411’s Broken Skull Sessions Report: Cody Rhodes on His WWE Exit, Creation of AEW, More

411’s Broken Skull Sessions: Cody Rhodes Report

-This should be fascinating, so no point in wasting time. Let’s get to it!

-Run Time: 1:52:39

-Stone Cold Steve Austin welcomes us to the show and introduces his guest: “The American Nightmare” Cody Rhodes.

-They break out Stone Cold’s IPA and toast to each other. Cody tells us he has waited to try this IPA until he was here with Austin and tells him it was worth the wait.

-Before getting into things they have a discussion about watches as both are apparently big in to collecting time pieces. The ROLEX Cody is sporting was a gift and he tells a story of how Dusty always told him that you don’t get a ROLEX until you become World Champion. He knows if Dusty were here now he would tell him that it looks good on him. He tells a story of how when Dusty passed all his possessions were divided up between the kids and his mom. Before his passing there was a ROLEX he bought after winning the NWA Title from Flair at The Bash or The Gathering. It was set in stone that it was going to go to Cody and even Dustin understood. He mentions there was some heat between the girls over other items that weren’t set in stone as to who got what. Well, he waited and just mentioned it to his mom and she told him that Dusty pawned it for money to send Cody to acting classes back when the family was broke. They didn’t act broke because it was The American Dream but they were broke. He laughs as the ROLEX is huge because Dusty had massive wrists and he hopes whoever is bought it is enjoying it.

-Austin tells his own watch story as he bought an OMEGA piece as his first big purchase and he had it on when he got into a brawl on RAW with Taker. We see footage of the watch getting knocked off his wrist and he is on the mat trying to see where it went and Taker walked right on it and destroyed the band.

-Next they discuss whiskey as Cody has a show he hopes airs soon about the journey of a bottle of whiskey. He says he likes bourbon, but isn’t an expert as he just knows what he likes and doesn’t. They discuss smelling bourbon and sipping wine. That leads to Cody bringing out gifts as he has 3 bottles of wine that he had made with a winery that represents the family. There is one in a Polka Dot bottle for Dusty, one with his American Nightmare symbol, and one representing Brandi. It’s the entire family minus Dustin as he is living the sober life now. Austin thanks him for the gifts and now we get into things.

-WrestleMania 38: We go to the video and they just let Cody’s entrance play for a bit. They both marvel over the reaction and Austin mentions Road Warrior Pop which has Cody beaming. They show the spot where Cody paid homage to Stardust after telling WWE he never wanted to do anything with it again. He understands a heel may bring it up, but for him to do it was just something in the moment. He puts over Graves for saying he was shedding the Stardust skin. Cody says he was an angry guy and he knows where he came from. He thanks everyone in that stadium for feeling it with him. The crowd is losing it as he goes through The Dusty punches and elbows and then gets the clean win. Austin says he was watching in the back and all he could think was “this is a great F’N match.” Yes, Austin used PG language.

-Cody had the thought that some felt the match was a freebie as the crowd was just going to be happy to see him. For him he wanted it to be about the moment and the match. He puts over Seth as a WRESTLER and this had to be a “BANGER Match.” He felt the match needed to be classic wrestling as the show is called WRESTLEmania. He talks about how Shawn always told him you don’t need to ask people about how good a match is as you should know yourself. He says the match is the biggest thing he has done and may ever do.

-They talk about crowds booing or cheering and how a reaction is better than no reaction. Cody just wants fans to have a good time and he can roll with what they want to do. He appreciates Austin introduced him as a 16-year veteran because he started in his early 20s with WWE.

-Cody talks about how people like Michael Hayes and others in charge may not have known about The American Nightmare character. He wants to play quarterback and run with the ball, but did take 24 hours to enjoy what happened at WrestleMania.

-Austin talks about watching Houston Wrestling as a kid and Dusty was bleeding like a stuck pig. The arena was smoke filled and a cop had a gun and Austin asked his mom why the cop didn’t help Dusty. It’s still real to baby Stone Cold! Cody talks about his first introduction was Dusty putting him in a WWE ring and he remembers seeing the WWF logo on the buckles. His mom told him he never had to be a wrestler, but says they never gave him any other options. He would go to shows and remembers being at Halloween Havoc at age 6 where Austin and Dustin had a banger. He didn’t get to see his dad in his prime but saw the way Dusty held court backstage and how he knew Dusty was in a powerful position. He wanted to do that and that’s what he got to do a bit with AEW. Even as a kid he was proud of his dad even if he didn’t understand why and that just set up what he wanted to do with his life.

-They flash a photo of Dusty with the NWA Title and Cody jokes that Dusty wore those tights to go swimming. Awesome! He tells a story of the family using a community pool in their neighborhood and Dusty was so comfortable in his skin. Cody puts over Dusty as a wonderful athlete. Austin mentions he was a football player. Cody says Dusty had fundamental skills until he didn’t have to use them anymore.

-Cody says his mom never found an alternative and the only time Dusty was worried about Cody getting into the business was during The Attitude Era. He knew Cody was an older soul as far as wrestling and he had the idea that Cody should be an actor. It seems Dusty would put over to everyone how handsome Cody was which Cody jokes set him up for failure. Everything got jumbled when Cody became a very good amateur wrestler in high school. His parents thought he may get into the MMA World as Cody was into BJJ his last two years of high school. He wanted to shut up some of the critics that knocked Dusty for being an entertainer. He was getting letters for wrestling from Penn State among other colleges. Cody says there was never any doubt that pro-wrestling was in his future.

-Cody was allowed to take a bump and run the ropes when he was fifteen. Dusty had TCW and the rule was that he couldn’t have a match but could train. Once the doors shut, he would work matches with some of the Power Plant guys that came over and then when the doors opened it was back to basic training. All Dusty ever did was slam him on his first day to see how he felt and then gave him a hiptoss later. His training was with Paul Heyman in OWV, Greg Gagne, Danny Davis, Al Snow. He says Al was his primary trainer and Austin puts over Al as being amazing. He mentions how he still remembers things he was told including Danny Davis chewing him out for starting a comeback with a duck. All that fire and you duck something. He thinks he needed a few more years to bake in developmental, but he was called up and learned more while on the road.

-Austin tells a Danny Davis story as Austin wanted to learn from him and Danny told Austin to call the match. That freaked Austin out and Davis told him he had seen his work and trusted him and would be out there to help.

-They talk the idea of being over and Cody says that word has been misused more than any other term. He realized it during his run as EVP in AEW. Over is what Austin and Rock were doing selling out building after building. It takes years and is a loyalty between the wrestler and the fans. He doesn’t think many people in wrestling are over, but many people are trying (including himself). Over is the level of business that the mid 80s had and the late 90s had. He knows there is talk of cord cutting and what not and things may be on the up trend, but there is a difference. He knows the industry is healthy right now but has ways to go. He brings up that Austin was in his mid 30s during the Attitude Era and the prime for a wrestler is 35-42 and Austin agrees. He wants to bang his head off a table when someone says “this kid is so over.”

-They talk getting advice and as a kid you take the advice for verbatim, but 10-15 years later you learn and will do your own thing and if you are wrong then you learn.

-We jump back to 2007 when Cody and Dustin put Dusty into the WWE Hall of Fame. Cody mentions that Dusty wasn’t a WWE guy, though he says the Polka Dot run was very good as he worked with Dibiase, Bossman and Savage. People think of NWA Dusty and it was cool that he headlined a WWE Hall of Fame show. He says the two people that helped Dusty with his confidence after WCW was Paul Heyman in ECW and Stephanie McMahon in WWE. Cody says the HOF was the best thing and worst thing for him personally. He tells a story of how his dad would make him cut promos on the produce section of grocery stores. He laughs that Dusty always had heat with lettuce for some reason. Fantastic! Cody’s speech that night wasn’t a promo as promos are hard and this was just him talking about his dad. However, Prichard and company loved how well he spoke and that rushed him from OWV to the main roster. Austin didn’t know that story and was one of the people sitting there thinking how great Cody came off.

-Cody brings up that Dusty gets heat for booking himself as Champion, but he was the most over face they had and Flair was the biggest heel and it worked. He would use those shots at his dad and become defensive. He puts over his sister as being the gatekeeper for Dusty as she takes on anyone bad mouthing him.

-RAW: July 2007: Cody Rhodes makes his RAW debut against Randy Orton. He has Dusty in his corner and Cody says it was like walking in a fight you know you won’t win. He could tell he was beyond nervous because he was fake chewing gum and talking gibberish. He puts over Malenko for being the producer on the match. Austin loves Dean and puts over Dean’s sense of humor. RKO finishes as Cody loses his RAW debut. Austin asks if there was added pressure with Dusty being out there. Cody says he wasn’t smart enough to get the whole story. Looking back he knows it was all the right time and what they did was right. Dusty was in a feud with Randy and he says it was a blessing that he was introduced to the fans as a rookie. That gave him some grace and he tells all the kids at his school that they will love being a rookie because you can F up. His debut was with his father by his side and one of his mentors in the ring. He got to do his first autograph and photo at the airport that night and he felt he was famous. Austin laughs at that story!

-Cody goes back to Mania and thanks Austin for the house as that was the most fans he has been in front of in a long time. OHHHH! SHOTS FIRED! Not really but it was funny hearing him say that. Austin laughs and says it was a team effort but thanks Cody for the compliment. Cody mentions the biggest picture outside the stadium was Austin dead in the middle. He wants to have the spot and feels it was a great Mania to return. Austin mentions Becky and Bianca tore the house down and Becky also thanked him for the house which popped him. He appreciates old school touches like that. Cody: “whoever is on top you have to thank them.” That’s kind of cool!

-We move to 2008 and Legacy! Austin asks what Cody learned from Randy. Cody says he has always mentioned Randy was a great mentor. Randy had a reputation as a trouble maker, but he and Ted never got that. Randy told them what he needed from them and who they needed to listen to. He knew they would get some heat and that was a good thing. Cody says the group was pitched to be far bigger and Randy shot down that idea as he wanted to focus with Ted and Cody. MANU and I wonder who else they wanted in the group? Cody says that management tried to put Ted and Cody at odds to the point they started to dislike each other. Now he sees it as they wanted to see which of the two it would be. “Randy was on top. We weren’t on top, but we were with Randy.” It gave Cody a taste of the top and waiting for his time and when it would happen for him.

-Cody says there is no better education than working with Shawn Michaels. He says Shawn is one of his 3 favorite wrestlers of all time and calls him a Master. He mentions that Shawn and Hunter probably weren’t thrilled with working with him and Ted as they were just bad guys. He learned the difference between TV wrestling and live wrestling from them. One loop with those two and Taker was another level. With Shawn it was the difference of paint by numbers and a being a master.

-Cody feels Legacy could have gone another year, but it ended at WrestleMania XXVI. I was at that show! Cody says he and Ted were there to help Randy on his run as a babyface.

-Dashing Cody Rhodes: Cody is already laughing as they show the vignettes introducing Dashing Cody Rhodes. EYE BROW MAINTENANCE! Cody just cringes watching the vignette while Austin is laughing. Cody says this was written by one guy who introduced Cody to clear lip gloss which he didn’t know even existed. He loved the character, and it took a while to develop but everyone was patient. He is shocked that people remember it because it didn’t last long. They go back to acting classes and Cody says he took the classes before this character and used a lot what he learned. He always gives his students a book called “Challenge for An Actor.” It is helpful for wrestling as it helps find a reason for why things happen in wrestling. He credits his acting coach, Howard, for being as formative for his career as anyone else.

-His dream wasn’t to be the grooming tip guy, but it was the first time he was something other than Dusty’s kid. He ran with the idea and it was another coat of paint. Austin says those vignettes for anyone is super important. Cody had the idea of what happens if the fans like this as he didn’t need that reaction. He remembers telling Big Show he wanted to do more than HA HA and wanted to be gritty. Big Show told him “go get over,” and walked out. That night Show beat Cody in their match with a rubber chicken and the crowd loved it. It was another lesson for him.

-Next they discuss Cody breaking his nose in a match with Rey Mysterio. They throw to a promo where Cody is wearing his protective mask and telling the fans not to look at him. Cody again laughs at what he is watching. Cody says he put so much pressure on the Undashing side of Dashing Cody Rhodes. He feels what he did was some of the best work he ever did. He was moving further up the card and credits Michael Hayes and company for letting him go. He was given specific words like festering and albatross to use and layered them in. He talks about using a little of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho (I just watched that for the first time last night as HBO and Cinemax are giving us a free preview on DirecTV) and Phantom of The Opera (I popped for this as I am a massive Phantom fan since I first heard the musical in Jr High and read the book shortly after). They even flash a photo of Bale as Bateman which is cool! Cody says he got the mask from the same guy that made NBA player, Richard Hamilton’s mask. They cost $500 a piece and were a mold of his face. He wanted to keep going with the character, but it stopped. He won the IC Title with the character and that was a dream of his. It was just part of the process and at the time he trusted it and felt winning The IC Title was part of that process. They discuss the point of the character was that it was a mental problem and not a physical problem.

-WrestleMania XXVIII: I was there for this one as well! Taker/HHH was Match of The Night, but this one and Punk/Orton were in the running as well. They talk as they watch the match and Cody credits Rey for being someone that can slow you down so you aren’t rushing while doing all the crazy things you expect from him. They cover the spot where Cody holds Rey up for a superplex for good while. Cody lets us know that this was his first singles match on a PPV. Interesting fact as he tells us that Rey always told his opponent not to hold the middle rope down on the 6-1-9 and Cody never understood why until one night three people were in position and the gap was so big Rey just flew threw the ropes as he couldn’t bridge the gap as normal. Austin asks if Rey gives receipts and Cody says he does, but some are accidental and from his “knee brace from hell” that has sliced Taker. He had a house show with Rey and a head scissors with that brace had Cody thinking he was dying in the ring. Austin says he jacked up a lot of guys with his double knee brace. Cody gets the win with a well placed mask shot.

-The Intercontinental Championship: Austin calls it the worker’s belt and Cody agrees. He was enthused to be able to bring the classic design back. Cody’s big thing with the IC Title or any title not the World Title is to make it something more. He understands that it is seen as a step down, but it’s a chance to elevate the other title. Cody says it may have been false hope, but he felt The IC Title meant that he was next in line in the big picture of things. That obviously didn’t happen.

-We jump to The Rhodes Family vs. The Shield at Battleground. Dusty’s “American Dream” music is still amazing! Austin tells Cody he used to travel with Dustin when he was Goldust and they had so much fun with each other. Fantastic match that tore the house down. Ambrose eats a Dusty Elbow on the floor and I am sure he was ready to piss his pants with excitement. Cody hits what he calls the Greatest Cross-Rhodes ever and the crowd loses it as The Rhodes Brothers win the Tag Titles. It makes me smile seeing Dusty celebrating with his boys. Cody: “When it’s real, nothing is better.” He was coming off the IC Run and didn’t want to go back to being paired with Dusty and having a legacy, but looking back he is glad he has this moment as it was Dusty’s last moment in the sun. He notes that was the last Bionic Elbow ever and calls Ambrose, “Mox.”

-Cody wants to try Austin’s lager and they toast to each other again. I guess he needed another drink to get ready for what’s next as they discuss Stardust. He claims that the character was hard to start with. Originally it was supposed to be Silverdust and there was a prototype for the paint and suit. He says it was accepting challenges he didn’t want, but it wasn’t fulfilling even if he got the job done. It was too much of a departure of who he wanted to be. There were some great moments with the character and credits his appearance on Arrow and the stuff he did there. He knows now he wasn’t ready for the next step in WWE and that looking back Stardust was a good place to be. He wasn’t ready to be Cody Rhodes as he had lost Dusty at home and didn’t know how to process things.

-Austin jumps to the passing of Dusty. Cody says the big thing is they felt they had more time. He notes Dusty didn’t have stomach cancer. He says Dusty hated the idea of being an old man and to him what happened made sense. Cody didn’t process it and didn’t start until after he left WWE and went to Independents when he met with fans. He learned the most important thing was connecting with fans which he probably should have known. He mentions he gets emotional talking about Dusty and people think it is an act, but the act was the six years he acted stoic about Dusty. He felt that is what his family needed. He watched Dusty in the last 36 hours and prayed he would be back, but then prayed he would go because of how bad his quality of life got. He brings up that Brodie Lee told him that people will be bothered by how much it hurts. People think you should get over it after so much time, but it never goes away. He told that story to Brodie’s son and notes that never getting over it isn’t a bad thing. He brings up that when a wrestler dies fans even take ownership as everyone grieves. He mentions there is an A&E documentary coming out on Dusty. Austin credits Dusty for bringing him into WCW and putting The TV Title on him.

-Cody asks WWE for his release and his wife does the same. Cody says it was a very tough decision and notes all his heroes in wrestling made decisions other may not make. He was supposed to end his run as Stardust and become Cody again, but it wasn’t happening fast enough. Cody says he released himself and what he did was unprofessional as he didn’t sign his release papers. He calls the 10 year run beautiful and it just needed to end. He was embarrassed by Stardust and did appearances in full gimmick just so people didn’t see him as Cody. It was the sad clown situation and he opted to just go nuclear on his way out the door.

-Cody compares it to breaking out of a prison and Austin says it is like being institutionalized. He credits Kevin Owens for helping him find his footing with a schedule. Big Show hooked him up with an agent in LA and he is still his agent to this day. He was set up with someone that came up with the idea of Cody working for every Indy Company he could and work with their young, up and coming guys. They show the famous list and Cody notes he has worked with every single one other that Strong, who just happens to be in NXT. The list again for those who may have just walked out of a cave: Adam Cole, Dalton Castle, BOLA, Angle, Hero, “The Miracle,” Moose, Pat Buck, The Streamers Thing, Young Bucks, Trevor Lee, Shibata, Personal Ring Announcer, Roderick Strong. He doesn’t know if he can handle one backbreaker, but it’s available now. He knows the list had an anti-WWE sentiment and notes the rub goes both ways. He mentions he has been told he needs to make a new list for WWE and Austin wants to come back to that.

-Japan: Bullet Club: We gets still photos of Cody working in New Japan. Austin thinks the platinum blonde hair completed the package. Cody says he started to carve out The American Nightmare gimmick and New Japan wanted more as the fans knew of The American Dream. Gedo and Romero wanted Cody to join Bullet Club and Cody felt that was outside his zone. Ryder told him he had to do it and needed to get out of his comfort zone. That’s when he started learning and developing things with Kenny, Matt and Nick. Still photo of Cody having Omega in a Figure Four. This is wild! Cody says for Bullet Club purists he was the worst thing to happen to the group and that is what made it perfect. He credits Balor as the one that created Bullet Club. He got the sense that something was happening with the group from the fans as they would bring them in the ring after shows and that lead to what would happen next.

-All In: Cody says the discussion was that people were moving the goal posts. They show the tweet from Dave Meltzer as he responds to a fan question about ROH selling out an arena with 10,000 plus fans with “not any time soon.” Cody sees this and responds with “I’ll take that bet Dave. I already gave them their biggest buyrate…put The Bucks and I on the card and 3 months to promote.” Again, this is wild seeing this! Cody knew they could do this in a heartbeat. They sold over 11,000 tickets in 23 minutes and that was his first night as an executive. Cody won the NWA Title from Aldis that night. We get stills from the All In show which again is crazy seeing on here.

-Cody says that crowd was one of the loudest he has ever heard. He notes he produced the Battle Royal and All In was legit as they paid for as much as they could on the show. Cody thought they would be doing everything like All In every night. This show gave people an idea that there could be an alternative. He notes Conrad jumped in with Starrcast and it became like Woodstock. All In changed everything for him.

-Cody tells the story of wrestling Okada in Long Beach and it was noted that Austin was at the show. Cody calls Austin one of the goats and Mt Rushmore. They had a conversation about the match and everyone realized Austin was there and as they got close Austin walked off in the dark. Cody says it looked like The Batman disappearing.

-AEW: Yep, there is AEW photos with the logo on the turnbuckles and TBS logo. What is this world? Austin asks if it was difficult to go from a boy to a boss. Cody says it is still a difficult transition as he is no longer EVP, but catching up with them he will always be seen as office. He doesn’t think he can turn the clock back on the three year of being EVP. He was all hands on and notes Tony was as well. Cody went to every meeting and was trying to teach people how to sell the product. He mentions that now it doesn’t matter much as he is no longer an EVP. He thinks it would have been a great job for him at 45, but realized not when he was 35. There is no heat and he tried all he could to give everything. He feels he was overly generous in his run and says Dusty would have told him that. Arn did tell him, “get some for you.”

-Austin enjoys hearing Cody say that he enjoys violence in the ring. Austin asks his highlight as far as matches and Cody says he peaked early with the match against Dustin. He says that is the match that made AEW and he isn’t bragging because the man himself has told him that. He just wanted to have a singles match with his brother and the story was easy as he wanted to get over the hump against his older brother and his legacy. Austin says the beauty of the match was the simplicity of it. It was a basic simple pro-wrestling match between two brothers. To Austin it was a match that was 33 years in the making and he loves the match.

-Back to being EVP and Austin asks if Cody ever felt he was on a run-away train while also losing sight of his personal goals. Cody says he did everything he could diplomatic as he saw what happened to Dusty. He realizes now that was the wrong concept as Dusty was Champion because he was over and not the booker. There is a synergy between the two sure but it wasn’t the main reason. He takes the blame or credit for the decision to keep himself away from the World Title as it wasn’t something The Bucks, Kenny, or Tony pushed for or decided. He needed someone in his life to tell him if he was doing something right and the closest he had was Arn, but he didn’t want to bother him with questions like that. Cody got to the point where doing the honors became doing the JOB. He says Arn would chew him out even though he was technically his boss and admits he should have listened to Arn more when he was in AEW.

-The bottom line on AEW is that it was Cody’s baby and it doesn’t need him anymore. He then admits that maybe it did need him, but he didn’t want to be a gatekeeper wrestler. He didn’t want to feed the meme where every new person first wrestlers Cody and then does Jericho’s podcast. The simple terms is he grew up in the business wanting to be WWE Champion as it is the one that got away. He wants to round everything totally out as he wants to win the Title that got away from Dusty. He stares at the Winged Eagle Austin has hanging and just says what he wants is right there. He notes that it took Matt, Nick, Cody, Kenny and Tony to create AEW and that is the origin story.

-WWE Return: The first person Cody spoke to was Bruce Prichard and it happened much later than people thought. He says Bruce thought Cody was working a story and didn’t believe it at first.

-The first conversation with Vince should have been one they had in 2015 and Cody admits that was on him. The conversation was about who they are as human beings before getting to anything business related.

-Austin says some things were meant to happen as Cody was TNT Champion with an expired contract and WrestleMania was months away. Cody brings up that The Bucks joke he is an atheist, but he knows some high power somewhere is fixing things up there as his last Mania was in Dallas and he returns to the same stadium against one of Dusty’s kids who got to the mountain top that he never did. “There is no way you can write a better story.”

-WrestleMania Backlash: Austin feels Cody is doing his finest work. Cody says that he is still a wrestler that loves violence and wants to show that wins and losses matter. He heard for years they don’t, but has seen that they definitely do.

-Austin asks Cody about his tweet that pro-wrestling is a love story. Cody says that with a real love story that is a lot of highs and lows. He loves what they do and why he got into the business. He loves the fans that love him and the ones that don’t love him.

-Does Cody Rhodes know who he is on a professional level? Cody says he learned who he was when he came up that elevator at WrestleMania. He felt he was truly in command of all he had to offer. There are a bunch of people that can help, but for the first time he is going off his gut. It will fail or succeed based off of that.

-Austin brings up that he questioned when Cody left WWE and betting on himself paid off. He is proud of him, for whatever that means, and he knows Dusty is proud of him. Cody says of course it means something to him and credits Austin as the biggest F’N box office draw of all time.

-Austin wraps things up as we never touch back on Cody making a new list for WWE.

-This was amazing and two hours that completely flew by. Credit to WWE for again touching on subjects you wouldn’t get on their main TV and while the ones watching this already know of AEW, it’s still startling to see and hear it discussed so freely. Cody was great here as he has no problem just talking about pro-wrestling and they easily could have done another hour without any trouble. Definitely check this one out. Thanks for reading!