearly every Ladder War in the history of ROH has delivered and I expect this one to do the same. These three teams will want to go out there and tear the house down with some of the crazy bumps and spots we will see this year and I think we have the potential ROH Match of the Year on our hands. My anticipation for what these three teams will try to pull off is incredibly high and I can’t wait for this match to finally go down.
Mitch Nickelson: FACT – Of course I’m most looking forward to this one. This is ROH’s signature big spot-fest match and who doesn’t love that? The Addiction are the champs going in and I’m rooting for a Young Bucks victory. I wasn’t super excited about an ROH incarnation of Bullet Club at first but Cole and the Bucks (and even Page) have made this work. The only thing to make it even more than just a New Japan cash grab is for Matt and Nick to walk out with the ROH Tag Team Championships.
Paul Leazar: FACT – Ladder War in Ring of Honor has it’s own aura about it. They don’t go to these sort of stipulations often, but when they do, they usually kick all kinds of ass. The best Ladder War still has to be the first one in my opinion, and these three teams are going to put on a war that’ll go right up with there with the others as worthy of getting the match. The booking going towards it might not have been the perfect storm, but Daniels sold me on it with his promo on the most recent episode of RoH TV. The Young Bucks will steal the show, and the others will get their moments too, but nothing is stopping The Bucks from walking out of All Star Extravaganza with those RoH World Tag Team Titles.
6. What is your excitement level for the ROH All Star Extravaganza PPV?
Dylan Diot: 8 out of 10 – While the buildup to this card has been flat on TV, going up and down the lineup in terms of potential and fresh matches this one of the stronger ROH cards in some time. Every single match at minimum should be fun and there are four matches (Kamaitacho/Lee, Ladder War, Lethal/Naito, Cole/Elgin) that have show stealing potential. I think this show is going to be a blast and deliver big time and there is a strong possibility that this could be the ROH Show of the Year. I’m really looking forward to this one.
Mitch Nickelson: 6 out of 10 – This should be a solid show and if wrestling wasn’t at such an over saturation level right now, I’d bump up my number to a 7 or 8. The Ladder War match, Cole vs. Elgin, Lee vs. Kamaitachi, and so many others should be really good wrestling matches. Also, Dalton Castle will be teaming up with Colt Cabana, which should be hilarious. This will be fun and thankfully it’s happening on a week when WWE has no PPVs of their own going on because if ROH were running this show on a week with a WWE event, I’d hate to say that I’d be tempted to skip it.
Paul Leazar: 8 out of 10 – I’ve been really pleased with everything Ring of Honor has been putting on our TV screens for the build up for all of this. It hasn’t been anything out of this world amazing, but it’s been solid. Most, if not all the matches, have something behind them, and the quality of matches we could get across the card could be stellar. For me, Friday night cannot get here soon enough. Let’s just hope Ring of Honor doesn’t try to get cute with the finishes or anything like that again.
